2023-2024 Regular Season Game 4: Orlando Magic (2-1) at Los Angeles Clippers (2-1) - 10:30pm

[bigdogdylan5]

I’ll be happy for Fultz to be traded just to stop hearing his name as the scapegoat. It isn’t going to make Paolo magically learn to get to better spots or learn to pass the ball instead of forcing contact and then missing half his FTs.

Paolo has no business being a #1 right now. Franz absolutely does, because he’s a bonafide triple threat and he’s smart. I’m surprised nobody has acknowledged how much of Paolo’s offensive arsenal is just AG’s same old moves except Paolo gets the whistle for FTs more. He’s not growing into a winning offense that way.

That’s not me throwing the baby out with the bath water on Paolo, I’m just setting out firm expectations for someone who wants to be a #1, and it starts first of all by playing like one.

I am not arguing that if you take out Fultz then Paolo is all fixed… I am saying Fultz air balling of threes and now can’t hit a FT or mid range jumper does not help the situation. It feels like Paolo is getting all the blame for this. No one wants to acknowledge that offensively we have put him and Franz in a really tough spot but regardless he has leveled up as a defender the next step is making smarter decisions and having a counter to how teams have figured him out.

Do you know what also is kinda a big deal in this situation that nobody wants to talk about? Losing Tibbetts as he took a lot of the offensive load and it probably shouldn’t be a shock that offensively we’re not adjusting quickly.

[Bensational]

I’ll be happy for Fultz to be traded just to stop hearing his name as the scapegoat. It isn’t going to make Paolo magically learn to get to better spots or learn to pass the ball instead of forcing contact and then missing half his FTs.

Paolo has no business being a #1 right now. Franz absolutely does, because he’s a bonafide triple threat and he’s smart. I’m surprised nobody has acknowledged how much of Paolo’s offensive arsenal is just AG’s same old moves except Paolo gets the whistle for FTs more. He’s not growing into a winning offense that way.

That’s not me throwing the baby out with the bath water on Paolo, I’m just setting out firm expectations for someone who wants to be a #1, and it starts first of all by playing like one.

I am not arguing that if you take out Fultz then Paolo is all fixed… I am saying Fultz air balling of threes and now can’t hit a FT or mid range jumper does not help the situation. It feels like Paolo is getting all the blame for this. No one wants to acknowledge that offensively we have put him and Franz in a really tough spot but regardless he has leveled up as a defender the next step is making smarter decisions and having a counter to how teams have figured him out.

Do you know what also is kinda a big deal in this situation that nobody wants to talk about? Losing Tibbetts as he took a lot of the offensive load and it probably shouldn’t be a shock that offensively we’re not adjusting quickly.

I think it’s more that Paolo’s lack of ability to create has put him in this position. Franz still gets deep lane penetration and gets to the rim with exactly the same lineup. Paolo isn’t quick enough and he doesn’t have a quick change of direction or any shift to create space so he has to rely on pivots. If FVV, Scoot Henderson or D’Lo sagging off Fultz is enough to stop Paolo scoring in the post then he’s not elite at scoring in the post.

If we swapped Paolo for Tatum or Luka I don’t think they struggle like Paolo has been. He hasn’t shown the tools to be the offensive engine he needs to be, and that’s supposed to be his strength and the advanced part of his game.

[JoshuaPotter]

I’ll be happy for Fultz to be traded just to stop hearing his name as the scapegoat. It isn’t going to make Paolo magically learn to get to better spots or learn to pass the ball instead of forcing contact and then missing half his FTs.

Paolo has no business being a #1 right now. Franz absolutely does, because he’s a bonafide triple threat and he’s smart. I’m surprised nobody has acknowledged how much of Paolo’s offensive arsenal is just AG’s same old moves except Paolo gets the whistle for FTs more. He’s not growing into a winning offense that way.

That’s not me throwing the baby out with the bath water on Paolo, I’m just setting out firm expectations for someone who wants to be a #1, and it starts first of all by playing like one.

I am not arguing that if you take out Fultz then Paolo is all fixed… I am saying Fultz air balling of threes and now can’t hit a FT or mid range jumper does not help the situation. It feels like Paolo is getting all the blame for this. No one wants to acknowledge that offensively we have put him and Franz in a really tough spot but regardless he has leveled up as a defender the next step is making smarter decisions and having a counter to how teams have figured him out.

Do you know what also is kinda a big deal in this situation that nobody wants to talk about? Losing Tibbetts as he took a lot of the offensive load and it probably shouldn’t be a shock that offensively we’re not adjusting quickly.

I think it’s more that Paolo’s lack of ability to create has put him in this position. Franz still gets deep lane penetration and gets to the rim with exactly the same lineup. Paolo isn’t quick enough and he doesn’t have a quick change of direction or any shift to create space so he has to rely on pivots. If FVV, Scoot Henderson or D’Lo sagging off Fultz is enough to stop Paolo scoring in the post then he’s not elite at scoring in the post.

If we swapped Paolo for Tatum or Luka I don’t think they struggle like Paolo has been. He hasn’t shown the tools to be the offensive engine he needs to be, and that’s supposed to be his strength and the advanced part of his game.

Why stop here? Because you eye them as similar players?

There is a long long list of players above Paulo in this regard.

[thelead]

I've been supportive of Fultz for years but this was the year he needed to put it all together. The tape on the shoulder + not hitting 3's + not being aggressive enough + the airballed FT has put the nail in the coffin for me. I wanted to give it ~15 games but the shoulder looks completely f'ed up 4 games into the season. Love the kid's fight, I wish him nothing but the best but he can't be part of the future here. I'll be supportive of his play while here but if he's the starter next year (due to anything but a miraculous turn of events with his shoulder/shot), the FO will need to go.

[zaymon]

I've been supportive of Fultz for years but this was the year he needed to put it all together. The tape on the shoulder + not hitting 3's + not being aggressive enough + the airballed FT has put the nail in the coffin for me. I wanted to give it ~15 games but the shoulder looks completely f'ed up 4 games into the season. Love the kid's fight, I wish him nothing but the best but he can't be part of the future here. I'll be supportive of his play while here but if he's the starter next year (due to anything but a miraculous turn of events with his shoulder/shot), the FO will need to go.

There is nothing wrong with Fultz shoulder, he said it himself. The problem is in his head.

[thelead]

I've been supportive of Fultz for years but this was the year he needed to put it all together. The tape on the shoulder + not hitting 3's + not being aggressive enough + the airballed FT has put the nail in the coffin for me. I wanted to give it ~15 games but the shoulder looks completely f'ed up 4 games into the season. Love the kid's fight, I wish him nothing but the best but he can't be part of the future here. I'll be supportive of his play while here but if he's the starter next year (due to anything but a miraculous turn of events with his shoulder/shot), the FO will need to go.

There is nothing wrong with Fultz shoulder, he said it himself. The problem is in his head.

The tape on the shoulder says otherwise but I don't even care at this point. I was hoping to see an aggressive Markelle with some semblance of a 3pt shot that he exhibited a few times late last season. It's just not there and it's time to move on.

[Bensational]

If we swapped Paolo for Tatum or Luka I don’t think they struggle like Paolo has been. He hasn’t shown the tools to be the offensive engine he needs to be, and that’s supposed to be his strength and the advanced part of his game.

Why stop here? Because you eye them as similar players?

There is a long long list of players above Paulo in this regard.

No, they’re examples of legitimate lead options on contenders who can get buckets against anyone. That’s what we hope Paolo becomes, but he looks more like Julius Randle 2.0 right now.

[bigdogdylan5]

If we swapped Paolo for Tatum or Luka I don’t think they struggle like Paolo has been. He hasn’t shown the tools to be the offensive engine he needs to be, and that’s supposed to be his strength and the advanced part of his game.

Why stop here? Because you eye them as similar players?

There is a long long list of players above Paulo in this regard.

No, they’re examples of legitimate lead options on contenders who can get buckets against anyone. That’s what we hope Paolo becomes, but he looks more like Julius Randle 2.0 right now.

Ok I am not trying to be that guy but if you think he will be Julius Randle 2.0 you should trade him right now. Because his value around the league is more than that in potential. Of course no one would do that and exposes a lot of the BS moaning around here. I just feel like you always give Fultz the benefit of the doubt and focus on the positives but for Paolo it’s a focus on what he needs to improve. Fine you’re holding Paolo to a hire standard but he doesn’t have to be Luka.

[thelead]

Fultz isn't part of the core but I sure am happy as hell we don't have FVV on that ridiculous contract over here.

They’d be 3-1 with FVV in Fultz’s spot

You could say the same about a ton of other PG's making half of what FVV is making.

[Bensational]

Why stop here? Because you eye them as similar players?

There is a long long list of players above Paulo in this regard.

No, they’re examples of legitimate lead options on contenders who can get buckets against anyone. That’s what we hope Paolo becomes, but he looks more like Julius Randle 2.0 right now.

Ok I am not trying to be that guy but if you think he will be Julius Randle 2.0 you should trade him right now. Because his value around the league is more than that in potential. Of course no one would do that and exposes a lot of the BS moaning around here. I just feel like you always give Fultz the benefit of the doubt and focus on the positives but for Paolo it’s a focus on what he needs to improve. Fine you’re holding Paolo to a hire standard but he doesn’t have to be Luka.

If he’s going to be a franchise player then he needs to play like a franchise player - and they all have the ability to create their own offense and in turn create offense for others. Luka might seem like a lofty bar but being a top 10-15 player who can carry a team to contention is the kind of rarified air Paolo needs to be breathing.

I give Fultz leeway because I don’t expect him to be a franchise player, or even a top 3 player. Hearing Fultz get blamed for Paolo’s failures is like hearing AG wasn’t good enough to support Vuc. The blame/frustration/disappointment is landing at the feet of someone who isn’t supposed to be responsible for carrying the team. The person who is supposed to do that is free from accountability though.

I’m disappointed in Paolo’s development so far. Franz has continued to add tricks to his arsenal while Paolo has regressed. He’s worse this season as a perimeter playmaker and he hasn’t figured out how to dominate post ups yet. He’s not showing anything that others can build off of.

But - just because I’m aware and critical of these things doesn’t mean I’m calling for him to be traded. This is just live-tracking his development. These are the fundamental developments I need to see from him to confidently believe he can carry us deep into the playoffs.

[MasterGMer]

If we swapped Paolo for Tatum or Luka I don’t think they struggle like Paolo has been. He hasn’t shown the tools to be the offensive engine he needs to be, and that’s supposed to be his strength and the advanced part of his game.

Why stop here? Because you eye them as similar players?

There is a long long list of players above Paulo in this regard.

No, they’re examples of legitimate lead options on contenders who can get buckets against anyone. That’s what we hope Paolo becomes, but he looks more like Julius Randle 2.0 right now.

Luckily Paolo is only in his second year and how many years Julius Randle has been? Paolo's issue is his efficiency with shooting. But he is heck of a player creating fouls and getting to the hoop. However, that hasn't been as efficient right now, but it will. If Paolo were Julius Randle 2.0, we are not building the team around Paolo and Franz, period

[KillMonger]

Why stop here? Because you eye them as similar players?

There is a long long list of players above Paulo in this regard.

No, they’re examples of legitimate lead options on contenders who can get buckets against anyone. That’s what we hope Paolo becomes, but he looks more like Julius Randle 2.0 right now.

Luckily Paolo is only in his second year and how many years Julius Randle has been? Paolo's issue is his efficiency with shooting. But he is heck of a player creating fouls and getting to the hoop. However, that hasn't been as efficient right now, but it will. If Paolo were Julius Randle 2.0, we are not building the team around Paolo and Franz, period

agreed.....it's still really early, only game 5 out of 82

[Orlando Dawg]

This was a tough game because we learned that we still suck.

[bigdogdylan5]

No, they’re examples of legitimate lead options on contenders who can get buckets against anyone. That’s what we hope Paolo becomes, but he looks more like Julius Randle 2.0 right now.

Ok I am not trying to be that guy but if you think he will be Julius Randle 2.0 you should trade him right now. Because his value around the league is more than that in potential. Of course no one would do that and exposes a lot of the BS moaning around here. I just feel like you always give Fultz the benefit of the doubt and focus on the positives but for Paolo it’s a focus on what he needs to improve. Fine you’re holding Paolo to a hire standard but he doesn’t have to be Luka.

If he’s going to be a franchise player then he needs to play like a franchise player - and they all have the ability to create their own offense and in turn create offense for others. Luka might seem like a lofty bar but being a top 10-15 player who can carry a team to contention is the kind of rarified air Paolo needs to be breathing.

I give Fultz leeway because I don’t expect him to be a franchise player, or even a top 3 player. Hearing Fultz get blamed for Paolo’s failures is like hearing AG wasn’t good enough to support Vuc. The blame/frustration/disappointment is landing at the feet of someone who isn’t supposed to be responsible for carrying the team. The person who is supposed to do that is free from accountability though.

I’m disappointed in Paolo’s development so far. Franz has continued to add tricks to his arsenal while Paolo has regressed. He’s worse this season as a perimeter playmaker and he hasn’t figured out how to dominate post ups yet. He’s not showing anything that others can build off of.

But - just because I’m aware and critical of these things doesn’t mean I’m calling for him to be traded. This is just live-tracking his development. These are the fundamental developments I need to see from him to confidently believe he can carry us deep into the playoffs.

My problem with this “live tracking” is he is a kid that turns 21 in like a week. He isn’t shooting well and teams have figured out a way to defend him. Yes he needs to evolve but expecting that to happen overnight is ludicrous. Especially when our coaching staff is putting such an emphasis on defense this year. Mosley wants to set a defensive standard because unlike all the people having live meltdowns after every loss he wants to set a defensive standard of effort first. You can argue that is the correct way to go but it’s not flashy.

Hell this extends to Fultz too… maybe they are both in shooting slumps and they will be fine in a week or so. Christ we are 2-2 with our early schedule everyone would have signed up for that in a heart beat. It’s maddening that we have the 1st or 2nd ranked defense and we had back to back contending coaches compliment our defensive effort from such a young team but still it’s “Paolo and Fultz can’t shoot” and “Suggs sucks on offense”. Everyone on this team is busting their ass…

[Skybox]

Ok I am not trying to be that guy but if you think he will be Julius Randle 2.0 you should trade him right now. Because his value around the league is more than that in potential. Of course no one would do that and exposes a lot of the BS moaning around here. I just feel like you always give Fultz the benefit of the doubt and focus on the positives but for Paolo it’s a focus on what he needs to improve. Fine you’re holding Paolo to a hire standard but he doesn’t have to be Luka.

If he’s going to be a franchise player then he needs to play like a franchise player - and they all have the ability to create their own offense and in turn create offense for others. Luka might seem like a lofty bar but being a top 10-15 player who can carry a team to contention is the kind of rarified air Paolo needs to be breathing.

I give Fultz leeway because I don’t expect him to be a franchise player, or even a top 3 player. Hearing Fultz get blamed for Paolo’s failures is like hearing AG wasn’t good enough to support Vuc. The blame/frustration/disappointment is landing at the feet of someone who isn’t supposed to be responsible for carrying the team. The person who is supposed to do that is free from accountability though.

I’m disappointed in Paolo’s development so far. Franz has continued to add tricks to his arsenal while Paolo has regressed. He’s worse this season as a perimeter playmaker and he hasn’t figured out how to dominate post ups yet. He’s not showing anything that others can build off of.

But - just because I’m aware and critical of these things doesn’t mean I’m calling for him to be traded. This is just live-tracking his development. These are the fundamental developments I need to see from him to confidently believe he can carry us deep into the playoffs.

My problem with this “live tracking” is he is a kid that turns 21 in like a week. He isn’t shooting well and teams have figured out a way to defend him. Yes he needs to evolve but expecting that to happen overnight is ludicrous. Especially when our coaching staff is putting such an emphasis on defense this year. Mosley wants to set a defensive standard because unlike all the people having live meltdowns after every loss he wants to set a defensive standard of effort first. You can argue that is the correct way to go but it’s not flashy.

Hell this extends to Fultz too… maybe they are both in shooting slumps and they will be fine in a week or so. Christ we are 2-2 with our early schedule everyone would have signed up for that in a heart beat. It’s maddening that we have the 1st or 2nd ranked defense and we had back to back contending coaches compliment our defensive effort from such a young team but still it’s “Paolo and Fultz can’t shoot” and “Suggs sucks on offense”. Everyone on this team is busting their ass…

When does a career trend not get called a "shooting slump"?

[bigdogdylan5]

When does a career trend not get called a "shooting slump"?

Are you talking about Fultz or Banchero? Fultz I think unfortunately the bell is ringing and is a career trend. Even if it is a slump his form has regressed so I don’t think he can be trusted any longer whether it’s his shoulder or in his head he is 7 years in the league.

For Paolo he is nowhere near what he can be. I think his defense has improved which I think was a focus point for him. I don’t get the panic about him, again not even 21 yet and asked to be a 1 or 2 option. I think people expecting him to be year 2 Luka need to adjust their expectations. Teams are game planning him well. He needs to shoot better so teams will respect that but I probably won’t panic till like next year.

[Bergmaniac]

Of course Paolo is the one most responsible for his shooting struggles. But part of any PG's job is to make it easier for his teammates to score and Fultz is clearly not doing it for Paolo. And this is not just this year. Last year Paolo shot 33.8% on two-pointers after passes from Fultz. 33.8%. How many easy buckets he's gotten from Fultz passes? Very, very few from my recollection and most of these were in transition. Almost all of Paolo's shots after Fultz passes are ones where he has to create everything after getting the ball at the 3 point line with a defender in positioon prepared for him. And of course Fultz's presense is bad for our spacing when Paolo tries to drive.

And no, I am not saying Fultz is the only problem, far from it. He does a lot of things very well. But he is a poor fit with Paolo and focusing just on our top players and ignoring everything else is not a good analysis.

[JoshuaPotter]

Hell this extends to Fultz too… maybe they are both in shooting slumps and they will be fine in a week or so. Christ we are 2-2 with our early schedule everyone would have signed up for that in a heart beat. It’s maddening that we have the 1st or 2nd ranked defense and we had back to back contending coaches compliment our defensive effort from such a young team but still it’s “Paolo and Fultz can’t shoot” and “Suggs sucks on offense”. Everyone on this team is busting their ass…

Count me in a similar camp to you. It is obvious that this is the direction we were headed and are still headed until further notice and see if the offense comes. I am not saying it was always the plan, the pieces though seem to have synergy.

[basketballRob]

Paolo has no legs.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[ibraheim718]

Thinking about the Fultz shoulder issues they very well could just have been caused by his mechanics and the repetition of trying to become a better shooter. I still think they try and move him before the deadline and move Cole into the SL and Black backs him up to manage the game flanked by Harris and Jett eventually.