Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[eyriq]

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

I will bet a significant amount of money gets his team option declined.

That does NOT mean he won't return though.

But they will decline the option to maximize their flexibility for trades and then resign him using bird rights later on in the summer once they've made their moves.

Fans are extremely slow to recognize this obvious inevitability. It drives me insane.

[Knightro]

Long story short, it would benefit the Magic to be under BOTH aprons before the execute any trades for maximum flexibility.

They can go back over the apron after that.

The way they get under is declining Gary and Moritz and CoJo.

[Skybox]

i do not see sexton for sure and even simons getting 20 pts a game for whole season on magic they will not get shots every night and if they want 30 have to pass just get jones for 2/3 yrs or paul for yr..wish those guys luck in fa in new nba ...money reality will slap them in face...4 yr rookie contracts for picks in 16 range have value now more then ever

That's what happens with good teams...great players like Derrick White (16.4 ppg) and Jrue Holiday ( 11.1 ppg) average well below their capability, but the world knows that they can explode at any moment...on the other hand, Cam Johnson, Dennis Schroeder, and Cam Thomas go for 20+ppg in a losing environment.

Simons will walk on to the court every night and be a threat to go for 35...but, if we're good, he'll average 18ppg

well point is you paying him 120 plus for 4 yrs to be a target on one end and stand in corner on the other or you taking ball out of franz and paolo hands and giving him total green light to barley get 20 points a game? me not giving anything if he wants 30 plus a yr long term contract for that

edit and both your examples are known for defense...lol... simons lets just say...not so much..he is more pritchard with less effort on defense

You're right...lets just stick with bad mismatched players as opposed to my plan of paying an elite scorer to stand in the corner and something about barley...very well conceived. He is more Pritchard? WTF

[Skybox]

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

I will bet a significant amount of money gets his team option declined.

That does NOT mean he won't return though.

But they will decline the option to maximize their flexibility for trades and then resign him using bird rights later on in the summer once they've made their moves.

Fans are extremely slow to recognize this obvious inevitability. It drives me insane.

Do you maintain his Bird rights after declining his option?

Declining his option and re-working his deal for more years at less salary is my favorite option. Second is just declining his option and promising to talk later. Dumbest option is pick up his $11m option for ONE year - which he will largely spend rehabbing - while the team is hamstrung by apron issues and no MLE...and then have him become a UFA anyway.

[Knightro]

Do you maintain his Bird rights after declining his option?

Declining his option and re-working his deal for more years at less salary is my favorite option. Second is just declining his option and promising to talk later. Dumbest option is pick up his $11m option for ONE year - which he will largely spend rehabbing - while the team is hamstrung by apron issues and no MLE...and then have him become a UFA anyway.

Yes, because he's been on the roster for 4+ years.

[basketballRob]

The Bulls may want the Magic to take PWill's contract with Coby White. KCP and Cole for Williams and White. Williams hasn't been good and has 4 more seasons at $18m per season.

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[Skybox]

Do you maintain his Bird rights after declining his option?

Declining his option and re-working his deal for more years at less salary is my favorite option. Second is just declining his option and promising to talk later. Dumbest option is pick up his $11m option for ONE year - which he will largely spend rehabbing - while the team is hamstrung by apron issues and no MLE...and then have him become a UFA anyway.

Yes, because he's been on the roster for 4+ years.

Then it's even more of a no-brainer

[basketballRob]

Actually, Patrick Williams has shot .392 from 3 for his career. If we traded for him, I'd assume we'd need to trade Isaac.

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[Skybox]

I keep thinking Weltman should have already called LAL and "aggressively" discussed Reaves...but then my mind had this image of McFly going at Biff

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

I will bet a significant amount of money gets his team option declined.

That does NOT mean he won't return though.

But they will decline the option to maximize their flexibility for trades and then resign him using bird rights later on in the summer once they've made their moves.

Fans are extremely slow to recognize this obvious inevitability. It drives me insane.

Ok so we’re saying the same thing then. They’re not just going to waive him and pray they find something better.

[Magic_Johnny12]

The Bulls may want the Magic to take PWill's contract with Coby White. KCP and Cole for Williams and White. Williams hasn't been good and has 4 more seasons at $18m per season.

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Coby is good, but cmon.

Dude is an expiring looking for 40AAV (reported).

Williams is a deadweight contract and would cripple a team that’s already having cap constraints.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The Bulls may want the Magic to take PWill's contract with Coby White. KCP and Cole for Williams and White. Williams hasn't been good and has 4 more seasons at $18m per season.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

Coby is good, but cmon.

Dude is an expiring looking for 40AAV (reported).

Williams is a deadweight contract and would cripple a team that’s already having cap constraints.

If you want White you give up picks not take back 18M deadweight for years. That would be Ibaka move all over again.

[Black and Blue]

Just to be super clear guys, and I implore you to please, please, please read this: The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW. With this current playoff play-in roster. Once the extension for Paolo and others kicks in, they will be even MORE in trouble.

-And this is a franchise that runs from spending extra tax money like the plague. They hand out second round picks and ask for cash considerations like a beggar. They are one of 5-6 teams in the NBA who have NEVER gone into the tax (coincidentally, unless the Pacers win it all this year, all of these NBA teams that refuse to ever go into the tax have never won a championship).

I only say this because while it's fun, there is not even a possible alternate dimension we can jump into Dr Strange-style in which we keep Suggs, Paolo and Franz...and then add a person of substance like Garland, Ball, or Ja. You want those players, you have to give up one of our high salary guys.

"But wait", you say, "I made it work by keeping our big three and trading the other 47 players to equal the value!" The problem with that is NBA contracts aren't a single year. They stay expensive and many deals escalate in value (especially other teams). And you need some roster balance. The NBA is making sure the era of having 4 high paid players taking up 90% of the salaries are over. They want parity above all, and that means you have your big three and even that is a challenge to keep.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I just really like you guys and don't want you to be confused or disappointed with where this team goes this offseason. It's either going to be some meh roster moves to switch out our role players, or a wow move that shakes up the foundation of the team but costs one of the big three. The money forces this unless the team goes deep into the tax to signal win now. If THAT happens, then wow I would be surprised because it would suggest this is an ownership group that is willing to spend money to contend in a title window (aka it ain't happening).

Anyone not understanding our cap situation or new CBA should check this

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly/_/sort/cap_total/view/roster

Thanks for posting this

[Black and Blue]

Just to be super clear guys, and I implore you to please, please, please read this: The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW.

That's not entirely accurate.

They will be below the first apron and out of the luxury tax period when they inevitably decline their team options on Moritz, Gary and CoJo.

There's a very real scenario where the Magic are not an apron team this season.

Now next year? They'll probably be a 2nd apron team, but the year after that KCP is gone (if he isn't traded) and they'll be back in a good place financially.

But what I posted is indeed accurate. They need to make moves to avoid the apron. They are currently projected to be an apron team as it stands.

My larger point is that people keep adding a lot of salary onto our roster while avoiding us losing anyone of value. Something has to give. There isn’t a long term situation where we keep Suggs, Black, and anyone else we want while we acquire substantial talent this season. We have to play limbo under this annoying apron stick at the luau to make it work. We can get short term help (maybe rentals are the plan if Weltman was looking for expirings last trade deadline), but extending quality players while keeping our big three is going to be super difficult.

[Knightro]

Just to be super clear guys, and I implore you to please, please, please read this: The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW.

That's not entirely accurate.

They will be below the first apron and out of the luxury tax period when they inevitably decline their team options on Moritz, Gary and CoJo.

There's a very real scenario where the Magic are not an apron team this season.

Now next year? They'll probably be a 2nd apron team, but the year after that KCP is gone (if he isn't traded) and they'll be back in a good place financially.

But what I posted is indeed accurate. They need to make moves to avoid the apron. They are current projected to be an apron team as it stands.

My larger point is that people keep adding a lot of salary onto our roster while avoiding us losing anyone of value. Something has to give. There isn’t a long term situation where we keep Suggs, Black, and anyone else we want while we acquire substantial talent this season. We have to play limbo under this annoying apron stick at the luau to make it work. We can get short term help (maybe rentals are the plan if Weltman was looking for expirings last trade deadline), but extending quality players while keeping our big three is going to be super difficult.

Well yes, technically you’re correct.

But the moves to get them under the aprons are basically assumed IMO.

[dsg2021]

About this CLE rumor of a Garland trade to ORL -

It's ballsy of ORL Ownership because they might have to commit to some 2nd Apron years, but yes it always made sense that we could add Garland to our Big 3 Core because Suggs' contract is descending in value. And Franz & Paolo are not mega contracts like say PG13's because of their low amount of years in the league.

When I was looking at major trade-up ideas for Tre Johnson, I actually came away with the idea that Isaac was going to be one of the top contracts in the league as a trade chip. It becomes a TPE but 10x better because you can aggregate/add it to other player salaries (you can't with TPE's). And this flexibility lasts for 3 whole seasons. When you look at the level of toughness and defense they instill with a duo of KCP and Isaac, it's a culture change for CLE too. I actually really hate TDS going out, because he was good on both ends and I think he was slept on by this board. I'm high on TDS. I would literally haggle like crazy on putting Jett in instead, or AB with 1-2 less ORL 1st picks outgoing. Because between TDS/AB and the 2-3x FRP's, I'm terrified of them finding someone who comes out more valuable than Garland (especially that WAS/PHX swap). I actually kind of believe this package with 5-6x FRP's gets you in the conversation for almost anyone like Giannis or Booker because the '26 WAS/PHX swap is lottery attractive and any FRP's so far out are kind of automatically lottery attractive as well.

BUT.. yes, I would heavily consider this trade. And be really happy to add Garland even though I come out a little a bit against the trade. I just wonder if again that ORL trade package above could probably get something even bigger at some point. And now that package flexibility goes to CLE (and we're sitting here hoping a, for example, Booker trade can get done with Garland specifically, and not nearly as much draft picks or cap flexibility outgoing). You can even get into the top 2-8 picks with some version of that prime ORL package. Garland also doesn't add length to our team, and I was trying to avoid this so that small ace defenders would become much less effective against ORL. I also see a developing injury history and a player who wilts in the Playoffs quite a bit at the current moment. Being a defensive liability is almost a given, so you can also queue up all those old Jameer posts from game threads saying we can't win with his short height on defense out there.

On the flipside, he's a true star in regular season stats. They imply he is a bona fide Top 5-10 PG. He's still a younger type of player at 25. And when I looked into some data points like his splits, CLE's playoffs wins happen WHEN Garland has a good game more than anyone else. It's eye-popping. And the more you rate his injury history as a concern, the less strictness you judge some of his semi-injured Playoffs games.
He is a small guard who has learned how to score and shoot around his short height. He averaged 21.8 PPG, 7.5 APG to 3.5 TO, 3.1 RPG on 44.4 FG%, 38.1 3P%, and 82.7 FT% in 32 games without Donovan Mitchell in the last 3 seasons. Not too dissimilar to his AS season right before Mitchell joined CLE. He went 58.7% FG% and an impressive 57.1% from beyond the arc in the clutch category of this past regular season, leading ALL players with at least 80 clutch points. He genuinely brings the ball up every time, captains the floor, fixes up our end-game potency, and adds a true playmaker and backcourt scorer.


Ultimately, I may lean more into a trade-up landing Tre Johnson and a trade landing Anfernee Simons, because I think we can come out of both acquisitions perhaps even less in the hole. And for the defensive sieve that is Garland, I like Tre's star potential and I like Simons similar shooting impact. With both giving ORL more combined cap space flexibility than Garland's, meaning a deeper bench or deeper top 6-7 players.
Even more soundly (to get away from my gamble on a rookie), I'd lean into holding onto above's trade package because like I said, with 4-6x FRP's, and the top tier contract trade chip of Isaac for 3 seasons, plus the impact of a vet like KCP and the upside of a youngster like AB or TDS or a new rookie yet to be added, I think we are in the conversation for some even bigger stars than Garland. We could even offer a big 1+1 or 2+1 contract to a guard like Anfernee or Coby to keep in line with that trade package's timeline.

But don't get it wrong, I would be very happy to add Garland with Suggs beside him! Ironically, even though Mitchell is a WAY better 1st star than Paolo or Franz today, Garland felt big pressure to be the 2nd star in CLE. And in ORL, Garland would be in this very weird spot where he captains and quarterbacks the possessions a lot, but isn't a 2nd star/option because both Paolo and Franz are that kind of young stars to be 1a and 1b. Garland just gets to focus on putting up 20 PPG and 9 APG on dirty %'s like 40 3P% and landing clutch points from so much focus on Franz & Paolo in the 4th quarter (on their own ways to 24-30+ PPG). I'm also of the belief that everything I see from Suggs is a 36+ 3P% guy soon, and someone to cover Garland and motivate each other.

Why his height doesn't matter on Offense -

Watch on YouTube

[cedric76]

Think it’s foolish to say Magic are going to waive Moe W. Dude pretty much carried the bench this past year before he went down. Went from 5th in bench scoring to 29th after he went down.

If Moe W gets waived that would signal a BIG DEAL going down and they need his 11M.

I will bet a significant amount of money gets his team option declined.

That does NOT mean he won't return though.

But they will decline the option to maximize their flexibility for trades and then resign him using bird rights later on in the summer once they've made their moves.

Same here, this is what s gonna happen

[cedric76]

Can we upgrade KCP to Trey Murphy

He is an outstanding 3-and-D wing that is locked on a very good contract till 2029
Suggs,Trey,Franz,P5,WCJ would be crazy insane and Trey makes 3 3PT (8 attempts) per game which would really help with our spacing

However he ll be expensive

KCP+ Jett+ 16 + 2027 FRP + 2028 FRP + few SRP

That's a lot

Then Cole+ 25 for sexton if he agrees to extend for less than 90M / 4 yrs

Draft Lanier or brea using our SRP


Suggs. Sexton, cojo
Trey, ab, Lanier (or Brea)
Franz, TDS, Houstan
P5, ji, Moe
WCJ,Moe,goga

Offer a min contract to a vet pf/c

We are set for years with well constructed contracts that will keep us under the 2nd apron.
We keep our 2026 frp (likely to be lotto).

[pepe1991]

Murphy is great player. Ringer had him 56th on start of current season, before he broke out, meaning, he is top 50 player in nba now.

Pelicans gave up Ingram because of him, have him on long term contract, payed him serious money. I can't see single reason why would they move him.

And if they elect to do so, you have to expect some crazy haul to get him like 2-3 unprotected picks and young player in return.

Guy is 24-25 years old, averaging 21-5-4 on 60% TS and great defense.


For sake of argument, expiring OG still costed former 3# pick (Barrett) and great young starter (Quickley) .


You can make argument that on not so strong East, Murphy is all star talent.
Hell, Spurs will be first team in line to give up 2# pick for Murphy if Pelicans decide to deal him.

Great player, but not realistic target for us.

Days of targeting $30M guys for trade, without getting rid of Suggs or one of PB / Franz are over.
That's why i'm not sure i believe they will go for Simons type player.

By doing nothing but just picking up Mortiz , Magic are first apron team before they even payed Banchero.
There is scenario where Magic in soon future will be using picks to get out of bad contracts.

[drsd]

The Orlando Magic are projected to be over the first apron NOW. With this current playoff play-in roster. Once the extension for Paolo and others kicks in, they will be even MORE in trouble.

I agree with the tone of you post, notably on my answer to the second half below. But the accounting of the Banchero max is not a problem in the medium term. The finances of the team from the 2028.29 season are fine.

Why? Two reasons. i) Suggs has a declining contract that makes it easy to swallow F-Wagner's and Banchero's max-deals. Indeed, the reason the Magic is over the apron next year is because Suggs is so WILDLY overpaid in 2025.25. But that was done so that when the team gets "interesting", Suggs will be on a normal deal for his contract line.

and ii) we cannot underestimate what 10% annual increases to the salary cap will do to players' salaries. F-Wagner and Banchero are maxed to the "old" CBA salary lines. The max'es that are coming will be ridiculous.
Let me go back to 2028.29 as an example. The cap will be 51M more than the 2025.26 cap
The 2028.29 apron will be 65M more than the 2025.26

Orlando needs to "eat" a bad contact year for 2025.26 to ensure max flexibility in the primer years of the two forward. Which leads to ...

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I just really like you guys and don't want you to be confused or disappointed with where this team goes this offseason. It's either going to be some meh roster moves to switch out our role players, or a wow move that shakes up the foundation of the team but costs one of the big three. The money forces this unless the team goes deep into the tax to signal win now. If THAT happens, then wow I would be surprised because it would suggest this is an ownership group that is willing to spend money to contend in a title window (aka it ain't happening).

And-1

The Magic is not gonna trade for Garland or Young. And it is ridiculous to think that Orlando would bring in Antetokounmpo. It is mathematically impossible for a team to carry three max players in the new CBA. Full stop.

This off season will be only about trades. And trades that lower the salary line by 2-3M in that.

For example, Anfernee Simons at 27M means a trade that must include, for example, Anthony, Howard and Bitadze, or Caldwell-Pope and Howard.
Salaries gotta end with the Magic taking a shade less salary than sending out.
This is the MAX type of trade the Magic can do this offseason.

As an aside, this is another reason the Magic really don't want the #16. That pick will cost about 1M more in salary than a league min contract.
$3,685,300-rookie vs ~$2,500,000-LLE vet (depends on year's of service).

p.s. Jett Howard's $5,529,506 salary is painful this coming season. Dude's gotta go if only for bean-counting.