Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[Knightro]

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[cedric76]

That would be quite the hometown discount. Simons currently makes an average of 25 million a year ($27,678,571 this upcoming season) in his current deal. With inflation, many people are batting around whether it will take him over the 30 million a year number on his next deal. Even if he loves the Magic, I can't imagine him playing for substantially less than even his past contract.

Again, as with all these scenarios I hope I'm wrong. I love Suggs. It's just hard to make the money work with our current three here and an avoidance of the NBA aprons. Something seems like it has to give.

Inflation plus the cap rising in theory should mean contracts go up. But I do wonder if there could be some correction by teams in avoiding overpaying players, especially the offense only combo type due to the new CBA and due to those guys lesser value in the postseason. We'll see I guess, he will want to make more than his previous, though that was an overpay so I don't know if it should be relevant in discussions. I would not love 30 million for Simons or 25 for Sexton. Weltman signing another contract that is instantly negative value would not be ideal IMO.

Players have zero leverage if teams don't have cap room, with new CBA top players will get big contracts (30% of cap room), each teams will have 2 max players so GM will have to be clever with the contracts they dish out to the 13 others players.
Mid players like Simons and sexton will get squeezed

[Magic_Johnny12]

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Vegas just taking advantage of the hype, nothing more.

We have been favorites for almost every single scoring guard reportedly available.

[Idiosyncratic]

I personally would make the Suggs/Garland swap, even if we had to add a bit, but I am not convinced that the Cavs would.

How many chances are we going to get to get a PG that could transform the offense? He has his question marks but he averaged 9 assists a game the season before Mitchell got there. 40% from 3 on volume. I don't think there are many swings to take that make more sense than that.

[pepe1991]

That would be quite the hometown discount. Simons currently makes an average of 25 million a year ($27,678,571 this upcoming season) in his current deal. With inflation, many people are batting around whether it will take him over the 30 million a year number on his next deal. Even if he loves the Magic, I can't imagine him playing for substantially less than even his past contract.

Again, as with all these scenarios I hope I'm wrong. I love Suggs. It's just hard to make the money work with our current three here and an avoidance of the NBA aprons. Something seems like it has to give.

Inflation plus the cap rising in theory should mean contracts go up. But I do wonder if there could be some correction by teams in avoiding overpaying players, especially the offense only combo type due to the new CBA and due to those guys lesser value in the postseason. We'll see I guess, he will want to make more than his previous, though that was an overpay so I don't know if it should be relevant in discussions. I would not love 30 million for Simons or 25 for Sexton. Weltman signing another contract that is instantly negative value would not be ideal IMO.

Players have zero leverage if teams don't have cap room, with new CBA top players will get big contracts (30% of cap room), each teams will have 2 max players so GM will have to be clever with the contracts they dish out to the 13 others players.
Mid players like Simons and sexton will get squeezed

That's not how economy in real life, nor in nba works buddy.

Let's say you are OKC and you want to max out SGA and you choose between J Will and Holmgren.
And you hope Holmgren will take below max and you offer him some 5 years, $160M deal.

He declines, plays 4th year and Nets and PIstons offer him full max.

What can OKC do but match salary?

Short answer, nothing, they can't afford to lose him and he becomes max contract player.

Vast majority of rookie extended players didn't deserve max contracts or near max contracts.

Look at last summer and contracts:

Suggs 5 years $150M
Alperen Segun 5 years $185M
Jalen Green 3 years $106M
Trey Murphy 4 years , $112M
Jalen Johnson 3 years whooping $150M
Scottie Barnes 5 years $224M
Franz Wagner 5 years $224M
Evan Mobley 5 years $224M

How many of them will be top 10 players at any point of their careers? Probably non.

But again, what is alternative? Let them hit FA and have Nets give them max? Burn all the bridges with them and agents?


There isn't 60 men in nba worth a max, there probably isn't even 10 of them. But "max contract" is status symbol. Nothing will change that.

Players like Simons and whole bunch of other mid tear nba players will continue to make crazy money because market will continue to be mess. FFS Jonathan Isaac got 5 years contract with single season $25M , guy isn't even top 200 player in nba. Given how little he plays and how bad he is on offense, he is hardly top 300.

Kuminga rejected $150M contract. Why he was ever offered such money? Because Warriors, over a cap, can't actually get anything better. And that's whole problem. Players become overpaid because teams are trapped and have to keep them, because losing them for nothing won't help them.

[basketballRob]

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[Magic_Johnny12]

I personally would make the Suggs/Garland swap, even if we had to add a bit, but I am not convinced that the Cavs would.

How many chances are we going to get to get a PG that could transform the offense? He has his question marks but he averaged 9 assists a game the season before Mitchell got there. 40% from 3 on volume. I don't think there are many swings to take that make more sense than that.

Take this with a grain of salt, but there’s a Cleveland insider on Reddit that seems to be plugged (he called or hinted to the Hunter trade before he dropped apparently).

He claims that the package does NOT include Suggs

He said Cleveland is looking for veteran depth and trade-able contracts and picks.

Apparently they’re discussing KCP/Isaac/TDS/significant pick package (x3 FRP range).

Seems more like speculation, but interesting none the less.

I ran the numbers and Orlando would avoid the apron this season, but the following decisions will need to be made.

What’s the consensus, do people prefer mortgaging cap/picks/youth for Garland or a Suggs centered trade for cap flexibility?

[eyriq]

I personally would make the Suggs/Garland swap, even if we had to add a bit, but I am not convinced that the Cavs would.

How many chances are we going to get to get a PG that could transform the offense? He has his question marks but he averaged 9 assists a game the season before Mitchell got there. 40% from 3 on volume. I don't think there are many swings to take that make more sense than that.

Take this with a grain of salt, but there’s a Cleveland insider on Reddit that seems to be plugged (he called or hinted to the Hunter trade before he dropped apparently).

He claims that the package does NOT include Suggs

He said Cleveland is looking for veteran depth and trade-able contracts and picks.

Apparently they’re discussing KCP/Isaac/TDS/significant pick package (x3 FRP range).

Seems more like speculation, but interesting none the less.

I ran the numbers and Orlando would avoid the apron this season, but the following decisions will need to be made.

What’s the consensus, do people prefer mortgaging cap/picks/youth for Garland or a Suggs centered trade for cap flexibility?

Hmm, a Suggs/Garland backcourt is potentially one of the most balanced in the NBA. We'd choke lower cap slots and hurt our depth, but honestly Suggs declining deal and cap growth outpacing player raises probably allows us to pull this off.

[zuppafly]

I personally would make the Suggs/Garland swap, even if we had to add a bit, but I am not convinced that the Cavs would.

How many chances are we going to get to get a PG that could transform the offense? He has his question marks but he averaged 9 assists a game the season before Mitchell got there. 40% from 3 on volume. I don't think there are many swings to take that make more sense than that.

Take this with a grain of salt, but there’s a Cleveland insider on Reddit that seems to be plugged (he called or hinted to the Hunter trade before he dropped apparently).

He claims that the package does NOT include Suggs

He said Cleveland is looking for veteran depth and trade-able contracts and picks.

Apparently they’re discussing KCP/Isaac/TDS/significant pick package (x3 FRP range).

Seems more like speculation, but interesting none the less.

I ran the numbers and Orlando would avoid the apron this season, but the following decisions will need to be made.

What’s the consensus, do people prefer mortgaging cap/picks/youth for Garland or a Suggs centered trade for cap flexibility?

My pipe dream is Trae, and for that I'd send Suggs to ATL without blinking (and I do love Suggs).
For Garland, there's a feeling of "not the thing we need", because of his injuries past and his playoff performances. He's not the guy I imagine taking over a game, or at least, the guy that has the balls to take a step forward with the game on the line. Suggs has it, even if it means more misses than hits.
So, while I do get why every other NBA fan says a swap would be a steal for the Magic, in our specific context I feel we're losing more within the combo of identity+needs of both players.

Having that said, if the deal is for that package you mention, and we get to run the offense through Garland with Suggs as a SG... man, where do I sign? I'd send both our picks this year, a future one and a few seconds cash considerations.

[zuppafly]

KCP+AB+TDS and one pick for Garland. Works salary-wise.

I know most of this board will say it's an overpay, but if we put aside homer glasses and see AB as he is - a good defender, ok spot up shooter, not a real PG - then this would very likely be a steal. I kind of feel that TDS would be harder to part ways with, but it's my personal opinion only.


Edit: aaand, why not: KCP + AB+ Jett + both our first picks this year for Garland. Works as well, and we keep the german folks together while adding some more value (both firsts this year). Jett is a filler.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Call me a homer but Im not trading Suggs for Garland.

[Def Swami]

I personally would make the Suggs/Garland swap, even if we had to add a bit, but I am not convinced that the Cavs would.

How many chances are we going to get to get a PG that could transform the offense? He has his question marks but he averaged 9 assists a game the season before Mitchell got there. 40% from 3 on volume. I don't think there are many swings to take that make more sense than that.

Take this with a grain of salt, but there’s a Cleveland insider on Reddit that seems to be plugged (he called or hinted to the Hunter trade before he dropped apparently).

He claims that the package does NOT include Suggs

He said Cleveland is looking for veteran depth and trade-able contracts and picks.

Apparently they’re discussing KCP/Isaac/TDS/significant pick package (x3 FRP range).

Seems more like speculation, but interesting none the less.

I ran the numbers and Orlando would avoid the apron this season, but the following decisions will need to be made.

What’s the consensus, do people prefer mortgaging cap/picks/youth for Garland or a Suggs centered trade for cap flexibility?

I could be on board either way. Garland’s skillset pairs really well with Banchero, more than Suggs. At the same time, I don’t believe in Weltman’s ability to do anything important with those picks. 3 picks is a bit steep though. Garland is worth 2 max.

[Magic_Johnny12]

I personally would make the Suggs/Garland swap, even if we had to add a bit, but I am not convinced that the Cavs would.

How many chances are we going to get to get a PG that could transform the offense? He has his question marks but he averaged 9 assists a game the season before Mitchell got there. 40% from 3 on volume. I don't think there are many swings to take that make more sense than that.

Take this with a grain of salt, but there’s a Cleveland insider on Reddit that seems to be plugged (he called or hinted to the Hunter trade before he dropped apparently).

He claims that the package does NOT include Suggs

He said Cleveland is looking for veteran depth and trade-able contracts and picks.

Apparently they’re discussing KCP/Isaac/TDS/significant pick package (x3 FRP range).

Seems more like speculation, but interesting none the less.

I ran the numbers and Orlando would avoid the apron this season, but the following decisions will need to be made.

What’s the consensus, do people prefer mortgaging cap/picks/youth for Garland or a Suggs centered trade for cap flexibility?

3 picks is a bit steep though. Garland is worth 2 max.

I guess that depends on how you value Isaac/KCP/TDS and the eagerness of Orlando to make a deal happen.

[Idiosyncratic]

Garland deal to me will depend on how much the Cavs value money savings/ depth and potential future competitiveness over running it back for one arguably better chance at a title.

I do think there is a world where they make that choice, so Orlando should make an offer, but I feel like if I were them I would maybe take one more chance to win a title with this group and an injured Boston in the East.

[Black and Blue]

Inflation plus the cap rising in theory should mean contracts go up. But I do wonder if there could be some correction by teams in avoiding overpaying players, especially the offense only combo type due to the new CBA and due to those guys lesser value in the postseason. We'll see I guess, he will want to make more than his previous, though that was an overpay so I don't know if it should be relevant in discussions. I would not love 30 million for Simons or 25 for Sexton. Weltman signing another contract that is instantly negative value would not be ideal IMO.

Players have zero leverage if teams don't have cap room, with new CBA top players will get big contracts (30% of cap room), each teams will have 2 max players so GM will have to be clever with the contracts they dish out to the 13 others players.
Mid players like Simons and sexton will get squeezed

That's not how economy in real life, nor in nba works buddy.

Let's say you are OKC and you want to max out SGA and you choose between J Will and Holmgren.
And you hope Holmgren will take below max and you offer him some 5 years, $160M deal.

He declines, plays 4th year and Nets and PIstons offer him full max.

What can OKC do but match salary?

Short answer, nothing, they can't afford to lose him and he becomes max contract player.

Vast majority of rookie extended players didn't deserve max contracts or near max contracts.

Look at last summer and contracts:

Suggs 5 years $150M
Alperen Segun 5 years $185M
Jalen Green 3 years $106M
Trey Murphy 4 years , $112M
Jalen Johnson 3 years whooping $150M
Scottie Barnes 5 years $224M
Franz Wagner 5 years $224M
Evan Mobley 5 years $224M

How many of them will be top 10 players at any point of their careers? Probably non.

But again, what is alternative? Let them hit FA and have Nets give them max? Burn all the bridges with them and agents?


There isn't 60 men in nba worth a max, there probably isn't even 10 of them. But "max contract" is status symbol. Nothing will change that.

Players like Simons and whole bunch of other mid tear nba players will continue to make crazy money because market will continue to be mess. FFS Jonathan Isaac got 5 years contract with single season $25M , guy isn't even top 200 player in nba. Given how little he plays and how bad he is on offense, he is hardly top 300.

Kuminga rejected $150M contract. Why he was ever offered such money? Because Warriors, over a cap, can't actually get anything better. And that's whole problem. Players become overpaid because teams are trapped and have to keep them, because losing them for nothing won't help them.

Well said. The tough spot the team finds themselves in is they have to improve the team (quality point guard that has the possibility of being with the team long term) AND there is the reality that they simply can't fit too much money and stay under multiple aprons. Trading the Suggs contract is the unfortunate way to improve the PG spot while keeping our cap low enough to absorb that new player.

I'm seeing a lot of suggestions out there where we keep Suggs and get a decent point guard option long term. It's going to be super tough and will require this franchise to go into taxes they historically never have. I could see a situation where we keep Suggs and get a loaner that we are willing to lose, like a short term 1 year guy, but people don't want to hear that. Is the fanbase happy with a Tyus Jones for a year or two and no one else? I am doubtful on that.

I'm no Weltman apologist, trust me, but this is just the reality in the NBA right now. Not just for us but for all the teams. The Celtics and Cavs are going to have to part with pieces too, so it's not just us. Weltman did sit on his hands for way too long, but it wouldn't have affected this particular quagmire the Magic and other teams find themselves in. Smarter people than me seem to believe that Suggs contract is one that's meant to be traded, OR there is some bigger plot in the works that requires trading Paolo or Franz (which holy hell I'm hoping there isn't).

The loophole in all of this is literally drafting a PG who you keep cost controlled for a while, but the Black pick did not hit in that direction and the team doesn't have the luxury of drafting and sitting on another PG project while Paolo is banging down the door for help now.

Now one spot I will agree with Magic fans is if we have to give up Suggs, it BETTER be for someone of value who vaults us into title status. Garland does that in my opinion (just my opinion). Ball might if he gets his head on straight. Trae might but I am dubious the Hawks are willing to part with him unless he is unhappy behind the scenes. Poole might but boy would that be an unpopular move. Jrue might but that is a rental move at best. The options are limited. The one move I am dubious on is the Magic running things back and praying that miraculously Suggs stays healthy, has found a way to unlock another gear despite not playing for a very long time, and against all odds the Magic's offense fixes itself on its own. That is not happening.

[Skybox]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

[RichCollab]

When can trades kick off? Draft night?

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

This is on the t&t board and laughable. Talk about MASSIVE OVERPAY

Magic Out: KCP, Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva, 16th pick in this year's draft,Magic 2027 and 2029 1st round pick
Magic In: Darius Garland

[Skybox]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

This is on the t&t board and laughable. Talk about MASSIVE OVERPAY

Magic Out: KCP, Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva, 16th pick in this year's draft,Magic 2027 and 2029 1st round pick
Magic In: Darius Garland

I'd really consider that...the number of picks is higher, but that 26 frp might be more valuable than 3 late frps. Sorry AB and TdS, but

[89Magicfan]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

This is on the t&t board and laughable. Talk about MASSIVE OVERPAY

Magic Out: KCP, Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva, 16th pick in this year's draft,Magic 2027 and 2029 1st round pick
Magic In: Darius Garland

I’m taking that deal and hauling ass without looking back.