The Anthony Black Thread

[basketballRob]

I have a question that I'm sure has been answered, so I apologize in advance. Is it legal in the NBA for Black to swat the defenders hand away like that? Or is it only hand to body contact they look at?

Just curious, not anxious about it or anything.

Bit tricky. Your off ball hand can act as shield of ball and space, but can't be used in creation space itselef. You don't have right to grab, hold nor push opposing player's reaching hand to create space, but if he exstends his hand and it goes below you, you have right to "defend" yourself by blocking.
However any "agressive" elbow swinging, high hand protection, any blatant defender hand-catching and shoving is foul. And 99% of hand-slapping is foul.

But it all depends who officites the games. NBA guards then to shove and push a lot ,especially elite shooters like Curry , Harden , LIllard.

Defenders like to put their hands on the offensive player to control their movement. It should be a foul, but if the ref doesn't call it, I like it when an offensive slaps their hands off. If you let the defensive player get away with it, he is punking you.

As soon as the offensive player moves and you have your hands on him, it's a foul. That's been the whole revolution of basketball the last decade. No more hand checking. You have to use your forearm.



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[drsd]

I have a question that I'm sure has been answered, so I apologize in advance. Is it legal in the NBA for Black to swat the defenders hand away like that? Or is it only hand to body contact they look at?

Just curious, not anxious about it or anything.

Bit tricky. Your off ball hand can act as shield of ball and space, but can't be used in creation space itselef. You don't have right to grab, hold nor push opposing player's reaching hand to create space, but if he exstends his hand and it goes below you, you have right to "defend" yourself by blocking.
However any "agressive" elbow swinging, high hand protection, any blatant defender hand-catching and shoving is foul. And 99% of hand-slapping is foul.

But it all depends who officites the games. NBA guards then to shove and push a lot ,especially elite shooters like Curry , Harden , LIllard.

Defenders like to put their hands on the offensive player to control their movement. It should be a foul, but if the ref doesn't call it, I like it when an offensive slaps their hands off. If you let the defensive player get away with it, he is punking you.

As soon as the offensive player moves and you have your hands on him, it's a foul. That's been the whole revolution of basketball the last decade. No more hand checking. You have to use your forearm.

It's not just that Jordan would have 2-3 more three-pointers today and would have a 2-3% increase on his 2-pt FG%, Jordan would easily average more than 15 FTA per game. I am not sure Jordan would average 50 points per game in today's NBA, but the 43 ppg seems reasonable.

Watch on YouTube

[Skybox]

Good for him to get his pocket picked a few times and get used to NBA speed and size...he looks like a gamer too. You just don't know with all the smiley interviews. As always, I love the football pedigree for welcoming contact.

[pepe1991]

I have a question that I'm sure has been answered, so I apologize in advance. Is it legal in the NBA for Black to swat the defenders hand away like that? Or is it only hand to body contact they look at?

Just curious, not anxious about it or anything.

Bit tricky. Your off ball hand can act as shield of ball and space, but can't be used in creation space itselef. You don't have right to grab, hold nor push opposing player's reaching hand to create space, but if he exstends his hand and it goes below you, you have right to "defend" yourself by blocking.
However any "agressive" elbow swinging, high hand protection, any blatant defender hand-catching and shoving is foul. And 99% of hand-slapping is foul.

But it all depends who officites the games. NBA guards then to shove and push a lot ,especially elite shooters like Curry , Harden , LIllard.

Defenders like to put their hands on the offensive player to control their movement. It should be a foul, but if the ref doesn't call it, I like it when an offensive slaps their hands off. If you let the defensive player get away with it, he is punking you.

As soon as the offensive player moves and you have your hands on him, it's a foul. That's been the whole revolution of basketball the last decade. No more hand checking. You have to use your forearm.



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Officiating is already lobsided on side on offense, not allowing single hand on defender at any time would turn game into 70 FTA slugfest.

As soon as the offensive player moves and you have your hands on him, it's a foul.

This is impossible in practice, players would have 6 fouls in 8 min of game if game is called like that

[Knightro]

Black had quite a few of those UCLA Lonzo Ball type outlet passes in transition that led to open looks.

That level of unselfishness on the break will certainly inspire guys to keep running hard to fill lanes.

[jezzerinho]

There’s a very large section of Magic fans who haven’t quite yet come to terms with the reality that it’s far more likely that Anthony Black is Markelle Fultz’s replacement than he is his running mate.

I revel in the cognitive dissonance fans are facing as they try to grasp the implications of drafting Black. It shouldn't bring me such joy but alas

It’s funny that between the Fultz thread and the general thread people are excited about him coming into a contract year and that he’s going to “have a crazy year”. Yeah, no ****. It’s his contract year and we just drafted his replacement. Like this guy isn’t going to do everything necessary to show up and justify the oversized contract he’s about to get despite not earning the previous one he was handed for about 1.5 seasons of results.

Once again, the FO has put themselves in this position by drafting a guy with a top lotto pick that has to play behind someone in a contract year needing to prove themselves. The justification is already there. You can see it a mile away.

Good luck to AB. Worst situation possible for him.

AB wasnt too ecstatic about being picked by the Magic for that reason. But he looks like a competitor.

[VFX]

I revel in the cognitive dissonance fans are facing as they try to grasp the implications of drafting Black. It shouldn't bring me such joy but alas

It’s funny that between the Fultz thread and the general thread people are excited about him coming into a contract year and that he’s going to “have a crazy year”. Yeah, no ****. It’s his contract year and we just drafted his replacement. Like this guy isn’t going to do everything necessary to show up and justify the oversized contract he’s about to get despite not earning the previous one he was handed for about 1.5 seasons of results.

Once again, the FO has put themselves in this position by drafting a guy with a top lotto pick that has to play behind someone in a contract year needing to prove themselves. The justification is already there. You can see it a mile away.

Good luck to AB. Worst situation possible for him.

AB wasnt too ecstatic about being picked by the Magic for that reason. But he looks like a competitor.

I believe AB should be the future point guard in this jumbo lineup this FO is piecing together at each position.

It’s just extremely difficult for a guy to earn that position being 6 seasons of development behind a guy that’s going to have to prove himself in a contract year. Rookies are rarely displaying their projected upsides.

It’s funny that the arguments are about “what if we make the playoffs with Fultz at the helm?” Like nobody is capable of projecting how contracts and cap space matters 3 seasons from now.

Yeah, I don’t really care about next season. I care about who’s on the team when Franz and Paolo are maxed and Orlando has limited flexibility for the correct role players. You know… when this decade of roster construction actually matters for once.

[GatorbaitDD]

Wasn’t a fan at draft but he looked good last night. I like what I see. Very patient player.

[Residual-Heat]

Solid debut for AB. I like his leadership out there. He's going to turn the ball over a lot, and maybe its just me, but i am not sure he will be able to guard point guards full time at the NBA level TBH. He's still capable of being a great defender, but not sure he's at his best at PG. I really hope Suggs continues to improve that 3pt shot.

We're adding another 6'7 ball handler who can get to the rim and finish to two 6'10 ball handlers who can do the same in Paolo and Franz. Theyre all similar in that respect but their games are very different. That trio will be very interesting to watch.

[eyriq]

There’s a very large section of Magic fans who haven’t quite yet come to terms with the reality that it’s far more likely that Anthony Black is Markelle Fultz’s replacement than he is his running mate.

I revel in the cognitive dissonance fans are facing as they try to grasp the implications of drafting Black. It shouldn't bring me such joy but alas

It’s funny that between the Fultz thread and the general thread people are excited about him coming into a contract year and that he’s going to “have a crazy year”. Yeah, no ****. It’s his contract year and we just drafted his replacement. Like this guy isn’t going to do everything necessary to show up and justify the oversized contract he’s about to get despite not earning the previous one he was handed for about 1.5 seasons of results.

Once again, the FO has put themselves in this position by drafting a guy with a top lotto pick that has to play behind someone in a contract year needing to prove themselves. The justification is already there. You can see it a mile away.

Good luck to AB. Worst situation possible for him.

Fultz is in a contract year, but also in a year where he is by his own admission 100% healthy. Given his initial promise and potential out of college it is going to be difficult to disentangle health effects and contract year effects. Because of the potential health effects and initial promise and potential it is worth gathering another season's worth of data on Fultz.

I actually think that Black competing against and playing with Fultz will help his development. There is a non-negligible probability that Black outplays Fultz outright.

The most obvious implication though is that Fultz is not considered the PG of the future. Which is what I think people are struggling to internalize.

[jonbob17]

I revel in the cognitive dissonance fans are facing as they try to grasp the implications of drafting Black. It shouldn't bring me such joy but alas

It’s funny that between the Fultz thread and the general thread people are excited about him coming into a contract year and that he’s going to “have a crazy year”. Yeah, no ****. It’s his contract year and we just drafted his replacement. Like this guy isn’t going to do everything necessary to show up and justify the oversized contract he’s about to get despite not earning the previous one he was handed for about 1.5 seasons of results.

Once again, the FO has put themselves in this position by drafting a guy with a top lotto pick that has to play behind someone in a contract year needing to prove themselves. The justification is already there. You can see it a mile away.

Good luck to AB. Worst situation possible for him.

Fultz is in a contract year, but also in a year where he is by his own admission 100% healthy. Given his initial promise and potential out of college it is going to be difficult to disentangle health effects and contract year effects. Because of the potential health effects and initial promise and potential it is worth gathering another season's worth of data on Fultz.

I actually think that Black competing against and playing with Fultz will help his development. There is a non-negligible probability that Black outplays Fultz outright.

The most obvious implication though is that Fultz is not considered the PG of the future. Which is what I think people are struggling to internalize.

Why do people on this board think that Magic fans are so tied to Fultz? I can't imagine any Magic fans think that we drafted Black as a backup or playing off ball. The latter completely minimizes his value.

I think what Fultz fans on this board see in Fultz is that he is a perfectly capable lead guard...nothing more...and that is fine. He'd be running the 2nd unit on the majority of teams. If the Magic want to compete for titles we are going to aim higher...

There's probably a slight chance Fultz develops into that player, but it's probably a tiny fraction at this point. I guess NBA players do see a bit of a bump in contract years, but we'll see what happens with Fultz, and even then it will be hard to know whether it was contract year motivation..or just natural progress from a guy with 190 nba games under his belt.

Its possible, maybe probable, the Magic give Fultz another contract...why? because teams don't really let decent players get to free agency anymore, and Fultz if nothing else is decent...teams see these contracts as valuable commodities rather than let guys leave for nothing. Even if the Magic sign Fultz to an extension, he in all likelihood just a temporary part of the plan.

[Knightro]

Why do people on this board think that Magic fans are so tied to Fultz? I can't imagine any Magic fans think that we drafted Black as a backup or playing off ball. The latter completely minimizes his value.

More people are than are not IMO.

[basketballRob]

Solid debut for AB. I like his leadership out there. He's going to turn the ball over a lot, and maybe its just me, but i am not sure he will be able to guard point guards full time at the NBA level TBH. He's still capable of being a great defender, but not sure he's at his best at PG. I really hope Suggs continues to improve that 3pt shot.

We're adding another 6'7 ball handler who can get to the rim and finish to two 6'10 ball handlers who can do the same in Paolo and Franz. Theyre all similar in that respect but their games are very different. That trio will be very interesting to watch.

He's always been able to guard PGs. I've seen a few people say that he was the top perimeter defender in the draft. Spinella called him the best perimeter defender in several years.

It took a long time for people to realize Franz wasn't a PF. I think it's natural to think a player plays a certain position based on his size.

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[Skybox]

Wasn’t a fan at draft but he looked good last night. I like what I see. Very patient player.

I think that's a really good take...It's what I see in SGA that makes him so special...he just looks like he's comfortable in uncomfortable spots.

Kind of BJJ principle that can be applied to life..."being comfortable in uncomfortable situations", not losing your composure or adapting or being rushed (or slowed down). Gretzky was also renowned for it.

[Residual-Heat]

Solid debut for AB. I like his leadership out there. He's going to turn the ball over a lot, and maybe its just me, but i am not sure he will be able to guard point guards full time at the NBA level TBH. He's still capable of being a great defender, but not sure he's at his best at PG. I really hope Suggs continues to improve that 3pt shot.

We're adding another 6'7 ball handler who can get to the rim and finish to two 6'10 ball handlers who can do the same in Paolo and Franz. Theyre all similar in that respect but their games are very different. That trio will be very interesting to watch.

He's always been able to guard PGs. I've seen a few people say that he was the top perimeter defender in the draft. Spinella called him the best perimeter defender in several years.

It took a long time for people to realize Franz wasn't a PF. I think it's natural to think a player plays a certain position based on his size.

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we shall see if he is capable of doing that at the NBA level. Im not sure if he has the quickness to keep up, but i could be wrong. I do think he'll be able to switch and hold his own against some PFs though, he is bigger and stronger than I thought.

[VFX]

Its possible, maybe probable, the Magic give Fultz another contract...why? because teams don't really let decent players get to free agency anymore, and Fultz if nothing else is decent...teams see these contracts as valuable commodities rather than let guys leave for nothing. Even if the Magic sign Fultz to an extension, he in all likelihood just a temporary part of the plan.

Many people go back and forth here on this topic. This is the most obvious takeaway from the situation.

What I have learned is that this FO simply does not operate in terms of finding maximum value on their assets. They just don't. The window for moving Fultz was the beginning to the middle of this past season. They will field negligible value for him now as an expiring contract and if/when he is extended with a larger salary his value will again decrease.

It's the same reason Poole is not a prized asset at face value despite what he does on the court. The monetary value outweighs the performance/ceiling at some juncture. Fultz as a commodity is more valuable to retain now because the window has passed. The only other option is if he is in a larger move, which I doubt happens.

Why is this important information in an Anthony Black thread? Because Black's value is dependent on what his ceiling is and what he displays on the court. If he's playing behind Fultz and Cole, then someone is going to lose minutes and value between the 3. I expect them to retain Fultz and diminish Black's minutes between him and Cole for the reasons you stated. They will develop Black as well as attempt to start Fultz in a playoff push. The problem is that one will come at a sacrifice regardless of what people want to tell themselves. It's just poor asset management and is what most of us expected.

"We couldn't find good value on our assets" will be something we probably hear in regards to one of the two guards that will be moved. This after one of them has their minutes cut in half from attempting to develop Black and their contracts further extended past this particular season.

[basketballRob]

I believe Black is the youngest player we've drafted since Dwight.

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[zaymon]

We dont have to trade every player at peak value. Its also hard to tell when is the peak value.
We traded Vucevic at peak value we know that in retrospect. He was never worth more before or after. Its also hard to maximize every asset at the same time. We waited with AG and Lowry hacked him in the bubble, then he sprained his ankle next season.
Fultz had very little value since we traded for him. Trying to maximize his value is meaningless, instead of one second rounder we will get second rounder and cash considerations ?
We can best use him to create an obstacle for Black . Rookie will need to try hard to get minutes, he will learn from veteran and then next season Fultz is gone. That makes a lot of sense. Increasing Fultz or even Cole value gives minimal benefit becouse they are both flawed and wont start on any good team. We are not playing the stock market we are building a basketball team.

[RookieStar]

A little worried about how Black will fit in with Paolo and Franz, all guys who like to have the ball in their hands.

Black doesn't need the ball in his hands at all. I'm pretty sure he quickly passed it every time he crossed half court. That's why they call him a connector because he gets the ball moving. He's a perfect complimentary guard for star forwards.



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Also, has everyone here forgotten what Franz bread and butter used to be? It was the timely CUT to be at the right place and right time. So yeah, having Black make those pinpoint passes is beneficial for Franz.

[Knightro]

I believe Black is the youngest player we've drafted since Dwight.

Aaron Gordon was younger, but Black is the 2nd youngest.

Gordon was actually still 18 when he was drafted and played his entire rookie season at age 19.