Moderators: Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird
AdamTheGreek wrote:Last 2 minutes report is out.
It acknowledges that Orlando Robinson should’ve been called for an illegal screen on KCP that led to the Walter go-ahead 3.
And Orlando Robinson should’ve been called for a foul for impeding WCJ on the alley oop.
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022400883
Never should’ve come down to that, but we got hosed.
Idiosyncratic wrote:Yup which is why tanking is nearly impossible. I think we are likely looking at a rematch with the Cavs at this point
Would be hilarious to see the Bulls make the playoffs and miss the lottery though at their record.
eyriq wrote:Idiosyncratic wrote:Yup which is why tanking is nearly impossible. I think we are likely looking at a rematch with the Cavs at this point
Would be hilarious to see the Bulls make the playoffs and miss the lottery though at their record.
I'll happily take the Cavs or Celtics. It'll be huge for AB and TDS to get meaningful playing time in the play-in and playoffs, and if Jett is still in the rotation, good for his development as well.
I absolutely want us to win the division, which will get us the seventh seed with two chances on our home court to advance to the playoffs.
VFX wrote:Audi wrote:VFX wrote:People seem to be missing the Paolo argument.
Is he the source of the entire problem? No.
Is he a symptom of the problems on offense? Kinda.
You always look to who is the primary offense is geared toward and what their usage happens to be in wins and losses.
Paolo isn't an efficient player. He could be more efficient with a point guard and shooters. Suggs does half of this with creation and its no mystery that the offense looks better with him in an ancillary way.
Nobody here is saying Paolo sucks and is the reason the offense sucks. People are pointing out that him being the #1 option is absolutely a problem within the context of the roster right now. That isn't some hot take here. It's almost entirely factual. As a #1 option he has the same exact skillset as Franz, doesn't often look to shoot beyond the arc, relies on drawing fouls instead of finishing, etc.
It’s also not really his fault that the system is just basically trash for him. Its absolutely a problem that he's our #1 option on offense based on usage if you DO NOT trust this front office to actually make him look efficient and develop a passable floor game.
And yet - there are some here who’s next logical step isn’t “axe the FO because they can’t be trusted to make him look efficient”, it’s “trade him”.
It's a catch 22 based on the decisions they've already made though.
They have already maxed Franz and given Suggs a large deal. Both of those guys IN MY OPINION are untouchable unless its for a superstar return. So people are naturally weighing other options. You either believe a roster is salvageable with those contracts, or it will be a difficult uphill battle. Franz offense is too valuable and Suggs defense is basically the team identity if they DO NOT have a functional system in place.
Im camp "FIRE FO" regardless. Its not even a question and hasn't been for years. Paolo hasnt necessarily inspired supreme confidence though as a primary option on offense though, which is his entire game... The question becomes... "Does a complete change of the system on offense with a point guard change his game completely?" I lean no. He is who he is. But id love to be wong and see the alternative regardless.
It's just whether or not you want to hand him a completely max deal and suffer the consequences should he not change with a system update, because then we are kinda screwed.
meatwad4343 wrote:The raptors, one of the worst teams in the league, intentionally trying to tank, took out all of their good players with nine minutes left and we still found a way to lose. This team is cooked and people need to be fired
SloNick Russia wrote:Franz is a two way star, Suggs is a def star capable on offense. The reason why we had a good team with Paolo out was a star forward plus star guard which is always a better combo then two similar type forwards with 0 guard help like we have now. Paolo is always compared to Blake Griffin, however he is near Blake athleticly. Paolo doesn't play above the rim and not a good rebounder at all. He has PF/C body but plays like a SF. He is new era Melo, not an easy player to build a team around. We need dominant center around him like Gober to domibate the boards and rim protection.
WCJ just failed the last game and Goga has been terrible for some time, we got outrebounded by Raptors badly.
Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app
The biggest thing Suggs brought was no conscience. Black lets misses affect him sometimes for multiple games. Black lacks confidence big time. He hides on offense, so he can't get a pass. It's like he stands behind the defender, so you can't pass the ball to him.T-Cat wrote:Anyone look at how little Anthony Black's arm are? What has he been doing all summer long, he should be toned up at least. I see why he wears undershirts underneath his jersey!
Skybox wrote:This is definitely a chicken and egg thing...I'm sure Paolo can do better, but I also think there is, literally, NO system of offensive movement or plan. I think our immensely talented #1 overall physical specimen deserves the benefit of the doubt - at least until there's any sort of order around him...and, yes, I think he's talented enough to build it "around him" (as you'd hope it would be for a top overall pick).
If you think he's doing all of this inefficient stuff because he's selfish or just ignoring the Coach...I disagree. Even in "selfish loser mode", he gets more assists than many PG's in the NBA and he plays across the floor from a similar specimen. Together, there's a TON of potential for a movement offense that lights up the NBA...my opinion.
It doesn't feel good but more and more pointing to Mose. How does everyone on the team shoot career lows?
the sky's the limit.
Skybox wrote:Simply put...is there anyone in the league that can single-cover Paolo, for even a possession? That's something to seriously consider...there are little wasps on the perimeter like Maxey or Steph that you can only stay with for a couple seconds - until you hit a pick...but how many players in the NBA have his insane combination of size & strength to go with speed and handles? Way quicker and just as strong as any big in the league and basically Godzilla against anyone else.
That's a nuclear weapon that can only be stopped by a gang of defenders...which leads to open guys. Pick your poison. With this current lineup, it's an easy choice...leave the other guys open. When they learn to cut and finish or, god forbid, hit open 3's...Paolo's (and Franz) refinement should come. If they can both develop that vision with experience and good coaching...
Give them both a break. Barely 22yo...every other thread says we shouldn't expect anything out of young guys, but we expect P&F to be HOFers in every detail at around the same age as others who are way behind.
eyriq wrote:One thing to consider about Paolo is that the patience required for developing point guards probably should be applied to his playmaking since he's essentially tasked with running the offense alongside Franz. I never really thought of it that way and just got frustrated by his turnovers but honestly running the offense is running the offense and it takes three to four seasons for the game to slow down for primary playmakers.
GelbeWand09 wrote:VFX wrote:Audi wrote:
And yet - there are some here who’s next logical step isn’t “axe the FO because they can’t be trusted to make him look efficient”, it’s “trade him”.
It's a catch 22 based on the decisions they've already made though.
They have already maxed Franz and given Suggs a large deal. Both of those guys IN MY OPINION are untouchable unless its for a superstar return. So people are naturally weighing other options. You either believe a roster is salvageable with those contracts, or it will be a difficult uphill battle. Franz offense is too valuable and Suggs defense is basically the team identity if they DO NOT have a functional system in place.
Im camp "FIRE FO" regardless. Its not even a question and hasn't been for years. Paolo hasnt necessarily inspired supreme confidence though as a primary option on offense though, which is his entire game... The question becomes... "Does a complete change of the system on offense with a point guard change his game completely?" I lean no. He is who he is. But id love to be wong and see the alternative regardless.
It's just whether or not you want to hand him a completely max deal and suffer the consequences should he not change with a system update, because then we are kinda screwed.
I'm one of his biggest critics here. I wrote when we drafted him I won't criticize him much the first 2 seasons because i wanna give him time to prove me wrong. So far he looks exactly like I thought when we drafted him. One way player with middling efficiency on high volume and low impact but good looking old school stats.
Franz is and was always the better player not only on defense. His elite finishing is just a much more reliable skill than Paolos freethrow hunting.
Suggs is the less talented player but the more impactful player.
But I still never said we should trade him and I haven't even checked the trade him thread so far.
1st there is no chance they trade him but 2nd the FO pretty much failed him (and Franz and Suggs) completely. Do I think Paolo will ever be the best player on a contender? No, one way offensive player have to be Jokic / Doncic level good to be best player on contender.
But I think he can be the best scorer (not player) on a contender in the right system and with the right complementary players. Weltman built the anti team for Paolo from players to the offensively incompetent coach. He got the worst possible spacing, no PG, no ballhandling or dynamic in the backcourt, no penetration, worst fitting Bigs who doesn't cover his weaknesses on defense and doesn't help him on offense with spacing or vertical spacing. They built a system to highlight his weaknesses and they even support his bad iso habits.
Before I see him with a real PG and shooters around him I won't finally judge him. But I still gonna criticize him like I do now for all the things he is to blame for (defense, efficiency, rebounding, TO, 3p shooting).
