Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

[OrlandO]

If Porzingis is now fine with playing C then there's no way the Mavs throw a bunch of money at Vuc. It is a no brainer to play KP at C.

[ezzzp]

[url=http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=26814526]Windhorst throws in that along with other free agents like Middelton, Harris and Kemba Orlando have the option to offer a 5 year deal.

So Orlando is interested in Middelton, Harris and Kemba? How can we offer 5 year contract to them? We do not have the bird right?
We also do not have cap for a max contract?

I have been throwing Kemba option for months and I do not think he is interested in a S&T

I worded that weird, but just changed it....its Dallas who is interested in Middleton, Harris and Kemba...not Orlando. The 5 year thing was about the free agent's current teams being able to offer that extra incentive over Dallas who can only offer 4 years.

[KillMonger]

"20 million is all I would give up for vuc" , like it's your money. Vuc is going to get what he's worth and the market will decide what that is. It's a different situation but I distinctively remember guys going crazy over AG in restricted free agency. "such and such team is going to offer a max deal". "we're going to have to overpay to keep him". Yada Yada Yada, however when the deal came out it wasn't nearly as crazy as people were thinking. Point is why are we counting pockets now when we don't know what's on the table? Chill with the hyperbole and just wait... Things might not be what they seem

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Acquiring Conley is banking on internal development of players to an extent that losing #16, and having a worse pick next year as well as following years, isn’t beneficial for the needs of where the offense is currently. Isaac, AG, Bamba, Fultz, and Iwundu haven’t necessarily instilled confidence that we will be set offensively in the future regardless of how much youth is on the roster.

[Bensational]

Acquiring Conley is banking on internal development of players to an extent that losing #16, and having a worse pick next year as well as following years, isn’t beneficial for the needs of where the offense is currently. Isaac, AG, Bamba, Fultz, and Iwundu haven’t necessarily instilled confidence that we will be set offensively in the future regardless of how much youth is on the roster.

It's a 2 year window, and it doesn't hurt our ability to add other pieces, other than instead of having Fournier and Mozgov to shop for diamond in the rough trade candidates, we'd be committed to Conley. I don't think lottery odds are a factor for us, given how WeHam like to remain competitive, so we likely wouldn't be looking at a good pick regardless (other than lottery luck).

If we lose the #16 to get it done, it rules out one more draft option, but if WeHam feel the draft has 'flattened out' again and think they've spotted a Brogdon-like prospect in the 2nd round, we might still be able to continue adding to our stock of youth whilst also remaining in playoff contention.

I definitely agree with ezzzp that competitive games will be the best development environments for our young guys anyway. But that might just be a philosophical point of difference between yourself and me.

[VFX]

Acquiring Conley is banking on internal development of players to an extent that losing #16, and having a worse pick next year as well as following years, isn’t beneficial for the needs of where the offense is currently. Isaac, AG, Bamba, Fultz, and Iwundu haven’t necessarily instilled confidence that we will be set offensively in the future regardless of how much youth is on the roster.

It's a 2 year window, and it doesn't hurt our ability to add other pieces, other than instead of having Fournier and Mozgov to shop for diamond in the rough trade candidates, we'd be committed to Conley. I don't think lottery odds are a factor for us, given how WeHam like to remain competitive, so we likely wouldn't be looking at a good pick regardless (other than lottery luck).

If we lose the #16 to get it done, it rules out one more draft option, but if WeHam feel the draft has 'flattened out' again and think they've spotted a Brogdon-like prospect in the 2nd round, we might still be able to continue adding to our stock of youth whilst also remaining in playoff contention.

I definitely agree with ezzzp that competitive games will be the best development environments for our young guys anyway. But that might just be a philosophical point of difference between yourself and me.

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

[ezzzp]

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

In other words you want to tank.

Trading for Conley absolutely does not hurt Orlando's ability to add pieces through the draft. The Magic have ALL their picks moving forward.

Even in the negative scenario you just used where Magic are at most a fringe playoff team, just like you don't know what #16 will be in this supposedly bad draft, you also don't know what #14 or #18 or #whatever will be.

What we do know is that Weltman and Hammond have a track record of finding quality rotation players in all areas of the draft, in the G-L, and overseas. OG Anunoby, P Siakim, D Wright, F VanVleet, M Brogdon, N Powell, K Birch, I Briscoe, W Iwundu etc. The ones that are 2nd rounders and non-drafted types have incredible value because they come with the lowest minimum non-guaranteed salary possible in NBA.

Winning environments ARE the most proven developmental context. Its not about "positivity" crap. Its about playing in a higher competitive context vs teams actually trying and where accountability to teammates matters. Its more meaningful reps in 82+ meaningful games. The foundation is playing to win...that is the foundation of ALL the best player development teams, which just so happen to also be some of the best franchises in the NBA.

[VFX]

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

In other words you want to tank.

Trading for Conley absolutely does not hurt Orlando's ability to add pieces through the draft. The Magic have ALL their picks moving forward.

Even in the biased and negative scenario you just used where Magic are at most a fringe playoff team, just like you don't know what #16 will be in this supposedly bad draft, you also don't know what #14 or #18 or whatever will be.

What we do know is that Weltman and Hammond have a track record of finding quality rotation players in all areas of the draft, in the G-L, and overseas. OG Anunoby, P Siakim, D Wright, F VanVleet, M Brogdon, N Powell, K Birch, I Briscoe, W Iwundu etc. The ones that are 2nd rounders and non-drafted types have incredible value because they come with the lowest minimum non-guaranteed salary possible in NBA.

Winning environments ARE the most proven developmental context. Its not about "positivity" crap. Its about playing in a higher competitive context vs teams actually trying and where accountability to teammates matters. Its more meaningful reps in 82+ meaningful games. The foundation is playing to win...that is the foundation of ALL the best player development teams, which just so happen to also be some of the best franchises in the NBA.

What’s with you and tanking?
Not wanting to draft late in the first round for another 2-3 years, to a team that requires talent, isn’t being pro-tank. Acquiring Conley and being a fringe playoff team for 2-3 years is less important than building a team capable of competing years down the line. We’ve established a defensive identity. There isn’t an offense outside of Vuc and whatever vets that are acquired. That problem needs to be solved and won’t be answered drafting role players and watching vets shoulder the load for a mediocre team.

[zaymon]

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

In other words you want to tank.

Trading for Conley absolutely does not hurt Orlando's ability to add pieces through the draft. The Magic have ALL their picks moving forward.

Even in the biased and negative scenario you just used where Magic are at most a fringe playoff team, just like you don't know what #16 will be in this supposedly bad draft, you also don't know what #14 or #18 or whatever will be.

What we do know is that Weltman and Hammond have a track record of finding quality rotation players in all areas of the draft, in the G-L, and overseas. OG Anunoby, P Siakim, D Wright, F VanVleet, M Brogdon, N Powell, K Birch, I Briscoe, W Iwundu etc. The ones that are 2nd rounders and non-drafted types have incredible value because they come with the lowest minimum non-guaranteed salary possible in NBA.

Winning environments ARE the most proven developmental context. Its not about "positivity" crap. Its about playing in a higher competitive context vs teams actually trying and where accountability to teammates matters. Its more meaningful reps in 82+ meaningful games. The foundation is playing to win...that is the foundation of ALL the best player development teams, which just so happen to also be some of the best franchises in the NBA.

What’s with you and tanking?
Not wanting to draft late in the first round for another 2-3 years, to a team that requires talent, isn’t being pro-tank. Acquiring Conley and being a fringe playoff team for 2-3 years is less important than building a team capable of competing years down the line. We’ve established a defensive identity. There isn’t an offense outside of Vuc and whatever vets that are acquired. That problem needs to be solved and won’t be answered drafting role players and watching vets shoulder the load for a mediocre team.

If Fultz is healthy this trade can paradoxaly make us less competetive becouse we end up without starting level sg without potential rotation piece in #16 and without free agent flexibility in 2020. And if Conley injuries himself like he is used to boy oh boy...

[Bensational]

Acquiring Conley is banking on internal development of players to an extent that losing #16, and having a worse pick next year as well as following years, isn’t beneficial for the needs of where the offense is currently. Isaac, AG, Bamba, Fultz, and Iwundu haven’t necessarily instilled confidence that we will be set offensively in the future regardless of how much youth is on the roster.

It's a 2 year window, and it doesn't hurt our ability to add other pieces, other than instead of having Fournier and Mozgov to shop for diamond in the rough trade candidates, we'd be committed to Conley. I don't think lottery odds are a factor for us, given how WeHam like to remain competitive, so we likely wouldn't be looking at a good pick regardless (other than lottery luck).

If we lose the #16 to get it done, it rules out one more draft option, but if WeHam feel the draft has 'flattened out' again and think they've spotted a Brogdon-like prospect in the 2nd round, we might still be able to continue adding to our stock of youth whilst also remaining in playoff contention.

I definitely agree with ezzzp that competitive games will be the best development environments for our young guys anyway. But that might just be a philosophical point of difference between yourself and me.

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

If we're a fringe playoff team we'll likely be drafting in the mid 1st round. If we're a lottery team, Clifford is likely to keep us that competitive that we won't have high lottery odds and we'll be anywhere from 10-14. Not really an insurmountable difference there.

I've got to imagine that WeHam have an idea of what they're building towards with our future pieces. If they didn't believe in Bamba/Isaac/Fultz, they will probably be making moves for other potential improvements anyway. I don't really see Conley impeding that, unless the play is to renounce Vuc and Ross and try to clear enough space for a run at Russell or Brogdon.

However, the team can position themselves to be winning without having their foundation in place. Key players can be added with later picks, like Siakam or Brogdon. Those might eventually be consolidated for the likes of a future disgruntled Kawhi-like player.

It's really just a philosophy thing though. You prefer to go through the draft and nail that first foundational piece. That's a proven and credible way to do it. I was also all aboard that train for the first 6 years of our rebuild. Now, I'm happy to see a competitive team, and I feel confident we can keep adding to and improving from there. I'm happy to agree to disagree, because I totally get your position and think it's a fair position to take.

[VFX]

It's a 2 year window, and it doesn't hurt our ability to add other pieces, other than instead of having Fournier and Mozgov to shop for diamond in the rough trade candidates, we'd be committed to Conley. I don't think lottery odds are a factor for us, given how WeHam like to remain competitive, so we likely wouldn't be looking at a good pick regardless (other than lottery luck).

If we lose the #16 to get it done, it rules out one more draft option, but if WeHam feel the draft has 'flattened out' again and think they've spotted a Brogdon-like prospect in the 2nd round, we might still be able to continue adding to our stock of youth whilst also remaining in playoff contention.

I definitely agree with ezzzp that competitive games will be the best development environments for our young guys anyway. But that might just be a philosophical point of difference between yourself and me.

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

If we're a fringe playoff team we'll likely be drafting in the mid 1st round. If we're a lottery team, Clifford is likely to keep us that competitive that we won't have high lottery odds and we'll be anywhere from 10-14. Not really an insurmountable difference there.

I've got to imagine that WeHam have an idea of what they're building towards with our future pieces. If they didn't believe in Bamba/Isaac/Fultz, they will probably be making moves for other potential improvements anyway. I don't really see Conley impeding that, unless the play is to renounce Vuc and Ross and try to clear enough space for a run at Russell or Brogdon.

However, the team can position themselves to be winning without having their foundation in place. Key players can be added with later picks, like Siakam or Brogdon. Those might eventually be consolidated for the likes of a future disgruntled Kawhi-like player.

It's really just a philosophy thing though. You prefer to go through the draft and nail that first foundational piece. That's a proven and credible way to do it. I was also all aboard that train for the first 6 years of our rebuild. Now, I'm happy to see a competitive team, and I feel confident we can keep adding to and improving from there. I'm happy to agree to disagree, because I totally get your position and think it's a fair position to take.

I really do get both sides of it and know you do as well. The frustration comes with knowing that it takes multiple stars or elite players to make a contending team. That’s a difficult thing to do as a small market with little to no pull. Orlando has been ultimately boring to watch IMO regardless of direction or philosophy. That’s probably the worst outcome of either scenario. Not saying that wanting playoffs regardless of outcome is a bad thing, but I’d personally rather Orlando have a legitimate shot at something rather than merely happy to be in the postseason.

[Bensational]

The issue isn’t necessarily with consolidating Fournier and Mozgov because Orlando would be taking that back in Conleys contract. The 2 year window hurts Orlando’s ability to add pieces through the draft at the cost of remaining a fringe playoff team. Acquiring him also doesn’t vault Orlando into the winning environment capable of netting free agents that want to win. Memphis proves that.

#16 isn’t likely going to be a game changer, but we can’t be entirely sure yet. Trading a late first rounder in a weak draft isn’t the end of the world, but compounding that with a semi- competitive “maybe playoffs” roster doesn’t help either for future drafts. Picking 16-18 the next three years eliminates the draft as a decent option entirely with remaining obvious flaws to the offense.

Winning environments won’t always produce the best talent just like top tier draft picks won’t always be elite superstars. Does winning games make for a more positive environment? Sure. However, there has to be a foundation set first. Fultz could easily never see an nba court and Isaac/ AG could easily not be answers offensively when Orlando moves on from Vuc and theoretically Conley in this scenario.

Hennigan took shortcuts before his exit by trading picks and youth, before he new what he had, for the sake of being competitive. Let’s just say that he was on the right path before pushing all his chips in in fear for his job. The Magic shouldn’t be taking risks like forfeiting draft real estate for the sake of maybe going slightly further in the playoffs. Orlando isn’t that market.

If we're a fringe playoff team we'll likely be drafting in the mid 1st round. If we're a lottery team, Clifford is likely to keep us that competitive that we won't have high lottery odds and we'll be anywhere from 10-14. Not really an insurmountable difference there.

I've got to imagine that WeHam have an idea of what they're building towards with our future pieces. If they didn't believe in Bamba/Isaac/Fultz, they will probably be making moves for other potential improvements anyway. I don't really see Conley impeding that, unless the play is to renounce Vuc and Ross and try to clear enough space for a run at Russell or Brogdon.

However, the team can position themselves to be winning without having their foundation in place. Key players can be added with later picks, like Siakam or Brogdon. Those might eventually be consolidated for the likes of a future disgruntled Kawhi-like player.

It's really just a philosophy thing though. You prefer to go through the draft and nail that first foundational piece. That's a proven and credible way to do it. I was also all aboard that train for the first 6 years of our rebuild. Now, I'm happy to see a competitive team, and I feel confident we can keep adding to and improving from there. I'm happy to agree to disagree, because I totally get your position and think it's a fair position to take.

I really do get both sides of it and know you do as well. The frustration comes with knowing that it takes multiple stars or elite players to make a contending team. That’s a difficult thing to do as a small market with little to no pull. Orlando has been ultimately boring to watch IMO regardless of direction or philosophy. That’s probably the worst outcome of either scenario. Not saying that wanting playoffs regardless of outcome is a bad thing, but I’d personally rather Orlando have a legitimate shot at something rather than merely happy to be in the postseason.

Totes. Finding a way to load up with multiple stars is challenge enough. Finding the right ones who are capable of beating the current best is the next challenge (see Philly/Houston/Oklahoma/etc). Then hoping all that aligns with your team catching certain breaks - players being in top form, no injuries, no freak series performances from opponents, etc is the next step to winning. Finally, you've then got to find a way to stay at the top.

There's so much that needs to go right to build a contender.

[ezzzp]

In other words you want to tank.

Trading for Conley absolutely does not hurt Orlando's ability to add pieces through the draft. The Magic have ALL their picks moving forward.

Even in the biased and negative scenario you just used where Magic are at most a fringe playoff team, just like you don't know what #16 will be in this supposedly bad draft, you also don't know what #14 or #18 or whatever will be.

What we do know is that Weltman and Hammond have a track record of finding quality rotation players in all areas of the draft, in the G-L, and overseas. OG Anunoby, P Siakim, D Wright, F VanVleet, M Brogdon, N Powell, K Birch, I Briscoe, W Iwundu etc. The ones that are 2nd rounders and non-drafted types have incredible value because they come with the lowest minimum non-guaranteed salary possible in NBA.

Winning environments ARE the most proven developmental context. Its not about "positivity" crap. Its about playing in a higher competitive context vs teams actually trying and where accountability to teammates matters. Its more meaningful reps in 82+ meaningful games. The foundation is playing to win...that is the foundation of ALL the best player development teams, which just so happen to also be some of the best franchises in the NBA.

What’s with you and tanking?
Not wanting to draft late in the first round for another 2-3 years, to a team that requires talent, isn’t being pro-tank. Acquiring Conley and being a fringe playoff team for 2-3 years is less important than building a team capable of competing years down the line. We’ve established a defensive identity. There isn’t an offense outside of Vuc and whatever vets that are acquired. That problem needs to be solved and won’t be answered drafting role players and watching vets shoulder the load for a mediocre team.

What is it with you refusing to acknowledge that what you want is for the Magic to tank. You want the Magic to not add players that will cause them to win enough games to hurt their odds at getting a high lottery pick. That is intentionally constructing rosters to not succeed in order to game a draft system based on odds. You can do whatever semantic gymnastics you want to convince yourself that its not losing intentionally...but its not changing what it is.

You are not building a team capable of competing years down the line by constructing rosters full of youth learning how to lose and learning how to play for their own stats. That's why that strategy always fails and why those teams are always broken apart.

[Howard Mass]

I'm against trading #16.

The Magic can get a solid contributor there on a cheap rookie deal.

Mike Conley would be a good get though.

[Instincts]

Acquiring Conley is banking on internal development of players to an extent that losing #16, and having a worse pick next year as well as following years, isn’t beneficial for the needs of where the offense is currently. Isaac, AG, Bamba, Fultz, and Iwundu haven’t necessarily instilled confidence that we will be set offensively in the future regardless of how much youth is on the roster.

It's a 2 year window, and it doesn't hurt our ability to add other pieces, other than instead of having Fournier and Mozgov to shop for diamond in the rough trade candidates, we'd be committed to Conley. I don't think lottery odds are a factor for us, given how WeHam like to remain competitive, so we likely wouldn't be looking at a good pick regardless (other than lottery luck).

If we lose the #16 to get it done, it rules out one more draft option, but if WeHam feel the draft has 'flattened out' again and think they've spotted a Brogdon-like prospect in the 2nd round, we might still be able to continue adding to our stock of youth whilst also remaining in playoff contention.

I definitely agree with ezzzp that competitive games will be the best development environments for our young guys anyway. But that might just be a philosophical point of difference between yourself and me.

I don’t view a Conley trade as a pure bet on internal development, while of course we expect development from big, don’t underestimate the immediate impact Conley would have. Also Conley’s current contact expires on schedule to allow large cap space for the big 2021 free agent class, thus providing a clear path to another addition beyond internal development,

[Nyce_1]

The Hoop Collective Podcast

Brian Windhorst and Jackie McMulland talk to Tim McMahon (who covers the NBA for ESPN from Dallas) about Dallas' free agency and they mention Vucevic (starts at 34m mark).

• McMahon is certain that Dallas is keeping Dwight Powell. They speculate that it will be a wink wink renegotiate or more likely he opts out and they resign with MLE in order to clear enough to sign a max player or close to max guy.

• Regarding who that max player is, McMahon says that Kemba Walker has been talked about but there is discussion if he'd be a good fit with Doncic because he needs the ball in his hands. He says that Tobias Harris is certainly a possibility. Jackie asks about Jimmy Butler possibility and TM said he'd be very surprised if they pursued him.

• Windhorst throws out Vucevic's name...

McMahon says that there has been a lot of discussion there and thats because Vuc and Doncic are friends and share an agent (Bill Duffy).

He then says that the question there is fit with Porzingis as KP should play center in NBA.

McMahon says that he has talked directly to KP about that subject and that Porzingis says that he is fine with playing C and recognizes that in today's NBA he's best at C except in very specific matchups.

McMahon then says that this is the reason why Dwight Powell is such a good fit and possibly their starting center next year because he's such a good fit with Porzingis.

Windhorst throws in that along with the teams of other free agents (like Middelton, Harris and Kemba) - Orlando has the option to offer Vucevic a 5 year deal. He adds that Dallas and Brooklyn have interest in Middelton...then transitions the discussion into talking about how Milwaukee keeps their group together.

Thanks you for saving me the listen. Windhorst is annoying.

[Nyce_1]

In other words you want to tank.

Trading for Conley absolutely does not hurt Orlando's ability to add pieces through the draft. The Magic have ALL their picks moving forward.

Even in the biased and negative scenario you just used where Magic are at most a fringe playoff team, just like you don't know what #16 will be in this supposedly bad draft, you also don't know what #14 or #18 or whatever will be.

What we do know is that Weltman and Hammond have a track record of finding quality rotation players in all areas of the draft, in the G-L, and overseas. OG Anunoby, P Siakim, D Wright, F VanVleet, M Brogdon, N Powell, K Birch, I Briscoe, W Iwundu etc. The ones that are 2nd rounders and non-drafted types have incredible value because they come with the lowest minimum non-guaranteed salary possible in NBA.

Winning environments ARE the most proven developmental context. Its not about "positivity" crap. Its about playing in a higher competitive context vs teams actually trying and where accountability to teammates matters. Its more meaningful reps in 82+ meaningful games. The foundation is playing to win...that is the foundation of ALL the best player development teams, which just so happen to also be some of the best franchises in the NBA.

What’s with you and tanking?
Not wanting to draft late in the first round for another 2-3 years, to a team that requires talent, isn’t being pro-tank. Acquiring Conley and being a fringe playoff team for 2-3 years is less important than building a team capable of competing years down the line. We’ve established a defensive identity. There isn’t an offense outside of Vuc and whatever vets that are acquired. That problem needs to be solved and won’t be answered drafting role players and watching vets shoulder the load for a mediocre team.

If Fultz is healthy this trade can paradoxaly make us less competetive becouse we end up without starting level sg without potential rotation piece in #16 and without free agent flexibility in 2020. And if Conley injuries himself like he is used to boy oh boy...

If Fultz is healthy, it makes us less competitive? Huh? What?

I guarantee you our FO does not see Fultz exclusively as a PG. They see him a Guard with great skill. If he is healthy, he'll be on the floor as a PG or with whomever else is playing PG.

Hypothetically:
Conley/ Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba

...could be a heavily used lineup.

[zaymon]

What’s with you and tanking?
Not wanting to draft late in the first round for another 2-3 years, to a team that requires talent, isn’t being pro-tank. Acquiring Conley and being a fringe playoff team for 2-3 years is less important than building a team capable of competing years down the line. We’ve established a defensive identity. There isn’t an offense outside of Vuc and whatever vets that are acquired. That problem needs to be solved and won’t be answered drafting role players and watching vets shoulder the load for a mediocre team.

If Fultz is healthy this trade can paradoxaly make us less competetive becouse we end up without starting level sg without potential rotation piece in #16 and without free agent flexibility in 2020. And if Conley injuries himself like he is used to boy oh boy...

If Fultz is healthy, it makes us less competitive? Huh? What?

I guarantee you our FO does not see Fultz exclusively as a PG. They see him a Guard with great skill. If he is healthy, he'll be on the floor as a PG or with whomever else is playing PG.

Hypothetically:
Conley/ Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba

...could be a heavily used lineup.

We traded for Fultz becouse his strength is playing on ball and now we want to force him off the ball ? Doesnt make sense to me. Fournier is a better fit next to Fultz and i am not even mentioning defense. 6.1+6.5 vs 6.5+6.7. Second option obviously more flexible. You take into account Conley age, injury risk, contract + #16 and i say its not worth it. Still i can be wrong and you right so i wont be too angry if that happens.

[MasterGMer]

What’s with you and tanking?
Not wanting to draft late in the first round for another 2-3 years, to a team that requires talent, isn’t being pro-tank. Acquiring Conley and being a fringe playoff team for 2-3 years is less important than building a team capable of competing years down the line. We’ve established a defensive identity. There isn’t an offense outside of Vuc and whatever vets that are acquired. That problem needs to be solved and won’t be answered drafting role players and watching vets shoulder the load for a mediocre team.

If Fultz is healthy this trade can paradoxaly make us less competetive becouse we end up without starting level sg without potential rotation piece in #16 and without free agent flexibility in 2020. And if Conley injuries himself like he is used to boy oh boy...

If Fultz is healthy, it makes us less competitive? Huh? What?

I guarantee you our FO does not see Fultz exclusively as a PG. They see him a Guard with great skill. If he is healthy, he'll be on the floor as a PG or with whomever else is playing PG.

Hypothetically:
Conley/ Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba

...could be a heavily used lineup.

Fultz won't play off guard. He will come off the bench being the sixth man of the team handling the point

[basketballRob]

The talent at 16 this year seems as good as many of our lottery years. You could argue that almost any player we take at 16 could've been a top 6 pick in other drafts.