FIRE WELTMAN

[eyriq]

But surely you can complain about the Bamba pick? Can you complain about the JI pick? The Okeke pick? Can you complain about the 2 year delay in the teardown? Can you complain about no good PG in 8 years? Can you complain about holding on to non-fitting players too long? Can you complain about not getting any value back for non-fitting players? Can you complain about missing out on FVV? Can you complain about signing KCP and then burning a pick to sell him a year later?

All GMs make mistakes. But this GM, in addition to some mistakes, has shown zero ability to be innovative in the trade market, too much inertia in evaluating and then developing the roster and a reluctance to get off of mistakes at something close to breakeven, preferring to pretend they weren't mistakes at all.

Sure, you can complain about all of those things. Every front office has a trail of misses and imperfect timing. But you have to weigh that against the overall trajectory, and on that front, it’s hard to argue with the results. He landed Paolo and Franz. He built a top-five defense. He’s managed the cap responsibly and preserved long-term flexibility. He just used draft capital to acquire Bane and pivoted into win-now mode as the core enters their second contracts.

You call it inertia. I see a disciplined timeline. He didn’t chase marginal upgrades that would’ve blocked development reps. He let the young core grow, then made the move when it mattered. That’s not pretending mistakes didn’t happen, that’s operating with a long view.

The issue isn’t that he’s made mistakes. It’s that people treat those mistakes like they outweigh everything else, and they don’t.

Don’t hurt yourself jumping through hoops to justify the lack of moves over the last 4 seasons.

Want to give a golf clap to Weltman for the last 4 weeks? Go for it. He’s done some good work I’ll admit it! He nailed two important drafts also.

Want to give him praise for the last 4 years plus? Only a handful of people here (the biggest homers imaginable) believe this was 7-D chess and not “holy **** I have to make a move now or we are cooked. KCP really backfired”.

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

[BadMofoPimp]

Sure, you can complain about all of those things. Every front office has a trail of misses and imperfect timing. But you have to weigh that against the overall trajectory, and on that front, it’s hard to argue with the results. He landed Paolo and Franz. He built a top-five defense. He’s managed the cap responsibly and preserved long-term flexibility. He just used draft capital to acquire Bane and pivoted into win-now mode as the core enters their second contracts.

You call it inertia. I see a disciplined timeline. He didn’t chase marginal upgrades that would’ve blocked development reps. He let the young core grow, then made the move when it mattered. That’s not pretending mistakes didn’t happen, that’s operating with a long view.

The issue isn’t that he’s made mistakes. It’s that people treat those mistakes like they outweigh everything else, and they don’t.

Don’t hurt yourself jumping through hoops to justify the lack of moves over the last 4 seasons.

Want to give a golf clap to Weltman for the last 4 weeks? Go for it. He’s done some good work I’ll admit it! He nailed two important drafts also.

Want to give him praise for the last 4 years plus? Only a handful of people here (the biggest homers imaginable) believe this was 7-D chess and not “holy **** I have to make a move now or we are cooked. KCP really backfired”.

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

Eyriq provin em all wrong!!!

[Fortune Teller]

Sure, you can complain about all of those things. Every front office has a trail of misses and imperfect timing. But you have to weigh that against the overall trajectory, and on that front, it’s hard to argue with the results. He landed Paolo and Franz. He built a top-five defense. He’s managed the cap responsibly and preserved long-term flexibility. He just used draft capital to acquire Bane and pivoted into win-now mode as the core enters their second contracts.

You call it inertia. I see a disciplined timeline. He didn’t chase marginal upgrades that would’ve blocked development reps. He let the young core grow, then made the move when it mattered. That’s not pretending mistakes didn’t happen, that’s operating with a long view.

The issue isn’t that he’s made mistakes. It’s that people treat those mistakes like they outweigh everything else, and they don’t.

Don’t hurt yourself jumping through hoops to justify the lack of moves over the last 4 seasons.

Want to give a golf clap to Weltman for the last 4 weeks? Go for it. He’s done some good work I’ll admit it! He nailed two important drafts also.

Want to give him praise for the last 4 years plus? Only a handful of people here (the biggest homers imaginable) believe this was 7-D chess and not “holy **** I have to make a move now or we are cooked. KCP really backfired”.

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

"But you have to weigh that against the overall trajectory, and on that front, it’s hard to argue with the results."

The trajectory over the past 8 years? These results?

2017-18 25-57
2018-19 42-40
2019-20 33-40
2020-21 21-51
2021-22 22-60
2022-23 34-48
2023-24 47-35
2024-25 41-41

Total 265-372 (41.6%)

4 out of Jeff's 8 seasons the team posted a lower win total than the previous year, including this past season.

They've never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs.

He's on his third head coach while his job has remained intact.

They've been bottom 6 in the NBA in offense every single year he's been here, never finishing higher than 24 out of 30 teams.

They've been bottom 6 in the NBA in 3PT% in 7 out of his 8 years, including dead last in 24-25.

I'm glad he finally woke up this summer but in truth he didn't have much choice. From an offensive perspective his roster had regressed to a league-wide joke, his big free agent haul from last summer was an unequivocal bust, and his star player was beginning to voice his frustration. So he overpaid for Desmond Bane and finally, reluctantly signed a point guard. Ok, good, glad he did his job. But at the end of the day all that matters is the W-L record so we'll see how this season works out. Maybe his 9-year plan to advance past the first round of the playoffs will finally materialize and your patience will be rewarded.

[bigdogdylan5]

Some people on this board will refuse to give Weltman credit for anything. I am not saying you have to call him best GM to ever walk the planet. I am convinced we could win the championship and the day after these people will immediately say we won a championship in spite of Weltman. I don’t know what it is I suspect it’s just different basketball tastes. They would rather see a dynamic offensive team than the defensive one we have built. I will never understand the point guard thing. If we reach the full potential with Paolo and Franz they will have to take leaps and our championship differentiator will be them able to run our offense through them and them being as big as they are. The offseason for me was absolutely perfect. Bane was always top of my list to target. The other two guys were probably not obtainable and way more expensive. I think Bane is one of the best quality player we can fit out trading Paolo or Franz. Also getting a spot fill point guard to take pressure off till Franz and Paolo take those next steps was right on. Will see if it works out but Weltman does deserve credit for what he has built imo.

[bigdogdylan5]

Don’t hurt yourself jumping through hoops to justify the lack of moves over the last 4 seasons.

Want to give a golf clap to Weltman for the last 4 weeks? Go for it. He’s done some good work I’ll admit it! He nailed two important drafts also.

Want to give him praise for the last 4 years plus? Only a handful of people here (the biggest homers imaginable) believe this was 7-D chess and not “holy **** I have to make a move now or we are cooked. KCP really backfired”.

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

"But you have to weigh that against the overall trajectory, and on that front, it’s hard to argue with the results."

The trajectory over the past 8 years? These results?

2017-18 25-57
2018-19 42-40
2019-20 33-40
2020-21 21-51
2021-22 22-60
2022-23 34-48
2023-24 47-35
2024-25 41-41

Total 265-372 (41.6%)

4 out of Jeff's 8 seasons the team posted a lower win total than the previous year, including this past season.

They've never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs.

He's on his third head coach while his job has remained intact.

They've been bottom 6 in the NBA in offense every single year he's been here, never finishing higher than 24 out of 30 teams.

They've been bottom 6 in the NBA in 3PT% in 7 out of his 8 years, including dead last in 24-25.

I'm glad he finally woke up this summer but in truth he didn't have much choice. From an offensive perspective his roster had regressed to a league-wide joke, his big free agent haul from last summer was an unequivocal bust, and his star player was beginning to voice his frustration. So he overpaid for Desmond Bane and finally, reluctantly signed a point guard. Ok, good, glad he did his job. But at the end of the day all that matters is the W-L record so we'll see how this season works out. Maybe his 9-year plan to advance past the first round of the playoffs will finally materialize and your patience will be rewarded.

At least Pepe make actual arguments and good points. You just come off as a petulant and whiny.

[VFX]

Some people on this board will refuse to give Weltman credit for anything. I am not saying you have to call him best GM to ever walk the planet. I am convinced we could win the championship and the day after these people will immediately say we won a championship in spite of Weltman. I don’t know what it is I suspect it’s just different basketball tastes. They would rather see a dynamic offensive team than the defensive one we have built. I will never understand the point guard thing. If we reach the full potential with Paolo and Franz they will have to take leaps and our championship differentiator will be them able to run our offense through them and them being as big as they are. The offseason for me was absolutely perfect. Bane was always top of my list to target. The other two guys were probably not obtainable and way more expensive. I think Bane is one of the best quality player we can fit out trading Paolo or Franz. Also getting a spot fill point guard to take pressure off till Franz and Paolo take those next steps was right on. Will see if it works out but Weltman does deserve credit for what he has built imo.

Who is refusing to give him credit?

The Bane deal was good.
Drafting Paolo, Franz, and Suggs were great.
Moving on from KCP was good and essential.
Signing Tyus was a great move.

I’m being completely honest with those decisions. I’m giving him credit where credit is due. We will see how it all pans out.

I’m just not going to pretend throughout Weltmans tenure that he deserves credit for inactivity because homers want to attribute a theoretical timeline to his inactions. Thats not how things work because it’s convenient to your argument now in a three week window.

If people want to pretend no decisions needed to be made for the last 4 seasons that’s fine. Being upset that people don’t necessarily BUY that theory is just kind of a weird Reddit brained argument.

Both things can be true.

[VFX]

Sure, you can complain about all of those things. Every front office has a trail of misses and imperfect timing. But you have to weigh that against the overall trajectory, and on that front, it’s hard to argue with the results. He landed Paolo and Franz. He built a top-five defense. He’s managed the cap responsibly and preserved long-term flexibility. He just used draft capital to acquire Bane and pivoted into win-now mode as the core enters their second contracts.

You call it inertia. I see a disciplined timeline. He didn’t chase marginal upgrades that would’ve blocked development reps. He let the young core grow, then made the move when it mattered. That’s not pretending mistakes didn’t happen, that’s operating with a long view.

The issue isn’t that he’s made mistakes. It’s that people treat those mistakes like they outweigh everything else, and they don’t.

Don’t hurt yourself jumping through hoops to justify the lack of moves over the last 4 seasons.

Want to give a golf clap to Weltman for the last 4 weeks? Go for it. He’s done some good work I’ll admit it! He nailed two important drafts also.

Want to give him praise for the last 4 years plus? Only a handful of people here (the biggest homers imaginable) believe this was 7-D chess and not “holy **** I have to make a move now or we are cooked. KCP really backfired”.

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

Oh yeah! it’s not 7-D chess!

It’s totally perfectly timed to this offseason! He was lying in wait for the perfect opportunity to move KCP to the Grizzlies when his contract was up after this offseason!

What assets did he accumulate outside of the three main guys? Goga is it. He had to move a first for his first decision he made last season.

This is like arguing Anthony Black sucks but it’s all intended because his skillset matches with Franz and Paolo so it doesn’t matter.

Semantics. Jumping through hoops. Homerism.
Wipe your mouth when you are done.

[eyriq]

Don’t hurt yourself jumping through hoops to justify the lack of moves over the last 4 seasons.

Want to give a golf clap to Weltman for the last 4 weeks? Go for it. He’s done some good work I’ll admit it! He nailed two important drafts also.

Want to give him praise for the last 4 years plus? Only a handful of people here (the biggest homers imaginable) believe this was 7-D chess and not “holy **** I have to make a move now or we are cooked. KCP really backfired”.

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

Oh yeah! it’s not 7-D chess!

It’s totally perfectly timed to this offseason! He was lying in wait for the perfect opportunity to move KCP to the Grizzlies when his contract was up after this offseason!

This is like arguing Anthony Black sucks but it’s all intended because his skillset matches with Franz and Paolo so it doesn’t matter.

Semantics. Jumping through hoops. Homerism.
Wipe your mouth when you are done.

Timing a rebuild around the contract maturation of your franchise players is roster construction 101.

And I have no idea where that AB comment came from. I’d never argue he sucks. You’re swinging at ghosts.

[VFX]

The only justification that matters is the rebuild timeline and understanding what mattered most at each phase.

This wasn’t 7-D chess. It was a disciplined, phased approach. Tear down, accumulate assets, develop talent, then pivot when the core is ready. That’s what we’re seeing now with the Bane trade and Tyus signing.

People call the patience a mistake because they’re judging each season in isolation. But nothing in the last four years broke the build. The core was developing. The cap stayed clean. The flexibility was preserved.

You can nitpick a few picks or extensions, but the overall plan has been sound. Weltman rebuilt from zero, landed two franchise guys, and is now making his move. That’s not scrambling. That’s timing.

Oh yeah! it’s not 7-D chess!

It’s totally perfectly timed to this offseason! He was lying in wait for the perfect opportunity to move KCP to the Grizzlies when his contract was up after this offseason!

This is like arguing Anthony Black sucks but it’s all intended because his skillset matches with Franz and Paolo so it doesn’t matter.

Semantics. Jumping through hoops. Homerism.
Wipe your mouth when you are done.

Timing a rebuild around the contract maturation of your franchise players is roster construction 101.

And I have no idea where that AB comment came from. I’d never argue he sucks. You’re swinging at ghosts.

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

[eyriq]

Oh yeah! it’s not 7-D chess!

It’s totally perfectly timed to this offseason! He was lying in wait for the perfect opportunity to move KCP to the Grizzlies when his contract was up after this offseason!

This is like arguing Anthony Black sucks but it’s all intended because his skillset matches with Franz and Paolo so it doesn’t matter.

Semantics. Jumping through hoops. Homerism.
Wipe your mouth when you are done.

Timing a rebuild around the contract maturation of your franchise players is roster construction 101.

And I have no idea where that AB comment came from. I’d never argue he sucks. You’re swinging at ghosts.

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

Ah yes, the classic “if you disagree with me you must be 14 with a low IQ” defense. Strong stuff.

You’re mad I’ve been consistent, and even madder the team finally caught up to the timeline I said was coming. That’s fine. Keep calling it homerism. I’ll keep calling it reading the room.

And for the record, the sweater vest thing was a joke. You might enjoy the forum more if you tried one.

[VFX]

Timing a rebuild around the contract maturation of your franchise players is roster construction 101.

And I have no idea where that AB comment came from. I’d never argue he sucks. You’re swinging at ghosts.

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

Ah yes, the classic “if you disagree with me you must be 14 with a low IQ” defense. Strong stuff.

You’re mad I’ve been consistent, and even madder the team finally caught up to the timeline I said was coming. That’s fine. Keep calling it homerism. I’ll keep calling it reading the room.

And for the record, the sweater vest thing was a joke. You might enjoy the forum more if you tried one.

No I said these theories and false optimism, while forgoing to look at the entire picture, works on that crowd easily. Not that you yourself are that person.

What timeline? Am I wrong that Weltman did nothing for 4 seasons involving the trade market? Am I wrong that he evaluated multiple seasons with the same roster? Am I wrong that he kept the same 5-6 players after drafting and prioritizing his core? Am I wrong he drafted 5 borderline starters to absolute busts over the course of 8 drafts in JI, Bamba, Okeke, Cole, Jett? Is all of that “part of the plan” now that he balanced the roster for once? Lmao

Yeah, anything that is embarrassing to you was just a joke. Trading 4+ draft picks and KCP+ Cole was totally planned for multiple seasons. AB was always “just a connector” piece as a top lotto pick.

It’s funny how all your takes seem to fall into place when the goalposts move a LOT closer than they were originally. Seems to be a theme here. Oh no I’ve been consistent with my takes here. You weren’t even posting here during the Vuc years. You came out of hibernation when Paolo was selected.

[JoshuaPotter]

Oh yeah! it’s not 7-D chess!

It’s totally perfectly timed to this offseason! He was lying in wait for the perfect opportunity to move KCP to the Grizzlies when his contract was up after this offseason!

This is like arguing Anthony Black sucks but it’s all intended because his skillset matches with Franz and Paolo so it doesn’t matter.

Semantics. Jumping through hoops. Homerism.
Wipe your mouth when you are done.

Timing a rebuild around the contract maturation of your franchise players is roster construction 101.

And I have no idea where that AB comment came from. I’d never argue he sucks. You’re swinging at ghosts.

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

Oh come now VFX that sweater vest vs actual vest by metric was the stuff made of legends. Probably the most fun I have had reviewing data in a long time.

[VFX]

Timing a rebuild around the contract maturation of your franchise players is roster construction 101.

And I have no idea where that AB comment came from. I’d never argue he sucks. You’re swinging at ghosts.

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

Oh come now VFX that sweater vest vs actual vest by metric was the stuff made of legends. Probably the most fun I have had reviewing data in a long time.

Things are fun until people pile on.

Then they become “jokes” when people laugh at you and not with you.

[bigdogdylan5]

Who is refusing to give him credit?

The Bane deal was good.
Drafting Paolo, Franz, and Suggs were great.
Moving on from KCP was good and essential.
Signing Tyus was a great move.

I’m being completely honest with those decisions. I’m giving him credit where credit is due. We will see how it all pans out.

I’m just not going to pretend throughout Weltmans tenure that he deserves credit for inactivity because homers want to attribute a theoretical timeline to his inactions. Thats not how things work because it’s convenient to your argument now in a three week window.

If people want to pretend no decisions needed to be made for the last 4 seasons that’s fine. Being upset that people don’t necessarily BUY that theory is just kind of a weird Reddit brained argument.

Both things can be true.

I didn’t mention you when I said what I said. I think you and I disagree on his inactivity. Does he deserve credit for it absolutely not. Does he may deserve some faith, patience, and understanding I would say yes. We as fans arent privy to the conversations we don’t know what is or isn’t on the table at what time. Like if the Bane trade was on the table last year I think he takes it. He even said as much in his press conference. He was clearly trying to preserve his ammunition for the right player at the right time and that player finally was available. Will see if he is right. I think being conservative and patient are valuable traits in a GM.

I am not saying he is perfect but the Magic have had a really poor history of GMs making dumb deals and being too aggressive at times. I think his tenure has been refreshing. You don’t always get stars on a timeline so it’s awesome to see the ownership trust him through the bad lottery luck and i think it worked out. Now he built slowly and methodically around his stars. Again time will tell if that was the right move.

[eyriq]

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

Ah yes, the classic “if you disagree with me you must be 14 with a low IQ” defense. Strong stuff.

You’re mad I’ve been consistent, and even madder the team finally caught up to the timeline I said was coming. That’s fine. Keep calling it homerism. I’ll keep calling it reading the room.

And for the record, the sweater vest thing was a joke. You might enjoy the forum more if you tried one.

No I said these theories and false optimism, while forgoing to look at the entire picture, works on that crowd easily. Not that you yourself are that person.

What timeline? Am I wrong that Weltman did nothing for 4 seasons involving the trade market? Am I wrong that he evaluated multiple seasons with the same roster? Am I wrong that he kept the same 5-6 players after drafting and prioritizing his core? Am I wrong he drafted 5 borderline starters to absolute busts over the course of 8 drafts in JI, Bamba, Okeke, Cole, Jett? Is all of that “part of the plan” now that he balanced the roster for once? Lmao

Yeah, anything that is embarrassing to you was just a joke. Trading 4+ draft picks and KCP+ Cole was totally planned for multiple seasons. AB was always “just a connector” piece as a top lotto pick.

It’s funny how all your takes seem to fall into place when the goalposts move a LOT closer than they were originally. Seems to be a theme here. Oh no I’ve been consistent with my takes here. You weren’t even posting here during the Vuc years. You came out of hibernation when Paolo was selected.

You act like disappearing during the Hennigan years was some kind of indictment. I stepped back because the front office abandoned the organic build, traded the few promising pieces we had, and locked us into a treadmill core with no upside. I had just started a family and was focused on building a career to support them. Forgive me for not sticking around to debate the merits of the Serge Ibaka trade.

But here’s what’s clear. Weltman did what Hennigan couldn’t. He committed to a real rebuild, landed two franchise guys, and waited until the roster and cap sheet were ready before making a major move. You call it luck or panic because it didn’t happen on your preferred schedule. I call it execution.

The takes didn’t age into the moment. The moment caught up to the plan.

[pepe1991]

I can write 20 pages essay of every single noticable Weltman transaction for past 8 years with 100% objectivity about every single one of them. But what's the point?

Even today i had massive text that went in depth how Weltman's starting position on Magic wasn't bad, but it was his decision to stale and do nothing for 4 years that kept team in limbo.

To sum up text in several bullet points:
- he joined team in 2017
- Magic had all own picks + 25th pick in 2017 from that point on
- Magic salary cap wasn't issue at all
- at one point Magic had issues even filling salary floor, let alone salary cap, that's how cheap roster was under
- only bad contract was Biyombo

Things he did from 2017- 2020 alone were worth being fired.

Whole "inherited roster" stuff in nonsense, he resigned: Vuc, Ross and Gordon.

His 2017 and 2018 seasons were Billy King level bad.

In 2017 he had 6# pick, 25# pick and 33# pick.
Drafted Isaac, after team alraedy had high investment in Gordon, who played same position. Several allstars were drafted after.
Than traded 25th pick for top 20 protected pick from 76ers in 2020, if pick didn't convert, it would turn into pair of second round picks. After pick somehow survived protection, he dumped it for Fultz. Pick turned into Maxey. It's one of most depressing trades in Magic history . Said draft flattened out. People picked after flattened out draft: Derrick White, Josh Hart, Kuzma, Tony Bradley.
With 33# pick drafted Iwundu. Left on table I Hart,Dillion Brooks , Thomas Bryant.

2018. Drafted Bamba. Guess who didn't even worked out ? Future league's MVP and finals MVP and scoring leader SGA. On team who's PG-SG roster was made out of Evan and DJ Augustin .
Bamba no longer in nba.
Drafted Frazier. No longer in nba (for years)
Drafted Jarred Vanderbilt, than traded pick to Nuggets for Justin Jackson. Vanderbilt still in nba, Justin Jackson never played in nba.

2019- drafted Okeke. No longer in nba.

2020 - drafted Cole. Dumped second round picks, draft famous for second round talents like : Isaiah Joe, Kenyon Martin jr, Sam Merill, Nick Richard, Tre Jones.

Oh and alternatives for Cole: MAXEY ( circling back to most illogical trade possible from 2017) , Quickley, Payton Prichard, Desmond Bane, Jaden McDaniels.

And was there any intention to stop circle of mediocrity? No. Gordon walked out. And Weltman somehow kept job ,despite team quitting on him.

People like to talk about Vuc trade, and sure thing, that's a win. BUT he got robbed in Gordon trade and traded Evan for TPE than forgot to use TPE to trade player

[JoshuaPotter]

Stick to twitter and discord my guy.

You can get away with terrible hot takes there with sub 70 iq 14 year olds. Thats easy because nobody can look up takes you made 3 + years ago.

No, you can’t handle when there is the slightest criticism against this organization because you an unapologetic homer. It’s embarrassing.

Bro you had multiple threads about how sweater vests translate to something because AB wasn’t living up to the position he was drafted for.

Like my opinions on Weltmans 8+ years here are going to change because in the last 3-4 weeks he made some ballsy decisions. Give me a **** break. Maybe they’ll change after this season, maybe they won’t.

I see you’ve already created the passive aggressive extend Weltman thread which is very on brand for you. You are only slightly insufferable. At least you aren’t aggressively annoying like past posters.

Oh come now VFX that sweater vest vs actual vest by metric was the stuff made of legends. Probably the most fun I have had reviewing data in a long time.

Things are fun until people pile on.

Then they become “jokes” when people laugh at you and not with you.

The drinking game cannot live without fresh meat for the grinder....

[JoshuaPotter]

Spoiler:

I can write 20 pages essay of every single noticable Weltman transaction for past 8 years with 100% objectivity about every single one of them. But what's the point?

Even today i had massive text that went in depth how Weltman's starting position on Magic wasn't bad, but it was his decision to stale and do nothing for 4 years that kept team in limbo.

To sum up text in several bullet points:
- he joined team in 2017
- Magic had all own picks + 25th pick in 2017 from that point on
- Magic salary cap wasn't issue at all
- at one point Magic had issues even filling salary floor, let alone salary cap, that's how cheap roster was under
- only bad contract was Biyombo

Things he did from 2017- 2020 alone were worth being fired.

Whole "inherited roster" stuff in nonsense, he resigned: Vuc, Ross and Gordon.

His 2017 and 2018 seasons were Billy King level bad.

In 2017 he had 6# pick, 25# pick and 33# pick.
Drafted Isaac, after team alraedy had high investment in Gordon, who played same position. Several allstars were drafted after.
Than traded 25th pick for top 20 protected pick from 76ers in 2020, if pick didn't convert, it would turn into pair of second round picks. After pick somehow survived protection, he dumped it for Fultz. Pick turned into Maxey. It's one of most depressing trades in Magic history . Said draft flattened out. People picked after flattened out draft: Derrick White, Josh Hart, Kuzma, Tony Bradley.
With 33# pick drafted Iwundu. Left on table I Hart,Dillion Brooks , Thomas Bryant.

2018. Drafted Bamba. Guess who didn't even worked out ? Future league's MVP and finals MVP and scoring leader SGA. On team who's PG-SG roster was made out of Evan and DJ Augustin .
Bamba no longer in nba.
Drafted Frazier. No longer in nba (for years)
Drafted Jarred Vanderbilt, than traded pick to Nuggets for Justin Jackson. Vanderbilt still in nba, Justin Jackson never played in nba.

2019- drafted Okeke. No longer in nba.

2020 - drafted Cole. Dumped second round picks, draft famous for second round talents like : Isaiah Joe, Kenyon Martin jr, Sam Merill, Nick Richard, Tre Jones.

Oh and alternatives for Cole: MAXEY ( circling back to most illogical trade possible from 2017) , Quickley, Payton Prichard, Desmond Bane, Jaden McDaniels.

And was there any intention to stop circle of mediocrity? No. Gordon walked out. And Weltman somehow kept job ,despite team quitting on him.

People like to talk about Vuc trade, and sure thing, that's a win. BUT he got robbed in Gordon trade and traded Evan for TPE than forgot to use TPE to trade player

What's funny in all this is my opinions were formed post Paolo when I decided it was time to listen to Magic games again after suffering enough to win a no 1 pick.

Either way, here we are, and for once I have an offseason where I can say. "Ok, I am alright with this one."

[eyriq]

I can write 20 pages essay of every single noticable Weltman transaction for past 8 years with 100% objectivity about every single one of them. But what's the point?

Even today i had massive text that went in depth how Weltman's starting position on Magic wasn't bad, but it was his decision to stale and do nothing for 4 years that kept team in limbo.

To sum up text in several bullet points:
- he joined team in 2017
- Magic had all own picks + 25th pick in 2017 from that point on
- Magic salary cap wasn't issue at all
- at one point Magic had issues even filling salary floor, let alone salary cap, that's how cheap roster was under
- only bad contract was Biyombo

Things he did from 2017- 2020 alone were worth being fired.

Whole "inherited roster" stuff in nonsense, he resigned: Vuc, Ross and Gordon.

His 2017 and 2018 seasons were Billy King level bad.

In 2017 he had 6# pick, 25# pick and 33# pick.
Drafted Isaac, after team alraedy had high investment in Gordon, who played same position. Several allstars were drafted after.
Than traded 25th pick for top 20 protected pick from 76ers in 2020, if pick didn't convert, it would turn into pair of second round picks. After pick somehow survived protection, he dumped it for Fultz. Pick turned into Maxey. It's one of most depressing trades in Magic history . Said draft flattened out. People picked after flattened out draft: Derrick White, Josh Hart, Kuzma, Tony Bradley.
With 33# pick drafted Iwundu. Left on table I Hart,Dillion Brooks , Thomas Bryant.

2018. Drafted Bamba. Guess who didn't even worked out ? Future league's MVP and finals MVP and scoring leader SGA. On team who's PG-SG roster was made out of Evan and DJ Augustin .
Bamba no longer in nba.
Drafted Frazier. No longer in nba (for years)
Drafted Jarred Vanderbilt, than traded pick to Nuggets for Justin Jackson. Vanderbilt still in nba, Justin Jackson never played in nba.

2019- drafted Okeke. No longer in nba.

2020 - drafted Cole. Dumped second round picks, draft famous for second round talents like : Isaiah Joe, Kenyon Martin jr, Sam Merill, Nick Richard, Tre Jones.

Oh and alternatives for Cole: MAXEY ( circling back to most illogical trade possible from 2017) , Quickley, Payton Prichard, Desmond Bane, Jaden McDaniels.

And was there any intention to stop circle of mediocrity? No. Gordon walked out. And Weltman somehow kept job ,despite team quitting on him.

People like to talk about Vuc trade, and sure thing, that's a win. BUT he got robbed in Gordon trade and traded Evan for TPE than forgot to use TPE to trade player

There’s a lot here, but the framing leans too heavily on hindsight and ignores strategic context. Weltman’s early years weren’t aggressive, but that was by design. He came in, evaluated the roster, and chose to stabilize rather than tear down immediately. That gave him clean data on what the Clifford-era core could and couldn’t do. The back-to-back playoff runs confirmed the ceiling, and from there, he pivoted decisively.

Yes, the 2017–2020 draft record is mixed. Bamba over SGA, the Fultz trade costing Maxey, and a few second-round misses all stand out in retrospect. But this is true for almost every front office. What matters more is whether the process adjusted. It clearly did. Starting in 2021, his draft record improves sharply: Wagner, Suggs, Paolo, Black. That’s a foundational core, and it came from a clear philosophical shift... less on raw tools, more on feel, IQ, and two-way versatility.

Also worth noting: the Vucevic trade wasn’t just a win, it was a franchise reset. It returned Franz, WCJ, and the pick that became Jett. The Bane deal doesn’t happen without that trade. Even the Gordon return, while modest, added the 2025 first used on Jase.

I’m not arguing that every move has been perfect. But the rebuild has had a consistent logic, and the results speak. The team went from a treadmill roster to a 47-win defensive juggernaut with two All-Star caliber cornerstones. That doesn’t happen by accident.

[JF5]

I can write 20 pages essay of every single noticable Weltman transaction for past 8 years with 100% objectivity about every single one of them. But what's the point?

Even today i had massive text that went in depth how Weltman's starting position on Magic wasn't bad, but it was his decision to stale and do nothing for 4 years that kept team in limbo.

To sum up text in several bullet points:
- he joined team in 2017
- Magic had all own picks + 25th pick in 2017 from that point on
- Magic salary cap wasn't issue at all
- at one point Magic had issues even filling salary floor, let alone salary cap, that's how cheap roster was under
- only bad contract was Biyombo

Things he did from 2017- 2020 alone were worth being fired.

Whole "inherited roster" stuff in nonsense, he resigned: Vuc, Ross and Gordon.

His 2017 and 2018 seasons were Billy King level bad.

In 2017 he had 6# pick, 25# pick and 33# pick.
Drafted Isaac, after team alraedy had high investment in Gordon, who played same position. Several allstars were drafted after.
Than traded 25th pick for top 20 protected pick from 76ers in 2020, if pick didn't convert, it would turn into pair of second round picks. After pick somehow survived protection, he dumped it for Fultz. Pick turned into Maxey. It's one of most depressing trades in Magic history . Said draft flattened out. People picked after flattened out draft: Derrick White, Josh Hart, Kuzma, Tony Bradley.
With 33# pick drafted Iwundu. Left on table I Hart,Dillion Brooks , Thomas Bryant.

2018. Drafted Bamba. Guess who didn't even worked out ? Future league's MVP and finals MVP and scoring leader SGA. On team who's PG-SG roster was made out of Evan and DJ Augustin .
Bamba no longer in nba.
Drafted Frazier. No longer in nba (for years)
Drafted Jarred Vanderbilt, than traded pick to Nuggets for Justin Jackson. Vanderbilt still in nba, Justin Jackson never played in nba.

2019- drafted Okeke. No longer in nba.

2020 - drafted Cole. Dumped second round picks, draft famous for second round talents like : Isaiah Joe, Kenyon Martin jr, Sam Merill, Nick Richard, Tre Jones.

Oh and alternatives for Cole: MAXEY ( circling back to most illogical trade possible from 2017) , Quickley, Payton Prichard, Desmond Bane, Jaden McDaniels.

And was there any intention to stop circle of mediocrity? No. Gordon walked out. And Weltman somehow kept job ,despite team quitting on him.

People like to talk about Vuc trade, and sure thing, that's a win. BUT he got robbed in Gordon trade and traded Evan for TPE than forgot to use TPE to trade player

A lot of this is just wrong.

1. Weltman/Hammond came in... The first thing that Alex Martins wanted was for the team to make the playoffs as soon as possible

So per Executive/Ownership request he did just that adding Veteran Players/Veteran Coaching that could make it happen. And they did in the 2018-2019... a season after taking over after the 16-17 season.

Common sense is the only way you'll have a chance to make the playoffs is adding a bunch of proven talent and strong team identity.

2. Given the objective, they had to keep this team competitive until literally everyone in the core demanded a trade to which they could finally were able to pull the plug in early 2021 as Executives/Ownership gave a green light to rebuild. Post trade press conference you could see how happy Weltman was to have us starting over again and build the team on his terms, much to everyone's delight in the fanbase.

Btw, that Vucevic trade that netted the Magic Franz. People forget what the going rate it was for Vucevic BEFORE Weltman took over. His value for a few years had him going for a late first picks at best.

The fact that they were able to turn that Vuc into an Allstar Caliber player and then flip him for a Superstar Player in Franz, and a fringe starter/contributor in Wendell Carter was phenomenal.

3. The actual full tear down took place in 2021. Drafted the franchise players in 2021 and 2022. Usually a rebuild takes 3-4 years and they've hit contendership/competitive status at the end of it at around 2025.

Of course there were bad moves.

But if you told this fambase after the Vucevic, Fournier, Gordon in 2021 that they'd have 2 Franchise Players + an Allstar Caliber player and a stacked team that has the chance to win the title 2026 they wouldn't believe it. They would probably say we have a pretty good GM.

I experienced the Hennigan era, I've seen teams like Detroit Pistons for a decade plus make bad decisions year and year out. To have your team in this position you have to have a pretty good front office.

This team could've drafted Jabari Smith Jr., and Moses Moody who were supposedly to be projected better players than Paolo and Franz.

They could've potentially signed an aging Paul George last year and that could've killed our flexibility with his contract.

But it turns out the decisions or non decisions got them to where they are now. Obviously, games need to be played, but barring injury this is the most talented team we've had since the Dwight years. And you have to really credit Weltman for putting this together in 4 years.