THE Aaron Gordon thread

[seeingstars]

He's not a poor finisher at the rim.

He's got dunks, floaters, reverse layups. A lot of his season slouching stats for finishing at the rim happened earlier in the year. He became more efficient as the year went on I believe. He became more comfortable reading the defense and has had a lot let's of his shots blocked. It's typical of guards to get creamed routinely at the rim early as rooks. See Victor 2 years ago.

[seeingstars]

42% isn't crazy but pretty normal for guards that enter the league, but he had two months of 45% and has very little offense outside of the paint, so something has to give. He's not a poor finisher. He's shown he can finish. Just has to do it more consistently, just like every guard that's came in recently.

Lol 42% is pretty **** bad

Chris Paul rookie year = 43
Oladipo rookie year = 41
Kidd = 38
Lillard = 42
John Wall = 40
Deron = 42
Parker = 41
Westbrook = 39
Kemba = 36

I can keep going lol. And I'm not saying he is a perfect finisher, he isn't .. but he's shown a nifty floater and some nice moves around the basket, but he obviously still missed some easy opportunities and got blocked at times. All of these players are different too as some obviously played the perimeter more and others didn't, but it's almost the same range regardless.

Just saying he has offense around the basket.

Or yeah what he said lol

[seeingstars]

Is this the Elfrid Payton thread?

Let's get this back on topic... Aaron Gordon... Better as a starting SF or starting PF? DEBATE!

I wish his # was 50.

Then AG could be SPF 50 never gets burned!!!!

[Skin]

Is this the Elfrid Payton thread?

Let's get this back on topic... Aaron Gordon... Better as a starting SF or starting PF? DEBATE!

I wish his # was 50.

Then AG could be SPF 50 never gets burned!!!!

[Skin]

AG is more suited to guard the Lebrons/Leonards/Durants of the league.

Stick Harris at the 4 and pray Skiles improves our team defense.

I believe this as well...

YOUR BEST POSITION DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU CAN BEST DEFEND.

AG just beats out Harris as a SF. Harris has a little more weight than Gordon to be able to handle bigger PFs and I still think the best Harris was the Harris that was here when he first arrived and played PF then. All those 30 point, 18 rebound, 2 blk games!

[seeingstars]

AG is more suited to guard the Lebrons/Leonards/Durants of the league.

Stick Harris at the 4 and pray Skiles improves our team defense.

I believe this as well...

YOUR BEST POSITION DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU CAN BEST DEFEND.

AG just beats out Harris as a SF. Harris has a little more weight than Gordon to be able to handle bigger PFs and I still think the best Harris was the Harris that was here when he first arrived and played PF then. All those 30 point, 18 rebound, 2 blk games!

Agreed. Post game, check

[MagicStarwipe]

Oh, NOW everyone wants to call him a SF? I feel like I should be using dr3's Steven A Smith emoticons right about now.

[Skin]

Oh, NOW everyone wants to call him a SF? I feel like I should be using dr3's Steven A Smith emoticons right about now.

I've always loved your sig.

My sig should say, "What does Justise Winslow do that Aaron Gordon can't?"

All throughout the draft process, I refused to believe that it was in our best interest to draft a SF. AG was that guy for me. I couldn't put Mario's name in that quote because his shooting was clearly an advantage. doh! But I wanted a big man BADLY. Still wonder what this team would be like had we drafted WCS. Probably will be holding onto that thought until we see what happens between Mario and WCS in their careers.

[Bensational]

Lol 42% is pretty **** bad

Chris Paul rookie year = 43
Oladipo rookie year = 41
Kidd = 38
Lillard = 42
John Wall = 40
Deron = 42
Parker = 41
Westbrook = 39
Kemba = 36

I can keep going lol. And I'm not saying he is a perfect finisher, he isn't .. but he's shown a nifty floater and some nice moves around the basket, but he obviously still missed some easy opportunities and got blocked at times. All of these players are different too as some obviously played the perimeter more and others didn't, but it's almost the same range regardless.

Just saying he has offense around the basket.

The question wasnt how he compared to other rookies overall it was how he fared overall to everyone.

there wasn't actually any question, there were just statements. one statement was that Payton is a bad finisher. in the context of "other developing PGs", you can see that he's starting out where plenty of other great PGs started. but if you choose to look through the context of "i'm a hater and i don't give a ****, i want him to be MVP right now or get off my teammmmmm!!!" then, sure, i guess you can say he sucks.

[tooler]

In an interesting article about why young players might be getting injured more often, Aaron Gordon spoke to incoming rookies about taking care of their bodies.

Magic forward Aaron Gordon recommended to the 2015-16 incoming rookie class to avoid thinking that their youth makes them invincible.

"When you're young, you feel good no matter what time of day it is," Gordon said. "AAU, you could have three games a day and you wouldn't need to stretch out. You could just go out there and roll the balls out and play.

"Now that you've got an 82-game season. You've really got to take care of your body and make sure the right muscles are firing. You learn a lot more about your body in this league."

Perhaps he's corrected some bad habits or mistakes and his injury risk will be lower this season. (Not that he was lazy or reckless about it; it sounds like young people aren't being taught the right things.)

[tiderulz]

Is this the Elfrid Payton thread?

Let's get this back on topic... Aaron Gordon... Better as a starting SF or starting PF? DEBATE!

I don't think there's much of a debate if his jumper is good. I thought he had the possibility of bulking up a bit and play PF but it doesn't look like AG agrees with that. Tobes better hit the gym a bit more and get ready for the PF spot.

why do we have to label? why cant we trot both out there and just call them Forwards?

[GANGSTERDOG]

Oh, NOW everyone wants to call him a SF? I feel like I should be using dr3's Steven A Smith emoticons right about now.

I know exactly how you feel..

[eyriq]

Chris Paul rookie year = 43
Oladipo rookie year = 41
Kidd = 38
Lillard = 42
John Wall = 40
Deron = 42
Parker = 41
Westbrook = 39
Kemba = 36

I can keep going lol. And I'm not saying he is a perfect finisher, he isn't .. but he's shown a nifty floater and some nice moves around the basket, but he obviously still missed some easy opportunities and got blocked at times. All of these players are different too as some obviously played the perimeter more and others didn't, but it's almost the same range regardless.

Just saying he has offense around the basket.

The question wasnt how he compared to other rookies overall it was how he fared overall to everyone.

there wasn't actually any question, there were just statements. one statement was that Payton is a bad finisher. in the context of "other developing PGs", you can see that he's starting out where plenty of other great PGs started. but if you choose to look through the context of "i'm a hater and i don't give a ****, i want him to be MVP right now or get off my teammmmmm!!!" then, sure, i guess you can say he sucks.

Wow finally this take is gaining traction. Common sense prevails!

[ivDT]

The question wasnt how he compared to other rookies overall it was how he fared overall to everyone.

there wasn't actually any question, there were just statements. one statement was that Payton is a bad finisher. in the context of "other developing PGs", you can see that he's starting out where plenty of other great PGs started. but if you choose to look through the context of "i'm a hater and i don't give a ****, i want him to be MVP right now or get off my teammmmmm!!!" then, sure, i guess you can say he sucks.

Wow finally this take is gaining traction. Common sense prevails!

hmph. let's see him try that at over at o.p.p...

[Neon1]

The question wasnt how he compared to other rookies overall it was how he fared overall to everyone.

there wasn't actually any question, there were just statements. one statement was that Payton is a bad finisher. in the context of "other developing PGs", you can see that he's starting out where plenty of other great PGs started. but if you choose to look through the context of "i'm a hater and i don't give a ****, i want him to be MVP right now or get off my teammmmmm!!!" then, sure, i guess you can say he sucks.

Wow finally this take is gaining traction. Common sense prevails!

This is not common sense at all.

In terms of analyzing shooting ability, you don't simply look at a FG% and conclude that all 43% are all created equal. If you could simply stop at FG% you could argue that Dwayne Dedmon is a better shooter then Mario Hezona, Channing Frye or Evan Fournier.

Elfrid Payton shot .425 overall. Payton shot only .435 on 2ptFGA while only shooting from an average distance of 6.9 feetfrom the rim. . That is uncharted territory for a player that logged that many minutes. Payton shot only 51.5% from 0-3 feet, which includes all his open transition layups and dunks (0-3ft gets inflated because of transition layups etc), so he had to have been absolutely abysmal in traffic for his at the rim to be that low.

Combining all that with his .551 FT% he is overall among the worst all around shooters of time among starting point guard. Look at the players listed (the first number is average shooting distance) who almost were really bad shooters also.

16.0 Dame Lillard - .469 on 2's, .368 on 3's, .844 on FT's.
15.5 Kemba Walker - .392 on 2's, .305 on 3's, .789 on FT's.
15.0 Deron Williams - .423 on 2's, .416 on 3's, .704 on FT's.
13.6 Jason Kidd - .433 on 2's, .272 on 3's, .698 on FT's.
12.7 Tony Parker - .460 on 2's, .323 on 3's, .675 on FT's.
12.4 Victor Oladipo - .448 on 2's, .327 on 3's, .780 on FT's.
11.3 Chris Paul - .464 on 2's, .282 on 3's, .847 on FT's.
11.0 John Wall - .425 on 2's, .296 on 3's, .766 on FT's.
10.6 Michael Carter Williams - .440 on 2's, .264 on 3's, .703 on FT's.
09.5 Russell Westbrook - .415 on 2's, .271 on 3's, .815 on FT's.
06.9 Elfrid Payton - .435 on 2's, .262 on 3's, .551 on FT's.

Trying to make the argument that Payton's shooting was simply par for the course is just as delusional as saying that I am as good of a sniper rifleman because I can hit a target from 10ft away while he is doing the same or at only a slightly better rate from 700ft.

[yoyojw17]

Hey guys, Sixers fan here. Just wondering if there were any off-season reports of Aaron Gordon selling his soul to the devil? Dude looks amazing...

Also, grats on your core of youngsters. Orlando is the only team I'm jealous of in the league. I watch your team's summer league highlights before I watch the Sixers', haha.

And1 for being funny.

I think you guys are on your way too. Embiid's injury seems like a nightmare so far, but I love what Noel is turning into. Give us Noel and we'll give you Tobias.

My biggest question mark was why did you let go of KJ McDaniels... Anyhow... thanks for chiming in.

Noel would be a dream come true! I love his game!!! and Philly does need a SF... DD

[OrlDave]

Oh, NOW everyone wants to call him a SF? I feel like I should be using dr3's Steven A Smith emoticons right about now.

He's a combo forward who can and WILL play both positions.

[OrlDave]

Imagine a 4/5 Pick-n-Pop with AG/Vuc and Fournier/Mario/Watson on the wings.

Elf needs to improve that shot, man. If he doesn't improve it by 3rd season....

Or what?
I really hope people don't start turning on Elf and giving him ultimatums just because he wasn't goat in summer league. We don't need to pigeonhole these guys into a specific time frame of improvement. I'm fine with the trajectory of Elf's development, even if he's not Curry shooting the ball he'll be an elite defender and playmaker and I'm fine with that. Not every player improves at the same rate.

the summer league hype fest has been something else around here

seeing improvement both statistically and through the eye test is nice but I've seen multiple people these past few days relegate elfrid to a bench role/giving an ultimatum. and i have no clue where people are forming these thoughts, other than his summer league performance.

Well after the beating Aaron took after last SL let the guy have some positive hype. It was so bad he had to go dunk on 5 foot white guys at a Pro Am to try and change the narrative

The big thing is he doesn't look like a deer in the headlights anymore and his shot looks improved. He's definitely much more confident in his game and himself.

[flying_mollusk]

there wasn't actually any question, there were just statements. one statement was that Payton is a bad finisher. in the context of "other developing PGs", you can see that he's starting out where plenty of other great PGs started. but if you choose to look through the context of "i'm a hater and i don't give a ****, i want him to be MVP right now or get off my teammmmmm!!!" then, sure, i guess you can say he sucks.

Wow finally this take is gaining traction. Common sense prevails!

This is not common sense at all.

In terms of analyzing shooting ability, you don't simply look at a FG% and conclude that all 43% are all created equal. If you could simply stop at FG% you could argue that Dwayne Dedmon is a better shooter then Mario Hezona, Channing Frye or Evan Fournier.

Elfrid Payton shot .425 overall. Payton shot only .435 on 2ptFGA while only shooting from an average distance of 6.9 feetfrom the rim. . That is uncharted territory for a player that logged that many minutes. Payton shot only 51.5% from 0-3 feet, which includes all his open transition layups and dunks (0-3ft gets inflated because of transition layups etc), so he had to have been absolutely abysmal in traffic for his at the rim to be that low.

Combining all that with his .551 FT% he is overall among the worst all around shooters of time among starting point guard. Look at the players listed (the first number is average shooting distance) who almost were really bad shooters also.

16.0 Dame Lillard - .469 on 2's, .368 on 3's, .844 on FT's.
15.5 Kemba Walker - .392 on 2's, .305 on 3's, .789 on FT's.
15.0 Deron Williams - .423 on 2's, .416 on 3's, .704 on FT's.
13.6 Jason Kidd - .433 on 2's, .272 on 3's, .698 on FT's.
12.7 Tony Parker - .460 on 2's, .323 on 3's, .675 on FT's.
12.4 Victor Oladipo - .448 on 2's, .327 on 3's, .780 on FT's.
11.3 Chris Paul - .464 on 2's, .282 on 3's, .847 on FT's.
11.0 John Wall - .425 on 2's, .296 on 3's, .766 on FT's.
10.6 Michael Carter Williams - .440 on 2's, .264 on 3's, .703 on FT's.
09.5 Russell Westbrook - .415 on 2's, .271 on 3's, .815 on FT's.
06.9 Elfrid Payton - .435 on 2's, .262 on 3's, .551 on FT's.

Trying to make the argument that Payton's shooting was simply par for the course is just as delusional as saying that I am as good of a sniper rifleman because I can hit a target from 10ft away while he is doing the same or at only a slightly better rate from 700ft.

Thats a pretty big exaggeration. Elf is doing better than rookie Westbrook while shooting 2.6 feet closer. He does better than rookie Wall while shooting 4 feet closer.

I think a conclusion can be drawn if you shoot marginally better at a target while being marginally closer than the other guy.

One other thing. Elf takes a lot more shots in the 3-10 range than rookies Westbrook, Wall and Kidd, and he shot better in that range than all of them. It seems like the criticism of Elf ignores that he is much better at pulling up close to the basket and hitting short floaters.

[Neon1]

Wow finally this take is gaining traction. Common sense prevails!

This is not common sense at all.

In terms of analyzing shooting ability, you don't simply look at a FG% and conclude that all 43% are all created equal. If you could simply stop at FG% you could argue that Dwayne Dedmon is a better shooter then Mario Hezona, Channing Frye or Evan Fournier.

Elfrid Payton shot .425 overall. Payton shot only .435 on 2ptFGA while only shooting from an average distance of 6.9 feetfrom the rim. . That is uncharted territory for a player that logged that many minutes. Payton shot only 51.5% from 0-3 feet, which includes all his open transition layups and dunks (0-3ft gets inflated because of transition layups etc), so he had to have been absolutely abysmal in traffic for his at the rim to be that low.

Combining all that with his .551 FT% he is overall among the worst all around shooters of time among starting point guard. Look at the players listed (the first number is average shooting distance) who almost were really bad shooters also.

16.0 Dame Lillard - .469 on 2's, .368 on 3's, .844 on FT's.
15.5 Kemba Walker - .392 on 2's, .305 on 3's, .789 on FT's.
15.0 Deron Williams - .423 on 2's, .416 on 3's, .704 on FT's.
13.6 Jason Kidd - .433 on 2's, .272 on 3's, .698 on FT's.
12.7 Tony Parker - .460 on 2's, .323 on 3's, .675 on FT's.
12.4 Victor Oladipo - .448 on 2's, .327 on 3's, .780 on FT's.
11.3 Chris Paul - .464 on 2's, .282 on 3's, .847 on FT's.
11.0 John Wall - .425 on 2's, .296 on 3's, .766 on FT's.
10.6 Michael Carter Williams - .440 on 2's, .264 on 3's, .703 on FT's.
09.5 Russell Westbrook - .415 on 2's, .271 on 3's, .815 on FT's.
06.9 Elfrid Payton - .435 on 2's, .262 on 3's, .551 on FT's.

Trying to make the argument that Payton's shooting was simply par for the course is just as delusional as saying that I am as good of a sniper rifleman because I can hit a target from 10ft away while he is doing the same or at only a slightly better rate from 700ft.

Thats a pretty big exaggeration. Elf is doing better than rookie Westbrook while shooting 2.6 feet closer. He does better than rookie Wall while shooting 4 feet closer.

I think a conclusion can be drawn if you shoot marginally better at a target while being marginally closer than the other guy.

One other thing. Elf takes a lot more shots in the 3-10 range than rookies Westbrook, Wall and Kidd, and he shot better in that range than all of them. It seems like the criticism of Elf ignores that he is much better at pulling up close to the basket and hitting short floaters.

[b][u]EDIT: I AM MOVING THIS TO THE ELF THREAD If you want to continue discussion.