2023-2024 Regular Season Game 50: Orlando Magic (26-23) at Detroit Pistons (6-42) - 3pm

[basketballRob]

Goga iis theoretically "better" if we have a floor spacing PG, but we don't. Fultz doesn't even attempt shots, Black may get there but he's still a spot up guy and has no gravity yet which is why he's open a lot. Cole's shot has fallen off of a cliff and is too small.

Wendell isn't the ideal future C, but you absolutely can't start Goga with basically any of our current PGs until we make a trade. Can't have no spacing/threat from PG/C and then have Franz struggling a bit this year, with Suggs and Paolo being streaky too.

I'd probably start Harris and Goga for the first 6 minutes every game. Then bring Fultz and Black off the bench. Cole needs to sit out for a while and get healthy. Carter could play the second 6 minutes if the first and 3rd quarters.

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[drsd]

What foul ?!?!?

F-Wagner went out of his way to blame himself over the refs for all the non-calls. I guess he likes his money!

[basketballRob]

What foul ?!?!?

F-Wagner went out of his way to blame himself over the refs for all the non-calls. I guess he likes his money!

He said he needed to get better at seeking contact after someone asked him. He really didn't get fouled, he was getting open layups.

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[ORLMagicGirl15]

What foul ?!?!?

F-Wagner went out of his way to blame himself over the refs for all the non-calls. I guess he likes his money!

He said he needed to get better at seeking contact after someone asked him. He really didn't get fouled, he was getting open layups.

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Haha number 23’s hand is on Franz head. He got fouled.

[basketballRob]

I think part of the reason we aren't playing Goga is to keep him hidden. It's better to feature the players that are under contract next season.

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[lt175]

Goga iis theoretically "better" if we have a floor spacing PG, but we don't. Fultz doesn't even attempt shots, Black may get there but he's still a spot up guy and has no gravity yet which is why he's open a lot. Cole's shot has fallen off of a cliff and is too small.

Wendell isn't the ideal future C, but you absolutely can't start Goga with basically any of our current PGs until we make a trade. Can't have no spacing/threat from PG/C and then have Franz struggling a bit this year, with Suggs and Paolo being streaky too.

I understand but your defense is weaker. Bitadze helps a lot on that side of the court. Much more than Wendell.
Honestly if there's not a PG that can floor the space, just put Garry Harris in the backcourt with Jalen Suggs.
Banchero, Wagner and Suggs can handle the creation half-court. The Magic doesn't necessary need a creator at PG.
I know that Harris is not a sniper and is a little bit streaky but it's still a better solution than Fultz or Black.
Plus with Joe Ingles on the bench, you can take a risk and start Harris.
It's not like the Magic would be a contender for the title with Goga but I just think the team would be a little bit better.

[tooler]

Honestly if there's not a PG that can floor the space, just put Garry Harris in the backcourt with Jalen Suggs.
Banchero, Wagner and Suggs can handle the creation half-court. The Magic doesn't necessary need a creator at PG.

I wonder if they'll come up with a phantom injury for Fultz at some point and sit him to play this lineup instead. Make one serious push for the playoffs and let Fultz quietly hide his chronic injury.

The thing is, they might actually appreciate his "veteran poise" to settle the team in the playoffs. But if he's ignored on court then it won't mean much. They'd be better off letting the young team figure it out 4 on 4 while Gary sits in the corner.

[drsd]

He said he needed to get better at seeking contact after someone asked him.

Not exactly. What I took was that he needs to illustrate that he was fouled better to the refs. He unambiguosly stated in his presser that i) there was A LOT of contact, and ii) it wasn't the refs fault that fouls weren't called (i.e. please don't fine me).

He really didn't get fouled, he was getting open layups.

Yes the Pistons played horrible, matador defense. But F-Wagner and Banchero were mauled in this game.

It was poorly reffed. I cannot come to any other conclusion. But (for this game): so what. The Magic won and covered. Good enough for me.

[VFX]

Serious question…

Is Black injured or something? Why is our rookie not getting minutes against the worst team in the league?

Are you going to tell me Black, Howard, and Houstan couldn’t get minutes in this one but we needed Fultz to play 25 minutes of 4 on 5 basketball?

Weltman better **** do something because this is ridiculous.

[SOUL]

It's not like the Magic would be a contender for the title with Goga but I just think the team would be a little bit better.

I feel like WCJ is getting unfairly grouped into the starting lineup being bad when it hasn't been that bad and Fultz is the obvious person to upgrade. Wendell can switch a bit and is an underrated defender imo. Not a shot blocker or an inside threat compared to Goga, but Goga can also be exploited too. I want Goga to get playing time but I'd rather it be at the expense of Moe when he's not defending or playing for WCJ when he's struggling too.

I just don't think the need to get marginally better on defense where we're already pretty good (top 4-5 in the league) is worth it if the spacing suffers.

I think Harris will be traded tbh. TBH if we are really serious about defense.. we would just start Isaac but his minutes still cant get there yet.

Advanced lineups btw has our current starting lineup being +11 in rating , with the 2nd most minutes in lineups (180 minutes)

Fultz/WCJ/Franz/Suggs/Banchero - 111 OFF/100.8 DEF (180 min)
Black/Goga/Franz/Suggs/Banchero - 111 OFF / 105 DEF (253 min)

TBH our guys haven't been healthy enough to get much data on a lot of lineups, but yeah. Rob and whoever keep saying "this starting lineup is bad" or "they don't work together" is just incorrect, it 's basically slightly better than the AB/Goga one, although with the same minutes, it could be around the same or still better.

That being said, I feel like upgrading Fultz can make it even better.

[SOUL]

Serious question…

Is Black injured or something? Why is our rookie not getting minutes against the worst team in the league?

Are you going to tell me Black, Howard, and Houstan couldn’t get minutes in this one but we needed Fultz to play 25 minutes of 4 on 5 basketball?

Weltman better **** do something because this is ridiculous.

Yeah, play more young guys and lets lose some more!

*doesn't mean I think Fultz shouldn't be moved and that our lineups shouldn't include AB, but constantly complaining for rookie draft picks to play is losing sight of this team being to compete now and even uninspiring vets are more helpful.. which shows we should try to upgrade where we can.

[basketballRob]

We could start Isaac, but the second unit needs rim protection. I'm not how Goga and Moe would look.

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[SOUL]

I don't think the team is confident at all in Fultz TOS or whatever is causing him to not even attempt threes this year while his hitch is back. The writing seems to be on the wall for the PG spot being the most pertinent upgrade, but I also don't think Atlanta wants to just send Murray in division without wanting someone we don't want to give up. Could definitely see like CP3/Tyus or something though. Hopefully they do something.

I could see AB getting more minutes with a trade deadline move, but really doubt they're going to rely on Jett at all this year for big minutes. Houstan got a chance and didn't really take advantage of it, but decent in spots if he's getting the volume. It's just very easy to say we should be playing all of our 1st/2nd year talent but also demand winning.. well.. there's reasons why teams don't do that. Like I said, only OKC with a redshirted Chet/Cason with an MVP in Shai and Houston (mixed bag) seem willing to give extended minutes to 2 rookies with any regularity.

[VFX]

Serious question…

Is Black injured or something? Why is our rookie not getting minutes against the worst team in the league?

Are you going to tell me Black, Howard, and Houstan couldn’t get minutes in this one but we needed Fultz to play 25 minutes of 4 on 5 basketball?

Weltman better **** do something because this is ridiculous.

Yeah, play more young guys and lets lose some more!

*doesn't mean I think Fultz shouldn't be moved and that our lineups shouldn't include AB, but constantly complaining for rookie draft picks to play is losing sight of this team being to compete now and even uninspiring vets are more helpful.. which shows we should try to upgrade where we can.

How do you equate playing youth to losses? Nobody is suggesting not playing Franz, Paolo, and Suggs.

You make it sound like Detroit is fielding a team of savvy vets that can close out games correctly.

I like how AB is starting for a 9 game win streak and the takeaway for not playing him against Detroit instead of Fultz is… yOu wAnT tO lOsE?!? Spare me. It’s exactly the game he should be playing against sub-par nba talent.

[JoshuaPotter]

Serious question…

Is Black injured or something? Why is our rookie not getting minutes against the worst team in the league?

Are you going to tell me Black, Howard, and Houstan couldn’t get minutes in this one but we needed Fultz to play 25 minutes of 4 on 5 basketball?

Weltman better **** do something because this is ridiculous.

Yeah, play more young guys and lets lose some more!

*doesn't mean I think Fultz shouldn't be moved and that our lineups shouldn't include AB, but constantly complaining for rookie draft picks to play is losing sight of this team being to compete now and even uninspiring vets are more helpful.. which shows we should try to upgrade where we can.

How do you equate playing youth to losses? Nobody is suggesting not playing Franz, Paolo, and Suggs.

You make it sound like Detroit is fielding a team of savvy vets that can close out games correctly.

I like how AB is starting for a 9 game win streak and the takeaway for not playing him against Detroit instead of Fultz is… yOu wAnT tO lOsE?!? Spare me. It’s exactly the game he should be playing against sub-par nba talent.

Black is back to purgatory. Which is where he would have been had management known how to sign players that aren't constantly injured. It's obvious even if it isn't ideal.

[JoshuaPotter]

So something bugging me from the last couple of wins.

Clearly we know who are 1/2 punch is. Yet also clearly we are holding auditions for our 3rd best scorer still?

Got 4 guys who are 12ppg guys and one of them seems to get hot each night. Maybe it is injury and inconsistent minutes / lack of a clearly defined role for anyone except Paolo / Franz but I was hoping by now looking at the stats that someone would be 13ppg.

This means I wasn't paying attention and I honestly do not know how to take it because there has just been so much instability from the roster. It's not like I want to blame Black for Fultz scoring less then 10ppg when that clearly is Fultz issue.

[eyriq]

So something bugging me from the last couple of wins.

Clearly we know who are 1/2 punch is. Yet also clearly we are holding auditions for our 3rd best scorer still?

Got 4 guys who are 12ppg guys and one of them seems to get hot each night. Maybe it is injury and inconsistent minutes / lack of a clearly defined role for anyone except Paolo / Franz but I was hoping by now looking at the stats that someone would be 13ppg.

This means I wasn't paying attention and I honestly do not know how to take it because there has just been so much instability from the roster. It's not like I want to blame Black for Fultz scoring less then 10ppg when that clearly is Fultz issue.

It is mildly concerning that Suggs hasn't clearly grabbed the 3rd option role by the horns. Need him to consistently get 30+ mpg and be 3rd in FGA.

[VFX]

So something bugging me from the last couple of wins.

Clearly we know who are 1/2 punch is. Yet also clearly we are holding auditions for our 3rd best scorer still?

Got 4 guys who are 12ppg guys and one of them seems to get hot each night. Maybe it is injury and inconsistent minutes / lack of a clearly defined role for anyone except Paolo / Franz but I was hoping by now looking at the stats that someone would be 13ppg.

This means I wasn't paying attention and I honestly do not know how to take it because there has just been so much instability from the roster. It's not like I want to blame Black for Fultz scoring less then 10ppg when that clearly is Fultz issue.

Suggs was scoring pretty well in the beginning of this game until Mosely benched him for the amazing Cole/Ingles/Moe lineup that was super effective (it wasn’t). Gary Harris also started shooting the basketball well for the first time in 5 games toward the end and they just keep going back to him.

Between Fultz, Cole, Gary, and Suggs nobody is going to see more than 28mpg. Keep in mind that’s WITHOUT playing Black or Houstan a single minute.

[Fortune Teller]

So something bugging me from the last couple of wins.

Clearly we know who are 1/2 punch is. Yet also clearly we are holding auditions for our 3rd best scorer still?

Got 4 guys who are 12ppg guys and one of them seems to get hot each night. Maybe it is injury and inconsistent minutes / lack of a clearly defined role for anyone except Paolo / Franz but I was hoping by now looking at the stats that someone would be 13ppg.

This means I wasn't paying attention and I honestly do not know how to take it because there has just been so much instability from the roster. It's not like I want to blame Black for Fultz scoring less then 10ppg when that clearly is Fultz issue.

That guy isn't on the team right now and Welt is reluctant to give up any of his mediocre assets to get him. Instead he waits years for Isaac to be healthy, Fultz to get out of his own head, Cole to be consistent, Chuma to be good enough to play in the NBA, and Suggs to resemble a #5 pick in a loaded draft.

[eyriq]

So something bugging me from the last couple of wins.

Clearly we know who are 1/2 punch is. Yet also clearly we are holding auditions for our 3rd best scorer still?

Got 4 guys who are 12ppg guys and one of them seems to get hot each night. Maybe it is injury and inconsistent minutes / lack of a clearly defined role for anyone except Paolo / Franz but I was hoping by now looking at the stats that someone would be 13ppg.

This means I wasn't paying attention and I honestly do not know how to take it because there has just been so much instability from the roster. It's not like I want to blame Black for Fultz scoring less then 10ppg when that clearly is Fultz issue.

Suggs was scoring pretty well in the beginning of this game until Mosely benched him for the amazing Cole/Ingles/Moe lineup that was super effective (it wasn’t). Gary Harris also started shooting the basketball well for the first time in 5 games toward the end and they just keep going back to him.

It's more on Mosley and rotations than Suggs from my POV. He seems slow to hand the reigns fully over to Suggs under the watchful eyes of Fultz and WCJ. This team's politics aren't toxic but they are a bit nauseating.