Official Speculation & Free Agency Thread (PtXI, Mods close)

arkknight1988 · Post #641 » by **arkknight1988** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:29 am

OT: nets are 8-23 after tonights loss to the pacers. closing in on that lottery pick

thelead · Post #642 » by **thelead** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:39 am

arkknight1988 wrote:OT: nets are 8-23 after tonights loss to the pacers. closing in on that lottery pick

we've been over this plenty of times. Top 5 pick or it doesn't matter. They will not have a top 5 pick with Dwight and 20 games to go.

arkknight1988 · Post #643 » by **arkknight1988** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:45 am

thelead wrote:
arkknight1988 wrote:OT: nets are 8-23 after tonights loss to the pacers. closing in on that lottery pick

we've been over this plenty of times. Top 5 pick or it doesn't matter. They will not have a top 5 pick with Dwight and 20 games to go.

top 10 pick this year. top 5 pick next year. Why would deron and dwight give 100% effort when they would have no chance at making the playoffs anyways?

mattyBoi · Post #644 » by **mattyBoi** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:00 am

They will 20 games under .500 at least by the time they would get Dwight. .500 or below is a top 11 pick right now, and they are not going to win all 20. I think its a top 5-8 guaranteed, and you can always get lucky.

thelead · Post #645 » by **thelead** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:01 am

arkknight1988 wrote:
thelead wrote:
arkknight1988 wrote:OT: nets are 8-23 after tonights loss to the pacers. closing in on that lottery pick

we've been over this plenty of times. Top 5 pick or it doesn't matter. They will not have a top 5 pick with Dwight and 20 games to go.

top 10 pick this year. top 5 pick next year. Why would deron and dwight give 100% effort when they would have no chance at making the playoffs anyways?

To try to make the playoffs. If they have 15 wins come March 15th (don't know if they can get there even with Lopez coming back), they could go 15-5 and end up with 30-36 which might get you into the playoffs.

arkknight1988 · Post #646 » by **arkknight1988** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:10 am

^ have u seen their roster? that team is NOT making a playoff push this year

PeePee la Fritz · Post #647 » by **PeePee la Fritz** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:34 am

thelead wrote:
arkknight1988 wrote:OT: nets are 8-23 after tonights loss to the pacers. closing in on that lottery pick

we've been over this plenty of times. Top 5 pick or it doesn't matter. They will not have a top 5 pick with Dwight and 20 games to go.

Why top 5 or it doesn't matter?

thelead · Post #648 » by **thelead** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:34 am

arkknight1988 wrote:^ have u seen their roster? that team is NOT making a playoff push this year

I don't feel like looking up the exact amount of games, but (big) if they can win 7 more games by March 15th, and get Dwight with 22 (I think) games to go, they could go 15-7 with Dwight; which would end up at 30-36. That might be in the playoff hunt this year (depending on injuries).

thelead · Post #649 » by **thelead** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:37 am

PeePee la Fritz wrote:
thelead wrote:
arkknight1988 wrote:OT: nets are 8-23 after tonights loss to the pacers. closing in on that lottery pick

we've been over this plenty of times. Top 5 pick or it doesn't matter. They will not have a top 5 pick with Dwight and 20 games to go.

Why top 5 or it doesn't matter?

Davis
Drummonds (who might not come out)
Kidd-Gilchrist
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else is a crapshoot

there was a statistic driven thread about how many good players are drafted after the top 5 picks. It wasn't statistically pretty.

PeePee la Fritz · Post #650 » by **PeePee la Fritz** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:45 am

Gotcha, I remember the thread. Didn't know that's what you were reffering to. Makes sense though.

thelead · Post #651 » by **thelead** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:53 am

VGOSWAMI wrote:
Noonskadoodle wrote:So JR went to the Clips instead?

@TheRealJRSmith: Thanks RT @clipperdarrell: @TheRealJRSmith @flaminginkbone WELCOME TO LOS ANGELES!!! #TEAMSWISH
Shared via TweetCaster

Interesting. Don't trust the "sources."

Seems like he's going to NY:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1144803&start=75

BN · Post #652 » by BN » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:54 am

arkknight1988 wrote:i think if stan is going to call out anderson for 2 rebounds he should do the same to jameer next time he puts up 0 assists. I don't think i could play for stan.

Well I suppose that if you could... you probably wouldn't be on here

Nolimit1211 · Post #653 » by **Nolimit1211** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 am

D12VCMagic wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Signing JR Smith would be redundant. JJ >>> JR Smith.

exactly how?

JR more athletic, can drive and create his own shot, the type of player that could get hot and go for 30+ in a night. JJ is none of those things.

JJ brings intelligence to the table, players harder on defense and knows his role better. JR Smith is more talented than Redick, but I'd take JJ every day of the week.

I'll take JR Smith too. Having a guy who can drop 30 on any team any night is priceless. Redick hustles but he's still just an undersized spot-up shooter... and that doesn't do anything in the playoffs.

MagicFan41 · Post #654 » by **MagicFan41** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:31 am

thelead wrote:
PeePee la Fritz wrote:
Davis
Drummonds (who might not come out)
Kidd-Gilchrist
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else is a crapshoot

there was a statistic driven thread about how many good players are drafted after the top 5 picks. It wasn't statistically pretty.

Yeh, and I posted a statistic driven post about how many of the top 3 draft picks in like the last 15-20 years have won championships. The results are pretty shocking...

So you can't just act like the only way to become good/win is by getting a top 3-5 pick.

I'm not gonna re-do the numbers again....but just take a look at the top 3-5 picks in every recent draft and look how many champions there are......it's like playing Where's Waldo. Hell, take a look at basically everybody in those drafts. That list stops at 2006. I looked, and nobody in the top 10 since 2006 has won it either. The only people who have even been close are the OKC guys and Rose.

http://www.nba.com/history/draft_top13.html

Lots of these guys have barely even sniffed the playoffs, much less championships. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time a guy chosen in the top 3 won a championship (I don't count Adam Morrison) was Tyson and Pau (both taken in 2001). Pau shouldn't have been gifted to the Lakers, so he basically shouldn't have won that, and Tyson wasn't exactly the driving force of the Mavs run last year (a key piece but obv Dirk was the centerpiece along with a ton of other vets). So basically if you remove Pau from that equation, it took 10 years for any top 3 guy to really win a championship? Plus, neither Pau, nor Tyson won their championships for the teams that drafted them...

The last major guy taken up near the top to do it was Wade, and that was mostly because they teamed him with Shaq. Look how much he did without Shaq in the following years, nothing at all.

The last #1 pick to win a championship was Duncan, drafted 15 years ago.

Post #655 » by **eyriq** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:54 am

Since 2000 you've had six players lead their teams to the championship as the best player on that team. Shaq (1st pick), Duncan (1st pick), Billups (3rd pick), Wade (5th pick), KG (5th pick), Kobe (13th pick), and Dirk (9th pick).

So, only two players outside the top 5 picks in a draft have led their team to a title as the best player on the team, and none of them fell outside the lottery. I'd go back even further but I'm not sure how much the trend would change.

MagicFan41 · Post #656 » by **MagicFan41** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:05 am

eyriq wrote:Since 2000 you've had six players lead their teams to the championship as the best player on that team. Shaq (1st pick), Duncan (1st pick), Billups (3rd pick), Wade (5th pick), KG (5th pick), Kobe (13th pick), and Dirk (9th pick).

So, only two players outside the top 5 picks in a draft have led their team to a title as the best player on the team, and none of them fell outside the lottery. I'd go back even further but I'm not sure how much the trend would change.

First of all, KG didn't "lead" that team to a championship, that was a whole team effort, and he was a guy at the very end of his career joining up with 3 other future hall-of-famers. Also, didn't do it with the team that drafted him because he was sick of not being enough to go over the hump in MN and had to go elsewhere to team up. If Lebron wins one, it will be the same situation. I already stated my case with Wade, that wasn't just Wade and a bunch of young nobodies like everyone on this board wants to rebuild with. Shaq could've done it in Orlando but didn't, he left and only did it with either Kobe or Wade. Billups floated from team to team to team until he got into a great situation in Detroit with a perfect "team" mentality. You could easily argue Kobe was the most dominant of that group you just listed, and he was a 13th pick. So I could easily argue tons of counterpoints to that philosophy. So this idea of, you draft a top 3-5 guy and he leads YOUR team to a championship RARELY ever happens. Ever.

Dirk also has class...and didn't just jet from his team when they struggled in the playoffs. Good luck finding that sort of character out of any of your typical top 3-5 picks nowadays...

Post #657 » by **Bensational** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:28 am

MagicFan41 wrote:
eyriq wrote:Since 2000 you've had six players lead their teams to the championship as the best player on that team. Shaq (1st pick), Duncan (1st pick), Billups (3rd pick), Wade (5th pick), KG (5th pick), Kobe (13th pick), and Dirk (9th pick).

So, only two players outside the top 5 picks in a draft have led their team to a title as the best player on the team, and none of them fell outside the lottery. I'd go back even further but I'm not sure how much the trend would change.

First of all, KG didn't "lead" that team to a championship, that was a whole team effort, and he was a guy at the very end of his career joining up with 3 other future hall-of-famers. Also, didn't do it with the team that drafted him because he was sick of not being enough to go over the hump in MN and had to go elsewhere to team up. If Lebron wins one, it will be the same situation. I already stated my case with Wade, that wasn't just Wade and a bunch of young nobodies like everyone on this board wants to rebuild with. Shaq could've done it in Orlando but didn't, he left and only did it with either Kobe or Wade. Billups floated from team to team to team until he got into a great situation in Detroit with a perfect "team" mentality. You could easily argue Kobe was the most dominant of that group you just listed, and he was a 13th pick. So I could easily argue tons of counterpoints to that philosophy. So this idea of, you draft a top 3-5 guy and he leads YOUR team to a championship RARELY ever happens. Ever.

Dirk also has class...and didn't just jet from his team when they struggled in the playoffs. Good luck finding that sort of character out of any of your typical top 3-5 picks nowadays...

I think you missed his point. Wasn't so much about leading the team as in a lot of top 5 picks have been a part of a championship team - which contradicts what you said previously.

without derailing the thread, KG did lead that team. He was the core of their defense and keeping the team united.

Post #658 » by **ChosenSavior** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:34 am

BN wrote:
arkknight1988 wrote:i think if stan is going to call out anderson for 2 rebounds he should do the same to jameer next time he puts up 0 assists. I don't think i could play for stan.

Well I suppose that if you could... you probably wouldn't be on here

MoMM · Post #659 » by **MoMM** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:04 am

Darth Magic wrote:The truth is we have a good team, but it needs to be great. We lack a true second option to Dwight or a point guard that is impossible to keep out of the paint. Until we get that we will be no better than 3/4 in the east. Right now, if Ellis is out of the question as Warrior fans keep assuring me then we HAVE to get Steve Nash and do so without giving up Ryan Anderson.

In fact we lack a true 1st option, D12 is a second option in a good offensive team.

BelgianMagic · Post #660 » by **BelgianMagic** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Bucks are gonna try to move Jackson .. Yes, I've read that other thread, he's a headcase off the court. But on the court we could use him

Especially when you read MIL is probably gonna package him with another player ..

Maybe we should inquire about Jennings? He already said he's not gonna extend in Milwaukee ..