Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[Nyce_1]

From what I was reading about ACL tears nowadays it's anywhere from 6-12 months but I always thought it was 9 months for NBA players, he should be good to go close to start of season, or even November.

Yeah I mean it all depends on the player.

Al Jefferson tore his Feb 2009 and was back October 2009. 8 months.
David West tore his March 2011 and was back December 2011. 9 months.
Kendrick Perkins tore his June 2010 and was back January 2011. 6 months.
Ricky Rubio tore his March 2012 and was back December 2012. 9 months
Derrick Rose tore his April 2012 and missed the entire next season. Didn't come back until October 2013. 18 months.
Kristaps Porzingis tore his February 2018 and missed the entire next season. Didn't come back until October 2019. 20 months.

Good list. I'll use players of the same/similar position/style of play as reference. I wasn't expecting him back until all-star break, but if that could be moved up a couple of months, that'll be really good. Jeff never puts a time table on injuries but 9 months is right at the start of the season (if league starts on time, as they hope to). To note, i'm not counting on the time to mentally get back to a comfortable playing level but having him back earlier in the next season would be huge.

[BCS]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

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[JBSouthpaw]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

You loose the whole team if the HC isn't trying to win. And bad habits start forming.
Because that means performance doesn't matter.
I felt that is what hurt Payton and Victor when they were here.

[MagicTownBaller]

How did I forget Tyrone Corbin is our assistant? I would love for us to hire him on as a coach just to see how he'd do.

[BCS]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

You loose the whole team if the HC isn't trying to win. And bad habits start forming.
Because that means performance doesn't matter.
I felt that is what hurt Payton and Victor when they were here.

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

[RookieStar]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

You loose the whole team if the HC isn't trying to win. And bad habits start forming.
Because that means performance doesn't matter.
I felt that is what hurt Payton and Victor when they were here.

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

What if the "right"players think he can't do wrong because he is part of the future of the franchise and thus won't bother to play the right way?

As pepe said, ( and whether you agree with his theory or not although it makes sense) the reason Payton never really developed is because he felt he was entitled to the starting PG spot. Even if he did wrong he saw the bench and knew that the coach won't ever put someone before him in the SL or the FO get any other decent PG to replace him. So yeah, he continued to do or not improve much because he knew even if he committed 10 TO in a row he will still be the starting PG.

Make the players like RJ ( who, even though I like him, thought he did a lot of dumb mistakes ) feel accountable and scared that he should develop and improve cuz otherwise, scrubs like Randle is gonna steal his PT.

[BCS]

You loose the whole team if the HC isn't trying to win. And bad habits start forming.
Because that means performance doesn't matter.
I felt that is what hurt Payton and Victor when they were here.

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

What if the "right"players think he can't do wrong because he is part of the future of the franchise and thus won't bother to play the right way?

As pepe said, ( and whether you agree with his theory or not although it makes sense) the reason Payton never really developed is because he felt he was entitled to the starting PG spot. Even if he did wrong he saw the bench and knew that the coach won't ever put someone before him in the SL or the FO get any other decent PG to replace him. So yeah, he continued to do or not improve much because he knew even if he committed 10 TO in a row he will still be the starting PG.

Make the players like RJ ( who, even though I like him, thought he did a lot of dumb mistakes ) feel accountable and scared that he should develop and improve cuz otherwise, scrubs like Randle is gonna steal his PT.

Those are players we do not want and failed projects. A player has to have the desire to be better and improve, you either have it or you don't, playing time just gives you the experience to learn from mistakes and improve. If the player is not showing improvements and continuously committing the same mistakes you make him accountable of course.

Payton's biggest issue was that he could not improve his shot and expand that part of his game. Without that he can't get to the next level, similar to Fultz right now, there is more hope for Fultz because at least he was a good shooter before the injury.

And btw, I don't consider RJ necessarily part of the future for the franchise, that is why I want to see more of him and see how he handles mistakes and how he improves as the season progresses.

[JBSouthpaw]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

You loose the whole team if the HC isn't trying to win. And bad habits start forming.
Because that means performance doesn't matter.
I felt that is what hurt Payton and Victor when they were here.

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

Big reason Mo didn't get 20 min, Carter outplayed him.
I think RJ will be over 20mpg shortly, I think he proved he's got it down enough.
Can't really blame Cliff for not rushing a 20 y.o. out for 20 min just after joining the team.
Who's going to play instead of Ennis? It's either him or Porter. We don't have a young SF to get those minutes (healthy).

[RookieStar]

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

What if the "right"players think he can't do wrong because he is part of the future of the franchise and thus won't bother to play the right way?

As pepe said, ( and whether you agree with his theory or not although it makes sense) the reason Payton never really developed is because he felt he was entitled to the starting PG spot. Even if he did wrong he saw the bench and knew that the coach won't ever put someone before him in the SL or the FO get any other decent PG to replace him. So yeah, he continued to do or not improve much because he knew even if he committed 10 TO in a row he will still be the starting PG.

Make the players like RJ ( who, even though I like him, thought he did a lot of dumb mistakes ) feel accountable and scared that he should develop and improve cuz otherwise, scrubs like Randle is gonna steal his PT.

Those are players we do not want and failed projects. A player has to have the desire to be better and improve, you either have it or you don't, playing time just gives you the experience to learn from mistakes and improve. If the player is not showing improvements and continuously committing the same mistakes you make him accountable of course.

Payton's biggest issue was that he could not improve his shot and expand that part of his game. Without that he can't get to the next level, similar to Fultz right now, there is more hope for Fultz because at least he was a good shooter before the injury.

And btw, I don't consider RJ necessarily part of the future for the franchise, that is why I want to see more of him and see how he handles mistakes and how he improves as the season progresses.

I def agree with PAyton's biggest issue is his shot. Especially his 3pt shot. So why didn't he improve on it? Look at Fultz as you said. He had a hitch in his shot in PHI but here with us, it's slowly being eased out off. Look at Vuc. He was a midrange jumper but he slowly expanded it to 3pt land starting last season.

It was all on Elf on why he didn't want to improve on himself. It could be a lot of reason. Im just using pepe's reasoning because it makes a lot of sense. I don't care if its the real reason or not. I just want our young guys to develop correctly and not feel entitled that no matter what ish they do, they won't get "penalized" for it.

Kind of like what Vic said (was it him?) young guys in our team is all about ME ME ME getting their stats ( Im just paraphrasing what he said ) I don't want that to happen to Cole, Okeke WCJ Mo and RJ right now. Let them get yanked to the bench if they do stupid ish.

[BCS]

You loose the whole team if the HC isn't trying to win. And bad habits start forming.
Because that means performance doesn't matter.
I felt that is what hurt Payton and Victor when they were here.

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

Big reason Mo didn't get 20 min, Carter outplayed him.
I think RJ will be over 20mpg shortly, I think he proved he's got it down enough.
Can't really blame Cliff for not rushing a 20 y.o. out for 20 min just after joining the team.
Who's going to play instead of Ennis? It's either him or Porter. We don't have a young SF to get those minutes (healthy).

Mo does not get 20 mins because it's just not in the plans. I think the C rotation needs to be Carter and Mo, Mo playing the beginning 6 mins of qtrs and Carter finishing them, Carter is better to close out games because he is a more complete player. That easily puts Mo above 20 mins a game and keeps him better rested, Mo struggles a bit after 6 consecutive minutes, stamina still not there.
It will be hard for RJ to even get playing time if Harris and Cole do come back regrettably so if he is not getting 20 now it will be that much harder soon.
You could've had Ross or Bacon playing some SF in the game and had Hampton play some SG yesterday instead of just exclusively backup PG.

[BCS]

What if the "right"players think he can't do wrong because he is part of the future of the franchise and thus won't bother to play the right way?

As pepe said, ( and whether you agree with his theory or not although it makes sense) the reason Payton never really developed is because he felt he was entitled to the starting PG spot. Even if he did wrong he saw the bench and knew that the coach won't ever put someone before him in the SL or the FO get any other decent PG to replace him. So yeah, he continued to do or not improve much because he knew even if he committed 10 TO in a row he will still be the starting PG.

Make the players like RJ ( who, even though I like him, thought he did a lot of dumb mistakes ) feel accountable and scared that he should develop and improve cuz otherwise, scrubs like Randle is gonna steal his PT.

Those are players we do not want and failed projects. A player has to have the desire to be better and improve, you either have it or you don't, playing time just gives you the experience to learn from mistakes and improve. If the player is not showing improvements and continuously committing the same mistakes you make him accountable of course.

Payton's biggest issue was that he could not improve his shot and expand that part of his game. Without that he can't get to the next level, similar to Fultz right now, there is more hope for Fultz because at least he was a good shooter before the injury.

And btw, I don't consider RJ necessarily part of the future for the franchise, that is why I want to see more of him and see how he handles mistakes and how he improves as the season progresses.

I def agree with PAyton's biggest issue is his shot. Especially his 3pt shot. So why didn't he improve on it? Look at Fultz as you said. He had a hitch in his shot in PHI but here with us, it's slowly being eased out off. Look at Vuc. He was a midrange jumper but he slowly expanded it to 3pt land starting last season.

It was all on Elf on why he didn't want to improve on himself. It could be a lot of reason. Im just using pepe's reasoning because it makes a lot of sense. I don't care if its the real reason or not. I just want our young guys to develop correctly and not feel entitled that no matter what ish they do, they won't get "penalized" for it.

Kind of like what Vic said (was it him?) young guys in our team is all about ME ME ME getting their stats ( Im just paraphrasing what he said ) I don't want that to happen to Cole, Okeke WCJ Mo and RJ right now. Let them get yanked to the bench if they do stupid ish.

I think we are in agreement. I want them to be held accountable. If they are making mistakes and showing no signs of learning from them, then send the message as long as you give them the opportunity to learn from them and improve. You can't just yank them the 1st sign of a mistake, I had a coach like that and it was the worst, did not take me long to quit the team, lol, it is no fun and you can't even get in a rhythm.

I personally think Elf didn't improve because it is just not in him though. He is what he is.

[RookieStar]

Well if you think about it, Cliff still gave him increasing minutes despite the mistakes he did 2 games ago.. and despite the mistakes he did last game, I still expect him to get increasing minutes even by a little.

Sure its nice to say "throw him into the grinder" and see what he is made of BUT that doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Remember, unlike WCJ, RJ is a rookie who just got traded into a new environment/coaching plays and etc. It also isnt like he was averaging 20-25mins before in DEN. So yeah, easing him slowly into the rotation is probably what's best for him. I mean look at his fellow rookie Okeke. We didn't throw him 25 mins a game right away right?

[MagicTownBaller]

I can't wait for Cole to come back, not because I like him, but because at least it's a young guy with potential playing. I don't see why this can't be the lineup,

PG: Cole/Hampton
SG: Harris/Ross
SF: Porter/Ennis
PF: Okeke/Birch
C: Carter/Bamba

Next year, without our picks

PG: Fultz/Cole
SG: Harris/Hampton
SF: Isaac/Ross
PF: Okeke/Porter?
C: WCJ/Bamba

[BCS]

Well if you think about it, Cliff still gave him increasing minutes despite the mistakes he did 2 games ago.. and despite the mistakes he did last game, I still expect him to get increasing minutes even by a little.

Sure its nice to say "throw him into the grinder" and see what he is made of BUT that doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Remember, unlike WCJ, RJ is a rookie who just got traded into a new environment/coaching plays and etc. It also isnt like he was averaging 20-25mins before in DEN. So yeah, easing him slowly into the rotation is probably what's best for him. I mean look at his fellow rookie Okeke. We didn't throw him 25 mins a game right away right?

Okeke was coming off an injury so they were definitely going to ease him in.

My only concern with RJ is once Harris and Cole, come back, is he even going to get any minutes. I see his playing time being cut or nonexistent, I hope Cliff proves me wrong but that is what I think will happen.

[tiderulz]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

you get that all losses go on a coaches record right? of course he isnt going to try and lose. and most players are playing hard, they arent going to try and lose either

[Nyce_1]

I don't mind him trying to win and enforcing playing the right way, but he needs to do it with the right players. Something he is just not going to be willing to do. There is no reason Ennis should be playing over 20 mins. No reason Bamba or Hampton should not be getting over 20 mins, etc...

Big reason Mo didn't get 20 min, Carter outplayed him.
I think RJ will be over 20mpg shortly, I think he proved he's got it down enough.
Can't really blame Cliff for not rushing a 20 y.o. out for 20 min just after joining the team.
Who's going to play instead of Ennis? It's either him or Porter. We don't have a young SF to get those minutes (healthy).

Mo does not get 20 mins because it's just not in the plans. I think the C rotation needs to be Carter and Mo, Mo playing the beginning 6 mins of qtrs and Carter finishing them, Carter is better to close out games because he is a more complete player. That easily puts Mo above 20 mins a game and keeps him better rested, Mo struggles a bit after 6 consecutive minutes, stamina still not there.
It will be hard for RJ to even get playing time if Harris and Cole do come back regrettably so if he is not getting 20 now it will be that much harder soon.
You could've had Ross or Bacon playing some SF in the game and had Hampton play some SG yesterday instead of just exclusively backup PG.

then who would've been the backup PG last night?

[RookieStar]

Well if you think about it, Cliff still gave him increasing minutes despite the mistakes he did 2 games ago.. and despite the mistakes he did last game, I still expect him to get increasing minutes even by a little.

Sure its nice to say "throw him into the grinder" and see what he is made of BUT that doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Remember, unlike WCJ, RJ is a rookie who just got traded into a new environment/coaching plays and etc. It also isnt like he was averaging 20-25mins before in DEN. So yeah, easing him slowly into the rotation is probably what's best for him. I mean look at his fellow rookie Okeke. We didn't throw him 25 mins a game right away right?

Okeke was coming off an injury so they were definitely going to ease him in.

My only concern with RJ is once Harris and Cole, come back, is he even going to get any minutes. I see his playing time being cut or nonexistent, I hope Cliff proves me wrong but that is what I think will happen.

My hope is Bacon will be eased out and Ross/MCW will continue to have "days off" so RJ can slide into the G/SG role

[KillMonger]

Man next season we have to change the way we play....i'm looking at RJ and he's flying down the court and no can catch him....with the athletes we have we can't afford to be playing as slow as we seem to play

[Nyce_1]

Man next season we have to change the way we play....i'm looking at RJ and he's flying down the court and no can catch him....with the athletes we have we can't afford to be playing as slow as we seem to play

Changing how we play is the main thing I'm most excited about after the trades. We no longer have to be forced to play through a big. We can let our guards dictate things and become more modern.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Can we force a leave of absence on Cliff for the rest of the year? Have Tyrone Corbin be the interim coach.

Because he just does not get it or is trying to force the Magic to get rid of him and get paid.

This is the reason why I wanted most of the remaining vets gone as well (Ross and Ennis especially). Closing games with Randle....what a joke.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

Doesnt get what? Coaches and players aren’t going to try to lose games....