Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

This is on the t&t board and laughable. Talk about MASSIVE OVERPAY

Magic Out: KCP, Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva, 16th pick in this year's draft,Magic 2027 and 2029 1st round pick
Magic In: Darius Garland

I'd really consider that...the number of picks is higher, but that 26 frp might be more valuable than 3 late frps. Sorry AB and TdS, but

What depth do you have then? I’d rather keep TDS and flip Jett.

Maybe it’s not that bad of an offer also thought 27 pick was 26. Picks are spaced out we keep Suggs and possibly have more wiggle room for FA

[Skybox]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

To be clear, I'd hate to trade Suggs...but I'd really really hate to trade him to a team that looks to be our arch-rivals in conference for the next half-decade (we hope). I think Garland tears up most defenders - but a showdown series with Suggs post-trade could be ugly. I value KCP and AB but, in no way, do I have the same respect (fear? ) that I would for a Suggs, who was born with a chip on his shoulder, being even more hyped.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I'd love to get Garland...but I'm really hesitant to contribute to a CLE monster backcourt that would be better than ours at both spots.

Something to consider...Suggs & Garland's salaries are very close this year...but Suggs dips below $30m in just a couple of seasons...could be painful in the short term, but I think we contend in the East next season if we can find a way to add Garland and keep Suggs. If I'm CLE, I have to really consider how big the dropoff from Suggs to KCP and other stuff is on-court, when the salaries are considered...That 26 frp could be the sweetener that allows a KCP/Isaac or WCJ deal have some appeal vs Suggs. I think you could make an argument that CLE , like BOS, WILL be looking to reduce their payroll while still addressing their imbalances. How much better is Mitchell/Suggs than Mitchell/KCP with $12m to spend on another contributor (or Ty Jerome). Allen/Mobley is questioned as much as Mitchell/Garland...they could bring in WCJ with KCP and significant draft equity (for example) and get another haul for Allen in the next deal.

Suggs is a gamble, given his shooting and long-term health...he may not be the big deciding factor for CLE - even though he might be a deal-breaker on our end. Garland is really really good but we're not talking about Giannis or Booker or probably even KD haul.

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, Jett (expiring but interesting), #25, ORL 26 w/swap
CLE sends: Garland
-Does this make CLE a better or worse team? It's debatable - even though Garland is clearly the most valuable piece. That 26 frp is nothing to sneeze at.

This is on the t&t board and laughable. Talk about MASSIVE OVERPAY

Magic Out: KCP, Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva, 16th pick in this year's draft,Magic 2027 and 2029 1st round pick
Magic In: Darius Garland

I’m taking that deal and hauling ass without looking back.

Ehh I guess I’d be worried about finding depth then. I’d rather swap Jett with TDS and I’d feel a little bit better.

[Idiosyncratic]

When can trades kick off? Draft night?

I always thought it was technically when your season ends, but I am not sure. The only pre-draft trade I can think of in the last few years was the Giddey trade.

[Skybox]

This is on the t&t board and laughable. Talk about MASSIVE OVERPAY

Magic Out: KCP, Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva, 16th pick in this year's draft,Magic 2027 and 2029 1st round pick
Magic In: Darius Garland

I'd really consider that...the number of picks is higher, but that 26 frp might be more valuable than 3 late frps. Sorry AB and TdS, but

What depth do you have then?

Too much depth in the frontcourt...so trades for balanced depth, sprinkled with vet min ring-chasers/low minute placeholders and the good GMs can find undrafted guys and second rounders just to eat minutes here and there. We don't have to find the next Austin Reaves, just an occasional Keon Ellis or similar...I get that we'd be top-heavy but depth beyond 5 or 6 is overrated. Look at BOS, when your main engine goes down - you're done. Next man up is kind of a myth or, at least, a limited feel-good story for decent teams, but not champs.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I'd really consider that...the number of picks is higher, but that 26 frp might be more valuable than 3 late frps. Sorry AB and TdS, but

What depth do you have then?

Too much depth in the frontcourt...so trades for balanced depth, sprinkled with vet min ring-chasers/low minute placeholders and the good GMs can find undrafted guys and second rounders just to eat minutes here and there. We don't have to find the next Austin Reaves, just an occasional Keon Ellis or similar...I get that we'd be top-heavy but depth beyond 5 or 6 is overrated. Look at BOS, when your main engine goes down - you're done. Next man up is kind of a myth or, at least, a limited feel-good story for decent teams, but not champs.

Just don’t think our FO would be able to figure it out and make the necessary 2nd trade to balance.

[Skybox]

What depth do you have then?

Too much depth in the frontcourt...so trades for balanced depth, sprinkled with vet min ring-chasers/low minute placeholders and the good GMs can find undrafted guys and second rounders just to eat minutes here and there. We don't have to find the next Austin Reaves, just an occasional Keon Ellis or similar...I get that we'd be top-heavy but depth beyond 5 or 6 is overrated. Look at BOS, when your main engine goes down - you're done. Next man up is kind of a myth or, at least, a limited feel-good story for decent teams, but not champs.

Just don’t think our FO would be able to figure it out and make the necessary 2nd trade to balance.

Maybe...people floating around stuff like Goga for Royce O'Neal kind of makes sense. I'm not sure that particular one flies, but versatile, multi-positional guys (like TdS and Isaac, for example, can cover a lot of ground).

The career arc of the role player/journeyman is sometimes:
1. underpaid, late or undrafted, finds a role for himself
2. gets paid and leaves his team
3. ages a bit and settles back into a lesser pay scale
There's so many guys like Taurean Prince, PJ Tucker, Martin twins, GTJ, Beasley, Gary Harris (might be ready for a pay cut), Morris twins, Eric Gordon, Lowry, Oubre...guys that just bounce around but always seem to contribute. Good GMs cycle these guys through, never overpaying - knowing that the middle class is being squeezed and there are always other options if you're not expecting a world-beater and you refuse to be held hostage by a role player who has a good year. Team-building around the edges is even harder than making a top draft pick...but can be equally impactful. Oubre is a good example of a guy who bounces around, but shows up and ends up being the second leading scorer on the team - then gets moved on again.

[drsd]

if Sexton requires "picks" and not just 1 pick, then move on. I like Sexton for us, but not at multiple picks

We all know I want two trades. One that involves Anthony and another that involves Caldwell-Pope; to bring back an offeisve minded starting guard and a major-minutes bench SF. If getting a starter and a bench player costs the #16, #25, and both SRPs, I don't care what goes where in trades.

To your point: Anthony, #25, and both SRPs is indeed "picks". I am sure your ok with that philosophically.

[drsd]

I don’t get why people are presuming to know what Sexton’s (or anybody’s) price will be. Ainge is not a moron- he’s known to be a challenge to deal with…it’s not a given that #25 and Cole gets him or that he will agree to a modest extension. I’d guess that Simons is just as available and kind of already in the way of his replacement.

I love Suggs and his contract is superior, but I think we’re being a bit homer delusional to think that a straight up trade for Garland is realistic. I guarantee that the national view of that would be unfavorable. A different question is fit and cap hit, but Garland is far more accomplished.

And-1

To agree: Suggs, #16, and #25 is not enought for Garland.

[Skybox]

Locked On Hosts do NBA Mock drafts and they finished it up yesterday. PRR went into it looking at 3 specific players and those who he thinks the Magic will be after.. Anfernee Simons, Colin Sexton, Austin Reaves. Locked on lakers had wild valuation for Reaves. Put in a bid for Malik Monk but the locked on Kings wanted KCP, AB, 16 for Monk and Terrence Davis.

PRR was between 2 deals Simons and Sexton. Didn't have to give up AB or Isaac (not shocked on Isaac). Trade ultimately narrowed down to KCP, 16, Gary for Anfernee Simons & 2 2nds. 16th pick is the cost to get off KCP money and Simons. PRR mocked Simons at 3/90M extension and said there's no way he's not a 30M player likely the usual Jeff declining number.

Sexton deal was just Cole + 16 for Sexton. Just liked Simons the most in terms of higher upside, scoring abilities and playmaking abilities while not having to have the ball in his hands. Sexton likely is in the 25M range but might creep up big time.

Magic will very likely be over the 1st apron but will likely try to cut payroll by the deadline which is when they have to be under. 20 Point scorers are going for 30M and that's what you have to pay in today's NBA.

PRR roleplayed that extremely well. B+

i do not see sexton for sure and even simons getting 20 pts a game for whole season on magic they will not get shots every night and if they want 30 have to pass just get jones for 2/3 yrs or paul for yr..wish those guys luck in fa in new nba ...money reality will slap them in face...4 yr rookie contracts for picks in 16 range have value now more then ever

That's what happens with good teams...great players like Derrick White (16.4 ppg) and Jrue Holiday ( 11.1 ppg) average well below their capability, but the world knows that they can explode at any moment...on the other hand, Cam Johnson, Dennis Schroeder, and Cam Thomas go for 20+ppg in a losing environment.

Simons will walk on to the court every night and be a threat to go for 35...but, if we're good, he'll average 18ppg

[Black and Blue]

Just to be super clear guys, and I implore you to please, please, please read this: The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW. With this current playoff play-in roster. Once the extension for Paolo and others kicks in, they will be even MORE in trouble.

-And this is a franchise that runs from spending extra tax money like the plague. They hand out second round picks and ask for cash considerations like a beggar. They are one of 5-6 teams in the NBA who have NEVER gone into the tax (coincidentally, unless the Pacers win it all this year, all of these NBA teams that refuse to ever go into the tax have never won a championship).

I only say this because while it's fun, there is not even a possible alternate dimension we can jump into Dr Strange-style in which we keep Suggs, Paolo and Franz...and then add a person of substance like Garland, Ball, or Ja. You want those players, you have to give up one of our high salary guys.

"But wait", you say, "I made it work by keeping our big three and trading the other 47 players to equal the value!" The problem with that is NBA contracts aren't a single year. They stay expensive and many deals escalate in value (especially other teams). And you need some roster balance. The NBA is making sure the era of having 4 high paid players taking up 90% of the salaries are over. They want parity above all, and that means you have your big three and even that is a challenge to keep.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I just really like you guys and don't want you to be confused or disappointed with where this team goes this offseason. It's either going to be some meh roster moves to switch out our role players, or a wow move that shakes up the foundation of the team but costs one of the big three. The money forces this unless the team goes deep into the tax to signal win now. If THAT happens, then wow I would be surprised because it would suggest this is an ownership group that is willing to spend money to contend in a title window (aka it ain't happening).

[MasterGMer]

I might be on the minority here.

What if KCP, JI even including Cole’s performance this past season is one of the anomalies here

KCP is a career 39%+ three point shooter

JI without his weight like showed two seasons ago is still among the elite in defense

Cole is inconsistent since maybe his third season here. But he light it up in the playin and got us to the playoffs

What if these players can improve and we are undervaluing their worth just based on last season

Should we ship out Suggs for Garland? I don’t like it

But because of the trade thus we do the trade is not viable and smart

Does Magic need to make the move? Heck yeah, also Btw in two years even if OKC can win the championship this season, we are going to talk about how can they afford their young core. It is coming up just like Cleveland this offseason and just like Boston

It could be the case for us also. With Paolo’s max kicking in, we will be in tax territory plus second apron

My point is we should take that into consideration if we indeed make a move this off-season

We need to make things happen this summer. Could be the most pivotal for a long time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cedric76]

Just to be super clear guys, and I implore you to please, please, please read this: The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW. With this current playoff play-in roster. Once the extension for Paolo and others kicks in, they will be even MORE in trouble.

-And this is a franchise that runs from spending extra tax money like the plague. They hand out second round picks and ask for cash considerations like a beggar. They are one of 5-6 teams in the NBA who have NEVER gone into the tax (coincidentally, unless the Pacers win it all this year, all of these NBA teams that refuse to ever go into the tax have never won a championship).

I only say this because while it's fun, there is not even a possible alternate dimension we can jump into Dr Strange-style in which we keep Suggs, Paolo and Franz...and then add a person of substance like Garland, Ball, or Ja. You want those players, you have to give up one of our high salary guys.

"But wait", you say, "I made it work by keeping our big three and trading the other 47 players to equal the value!" The problem with that is NBA contracts aren't a single year. They stay expensive and many deals escalate in value (especially other teams). And you need some roster balance. The NBA is making sure the era of having 4 high paid players taking up 90% of the salaries are over. They want parity above all, and that means you have your big three and even that is a challenge to keep.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I just really like you guys and don't want you to be confused or disappointed with where this team goes this offseason. It's either going to be some meh roster moves to switch out our role players, or a wow move that shakes up the foundation of the team but costs one of the big three. The money forces this unless the team goes deep into the tax to signal win now. If THAT happens, then wow I would be surprised because it would suggest this is an ownership group that is willing to spend money to contend in a title window (aka it ain't happening).

Anyone not understanding our cap situation or new CBA should check this

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly/_/sort/cap_total/view/roster

[orlando_joe]

PRR roleplayed that extremely well. B+

i do not see sexton for sure and even simons getting 20 pts a game for whole season on magic they will not get shots every night and if they want 30 have to pass just get jones for 2/3 yrs or paul for yr..wish those guys luck in fa in new nba ...money reality will slap them in face...4 yr rookie contracts for picks in 16 range have value now more then ever

That's what happens with good teams...great players like Derrick White (16.4 ppg) and Jrue Holiday ( 11.1 ppg) average well below their capability, but the world knows that they can explode at any moment...on the other hand, Cam Johnson, Dennis Schroeder, and Cam Thomas go for 20+ppg in a losing environment.

Simons will walk on to the court every night and be a threat to go for 35...but, if we're good, he'll average 18ppg

well point is you paying him 120 plus for 4 yrs to be a target on one end and stand in corner on the other or you taking ball out of franz and paolo hands and giving him total green light to barley get 20 points a game? me not giving anything if he wants 30 plus a yr long term contract for that

edit and both your examples are known for defense...lol... simons lets just say...not so much..he is more pritchard with less effort on defense

[RichCollab]

I feel like the range of guards we could get is Sexton - Derrick White.

Give me Suggs, AB, and Coby White and I will be happy. I wouldn’t mind adding Tyus to that group.

[Knightro]

Just to be super clear guys, and I implore you to please, please, please read this: The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW.

That's not entirely accurate.

They will be below the first apron and out of the luxury tax period when they inevitably decline their team options on Moritz, Gary and CoJo.

There's a very real scenario where the Magic are not an apron team this season.

Now next year? They'll probably be a 2nd apron team, but the year after that KCP is gone (if he isn't traded) and they'll be back in a good place financially.

[Knightro]

2025-2026
Luxury Tax: $187.8M
1st apron: $195.9M
2nd apron: $207.8M

If the Magic decline Moritz, Gary and CoJo, they'll be at approximately $177M on 12 players. Add two first round picks (which they could trade away) will add about $10M to the books.

Leaving them roughly $9M under the first apron.

If they do make a trade for a high priced guard, I suspect they salaries will be very close to matching.

Cole (13.1), Goga (8.3), Jett (5.5) gets them to 27M. Obviously KCP (21.6) is the big salary that could be moved, but I think his value is underwater.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

2025-2026
Luxury Tax: $187.8M
1st apron: $195.9M
2nd apron: $207.8M

If the Magic decline Moritz, Gary and CoJo, they'll be at approximately $177M on 12 players. Add two first round picks (which they could trade away) will add about $10M to the books.

Leaving them roughly $9M under the first apron.

If they do make a trade for a high priced guard, I suspect they salaries will be very close to matching.

Cole (13.1), Goga (8.3), Jett (5.5) gets them to 27M. Obviously KCP (21.6) is the big salary that could be moved, but I think his value is underwater.

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

[Knightro]

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

I will bet a significant amount of money gets his team option declined.

That does NOT mean he won't return though.

But they will decline the option to maximize their flexibility for trades and then resign him using bird rights later on in the summer once they've made their moves.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

I will bet a significant amount of money gets his team option declined.

That does NOT mean he won't return though.

But they will decline the option to maximize their flexibility for trades and then resign him using bird rights later on in the summer once they've made their moves.

It’s actually foolish to think otherwise.