Official 2025 Offseason Thread

[GelbeWand09]

That Tatum & Brown argument is so bad. No matter on which side of the argument you are but this is just a bad example. Who cares if they won in the 7th year. They were a top team from almost day one and reached countless conference finals and semifinals til they won the chip. Winning a ship has so much to do with luck but you have to have a team that got there to even have the luck.

It’s not the luck aspect that is my issue. It’s this idea that guys are winning titles at 22 and 23. Most guys don’t start winning until several years in when they are mid to late 20s or they have a vet superstar like a Shaq. LeBron, MJ, Joker, etc all did not win title until their late 20s. To expect Paolo and Franz to do so is crazy to me especially since they are still learning to play.

I can understand that view. Its definitely harder but like i wrote in the comment below that comment. My main problem is that Weltman doesnt even gave them a chance to have playoff success because of the roster construction. They are probably too young (and not good enough yet) to win a title but they are not too young to win a playoff series and this was pretty much torpedoed by Weltman sitting on his hands like no other GM in the leaque.
Do we really need to ignore shooting and playmaking like almost no other team just because our stars are only 22? Now he has to address tons of things in one off season instead of trying to improve the team steadily over the years.

[Rainwater]

It took Tatum and Brown 7 seasons to win a ship. Franz, Suggs and Paolo still have time to develop even further

Rookie Tatum ( 19) and sophomore Brown (21) went to Eastern Conference Finals, as starters in game 7.
Tatum led them in scoring.

Starting 5: Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Baynes. Smart off bench.


We won't just go from wining .500 to winning title. We are yet to win playoff series.

This whole planning for some imaginary year where everybody is "ready to win" is crazy talk.

Kawhi Leonard won first title at age of 22.
Duncan at age of 22.
Parker at age of 21.
Kobe 21.

Needless to say that whole bunch of superstars peak in early 20s and due injuries their "prime" isn't what most people view as prime.
Griffin, Carter, Tracy all peaked around 24.


Tatum himself is now screwed because he has massive injury to recover from, Brown will need rest or surgery. Both are in their alleged "prime" today.

Just sitting and waiting until players hit some arbitrary age is suicidal. Luxury tax, repetitive luxury tax, aprons will chew you up and force in rebuild very soon. Magic aren't even signed Banchero yet and they are already at first apron. Good luck playing Jett Howard and Tristan Da Silva, Bol Bol & other scrubs in 3 years because you can't afford nba players.

This needs context

Kawhi had Duncan, Manu, and Parker
Duncan had David Robinson
Kobe had Prime Shaq

None of these teams were solely dependent on 22 and 23 year olds as their sole core players when they won the title. I feel like these teams were closer to an OKC where they had a mixture current stars and rising stars. Unless you already have stars to pair with them, the vast majority of guys are not winning titles at such a young age. It’s typically happening in your late to mid twenties. The idea the Magic have failed to this point is just not fair.

[eyriq]

It took Tatum and Brown 7 seasons to win a ship. Franz, Suggs and Paolo still have time to develop even further

Rookie Tatum ( 19) and sophomore Brown (21) went to Eastern Conference Finals, as starters in game 7.
Tatum led them in scoring.

Starting 5: Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Baynes. Smart off bench.


We won't just go from wining .500 to winning title. We are yet to win playoff series.

This whole planning for some imaginary year where everybody is "ready to win" is crazy talk.

Kawhi Leonard won first title at age of 22.
Duncan at age of 22.
Parker at age of 21.
Kobe 21.

Needless to say that whole bunch of superstars peak in early 20s and due injuries their "prime" isn't what most people view as prime.
Griffin, Carter, Tracy all peaked around 24.


Tatum himself is now screwed because he has massive injury to recover from, Brown will need rest or surgery. Both are in their alleged "prime" today.

Just sitting and waiting until players hit some arbitrary age is suicidal. Luxury tax, repetitive luxury tax, aprons will chew you up and force in rebuild very soon. Magic aren't even signed Banchero yet and they are already at first apron. Good luck playing Jett Howard and Tristan Da Silva, Bol Bol & other scrubs in 3 years because you can't afford nba players.

This needs context

Kawhi had Duncan, Manu, and Parker
Duncan had David Robinson
Kobe had Prime Shaq

None of these teams were solely dependent on 22 and 23 year olds as their sole core players when they won the title. I feel like these teams were closer to an OKC where they had a mixture current stars and rising stars. Unless you already have stars to pair with them, the vast majority of guys are not winning titles at such a young age. It’s typically happening in your late to mid twenties. The idea the Magic have failed to this point is just not fair.

Absolutely agree, thank you for bringing the needed context.

It's easy to romanticize early titles without acknowledging the Hall of Fame support structures behind those young stars. Kawhi had an elite infrastructure, Kobe had Shaq, Duncan had Robinson. None were tasked with dragging a team as a 1A option in their early 20s.

The Magic are building around multiple young cornerstones simultaneously... that takes time and careful cap navigation, especially under the new CBA. Rushing the process or expecting deep playoff runs before this core has even won a series is ignoring the developmental curve that 99% of stars actually follow.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Read on Twitter

Yeah this chart makes a lot of sense. Paolo in the bad shot quality good result category. King of mid range and tough fadeaways. KCP and Franz in the great shot quality poor shooting.

Million dollar question- how/why was KCP so bad here.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Yeah this chart makes a lot of sense. Paolo in the bad shot quality good result category. King of mid range and tough fadeaways. KCP and Franz in the great shot quality poor shooting.

Million dollar question- how/why was KCP so bad here.

To be fair, this is for playoff games only. So this is just a 5 game sample size for the Orlando guys.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Read on Twitter

Yeah this chart makes a lot of sense. Paolo in the bad shot quality good result category. King of mid range and tough fadeaways. KCP and Franz in the great shot quality poor shooting.

Million dollar question- how/why was KCP so bad here.

To be fair, this is for playoff games only. So this is just a 5 game sample size for the Orlando guys.

agreed, just goes to show we were creating decent looks just couldn't hit the red side of the barn.. Also noted we only have 3 players on that chart so our depth or lack of depth killed us as usual.

[Idiosyncratic]

The new CBA and the aprons are working

I would say the amount the CBA is "working" is heavily dependent on how much you enjoy parity as a fan.

It certainly feels like we're rapidly approaching a place where teams are basically gonna get a 2-3 year contention window at best and then have to reshuffle things because of finances.

Yeah this kind of scares me and we will see how it plays out long term. There are still going to be teams that find ways to be good for long periods by being smarter than the rest or through luck or having a ton of picks stockpiled already (OKC) or being able to attract the best players, but I am worried about this for your average team. Rebuilding and tanking and going through those talent acquisition seasons SUCKS. It is horrible. Like there is good value in having a watchable product, I know titles are the main goals, but I think sometimes we take for granted fun seasons that don't end in titles.

So I actually agree that our window could be opening up and maybe a big move could make a lot of sense given the state of the East. But at the same time I like to hope they can make moves to where they stay competitive for a number of years and have multiple chances because that thought of those tanky rebuilding years makes me shudder.

[Fortune Teller]

The home page of espn.com gives a glimpse of what the Magic are lacking. The four conference finalists are represented by one player each and they're all guards: Brunson, Haliburton, Edwards and Gilgeous-Alexander.

Still unclear what Jeff plans to do with our backcourt after 8 years on the job.

[pepe1991]

It took Tatum and Brown 7 seasons to win a ship. Franz, Suggs and Paolo still have time to develop even further

Rookie Tatum ( 19) and sophomore Brown (21) went to Eastern Conference Finals, as starters in game 7.
Tatum led them in scoring.

Starting 5: Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Baynes. Smart off bench.


We won't just go from wining .500 to winning title. We are yet to win playoff series.

This whole planning for some imaginary year where everybody is "ready to win" is crazy talk.

Kawhi Leonard won first title at age of 22.
Duncan at age of 22.
Parker at age of 21.
Kobe 21.

Needless to say that whole bunch of superstars peak in early 20s and due injuries their "prime" isn't what most people view as prime.
Griffin, Carter, Tracy all peaked around 24.


Tatum himself is now screwed because he has massive injury to recover from, Brown will need rest or surgery. Both are in their alleged "prime" today.

Just sitting and waiting until players hit some arbitrary age is suicidal. Luxury tax, repetitive luxury tax, aprons will chew you up and force in rebuild very soon. Magic aren't even signed Banchero yet and they are already at first apron. Good luck playing Jett Howard and Tristan Da Silva, Bol Bol & other scrubs in 3 years because you can't afford nba players.

This needs context

Kawhi had Duncan, Manu, and Parker
Duncan had David Robinson
Kobe had Prime Shaq

None of these teams were solely dependent on 22 and 23 year olds as their sole core players when they won the title. I feel like these teams were closer to an OKC where they had a mixture current stars and rising stars. Unless you already have stars to pair with them, the vast majority of guys are not winning titles at such a young age. It’s typically happening in your late to mid twenties. The idea the Magic have failed to this point is just not fair.

Times are changing. Weather people want to accept it or not.

Look at remaining 4 teams.

OKC is youngest team in history to secure most wins in regular season. They are title favorites. 2 out of 3 best players they have are 22 & 24. Their League's MVP and best player is only 26.

Wolves are led by 23 years old Edwards.

How about Pacers? Their main star is leading them to back to back Conference finals. He is 25. Went to first ECF at age of 24.

All parts of the Kicks are from previous teams that couldn't afford them. Literally.

10 years ago Warriors won a title with one of youngest teams in nba history.

Shaq & Penny went to finals when they were 22 and 23.
Shaq won title when he was 27 and Kobe was 21.

There was period of time where you couldn't even enter nba until you are 22-ish.

Because how aprons work, you can forget past. You no longer will keep 2 star players for 10 years because if they are THAT good, they will get supermax and even regular max with Rose's rule will f*** you up due salary cap and how stings are set.

I personally think that aprons sounded good, but in reality will be harmful, and once again they will harm more smaller market teams than big ones.

You don't have to trust me, just take a look at Cavs. They are team made out of 28,26,23 and 25 years old players. And they will now probably have to split them up. Despite winning 64 games.

And Wagner and Suggs are about to turn 24, they aren't kids any more . Again, Edwards, person who is same age as them, is killing it in playoffs (again). He was Banchero's age last year when he led team WCF.

[drsd]

Nice to see so many Magicians in town!

Watch on YouTube

[drsd]

Just learned of a NBA slang term: "Cups of Coffee". Apparently this is the name of the 79 players that have only played in 1 NBA game.

The Magic has one such player: Jonathan Kerner.

I have no recollection of him at all. Here's his lone box-score: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199903110DAL.html

[eyriq]

Rookie Tatum ( 19) and sophomore Brown (21) went to Eastern Conference Finals, as starters in game 7.
Tatum led them in scoring.

Starting 5: Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Baynes. Smart off bench.


We won't just go from wining .500 to winning title. We are yet to win playoff series.

This whole planning for some imaginary year where everybody is "ready to win" is crazy talk.

Kawhi Leonard won first title at age of 22.
Duncan at age of 22.
Parker at age of 21.
Kobe 21.

Needless to say that whole bunch of superstars peak in early 20s and due injuries their "prime" isn't what most people view as prime.
Griffin, Carter, Tracy all peaked around 24.


Tatum himself is now screwed because he has massive injury to recover from, Brown will need rest or surgery. Both are in their alleged "prime" today.

Just sitting and waiting until players hit some arbitrary age is suicidal. Luxury tax, repetitive luxury tax, aprons will chew you up and force in rebuild very soon. Magic aren't even signed Banchero yet and they are already at first apron. Good luck playing Jett Howard and Tristan Da Silva, Bol Bol & other scrubs in 3 years because you can't afford nba players.

This needs context

Kawhi had Duncan, Manu, and Parker
Duncan had David Robinson
Kobe had Prime Shaq

None of these teams were solely dependent on 22 and 23 year olds as their sole core players when they won the title. I feel like these teams were closer to an OKC where they had a mixture current stars and rising stars. Unless you already have stars to pair with them, the vast majority of guys are not winning titles at such a young age. It’s typically happening in your late to mid twenties. The idea the Magic have failed to this point is just not fair.

Times are changing. Weather people want to accept it or not.

Look at remaining 4 teams.

OKC is youngest team in history to secure most wins in regular season. They are title favorites. 2 out of 3 best players they have are 22 & 24. Their League's MVP and best player is only 26.

Wolves are led by 23 years old Edwards.

How about Pacers? Their main star is leading them to back to back Conference finals. He is 25. Went to first ECF at age of 24.

All parts of the Kicks are from previous teams that couldn't afford them. Literally.

10 years ago Warriors won a title with one of youngest teams in nba history.

Shaq & Penny went to finals when they were 22 and 23.
Shaq won title when he was 27 and Kobe was 21.

There was period of time where you couldn't even enter nba until you are 22-ish.

Because how aprons work, you can forget past. You no longer will keep 2 star players for 10 years because if they are THAT good, they will get supermax and even regular max with Rose's rule will f*** you up due salary cap and how stings are set.

I personally think that aprons sounded good, but in reality will be harmful, and once again they will harm more smaller market teams than big ones.

You don't have to trust me, just take a look at Cavs. They are team made out of 28,26,23 and 25 years old players. And they will now probably have to split them up. Despite winning 64 games.

And Wagner and Suggs are about to turn 24, they aren't kids any more . Again, Edwards, person who is same age as them, is killing it in playoffs (again). He was Banchero's age last year when he led team WCF.

Pointing at a few young outliers while ignoring the many young teams that still flame out is cherry-picking, not proof that age no longer matters. The new apron rules still let you carry two max deals plus depth, so sustainable success hinges on roster balance and development not on rushing to dump 24-year-old stars who haven’t yet hit their efficiency prime.

[pepe1991]

This needs context

Kawhi had Duncan, Manu, and Parker
Duncan had David Robinson
Kobe had Prime Shaq

None of these teams were solely dependent on 22 and 23 year olds as their sole core players when they won the title. I feel like these teams were closer to an OKC where they had a mixture current stars and rising stars. Unless you already have stars to pair with them, the vast majority of guys are not winning titles at such a young age. It’s typically happening in your late to mid twenties. The idea the Magic have failed to this point is just not fair.

Times are changing. Weather people want to accept it or not.

Look at remaining 4 teams.

OKC is youngest team in history to secure most wins in regular season. They are title favorites. 2 out of 3 best players they have are 22 & 24. Their League's MVP and best player is only 26.

Wolves are led by 23 years old Edwards.

How about Pacers? Their main star is leading them to back to back Conference finals. He is 25. Went to first ECF at age of 24.

All parts of the Kicks are from previous teams that couldn't afford them. Literally.

10 years ago Warriors won a title with one of youngest teams in nba history.

Shaq & Penny went to finals when they were 22 and 23.
Shaq won title when he was 27 and Kobe was 21.

There was period of time where you couldn't even enter nba until you are 22-ish.

Because how aprons work, you can forget past. You no longer will keep 2 star players for 10 years because if they are THAT good, they will get supermax and even regular max with Rose's rule will f*** you up due salary cap and how stings are set.

I personally think that aprons sounded good, but in reality will be harmful, and once again they will harm more smaller market teams than big ones.

You don't have to trust me, just take a look at Cavs. They are team made out of 28,26,23 and 25 years old players. And they will now probably have to split them up. Despite winning 64 games.

And Wagner and Suggs are about to turn 24, they aren't kids any more . Again, Edwards, person who is same age as them, is killing it in playoffs (again). He was Banchero's age last year when he led team WCF.

Pointing at a few young outliers while ignoring the many young teams that still flame out is cherry-picking, not proof that age no longer matters. The new apron rules still let you carry two max deals plus depth, so sustainable success hinges on roster balance and development not on rushing to dump 24-year-old stars who haven’t yet hit their efficiency prime.

In mean time OKC is runaway title favorite with youngest team in nba.

Team they will probably face from East - led by guy year older than Suggs and Franz.

Nobody told them that their imaginary title window is 2031 i guess.

[eyriq]

Times are changing. Weather people want to accept it or not.

Look at remaining 4 teams.

OKC is youngest team in history to secure most wins in regular season. They are title favorites. 2 out of 3 best players they have are 22 & 24. Their League's MVP and best player is only 26.

Wolves are led by 23 years old Edwards.

How about Pacers? Their main star is leading them to back to back Conference finals. He is 25. Went to first ECF at age of 24.

All parts of the Kicks are from previous teams that couldn't afford them. Literally.

10 years ago Warriors won a title with one of youngest teams in nba history.

Shaq & Penny went to finals when they were 22 and 23.
Shaq won title when he was 27 and Kobe was 21.

There was period of time where you couldn't even enter nba until you are 22-ish.

Because how aprons work, you can forget past. You no longer will keep 2 star players for 10 years because if they are THAT good, they will get supermax and even regular max with Rose's rule will f*** you up due salary cap and how stings are set.

I personally think that aprons sounded good, but in reality will be harmful, and once again they will harm more smaller market teams than big ones.

You don't have to trust me, just take a look at Cavs. They are team made out of 28,26,23 and 25 years old players. And they will now probably have to split them up. Despite winning 64 games.

And Wagner and Suggs are about to turn 24, they aren't kids any more . Again, Edwards, person who is same age as them, is killing it in playoffs (again). He was Banchero's age last year when he led team WCF.

Pointing at a few young outliers while ignoring the many young teams that still flame out is cherry-picking, not proof that age no longer matters. The new apron rules still let you carry two max deals plus depth, so sustainable success hinges on roster balance and development not on rushing to dump 24-year-old stars who haven’t yet hit their efficiency prime.

In mean time OKC is runaway title favorite with youngest team in nba.

Team they will probably face from East - led by guy year older than Suggs and Franz.

Nobody told them that their imaginary title window is 2031 i guess.

SGA is 26, freshly crowned MVP, and deep into his prime; pretending OKC’s rise is driven by the 22-year-olds while ignoring the league’s best two-way guard is revisionist. Development curves still run through age 25-28 for star efficiency, so betting Paolo and Franz will skip that timeline because OKC has an MVP in place is wish-casting, not analysis.

[pepe1991]

Pointing at a few young outliers while ignoring the many young teams that still flame out is cherry-picking, not proof that age no longer matters. The new apron rules still let you carry two max deals plus depth, so sustainable success hinges on roster balance and development not on rushing to dump 24-year-old stars who haven’t yet hit their efficiency prime.

In mean time OKC is runaway title favorite with youngest team in nba.

Team they will probably face from East - led by guy year older than Suggs and Franz.

Nobody told them that their imaginary title window is 2031 i guess.

SGA is 26, freshly crowned MVP, and deep into his prime; pretending OKC’s rise is driven by the 22-year-olds while ignoring the league’s best two-way guard is revisionist. Development curves still run through age 25-28 for star efficiency, so betting Paolo and Franz will skip that timeline because OKC has an MVP in place is wish-casting, not analysis.

Suggs and Franz are 24 within next 2 months.

SGA was 2# last year in MVP voting at age of 25.

Edwards is same age as Suggs and Franz. He took them to CF last year being same age as Banchero. i guess nobody told him he can't do that either.

Silly them, should have waited until they are 29

Shame on Haliburton, how dared he took his team to back to back Conference Finals on East at 23 and 24. That should be forbidden, they should have developed "playmaking " skills of Isaiah Jackson first and give Jarace Walker some burn at PG. That's blueprint.

[eyriq]

In mean time OKC is runaway title favorite with youngest team in nba.

Team they will probably face from East - led by guy year older than Suggs and Franz.

Nobody told them that their imaginary title window is 2031 i guess.

SGA is 26, freshly crowned MVP, and deep into his prime; pretending OKC’s rise is driven by the 22-year-olds while ignoring the league’s best two-way guard is revisionist. Development curves still run through age 25-28 for star efficiency, so betting Paolo and Franz will skip that timeline because OKC has an MVP in place is wish-casting, not analysis.

Suggs and Franz are 24 within next 2 months.

SGA was 2# last year in MVP voting at age of 25.

Edwards is same age as Suggs and Franz. He took them to CF last year being same age as Banchero. i guess nobody told him he can't do that either.

Silly them, should have waited until they are 29

Shame on Haliburton, how dared he took his team to back to back Conference Finals on East at 23 and 24. That should be forbidden, they should have developed "playmaking " skills of Isaiah Jackson first and give Jarace Walker some burn at PG. That's blueprint.

SGA is a 26-year-old MVP in his sixth season, not some still-forming player on his rookie scale contract, so quit treating him like a peer to 22-year-old Paolo. Edwards is an outlier guard surrounded by elite shooters and a rim-protecting big, try swapping that context into Orlando’s no-spacing lineup before you hold him up as the universal standard. And Haliburton is a true lead guard whose entire skill set is table-setting; comparing his timeline to two jumbo wings only proves the point that development curves and roster context still rule the NBA, no matter how many cherry-picked exceptions you stack in all-caps.

[magicfan217]

The shooting issue with Franz is a real problem long term. While hes continued to improve each year with basically every other part of his game the three point shot continuing to get worse is a real issue. Him and Paolo will always have spacing issues playing with each other if Franz cannot shoot the three ball any more reliably than he is.

[pepe1991]

SGA is 26, freshly crowned MVP, and deep into his prime; pretending OKC’s rise is driven by the 22-year-olds while ignoring the league’s best two-way guard is revisionist. Development curves still run through age 25-28 for star efficiency, so betting Paolo and Franz will skip that timeline because OKC has an MVP in place is wish-casting, not analysis.

Suggs and Franz are 24 within next 2 months.

SGA was 2# last year in MVP voting at age of 25.

Edwards is same age as Suggs and Franz. He took them to CF last year being same age as Banchero. i guess nobody told him he can't do that either.

Silly them, should have waited until they are 29

Shame on Haliburton, how dared he took his team to back to back Conference Finals on East at 23 and 24. That should be forbidden, they should have developed "playmaking " skills of Isaiah Jackson first and give Jarace Walker some burn at PG. That's blueprint.

SGA is a 26-year-old MVP in his sixth season, not some still-forming player on his rookie scale contract, so quit treating him like a peer to 22-year-old Paolo. Edwards is an outlier guard surrounded by elite shooters and a rim-protecting big, try swapping that context into Orlando’s no-spacing lineup before you hold him up as the universal standard. And Haliburton is a true lead guard whose entire skill set is table-setting; comparing his timeline to two jumbo wings only proves the point that development curves and roster context still rule the NBA, no matter how many cherry-picked exceptions you stack in all-caps.

[eyriq]

Suggs and Franz are 24 within next 2 months.

SGA was 2# last year in MVP voting at age of 25.

Edwards is same age as Suggs and Franz. He took them to CF last year being same age as Banchero. i guess nobody told him he can't do that either.

Silly them, should have waited until they are 29

Shame on Haliburton, how dared he took his team to back to back Conference Finals on East at 23 and 24. That should be forbidden, they should have developed "playmaking " skills of Isaiah Jackson first and give Jarace Walker some burn at PG. That's blueprint.

SGA is a 26-year-old MVP in his sixth season, not some still-forming player on his rookie scale contract, so quit treating him like a peer to 22-year-old Paolo. Edwards is an outlier guard surrounded by elite shooters and a rim-protecting big, try swapping that context into Orlando’s no-spacing lineup before you hold him up as the universal standard. And Haliburton is a true lead guard whose entire skill set is table-setting; comparing his timeline to two jumbo wings only proves the point that development curves and roster context still rule the NBA, no matter how many cherry-picked exceptions you stack in all-caps.

Calling it “excuses” misses the timeline entirely: the core is only now hitting the 23-to-26 developmental sweet spot where real playoff leaps usually happen, so if anything your own “age doesn’t matter” refrain finally aligns with reality, we’re just entering win-now mode, not running behind it. Expect higher stakes this season, but don’t pretend the previous ramp-up was wasted; every contender you cite made the same climb before breaking through.

[Skybox]

"Timeline" is bunk...look at our own roster or any roster in the league.

Some guys get it quickly, some guys don't ever get it...the ones that take well into their extension to get it are rarer than either of the former two groups. The whole idea of a magic age where everyone "enters their prime" is just...