2023-2024 Regular Season Game 10/In-Season Tournament Game 1: Orlando Magic (5-4) at Brooklyn Nets (5-5) - 7:30pm

[VFX]

We need to figure out how to bust zone defense without turning the ball over or jacking 3s. There are 4 easy ways.

1. High post, which we do but Mo has to flash and then make a quick move to disrupt the D. Currently our high post just holds the ball way too long before making a move. This allows the zone to encircle the high post man.

2. Dunker spot. Cut back door or lob. In highschool my coach would have us run side line to side line back dooring constantly if we had a zone thrown at us. It works.

3. Load the corners. Make 1 guy in the zone guard 2 players. Someones going to come help which creates a hole.

4. Multiple Screens. 2 high ball screens will overhelm. confuse, disrupt, put pressure on the zone.

This is basic stuff it worries me this team struggles with it. Makes me wonder what Moses is doing

That’s all well and good. Have yet to see it happen consistently under a Mosely led team.

He’s a “defensive specialist” coach and our offensive coordinator is a guy younger than Ingles that was some video coordinator that has done the job for like a year.

[Skybox]

We stop tanking and immediately people are in here acting like we need to be competing for championships TODAY

All they need to do is actually pick a lane. Are they winning or are they developing?

If they want to actually try and win - then make some trades. Cash in some assets and get some better talent in here to compliment the young core (Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Black and ideally Jett). They'll have plenty of young talent left. They could make a major trade and still have 4-5 lotto picks from the last 4 drafts in their rotation, ya know?

If they want to keep developing, then they need to stick Black on the ball and force him to get developmental reps. Make him initiate some pick and rolls and live with the inevitable mistakes. Put Howard and Houstan in the rotation and let him take those catch and shoot reps that are currently not filled.

They're trying to do both (win and develop), but they're doing both halfheartedly. And it's going to end up where they miss the play in (or get bounced in the first play in game) *and* they're not going to have a clue if Anthony Black or Jett Howard or Caleb Houstan can actually be heavy minute players on a team with real winning expectations next season.

And if the answer is "oh well what's the rush, they'll add talent next year" - my response is why wait? The free agency market looks grim. They will likely need to trade for guys they feel are good enough and warrant being extended to long-term contracts.

Adding established players who aren’t just “mentors” is the middle ground. You can’t just develop half your team together. Better to invest in the 3 or 4 that will carry you into the next decade by getting them some real help. Paolo can score, Paolo can create, etc…but why make it exceedingly difficult by not having outside scoring support? We see it every night…defenses gamble to crowd Paolo (& Franz) and dare the rest to beat them. It’s an excellent bet. We’re all pleased when Paolo puts up 22…but it could have been 30 if he wasn’t having to beat 2 guys all night. Same for playmaking. Having a legit scoring threat in the backcourt helps Paolo (& Franz) develop AND win now.

“Taking shots away” is not the way to think…it’s “taking double teams away”.

That’s winning, that’s development, that’s just good basketball…also respect and player retention. These guys aren’t stupid. He and his handlers recognize the heavy lifting needed because they don’t give him the support his game warrants. He’s an Alpha and he knows that he’s worthy of that respect and it’s short-sighted to ignore that. Like watching Troy Aikman getting hit on every play his rookie year because he had no offensive line or weapons…the rest of the team caught up but he also could’ve washed out with injuries or demanded out if the team didn’t get proactive for his protection (in basketball, at least advancement if not protection). Paolo plays bully ball, but that’s not sustainable against multiple defenders.

[drsd]

If the Magic make 11.5 3's a game at the same amount of attempts. What % is that?

THe Magic is on 29.9 3PA per game. So making 11.5 is 38.4%.

That percentage line would have the Magic as the third best 3-point shooting team. For perspective, the Magic is currently shooting 33.3% with their three ball.

[drsd]

Gut feeling thoughts:
The Magic guards were all awful this game, except Ingles.
Orlando's front court players were excellent, universally.

[Skybox]

This "by committee" stuff ain't it mose.... You got Richard Jefferson wondering why paolo isn't getting more shots.... You got haslem roasting us on national TV wondering why paolo isn't getting more shots.... I'm starting to wonder if Mose even has an offensive identity.....it seems he has a "phrase" every season.... Last year it was, "we're going to play with pace space and the pass" this year it's "we're doing it by committee" what's it going to be next year I wonder?

This should've been a big game for P5, like a 30 or 40 ball but..... Its hard for that to happen when he'll get a touch then won't see the ball for the next 3 possessions because we're doing it "by committee" trying to keep everyone happy isn't how it's done in today's NBA.... Stars run the league and we need to play through them a bit more... Franz and paolo should both be approaching if not surpassing 20 shots per

Sent from the phone in my hands

Fun fact: Victor Wembanyama is averaging more FGA per game than Paolo.

I'd love to know Paolo's FGA per game rank. I bet it would be comical.

Paolo ranks 54th in FGA per game.

Here are some players getting more shots up than Paolo:

Keegan Murray
Gordon Hayward
Shaedon Sharpe
Caris LeVert
Nikola Vučević
Tyler Herro
Cam Thomas

Way to build up a star Mose...

He doesn't need to be in the top 10 but on this offensively inept team, he should be getting way more looks than he's currently getting.

You can’t develop a whole team “by committee “…focus on giving Paolo & Franz what they need. It’s not a free for all with 12 guys all hoping to develop together…that’s fantasy

[drsd]

Box score thoughts:
The Magic lost the FG% battle and lost the game.
Unfortunately, the Magic was outrebounded on the offensive end.

Howard averaged a missed three pointer per minute. Sad.
Without Ingles stellar shooting, the rest of the Magic was 30% with the long ball.

[jezzerinho]

I said before the game the bench would have to win this game for us. They layed a giant egg. Cole was really poor, Isaac ineffectual, Moe's nickname should be Moements, because he swings from v good ones to pretty bad ones.

Nets are a v experienced team with a lot of savvy and it showed. Orl looked very naive out there at times. Gotta grow up faster.

[Knightro]

Adding established players who aren’t just “mentors” is the middle ground. You can’t just develop half your team together. Better to invest in the 3 or 4 that will carry you into the next decade by getting them some real help. Paolo can score, Paolo can create, etc…but why make it exceedingly difficult by not having outside scoring support? We see it every night…defenses gamble to crowd Paolo (& Franz) and dare the rest to beat them. It’s an excellent bet. We’re all pleased when Paolo puts up 22…but it could have been 30 if he wasn’t having to beat 2 guys all night. Same for playmaking. Having a legit scoring threat in the backcourt helps Paolo (& Franz) develop AND win now.

“Taking shots away” is not the way to think…it’s “taking double teams away”.

That’s winning, that’s development, that’s just good basketball…also respect and player retention. These guys aren’t stupid. He and his handlers recognize the heavy lifting needed because they don’t give him the support his game warrants. He’s an Alpha and he knows that he’s worthy of that respect and it’s short-sighted to ignore that. Like watching Troy Aikman getting hit on every play his rookie year because he had no offensive line or weapons…the rest of the team caught up but he also could’ve washed out with injuries or demanded out if the team didn’t get proactive for his protection (in basketball, at least advancement if not protection). Paolo plays bully ball, but that’s not sustainable against multiple defenders.

I couldn’t agree with this more.

It’s not impatience that’s causing people like myself to want the Magic to make consolidation trades. I know there’s not a trade out there that can make the Magic into a title contender *right now*, but no one is realistically suggesting that either.

It’s not even a desire to *just* be in the playoffs either. That’s not a good enough outcome.

Why people are stumping so hard for trades is because there’s an understanding what’s coming in the future in terms of the currently very clean cap sheet becoming not so clean in relatively short order.

The Magic have a TON of money to spend this offseason and on paper there isn’t a whole lot going to be out there to spend it on. So the Houston option, spending big on unrestricted free agents like FVV and Brooks, doesn’t seem like an super viable or appealing option for the Magic.

So what does that leave? Two paths…

Path No. 1 is that they opt to keep playing the “give the incumbent veterans like Fultz and Gary big year 1 salaries with a team option on year 2 just like they did with Ingles and Moritz and just kick the can down the road on actually adding real talent again.

Path No. 2 is they actually cash in some of their chips (expirings, picks, swaps, etc) for some established veterans in their primes who can assume big minute roles either as starters or rotation players and are better than the guys currently filling those roles.

Guys who can raise your floor while still having Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Black and potentially Jett’s long-term development to determine where your overall ceiling ends up.

[basketballRob]

Just terrible coaching. They plan practices the day before b2b's and then wake them up early to do shootarounds. I don't think our current coaching staff understands players' legs at all. There has to be a reason for our horrific record in b2bs.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[JoshuaPotter]

Seems like we have a real Jakyl and Hyde personal forming on our team. Will the real Orlando Magic please stand up?

I would say good game, nothing felt great in there. The starting of a good team is finding ways to grind out ugly wins because wins are all that matters.

That being said, I wouldn't blow the whole thing up because of this 1 game. Keep at it kids.

[eyriq]

Morning after thoughts: Terrible ******* game.

[Skybox]

Adding established players who aren’t just “mentors” is the middle ground. You can’t just develop half your team together. Better to invest in the 3 or 4 that will carry you into the next decade by getting them some real help. Paolo can score, Paolo can create, etc…but why make it exceedingly difficult by not having outside scoring support? We see it every night…defenses gamble to crowd Paolo (& Franz) and dare the rest to beat them. It’s an excellent bet. We’re all pleased when Paolo puts up 22…but it could have been 30 if he wasn’t having to beat 2 guys all night. Same for playmaking. Having a legit scoring threat in the backcourt helps Paolo (& Franz) develop AND win now.

“Taking shots away” is not the way to think…it’s “taking double teams away”.

That’s winning, that’s development, that’s just good basketball…also respect and player retention. These guys aren’t stupid. He and his handlers recognize the heavy lifting needed because they don’t give him the support his game warrants. He’s an Alpha and he knows that he’s worthy of that respect and it’s short-sighted to ignore that. Like watching Troy Aikman getting hit on every play his rookie year because he had no offensive line or weapons…the rest of the team caught up but he also could’ve washed out with injuries or demanded out if the team didn’t get proactive for his protection (in basketball, at least advancement if not protection). Paolo plays bully ball, but that’s not sustainable against multiple defenders.

I couldn’t agree with this more.

It’s not impatience that’s causing people like myself to want the Magic to make consolidation trades. I know there’s not a trade out there that can make the Magic into a title contender *right now*, but no one is realistically suggesting that either.

It’s not even a desire to *just* be in the playoffs either. That’s not a good enough outcome.

Why people are stumping so hard for trades is because there’s an understanding what’s coming in the future in terms of the currently very clean cap sheet becoming not so clean in relatively short order.

The Magic have a TON of money to spend this offseason and on paper there isn’t a whole lot going to be out there to spend it on. So the Houston option, spending big on unrestricted free agents like FVV and Brooks, doesn’t seem like an super viable or appealing option for the Magic.

So what does that leave? Two paths…

Path No. 1 is that they opt to keep playing the “give the incumbent veterans like Fultz and Gary big year 1 salaries with a team option on year 2 just like they did with Ingles and Moritz and just kick the can down the road on actually adding real talent again.

Path No. 2 is they actually cash in some of their chips (expirings, picks, swaps, etc) for some established veterans in their primes who can assume big minute roles either as starters or rotation players and are better than the guys currently filling those roles.

Guys who can raise your floor while still having Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Black and potentially Jett’s long-term development to determine where your overall ceiling ends up.

MIN is just beginning to peak with a solid mix of vets and Edwards hitting star level...but every knowledgable podcast is saying that "the roster CAN'T be returned NEXT year as is-due to financial constraints"...I don't know the exact reasons-whether punitive charges or just really can't due to new CBA. Let's not do that...now's the time. Don't trade for $40m marginal upgrade Lavine, just find the right pieces...Simons at $25 & Claxton at $18? Brogdon at $22.5 & trade WCJ + pick to CLE for Allen (+$7m)? etc...we don't have to break the future to improve AND develop now....having $50k in cap space doesn't equal superstar (not for this team or this summer)

[bigdogdylan5]

Just terrible coaching. They plan practices the day before b2b's and then wake them up early to do shootarounds. I don't think our current coaching staff understands players' legs at all. There has to be a reason for our horrific record in b2bs.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Ok man I think you have gotten your point across with the practice on Monday. We don’t know how intense it was. You can have a light practice that’s more than a walkthrough. This loss was not because we were tired it’s because we can’t break a zone by shooting and the live ball turnovers were nuts last night (mostly by Cole). Our wins this year have had a disturbing amount of reliance on Cole and/or Mo going nuts. When they had bad games it all fell apart. With our total disregard for shooting it means we have to play perfect from a turnover and defensive perspective that is a lot of pressure for a young team.

[Bergmaniac]

We can talk all day about the offensive issues, but this particular game was lost mostly on defense. We had 130 DRTG, which is awful for any team, but especially one whose strength is supposed to be on the defensive end. The only time the defence looked good was when Isaac was in. The transition D was particularly poor. Of course, all the live turnovers didn't help, but the defense was far from great in the halfcourt too. yes, Dinwiddie hit a few absurd shots, but he is capable of that when he got hot and the Nets get a lot of open corner 3s throughout.

Cole had a nightmare and still ended with +1 somehow which shows the unreliability of the single game plus/minus. Franz was excellent for 3 quarters but was really awful in the fourth, it really seemed that his legs had gone at this point. Black does a lot of good things, but he needs to be more assertive on offense, he can't pass up every shot except corner 3s, the opponents are starting to expect him to pass on every drive which makes him easy to defend in such situations. Paolo shooting well from3 and Ingles finally making a few 3s in a row are encouraging signs but ended up getting wasted.

But I agree with Knightro that Franz, Paolo and 3 defnesive specialists isn't really viable long term and we need a guard with more scoring and playmaking ability. Paolo and Franz have put good numbers in our wins this year, but the offense is still pretty bad and
a lot of our success has been thanks to the bench being great. Our two starting lineups currently both have a 105.4 ORTG, which would be second to last in the league. Most worrying is that Paolo and Franz playing together this season have a 97.7 ORTG, which is just atrocious.

[eyriq]

Adding established players who aren’t just “mentors” is the middle ground. You can’t just develop half your team together. Better to invest in the 3 or 4 that will carry you into the next decade by getting them some real help. Paolo can score, Paolo can create, etc…but why make it exceedingly difficult by not having outside scoring support? We see it every night…defenses gamble to crowd Paolo (& Franz) and dare the rest to beat them. It’s an excellent bet. We’re all pleased when Paolo puts up 22…but it could have been 30 if he wasn’t having to beat 2 guys all night. Same for playmaking. Having a legit scoring threat in the backcourt helps Paolo (& Franz) develop AND win now.

“Taking shots away” is not the way to think…it’s “taking double teams away”.

That’s winning, that’s development, that’s just good basketball…also respect and player retention. These guys aren’t stupid. He and his handlers recognize the heavy lifting needed because they don’t give him the support his game warrants. He’s an Alpha and he knows that he’s worthy of that respect and it’s short-sighted to ignore that. Like watching Troy Aikman getting hit on every play his rookie year because he had no offensive line or weapons…the rest of the team caught up but he also could’ve washed out with injuries or demanded out if the team didn’t get proactive for his protection (in basketball, at least advancement if not protection). Paolo plays bully ball, but that’s not sustainable against multiple defenders.

I couldn’t agree with this more.

It’s not impatience that’s causing people like myself to want the Magic to make consolidation trades. I know there’s not a trade out there that can make the Magic into a title contender *right now*, but no one is realistically suggesting that either.

It’s not even a desire to *just* be in the playoffs either. That’s not a good enough outcome.

Why people are stumping so hard for trades is because there’s an understanding what’s coming in the future in terms of the currently very clean cap sheet becoming not so clean in relatively short order.

The Magic have a TON of money to spend this offseason and on paper there isn’t a whole lot going to be out there to spend it on. So the Houston option, spending big on unrestricted free agents like FVV and Brooks, doesn’t seem like an super viable or appealing option for the Magic.

So what does that leave? Two paths…

Path No. 1 is that they opt to keep playing the “give the incumbent veterans like Fultz and Gary big year 1 salaries with a team option on year 2 just like they did with Ingles and Moritz and just kick the can down the road on actually adding real talent again.

Path No. 2 is they actually cash in some of their chips (expirings, picks, swaps, etc) for some established veterans in their primes who can assume big minute roles either as starters or rotation players and are better than the guys currently filling those roles.

Guys who can raise your floor while still having Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Black and potentially Jett’s long-term development to determine where your overall ceiling ends up.

We should be at the point where there is a clear directive to build around Paolo and Franz. A novel thought, for me at least, is that I think with that clarity comes a prioritisation of their development. This means that the development of Suggs, Black, and Jett takes a back seat.

There is also a clear priority to maximize the future potential of a build around Paolo and Franz. This means maximizing the talent around them when it matters most, 4 seasons from now. This is where prioritizing the development of Suggs, Black, and Jett gets increased importance.

So, two goals.

1. Maximize the development of Paolo and Franz in the near-term.
2. Maximize the talent around them 4 years from now.

I think a hybrid win-now, slowly develop lotto talent, maintain flexibility position makes sense in this context.

Instead of cashing in assets for a consolidation trade now, I think I'd rather exchange assets that are about to expire for future assets that we can cash in 3 to 4 years from now. Kicking the can down the road kind of makes sense.

[bigdogdylan5]

JJ Redick on his podcast really nailed it and this Nets game was exactly his concern. Magic are now 4th worst in turnover % 9th worst in 3 frequency and 3rd worst in three point percentage 4th worst in 3 pointers made. It’s amazing we’re 500 but the saving grace has been defense and FTA. These critical offensive numbers put a huge burden on a young team.

Also it’s getting really dumb that Mosley goes out in these press conferences and blames the TOs every time and waves past the 3 point issues. Blaming a young team for turning the ball over a lot is like blaming a dog for sniffing his butt yea it’s not great but it’s what they do.

Now I get it that the offensive focus this year is trying to improve the turnovers but everyone who analyzes basketball says the same thing about the magic. The lack of shooting is putting a hard ceiling on this team. We all need to adjust expectations. This off-season they need to address these issues.

[eyriq]

How do we maximize the development of Paolo and Franz while maintaining roster flexibility and without totally blocking the development of Suggs, Black, and Jett?

[Medford]

Got frustrated about Jalens Game. I'm okay with his boneheaded moments, cause he usually makes up for these by playing great defense. But man, he has to stop the 'acting for a foul call stuff' and the complaining to the refs while the game is still running.
He left his teammates playing undermanned multiple times while he spend valuable seconds for this crap. And wasn't team worst -27 because he played a terrible game or had a bad shooting night, but for his non basketball related antics.

Cole is just slumping and he appears to be overwhelmed by the speed of the game right now.
As long as it goes it might be best to use him as a '3withoutD guy'... his open, spot up shots are still looking fine.

Saying that I'm confident both of these guys will be fine soon and ready to play to their full potential.

Talking about potential... it kind of worries me why the coaches didn't give AB some burn on play initiating. It couldn't be worse than with Cole or Jalen and you can at least assume AB has some talent when it comes to decision making.
It's not like there are other options as long Markelle isn't healthy. Jingles is doing a good job with the second unit, but it wouldn't make sense to play him with the starters.

Lastly I'm a bit worried about the teams stamina.
Magic are looking great when they are attacking early after a rebound or turnover. Everybody is moving, defenders on their heels... no need for outstanding playmakers or floorstretchers. Offense is just clicking by a lot of movement and a couple of quick and easy passes... and it is a joy to watch.
After the first ten games I got the impression it always slows down in the second half. Part of it surely is because of adjustments by the opposing coaches, but even if there isn't any early offense you shouldn't stop to cut, screen or play quick passes.
Our offense becomes more and more stagnant in second halves, making me wonder if the guys are gassed or if it's part of the gameplan. If you wanna play slow paced iso ball you better have multiple guys to stretch the floor.

It'll be a fun season. The 5-5 record is fine seeing lots of room for improvement... even without a single trade.

[Def Swami]

JJ Redick on his podcast really nailed it and this Nets game was exactly his concern. Magic are now 4th worst in turnover % 9th worst in 3 frequency and 3rd worst in three point percentage 4th worst in 3 pointers made. It’s amazing we’re 500 but the saving grace has been defense and FTA. These critical offensive numbers put a huge burden on a young team.

We play an uphill math battle every night.

Too many turnovers and couldn't control the boards last night. And their guards got hot. Dinwiddie just always crushes us.

[Skybox]

Adding established players who aren’t just “mentors” is the middle ground. You can’t just develop half your team together. Better to invest in the 3 or 4 that will carry you into the next decade by getting them some real help. Paolo can score, Paolo can create, etc…but why make it exceedingly difficult by not having outside scoring support? We see it every night…defenses gamble to crowd Paolo (& Franz) and dare the rest to beat them. It’s an excellent bet. We’re all pleased when Paolo puts up 22…but it could have been 30 if he wasn’t having to beat 2 guys all night. Same for playmaking. Having a legit scoring threat in the backcourt helps Paolo (& Franz) develop AND win now.

“Taking shots away” is not the way to think…it’s “taking double teams away”.

That’s winning, that’s development, that’s just good basketball…also respect and player retention. These guys aren’t stupid. He and his handlers recognize the heavy lifting needed because they don’t give him the support his game warrants. He’s an Alpha and he knows that he’s worthy of that respect and it’s short-sighted to ignore that. Like watching Troy Aikman getting hit on every play his rookie year because he had no offensive line or weapons…the rest of the team caught up but he also could’ve washed out with injuries or demanded out if the team didn’t get proactive for his protection (in basketball, at least advancement if not protection). Paolo plays bully ball, but that’s not sustainable against multiple defenders.

I couldn’t agree with this more.

It’s not impatience that’s causing people like myself to want the Magic to make consolidation trades. I know there’s not a trade out there that can make the Magic into a title contender *right now*, but no one is realistically suggesting that either.

It’s not even a desire to *just* be in the playoffs either. That’s not a good enough outcome.

Why people are stumping so hard for trades is because there’s an understanding what’s coming in the future in terms of the currently very clean cap sheet becoming not so clean in relatively short order.

The Magic have a TON of money to spend this offseason and on paper there isn’t a whole lot going to be out there to spend it on. So the Houston option, spending big on unrestricted free agents like FVV and Brooks, doesn’t seem like an super viable or appealing option for the Magic.

So what does that leave? Two paths…

Path No. 1 is that they opt to keep playing the “give the incumbent veterans like Fultz and Gary big year 1 salaries with a team option on year 2 just like they did with Ingles and Moritz and just kick the can down the road on actually adding real talent again.

Path No. 2 is they actually cash in some of their chips (expirings, picks, swaps, etc) for some established veterans in their primes who can assume big minute roles either as starters or rotation players and are better than the guys currently filling those roles.

Guys who can raise your floor while still having Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Black and potentially Jett’s long-term development to determine where your overall ceiling ends up.

We should be at the point where there is a clear directive to build around Paolo and Franz. A novel thought, for me at least, is that I think with that clarity comes a prioritisation of their development. This means that the development of Suggs, Black, and Jett takes a back seat.

There is also a clear priority to maximize the future potential of a build around Paolo and Franz. This means maximizing the talent around them when it matters most, 4 seasons from now. This is where prioritizing the development of Suggs, Black, and Jett gets increased importance.

So, two goals.

1. Maximize the development of Paolo and Franz in the near-term.
2. Maximize the talent around them 4 years from now.

I think a hybrid win-now, slowly develop lotto talent, maintain flexibility position makes sense in this context.

Instead of cashing in assets for a consolidation trade now, I think I'd rather exchange assets that are about to expire for future assets that we can cash in 3 to 4 years from now. Kicking the can down the road kind of makes sense.

Ok...don't disagree, but how do you "develop" Paolo & Franz without upgrading the talent around them to better fit their games?
-For example, I get having no urgency to rush Jett in...but, ultimately, their development boils down to a personnel thing, IMO.
-Also, say we acquire Quickley, Simons, or Brogdon for appx $25m/yr for expirings & picks...I don't see how that is, in any way, a setback or reprioritization of the Big 2...It would only help their 'development' (which is already "in-game" experience, not abstract).

*We've got a lot of good players on good deals but we're 100% at the point where team construction > keeping good guys. Not singling them out as guys I don't want, but Cole, WCJ, Fultz, M. Wagner might best be sacrificed for better fitting guys - if needed. It would take a BIG upgrade to get me to consider Suggs or Black, because I feel they ARE/WILL BE great fits soon - but wouldn't rule it out. Nobody needs to individually defend those guys - I like them all. Just making a point about what we need and how we're presently more deep than good.