Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[cedric76]

If you are a contender, you can sell your ownership going above the 2nd apron for a season or 2.

If you have not passed the 1st round in 10yrs, it a not gonna fly.

So like it or not, we won't go over the 2nd apron untill we reach the conference final.
If you do that, then we can go over the 2nd apron

It a just a fact, even if you and I don't like it.

I REPEAT , going above the 2nd apron is NOT gonna happen until we reach the conference final.

Ahh so this is the chicken and the egg.

You say the Magic won’t exceed the 2nd apron until they reach a conference finals and prove to ownership they’re close to being a contender.

I am saying they won’t reach a conference finals unless they make the kind of personnel changes that can get them there. And those personnel changes needed will make the roster more expensive. It is what it is.

And this upcoming year, no matter who they acquire, is the “prove it” year is it not?

Because they’re not going to be in the 2nd apron this season regardless. There’s a reasonable chance they could even duck the tax completely if they play their cards right.

I just don’t like getting stressed about the 26-27 tax bill before we have even seen how the team plays in 25-26.

Who’s to say a top 10 of…

Reaves/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/Carter

Black/NAW/Rui/Isaac/Moritz (if the Lakers actually want TDS)

couldn’t make a deep run next year? And if they do, tell the owners suck it up and pay them.

And if they don’t have success and it’s a bad fit or just not good enough, you can just pivot next summer to something different. Maybe you deal Suggs. Maybe you potentially let Reaves go via sign-and-trade.

Maybe the Suns implode and you end up with a top 7 pick in 2026 and move forward with a younger and cheaper player.

There’s a lot of ways it can go. They owe it to themselves to try and build the best team possible for this year. And getting a guy like Reaves (or Simons) at least gives them an out to pivot next summer if everything goes incredibly wrong.

It s not the chicken and the egg, as ownership will not go above the 2nd apron if we have not shown that we can reach the conference final

You can fight how much you want, this is not gonna happen.

If you are a top 4 team in this league and your only way to retain your player is to go over the 2nd apron, then ownership might consider it.

This is the hard reality of the new CBA , it seems that you really understand how tough the 2nd apron is

We can bet $50 on it if you want to lose money again

[cedric76]

If you are a contender, you can sell your ownership going above the 2nd apron for a season or 2.

If you have not passed the 1st round in 10yrs, it a not gonna fly.

So like it or not, we won't go over the 2nd apron untill we reach the conference final.
If you do that, then we can go over the 2nd apron

It a just a fact, even if you and I don't like it.

I REPEAT , going above the 2nd apron is NOT gonna happen until we reach the conference final.

Ahh so this is the chicken and the egg.

You say the Magic won’t exceed the 2nd apron until they reach a conference finals and prove to ownership they’re close to being a contender.

I am saying they won’t reach a conference finals unless they make the kind of personnel changes that can get them there. And those personnel changes needed will make the roster more expensive. It is what it is.

And this upcoming year, no matter who they acquire, is the “prove it” year is it not?

Because they’re not going to be in the 2nd apron this season regardless. There’s a reasonable chance they could even duck the tax completely if they play their cards right.

I just don’t like getting stressed about the 26-27 tax bill before we have even seen how the team plays in 25-26.

Who’s to say a top 10 of…

Reaves/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/Carter

Black/NAW/Rui/Isaac/Moritz (if the Lakers actually want TDS)

couldn’t make a deep run next year? And if they do, tell the owners suck it up and pay them.

And if they don’t have success and it’s a bad fit or just not good enough, you can just pivot next summer to something different. Maybe you deal Suggs. Maybe you potentially let Reaves go via sign-and-trade.

Maybe the Suns implode and you end up with a top 7 pick in 2026 and move forward with a younger and cheaper player.

There’s a lot of ways it can go. They owe it to themselves to try and build the best team possible for this year. And getting a guy like Reaves (or Simons) at least gives them an out to pivot next summer if everything goes incredibly wrong.

NBA is all about planning

So let's say you go down that road and lose in the first round, what do you do?
You (the management) let reeves go for nothing as they can retain him? If Jeff does that, you d be the first one to ask for his firing

[pepe1991]

Reaves leaving scenario is not more probable than Simons or Sexton leaving.

All of them are exp. deals and unrestricted free agents pass 2025-26.


I already said why market for guys like Simons will never dry up to be below $25M a year. Because teams like Magic will simply be in situation where they can't afford to lose them for nothing.


Magic's problem, salary vise, is too much money tied up in fringe starter/ bench players who are also onedimensional.

Carter probably isn't starting level C on top 8 team in nba + he is always hurt
Isaac plays $15M a year being able to play 15 min a game for 35-55 games a year
KCP is fringe starter on very specific type of teams. There are more serious teams where KCP would not start than ones where he would.
Cole got overpaid as well.


Suggs got overpaid based on one good year. He is starting level guard in nba, but not type of guy that should be making $35M a year.



Once you overpaid pretty much every single role player, over their market value, just because "friendship, loyality" well.. your wiggle room got so small that it is borderline impossible to make serious trade without trading some of overpaid players. But rest of a league ain't dumb. They want no part of Carter, Isaac type contracts because they last for ages , they know Magic need guards and have picks, so they ask a lot in return.

Even that alleged TPE trades are asking Magic to sell draft picks just to unload money.



Those proposed Reaves trades to me are not realistic. Who is attractive to Lakers from Magic group? Isaac? Not starter. Carter- not rim protector/rim runner. KCP ? KCP is 32 years old 6'3 guard who is already on fast decline, entering 13th season, who , btw makes near $10M more than Reaves.

Same issue is with Simons trade. Teams simply don't want long lasting contracts that Weltman tied with so many mediocre players.

And that leads us to trade selling to get rid of his bad contracts or multiple teams need to be involved. And still, Magic will be asked to trade picks to a team that takes bad contracts.


It is more realistic to enter summer by declining team options on everybody.
Than trade Simmons for Cole + Goga + 16 pick
Than trade Isaac to TPE and 25th pick + probably some pick in future

Resign Moe and Joseph + sign NAW or somebody with MLE

That is only type of trade that gives Magic flexibility and fixes roster to some degree.


Due how CBA is set, as soon as you start paying people serious money , your depth is gone within 3 yearsa. That's why so many teams will be rebuilding and retooling and tearing rosters after several years.

[GelbeWand09]

Sam Vecenie:

“There is a lot of synergy for ORL and LAL to line up on a deal this summer”

Lakers looking for depth, defense, center and vets.

Orlando is looking for a young guard not making max money.

Win-win.

I would absolutely love Austin Reaves. He's really good.

Crafting a deal would be interesting.

Would the Lakers want Carter or Bitadze? Would they be willing to go for a Round 2 with KCP?

I think I would rather give up both firsts than give up Black...

A lot of possibilities.

Same. He is for me by far the best fit who solves or improves the most of our problems without giving up Suggs.
Like I wrote before, he just brings the positives of both Simons (high volume 3s) and Sexton (rim pressure) in one player and adds better playmaking and a much higher freethrow rate. All this with elite scoring efficiency unlike Simons, which is another thing we extremely need, not another mid to high volume guy, hanging around leaque average eff.

I don't think we get him because WCJ isn't the Center Luka needs on offense but he would be my favorite somewhat realistic target.

[GelbeWand09]

except Reaves is only cheap for 1 more year. Then he will want a lot more money, which sounds like $30mil+/yr

Deal with that when we cross that bridge.

for a guard that doesnt defend.

That argument is obsolete for me because all the possible guys are horrible defenders. Banes is a good defender but a different price region than the others and would cost Suggs and his defense.

[eyriq]

AB stans would be upset, but if you are a real AB stan (I am one) watching him get to grow next to Luka is not a bad consolation prize.

That's a fascinating way to frame it. I'm actually not an AB stan in that sense, once he's off the team my only attachment will be ego driven since I've spent lots of posts arguing about his archetype, upside, and fit.

I think the reason I'm a stan in the context of our fanbase is because my opinion of AB is so extreme relative to the general opinion on AB.

I value him almost equally to Suggs. I think both are perfectly suited to sit in our 4th salary slot. Reaves is probably more valuable than both but I still wouldn't trade either for Reaves because the upside scenarios for AB and Suggs are still really high.

[eyriq]

I do have to say though that a Goga/AB for Reaves framework makes a ton of sense.

[eyriq]

Reaves leaving scenario is not more probable than Simons or Sexton leaving.

All of them are exp. deals and unrestricted free agents pass 2025-26.


I already said why market for guys like Simons will never dry up to be below $25M a year. Because teams like Magic will simply be in situation where they can't afford to lose them for nothing.


Magic's problem, salary vise, is too much money tied up in fringe starter/ bench players who are also onedimensional.

Carter probably isn't starting level C on top 8 team in nba + he is always hurt
Isaac plays $15M a year being able to play 15 min a game for 35-55 games a year
KCP is fringe starter on very specific type of teams. There are more serious teams where KCP would not start than ones where he would.
Cole got overpaid as well.


Suggs got overpaid based on one good year. He is starting level guard in nba, but not type of guy that should be making $35M a year.



Once you overpaid pretty much every single role player, over their market value, just because "friendship, loyality" well.. your wiggle room got so small that it is borderline impossible to make serious trade without trading some of overpaid players. But rest of a league ain't dumb. They want no part of Carter, Isaac type contracts because they last for ages , they know Magic need guards and have picks, so they ask a lot in return.

Even that alleged TPE trades are asking Magic to sell draft picks just to unload money.



Those proposed Reaves trades to me are not realistic. Who is attractive to Lakers from Magic group? Isaac? Not starter. Carter- not rim protector/rim runner. KCP ? KCP is 32 years old 6'3 guard who is already on fast decline, entering 13th season, who , btw makes near $10M more than Reaves.

Same issue is with Simons trade. Teams simply don't want long lasting contracts that Weltman tied with so many mediocre players.

And that leads us to trade selling to get rid of his bad contracts or multiple teams need to be involved. And still, Magic will be asked to trade picks to a team that takes bad contracts.


It is more realistic to enter summer by declining team options on everybody.
Than trade Simmons for Cole + Goga + 16 pick
Than trade Isaac to TPE and 25th pick + probably some pick in future

Resign Moe and Joseph + sign NAW or somebody with MLE

That is only type of trade that gives Magic flexibility and fixes roster to some degree.


Due how CBA is set, as soon as you start paying people serious money , your depth is gone within 3 yearsa. That's why so many teams will be rebuilding and retooling and tearing rosters after several years.

I agree 100% with your evaluation of our overpaid players. We’re bloated in the middle of the rotation salary slots, exactly the kind of thing you expect from a team still straddling the line between rebuilding and committing. But once you’ve locked in your core three, the rest of the cap table needs to slim down. Mid-tier deals for fringe starters and role players just don’t scale when you’re trying to build a real playoff roster.

[cedric76]

If management thinks reaves is the missing piece and willing to spend over 120% of the cap on our starting 5 (Reaves/suggs/Franz/p5/WCJ) then they need to focus on drafting properly as we ll need those cheap contracts on our bench

Let's say you trade goga+ab for reaves

Then you need to draft a big (Raynaud) and a player with high potential

Be prepared to NOT pick option on Cole+ Jett next season OR move both this summer

Reaves,suggs
Suggs,kcp
Franz, TDS , Houstan
Paolo,ji,moe
WCJ, Raynaud, Moe

[Knightro]

It s not the chicken and the egg, as ownership will not go above the 2nd apron if we have not shown that we can reach the conference final

You can fight how much you want, this is not gonna happen.

If you are a top 4 team in this league and your only way to retain your player is to go over the 2nd apron, then ownership might consider it.

This is the hard reality of the new CBA , it seems that you really understand how tough the 2nd apron is

We can bet $50 on it if you want to lose money again

The Magic aren’t going to become the kind of team you’re talking about without making moves to improve the roster and moves to improve the roster are going to make the team more expensive.

If the mandate is “no going into the 2nd apron unless the tean has *already* shown it can contend for the title” then we all might as well stop watching because that isn’t going to happen.

Unfortunately, as Pepe and many other others have pointed out, the damage is already been done to the roster financially. They don’t have a team they can get out of the first round currently and they are approaching the aprons already.

Any trade that they can make that will actually move the needle on the court is going to push them closer and closer to the aprons.

If they’re not willing to do that, that’s fine, but don’t expect them to contend for anything serious either.

This year coming up is basically the last possible year for the Magic to know if what they have roster wise is good enough going forward to pay the tax bill that inevitably comes with a good team because Banchero’s salary is going to increase by 30 million or more 12 months from now.

[Knightro]

As Pepe also pointed out, I am now open to the possibility of the Magic simply punting Isaac into the Kings TPE for no salary in return.

I wouldn’t do it necessarily, but fans on their board seem to think the Kings value him as a player, so I could see it.

[zaymon]

I agree with people who write our contracts are structured more for trade than for winning right now.
You need midsized contracts and assets and we have both.
Looking at playoffs and players like Toppin i would be reluctant dealing Isaac. His value is propably lower than during injuries and his path to success is losing weight.

I am interested in trades for both rim protecting centers and playmaking guards.

Black, Carter, Bitadze for Claxton

Cole, Harris, assets for Monk/Sexton

Monk/Suggs/Wagner/Banchero/Claxton
Joseph/KCP/DaSilva/Isaac/MWagner

[basketballRob]

Watching the Pacers in the last game, it pays to have players who can handle the ball well at guard. Dort was pressuring Haliburton the whole game so Indiana could get into their offense easier by letting Nembhard run the offense.

Does NAW have a good handle?

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[pepe1991]

Isaac and Howard in TPE would be most annoying trade Weltman ever did to me.

[tiderulz]

You are all crazy for being ok trading Suggs for Bane.

Bane is 27. Is a SG/SF for 4/$37m
Suggs is 24. Is a SG/PG for 5/$35m

Don’t like that Suggs is injury prone? Bane is just about as bad and he’s older. Hes averaged only 5-8 more games a year since he’s been a pro.

If you are trading Suggs you should be hoping to get a substantial difference maker in return that changes how Orlando operates. You are just moving him for the sake of moving him if you are talking about guys like Bane or Murphy.

Two things...

1. 27 v. 24 isn't a significant difference in age to me. Trading 24-year-old Suggs for 31-year-old Derrick White *is* a significant difference that tangibly changes the team's timeline by adding 7 years to a core player, but 3 years isn't much.

2. Bane is a considerably better basketball player and just about every traditional and advanced metric would agree that it's not particularly close. Here's a small sampling...

TS%
Bane career: .597, Bane most recent season: .600
Suggs career: .535, Suggs most recent season: .536

AST%
Bane best season: 29.2%, Bane most recent season: 23.6%
Suggs best season: 24.9%, Suggs most recent season: 21.6%

TOV%
Bane career: 11.0%, Bane most recent season: 13.3%
Suggs career: 16.2%, Suggs most recent season: 16.2%

EPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season: +2.3
Suggs best season: +2.0, Suggs most recent season: +1.4

BPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season +3.2
Suggs best season: +1.0, Suggs most recent season +0.4

Net Points
Bane best season: +1.5, Bane most recent season +0.7
Suggs best season: -0.5, Suggs most recent season -0.5

Bane is a better shooter. Better scorer. Better playmaker. Better passer. Better rebounder. Better finisher. Less turnover prone.

Suggs is absolutely a better defender, but Bane has graded out as a positive defender in 3 of the last 4 seasons, including this most recent season. So that gap isn't nearly as wide as the gap between Suggs and Bane offensively.

Your arguments about Bane's injury history are valid. But he's still averaged 61 games per season since Suggs has been in the league compared to 53 for Suggs.

The only thing IMO not in Bane's favor would be that his contract goes up, while Suggs' goes down, but Bane is very clearly a much better player.

Yeah none of that is “considerable” unless you don’t believe Suggs will improve whatsoever. 3 years is a long time in basketball terms for ceiling/upside closer to prime.

It’s a marginal upgrade offensively and marginal downgrade defensively for an increase in salary over 4 years.

My point is that if you are going to actually trade Suggs it shouldn’t be for a marginal upgrade with an extremely similar skill set. It should be for someone that is exponentially better offensively and changes the offense wholesale.

Like if you are gonna piss off a lot of fans and mess with team chemistry you might as well make a significant change.

I guess its all in how you view it. I view Bane more than "marginable" upgrade. Bane has 4 years 18 ppg+, Suggs 1 year over 12 ppg.

[basketballRob]

Suggs may have more upside than Bane. Bane was 22, his rookie season.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=suggsja01&p1yrfrom=2024&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=banede01&p2yrfrom=2021&p2yrto=2021

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[AdamTheGreek]

The problem with Reaves is he’s going to have a higher contract asking price than guys like Simons. We can probably extend Simons to $25-29 mil. per seasons. Reaves is closer to like $35 mil. (Suggs range).

Either way, right now, we’re a first apron team with Suggs and Franz extensions kicking in with some underperforming middling contracts weighing us down.
I expect Paolo to be all-NBA next season. So his extension that kicks in 2026-2027 is going to put us over the second apron.

Using picks, we can get under the luxury tax and first apron and still improve the team a lot. It’s just going to require a lot more transactions this offseason because Jeff didn’t do anything at the deadline.
But we are going to be a second apron team for 2026-2027 season. So these next 3 months are critical in what our competitive ceiling will be. It’s more tense since Jeff is trying to get a new contract.

[jezzerinho]

I could be persuaded to take a buy-low flyer on Ayo Dosunmu.
Bitadze for Dosunmu would prob do it.
Let him run the second unit and hopefully build him into a starter PG within 2 yrs.

Wouldn't stop me moving for a starter guard but I'd be pretty optimistic he'll be a cost controlled starter guard within the win-now window.

[orlando_joe]

Reaves leaving scenario is not more probable than Simons or Sexton leaving.

All of them are exp. deals and unrestricted free agents pass 2025-26.


I already said why market for guys like Simons will never dry up to be below $25M a year. Because teams like Magic will simply be in situation where they can't afford to lose them for nothing.


Magic's problem, salary vise, is too much money tied up in fringe starter/ bench players who are also onedimensional.

Carter probably isn't starting level C on top 8 team in nba + he is always hurt
Isaac plays $15M a year being able to play 15 min a game for 35-55 games a year
KCP is fringe starter on very specific type of teams. There are more serious teams where KCP would not start than ones where he would.
Cole got overpaid as well.


Suggs got overpaid based on one good year. He is starting level guard in nba, but not type of guy that should be making $35M a year.



Once you overpaid pretty much every single role player, over their market value, just because "friendship, loyality" well.. your wiggle room got so small that it is borderline impossible to make serious trade without trading some of overpaid players. But rest of a league ain't dumb. They want no part of Carter, Isaac type contracts because they last for ages , they know Magic need guards and have picks, so they ask a lot in return.

Even that alleged TPE trades are asking Magic to sell draft picks just to unload money.



Those proposed Reaves trades to me are not realistic. Who is attractive to Lakers from Magic group? Isaac? Not starter. Carter- not rim protector/rim runner. KCP ? KCP is 32 years old 6'3 guard who is already on fast decline, entering 13th season, who , btw makes near $10M more than Reaves.

Same issue is with Simons trade. Teams simply don't want long lasting contracts that Weltman tied with so many mediocre players.

And that leads us to trade selling to get rid of his bad contracts or multiple teams need to be involved. And still, Magic will be asked to trade picks to a team that takes bad contracts.


It is more realistic to enter summer by declining team options on everybody.
Than trade Simmons for Cole + Goga + 16 pick
Than trade Isaac to TPE and 25th pick + probably some pick in future

Resign Moe and Joseph + sign NAW or somebody with MLE

That is only type of trade that gives Magic flexibility and fixes roster to some degree.


Due how CBA is set, as soon as you start paying people serious money , your depth is gone within 3 yearsa. That's why so many teams will be rebuilding and retooling and tearing rosters after several years.

kind of dishonest

most centers really only handful of good centers do not get hurt
isaac played 71 games that is closer to EVERY game then your high of 55
cole deal was very solid when signed very close and solid role of 6th man
if suggs contract started at 27-27-29-32-35 you really could not use the 35 a yr garbage...
not sure what you think getting kcp a champion with no assets but costing a couple mill extra on a 3 yr deal is just so bad you have no idea how that could have gone last yr if everyone was healthy magic might still be playing
but hey spin away...just try to be more honest

[eyriq]

Isaac and Howard in TPE would be most annoying trade Weltman ever did to me.

For sure. If it comes to that, it’s just admitting we held too long and mismanaged the value. Inefficient asset management, plain and simple.