Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[woosah]

We draft projects. Why keep hiring win-now coaches?

Because mostly anybody in the organization with any decision-making power is a moron.

We hire a noob starter Gm and he asks for patience and drafts project players. Two years later, we fire his starter coach and hire Skiles. Draft more projects. Hire Vogel. New gms. Draft projects. Hire Clifford. Who makes sense of this? People think Skiles, Vogel and now Clifford signed on and promised they'd be ok to lose? Did their actions show they were ok (and Clifford's now)? So even with different gms, something doesn't match here. At least with Smiley, everyone knew what time it was and we knew we'd lose. Mixed messages much?

[BadMofoPimp]

True, but the long term makes more sense to have players that will be here playing minutes next to the core for the future. Orlando deserves not to have a fan base considering the product they have been pushing. Who cares what the overall win total is at the end of the season. This roster is obviously flawed and Clifford knows it. He’s just delaying the inevitable with these lineups. His job is safe and it shouldn’t matter.

7 years of the same circle going nowhere is not going to teach these kids how to build a chemistry and how to win games unless they start winning them.

They are going to lose anyway. So you would rather they lose in roster situations they won’t be a part of in a year rather than lose playing with lineups they will. That’s what we are arguing about here. The only difference is that the latter actually benefits the organization more in the long run.

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

[IllMagic04]

Personally, I would like to see Vooch, Bamba and AG on the court together for an extended run just to see what happens.

Why? Even if it’s effective, Vuc is gone anyway. What’s the point of giving Bamba minutes in situations that wont matter in the long run. He needs minutes with JI which Clifford refuses to do.

Because, Clifford doesn't intend to lose every game by 30 points because they cannot score by playing all kids making himself and the organinzation look like morons for putting such a crappy product in front of their already dwindling fan base. Pretty much no coach will do this while Bamba is still learning and growing and not ready to play extended minutes. Are you serious or just thinking how it works in NBA2k where rookies can go off for 40mpg?

FYI. After 7 straight bottom feeding seasons, the organization needs to put out a team that learns how to win.

We drafted JI and Bamba. We gave AG an extension. So to me that means our plan A is for that to be our core. So why shouldn't they be playing together? That makes no sense. I would have them playing together as much as possible. Who cares how many points we lose by. I know Bamba is not ready for extended minutes yet but the minutes he plays should have some mix of the " B.I.G" lineup.

[OrlandO]

We draft projects. Why keep hiring win-now coaches?

Because mostly anybody in the organization with any decision-making power is a moron.

We hire a noob starter Gm and he asks for patience and drafts project players. Two years later, we fire his starter coach and hire Skiles. Draft more projects. Hire Vogel. New gms. Draft projects. Hire Clifford. Who makes sense of this? People think Skiles, Vogel and now Clifford signed on and promised they'd be ok to lose? Did their actions show they were ok (and Clifford's now)? So even with different gms, something doesn't match here. At least with Smiley, everyone knew what time it was and we knew we'd lose. Mixed messages much?

Hennigan probably thought Vaughn was the next Brett Brown... instead he got a coach that showed young players a documentary on male giraffes during a big losing streak.

[BadMofoPimp]

Why? Even if it’s effective, Vuc is gone anyway. What’s the point of giving Bamba minutes in situations that wont matter in the long run. He needs minutes with JI which Clifford refuses to do.

Because, Clifford doesn't intend to lose every game by 30 points because they cannot score by playing all kids making himself and the organinzation look like morons for putting such a crappy product in front of their already dwindling fan base. Pretty much no coach will do this while Bamba is still learning and growing and not ready to play extended minutes. Are you serious or just thinking how it works in NBA2k where rookies can go off for 40mpg?

FYI. After 7 straight bottom feeding seasons, the organization needs to put out a team that learns how to win.

We drafted JI and Bamba. We gave AG an extension. So to me that means our plan A is for that to be our core. So why shouldn't they be playing together? That makes no sense. I would have them playing together as much as possible. Who cares how many points we lose by. I know Bamba is not ready for extended minutes yet but the minutes he plays should have some mix of the " B.I.G" lineup.

I am sure if the season is lost after the All-Star break, then the Coaches and Front Office will have that conversation. Until then, Players, Coaches and Front Office all intend to win games.

[Furinkazan]

No injuries excuse like last year.
I mean we are basicly the most heathly team in the NBA atm.
Only Mozgov out for obvious reasons.
I hope they will fight back and Fournier shot will come back from holidays.

[npiper17]

Clifford after 7 games publicly beating around the bush that he is doing all he can with what he was given and with what talent the GM has put on the roster is not good. He has been really conservative in his comments before and up to now.

There are a few stages of downfall with coaches. He's moved forward a step. The next one is a lineup change which always occurs in November. Then we go on a little run, things look great, and then we hit a rough patch. Coach tries another philisophical change that fails. Then come mid-to-late December or early January the last stage is reached when he admits he has no answers just like Skiles did eventually in January and Vogel did in December.

We hired a win-now coach with a lose-often roster. It’s been the norm around here. The FO is either incapable of fixing the main problem or they’re incompetent. We’ll find out what the answer is this summer.

Disagree that we hired a ‘win now’ coach. I think we hired a ‘get some basic habits and understanding of how to play into our young guys’ coach.

If we win as a result of that then great but Clifford won’t be fired this season or next summer no matter what happens (nor should he be if the young guys are showing signs of improvement).

[IllMagic04]

Because, Clifford doesn't intend to lose every game by 30 points because they cannot score by playing all kids making himself and the organinzation look like morons for putting such a crappy product in front of their already dwindling fan base. Pretty much no coach will do this while Bamba is still learning and growing and not ready to play extended minutes. Are you serious or just thinking how it works in NBA2k where rookies can go off for 40mpg?

FYI. After 7 straight bottom feeding seasons, the organization needs to put out a team that learns how to win.

We drafted JI and Bamba. We gave AG an extension. So to me that means our plan A is for that to be our core. So why shouldn't they be playing together? That makes no sense. I would have them playing together as much as possible. Who cares how many points we lose by. I know Bamba is not ready for extended minutes yet but the minutes he plays should have some mix of the " B.I.G" lineup.

I am sure if the season is lost after the All-Star break, then the Coaches and Front Office will have that conversation. Until then, Players, Coaches and Front Office all intend to win games.

Sad thing is your 100% correct. Same song and dance with this franchise.

[VFX]

7 years of the same circle going nowhere is not going to teach these kids how to build a chemistry and how to win games unless they start winning them.

They are going to lose anyway. So you would rather they lose in roster situations they won’t be a part of in a year rather than lose playing with lineups they will. That’s what we are arguing about here. The only difference is that the latter actually benefits the organization more in the long run.

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

Oh I understand. You must not understand that this team isn’t capable of winning enough games to make a playoff run with this current roster.

The question at hand - is it worth playing Vuc significant minutes while not playing Bamba and JI together regardless of outcome? The answer is no. If you believe otherwise you put too much value on believing the handful of games this inept roster might win will help more than getting players worth investing in minutes together.

[YosemiteSam]

You CANNOT talk a pure focus on long-term when you have lost for 7 straight years. You have to consider the fan base that attends this year's games. Without some level of competence after this many years there won't be fans around when this so-called long term plan comes to fruition (if it ever does). You can't just instantly simulate 2 or 3 seasons like a video game - people need to pay money and attend games and watch them on TV for the next few years and have been for 6 already. This is a BUSINESS and its been too bad for too long

[BadMofoPimp]

We drafted JI and Bamba. We gave AG an extension. So to me that means our plan A is for that to be our core. So why shouldn't they be playing together? That makes no sense. I would have them playing together as much as possible. Who cares how many points we lose by. I know Bamba is not ready for extended minutes yet but the minutes he plays should have some mix of the " B.I.G" lineup.

I am sure if the season is lost after the All-Star break, then the Coaches and Front Office will have that conversation. Until then, Players, Coaches and Front Office all intend to win games.

Sad thing is your 100% correct. Same song and dance with this franchise.

All franchises operate that way. Philly just sat their players out a year or two before they played.

[BadMofoPimp]

They are going to lose anyway. So you would rather they lose in roster situations they won’t be a part of in a year rather than lose playing with lineups they will. That’s what we are arguing about here. The only difference is that the latter actually benefits the organization more in the long run.

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

Oh I understand. You must not understand that this team isn’t capable of winning enough games to make a playoff run with this current roster.

The question at hand - is it worth playing Vuc significant minutes while not playing Bamba and JI together regardless of outcome? The answer is no. If you believe otherwise you put too much value on believing the handful of games this inept roster might win will help more than getting players worth investing in minutes together.

It is a long season. No team is going to just start off their season putting out their worst roster at the outset so that they can lose by more points than they should. Fans would quit going to games for the rest of the season.

I swear I have seen this same argument by fans on RealGM demanding their favorite rookies be starting for every board of RealGM for every team 15 straight years now. Yet, no Actual GM does what you think they should.

[IllMagic04]

You CANNOT talk a pure focus on long-term when you have lost for 7 straight years. You have to consider the fan base that attends this year's games. Without some level of competence after this many years there won't be fans around when this so-called long term plan comes to fruition (if it ever does). You can't just instantly simulate 2 or 3 seasons like a video game - people need to pay money and attend games and watch them on TV for the next few years and have been for 6 already. This is a BUSINESS and its been too bad for too long

People would still come if you have an exciting team to watch. I was excited for the 2014 season. I thought having Dipo, Harris and Gordon was exciting. I saw potential. Even when the losing started it was cool when one of them had a big game. Now its just boring bad basketball. I would rather have in Trae Young on this team starting at pg and be 0-7 then be this boring team we have with no flashes of excitement. At least if you play Bamba more minutes maybe he blocks a shot or two to get fans excited. Maybe JI can deflect a pass. Its the best we got right now. Running offense through VUC does not excite me in 2018. It bores me.. and we still lose

[VFX]

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

Oh I understand. You must not understand that this team isn’t capable of winning enough games to make a playoff run with this current roster.

The question at hand - is it worth playing Vuc significant minutes while not playing Bamba and JI together regardless of outcome? The answer is no. If you believe otherwise you put too much value on believing the handful of games this inept roster might win will help more than getting players worth investing in minutes together.

It is a long season. No team is going to just start off their season putting out their worst roster at the outset so that they can lose by more points than they should. Fans would quit going to games for the rest of the season.

I swear I have seen this same argument by fans on RealGM demanding their favorite rookies be starting for every board of RealGM for every team 15 straight years now. Yet, no Actual GM does what you think they should.

It’s not even about starting. It’s about giving the future minutes together. It doesn’t matter what numbers Vuc puts up. We aren’t winning either way.

[PrimeThyme]

7 years of the same circle going nowhere is not going to teach these kids how to build a chemistry and how to win games unless they start winning them.

They are going to lose anyway. So you would rather they lose in roster situations they won’t be a part of in a year rather than lose playing with lineups they will. That’s what we are arguing about here. The only difference is that the latter actually benefits the organization more in the long run.

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

We are already the Kings of the east bro. Coaches and players don't plan on losing games, but Weham certainly has the power to make roster moves and not give them the choice. We are already a joke, I'd rather tank these next two years (for real this time) while playing the young guys and add a potential star to this roster. You don't stop becoming the Kings of the East until you put a legitimate product out there actually capable of winning games and being a contender some day. Winning meaningless games with Vuc and Fournier doesn't achieve that goal.

[BadMofoPimp]

Oh I understand. You must not understand that this team isn’t capable of winning enough games to make a playoff run with this current roster.

The question at hand - is it worth playing Vuc significant minutes while not playing Bamba and JI together regardless of outcome? The answer is no. If you believe otherwise you put too much value on believing the handful of games this inept roster might win will help more than getting players worth investing in minutes together.

It is a long season. No team is going to just start off their season putting out their worst roster at the outset so that they can lose by more points than they should. Fans would quit going to games for the rest of the season.

I swear I have seen this same argument by fans on RealGM demanding their favorite rookies be starting for every board of RealGM for every team 15 straight years now. Yet, no Actual GM does what you think they should.

It’s not even about starting. It’s about giving the future minutes together. It doesn’t matter what numbers Vuc puts up. We aren’t winning either way.

and

We are already the Kings of the east bro. Coaches and players don't plan on losing games, but Weham certainly has the power to make roster moves and not give them the choice. We are already a joke, I'd rather tank these next two years (for real this time) while playing the young guys and add a potential star to this roster. You don't stop becoming the Kings of the East until you put a legitimate product out there actually capable of winning games and being a contender some day. Winning meaningless games with Vuc and Fournier doesn't achieve that goal.

Like I have said above: "I swear I have seen this same argument by fans on RealGM demanding their favorite rookies be starting for every board of RealGM for every team 15 straight years now. Yet, no Actual GM does what you think they should."

You can dream all you want, but nobody in real life within a professional organization will listen to you. It will be like yelling at a brick wall. All you can do is find fans on RealGM who agree with you and scream together. But, like the extreme liberals are doing, just annoying the rest of us. If you want to Play the BIG 3 together now major minutes, I suggest NBA2k as a better alternative.

[Optimus_Steel]

Well, if you guys think we are terrible on offense, you'd be right.

Currently we are dead last in the entire league in:
-offensive efficiency (0.972)
-scoring (100.6 PPG)
-1st half scoring (48.6 points)
-FG% (41%)
-effective FG% (46.5%)

Oh and we're only the 3rd worst team in 3pt%, so we got that going for us.

Very exciting. I've telling people on here for 2 years that defense was not our problem. Yes its a problem. But the clear main problem that everything else seems to emanate from is that this has been the worst scoring team in totality for the past 6 years. They just suck at scoring from everywhere. And with the NBA like it is now, every team is scoring at least 100, this team will not get anywhere until they get scorers, big time scorers. Which is why we are years away from approaching mediocrity. Yea just keep drafting athletes that are supposed to be defenders...

[WeAreVenom]

I think on the scale of assets, Weltman/Hammond rank them like this...

1. Bamba
2. Isaac
3. 2019 1st
4. 2020 1st
5. Gordon

Gordon is definitely the most likely of the three players currently here to be traded.

That's how I rank them tbh....might make the 2019 1st a spot higher because it's looking like it's going to be very high.

[Hogified05]

Wizards are a mess. Think we could get in on Beal? I'm good on Wall way too expensive and I've seen enough bricks hurled up already this year.

Think Fournier and Vuc could get it done? For Beal and Rivers? Not that I'm high on Rivers but maybe coming home would light a fire in his belly. But I'd love Beal, some actual shooting would be magnificent plus he is a fromer Gator and a legitimate all star.

Haven't look at all the salaries and stuff to see if it matches. Vuc and wall would be crazy good together and Fournier is an adequate replacement for Beal and won't clash with Wall being the man.

Just a thought.

[WeAreVenom]

Wizards are a mess. Think we could get in on Beal? I'm good on Wall way too expensive and I've seen enough bricks hurled up already this year.

Think Fournier and Vuc could get it done? For Beal and Rivers? Not that I'm high on Rivers but maybe coming home would light a fire in his belly. But I'd love Beal, some actual shooting would be magnificent plus he is a fromer Gator and a legitimate all star.

Haven't look at all the salaries and stuff to see if it matches. Vuc and wall would be crazy good together and Fournier is an adequate replacement for Beal and won't clash with Wall being the man.

Just a thought.

I think we could.

People might disagree, but I'd like to remind everyone that the team having the fire sale rarely gets a good deal on their return. I'd personally like Wall, but would be more than happy with Beal and Rivers.