Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[KillMonger]

My concern with Kispert is that his *best* case scenario is Duncan Robinson/Joe Harris caliber. What if he doesn't hit his best case scenario?

What happens if he's just Wayne Ellington or Reggie Bullock caliber? Then you just used a top 10 pick on a guy you can sign for less than $5M every offseason.

scary thought

[Bensational]

Well obviously i think if Harris and Robinsosn were to be drafted today, I think they would be worth the CHI pick? I mean put it this way, if MIA or BKN offered us both those players in a contract that's the same as the CHI pick for that pick, would you take it?

Yeah, but so many teams did try to find those guys nowadays but how many were successful in that? Aside from the obvious MIA and BKN of course lol

I just think it’s a really low bar to set for a draft spot which could attain the likes of Curry, Klay, Lillard, McCollum, Booker, SGA, Mitchell, Herro, etc etc, and instead settling for Doug McDermott or JJ Redick. Valuable role players, but we shouldn’t be looking for role players on a team that needs lead playmakers.

Guys like Seth Curry, Danny Green, Brooks, Ross, Ingles, Bogdanovic (x2), Forbes, Trent Jr - they’re all out there available for trade or affordable FA deals. They’re final addition pieces, brought in to compliment pieces that can already carry a team.

I’m not saying those guys aren’t good players, but I’d prefer to take a larger gamble on talent with higher ceiling potential in our first rebuild draft.

Ah yeah I understand. Context matters after all. Us right now can afford or even want to gamble our CHI pick be a budding allstar. If we were say a PO team trying to upgrade our roster to battle to the mid-top rank PO teams I think we would be fine with Kispert/Joe/Duncan pick even on the spot our CHI pick will land.

Yeah, Kispert would be a great addition to a team with lead pieces he can play off.

Apologies for being blunt without the context in my first reply.

[RookieStar]

My concern with Kispert is that his *best* case scenario is Duncan Robinson/Joe Harris caliber. What if he doesn't hit his best case scenario?

What happens if he's just Wayne Ellington or Reggie Bullock caliber? Then you just used a top 10 pick on a guy you can sign for less than $5M every offseason.

is wayne and bullock hitting 3s in that volume? and more importantly at such a quick and high release like those other 3?

I think more details are needed abot duncan joe and kispert are that they shoot 3s quickly and at a high conversion rate.kind of like klay curry and trae. sorry i didnt see too much of wayne and bullock that nuch to notice of they do.

[RookieStar]

I just think it’s a really low bar to set for a draft spot which could attain the likes of Curry, Klay, Lillard, McCollum, Booker, SGA, Mitchell, Herro, etc etc, and instead settling for Doug McDermott or JJ Redick. Valuable role players, but we shouldn’t be looking for role players on a team that needs lead playmakers.

Guys like Seth Curry, Danny Green, Brooks, Ross, Ingles, Bogdanovic (x2), Forbes, Trent Jr - they’re all out there available for trade or affordable FA deals. They’re final addition pieces, brought in to compliment pieces that can already carry a team.

I’m not saying those guys aren’t good players, but I’d prefer to take a larger gamble on talent with higher ceiling potential in our first rebuild draft.

Ah yeah I understand. Context matters after all. Us right now can afford or even want to gamble our CHI pick be a budding allstar. If we were say a PO team trying to upgrade our roster to battle to the mid-top rank PO teams I think we would be fine with Kispert/Joe/Duncan pick even on the spot our CHI pick will land.

Yeah, Kispert would be a great addition to a team with lead pieces he can play off.

Apologies for being blunt without the context in my first reply.

no probs

[Skin]

Can someone convince me that Kuminga isn’t another Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Josh Jackson?

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

[pepe1991]

Can someone convince me that Kuminga isn’t another Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Josh Jackson?

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Edwards college stats where teams score 80 points a game
19 ppg
5,2 rpg
2,8 apg

40% FG, 29,4% for 3 , 77% FTs

Kuminga in league where average scoring points were 108 a game
15,8 ppg
7,2 rpg
2,7 apg

38,7% FG, 24,6% for 3 , 62,5% FTs

Kuminga efficiency stats are beyond terrible.

Both Winslow and Johnson actually were somewhat decent in terms of efficiency at college.

His ianbility to shoot at any range in comparison is way closer to likes of Cam Reddis (35%FG, 33% for 3, 77% FTs) & Michael Kid Gilchrist ( 25% for 3) .
As both Cam & Michael got all the excuses Kuminga is getting, due fact they were drafted at age of 18 and younger than other players of their class.

strong, athletic small forward who possesses the intangibles that can’t be taught … He’s at his best in open space, whether it’s in the half court or transition … While most use separation to rise and fire, XY uses it to build momentum and fearlessly attack the basket … Excellent finisher at the rim with explosive leaping ability, soft hands and the ability to adjust in mid-air … Tremendous length allows him to effortlessly finish plays with dunks … Also able to absorb and finish after contact … Moves well off the ball terms of angling his cuts as a slasher … Does not need the ball to be effective or impact a game … Though not known for his jumper, showed some promise spotting up when his feet are set … Strong, aggressive rebounder thanks to his relentless pursuit of the ball, non-stop motor and athleticism … Lockdown defensive potential with the versatility to guard to 3-4 different positions … Physical on-ball defender with a high awareness level off the ball … Has a desire, intensity and will to win that elevates his status into elite level despite not having elite skills or potential …

Similarities?

Spoiler:

this is MKG draft express report

Kumiga is easly player that has higgest bust - *unplayable and out of nba in 4 years * potential among all 5 top prospects.

[RookieStar]

Can someone convince me that Kuminga isn’t another Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Josh Jackson?

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Mechanical and blocky? Im sorry but did we watch the same games of Justice where he and Okafor led Duke to the ncaa championship? That Justice was not mechanical.and blocky. I havent watched much of Stanley but JJackson was fluid in the few games I saw of him as well...

The clear difference I can give of Kuminga with those 3 coming into the league is that he is willing to shoot more 3s compared to them. You cant say ballhandling and playmaker because that was what Justice was also doing in their road to the championship.

[GelbeWand09]

Can someone convince me that Kuminga isn’t another Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Josh Jackson?

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Mechanical and blocky? Im sorry but did we watch the same games of Justice where he and Okafor led Duke to the ncaa championship? That Justice was not mechanical.and blocky. I havent watched much of Stanley but JJackson was fluid in the few games I saw of him as well...

The clear difference I can give of Kuminga with those 3 coming into the league is that he is willing to shoot more 3s compared to them. You cant say ballhandling and playmaker because that was what Justice was also doing in their road to the championship.

Winslow with a good shot would be a really good player. He is a good defender, rebounds, good passing but his offense is abysmal because he cant shoot (+ he doesnt draw fts). If he could shoot, he probably would be a good starter on most teams, now he is on his way out of the leaque.

[zaymon]

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Mechanical and blocky? Im sorry but did we watch the same games of Justice where he and Okafor led Duke to the ncaa championship? That Justice was not mechanical.and blocky. I havent watched much of Stanley but JJackson was fluid in the few games I saw of him as well...

The clear difference I can give of Kuminga with those 3 coming into the league is that he is willing to shoot more 3s compared to them. You cant say ballhandling and playmaker because that was what Justice was also doing in their road to the championship.

Winslow with a good shot would be a really good player. He is a good defender, rebounds, good passing but his offense is abysmal because he cant shoot (+ he doesnt draw fts). If he could shoot, he probably would be a good starter on most teams, now he is on his way out of the leaque.

Thats exactly why Kuminga is outside top 6 for me. It hangs on his shooting and its brutal.

[KillMonger]

2nd Round Target?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Def Swami]

The free throw percentages for both Barnes and Kuminga don't bode well. Both were about 62% from the stripe. If they can't hit free throws efficiently, I'm not sure I like their chances of developing into good shooters over time. I'd be interested in a project with the Chicago FRP, but it would be really disappointing to walk from this draft with two projects. That's the 2014 draft all over again.

[Knightro]

I would argue that injuries have derailed Winslow's career/development as much as anything skill related.

He was very impactful in 17-18 and 18-19 for the Heat and trending in a positive direction as an offensive player.

In 3600+ combined minutes those two years, his Plus/Minus per 100 was +3.0, his Plus/Minus NET per 100 was +5.0 and he also hit 145-385 threes (.377) during that stretch. The Heat played really well when he was on the court and he was making more than enough 3's to be viable offensively with his passing and rebounding.

But since 18-19, he's missed 75% of his team's games, only playing in 37 of a possible 145 games.

[Knightro]

The free throw percentages for both Barnes and Kuminga don't bode well. Both were about 62% from the stripe. If they can't hit free throws efficiently, I'm not sure I like their chances of developing into good shooters over time. I'd be interested in a project with the Chicago FRP, but it would be really disappointing to walk from this draft with two projects. That's the 2014 draft all over again.

I trust Kuminga's jumper to develop more than I trust Barnes' to develop. But Barnes is much bigger and longer and is already really good at some things that Kuminga *might* become good at.

Barnes is already an awesome defender. Kuminga has the tools to be a great defender, but his effort and technique was inconsistent in the G-League bubble.

Barnes is already a very good passer and even played PG at times for FSU. Kuminga showed encouraging flashes of passing, but it was more flashes than consistent passing in every game.

But Barnes is also 14 months older, so it's not a huge surprise his skills are further down the path than Kuminga's.

It would be tough to pick both of them in the same draft. Would be putting a lot of faith into the developmental program.

[KillMonger]

The free throw percentages for both Barnes and Kuminga don't bode well. Both were about 62% from the stripe. If they can't hit free throws efficiently, I'm not sure I like their chances of developing into good shooters over time. I'd be interested in a project with the Chicago FRP, but it would be really disappointing to walk from this draft with two projects. That's the 2014 draft all over again.

I trust Kuminga's jumper to develop more than I trust Barnes' to develop. But Barnes is much bigger and longer and is already really good at some things that Kuminga *might* become good at.

Barnes is already an awesome defender. Kuminga has the tools to be a great defender, but his effort and technique was inconsistent in the G-League bubble.

Barnes is already a very good passer and even played PG at times for FSU. Kuminga showed encouraging flashes of passing, but it was more flashes than consistent passing in every game.

But Barnes is also 14 months older, so it's not a huge surprise his skills are further down the path than Kuminga's.

It would be tough to pick both of them in the same draft. Would be putting a lot of faith into the developmental program.

with our 1 development coach.....it's still kinda crazy but also makes sense that we only have 1 development coach

[Skin]

Can someone convince me that Kuminga isn’t another Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Josh Jackson?

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Edwards college stats where teams score 80 points a game
19 ppg
5,2 rpg
2,8 apg

40% FG, 29,4% for 3 , 77% FTs

Kuminga in league where average scoring points were 108 a game
15,8 ppg
7,2 rpg
2,7 apg

38,7% FG, 24,6% for 3 , 62,5% FTs

Kuminga efficiency stats are beyond terrible.

Both Winslow and Johnson actually were somewhat decent in terms of efficiency at college.

His ianbility to shoot at any range in comparison is way closer to likes of Cam Reddis (35%FG, 33% for 3, 77% FTs) & Michael Kid Gilchrist ( 25% for 3) .
As both Cam & Michael got all the excuses Kuminga is getting, due fact they were drafted at age of 18 and younger than other players of their class.

strong, athletic small forward who possesses the intangibles that can’t be taught … He’s at his best in open space, whether it’s in the half court or transition … While most use separation to rise and fire, XY uses it to build momentum and fearlessly attack the basket … Excellent finisher at the rim with explosive leaping ability, soft hands and the ability to adjust in mid-air … Tremendous length allows him to effortlessly finish plays with dunks … Also able to absorb and finish after contact … Moves well off the ball terms of angling his cuts as a slasher … Does not need the ball to be effective or impact a game … Though not known for his jumper, showed some promise spotting up when his feet are set … Strong, aggressive rebounder thanks to his relentless pursuit of the ball, non-stop motor and athleticism … Lockdown defensive potential with the versatility to guard to 3-4 different positions … Physical on-ball defender with a high awareness level off the ball … Has a desire, intensity and will to win that elevates his status into elite level despite not having elite skills or potential …

Similarities?

Spoiler:

this is MKG draft express report

Kumiga is easly player that has higgest bust - *unplayable and out of nba in 4 years * potential among all 5 top prospects.

This is such a ridiculous take. You could lead guys into a burning building with the way you try to use stats to make a point about a prospect. You rely on stats way too much. Kuminga is young and raw. You don't judge a guy like this by his stats. You look at the mold of player he is.

Edwards played against college talent. Stop acting like minutes played is equitable. MKG is just laughable, he had one of the most unnatural forms of shooting in the history of the game. Winslow had a muscular frame, but it took away from his fluidity. He's like a power guard who lacks fine finishing skills. Reddish has a passive mentality.

You probably would've scared folks off of drafting T-Mac if you had the chance. When I see Kuminga and the way he is able to move, his fluidity, his fine motor mechanics, his form, his size, his attack mentality, his handle, his athleticism, his explosion, his coordination, the guy I see is a young T-Mac. You would've blasted young T-Mac's stats. But I'm sure you were a huge Adam Morrison fan. Stats aren't everything.

Watch on YouTube

That has shades of the way T-Mac used to move. Winslow wishes he had that kind of fluidity. There's a reason why there are hundreds of college basketball players with amazing stats that don't even get draft prospect looks. What's your reasoning why they don't just translate into good NBA players? You can't just use your stat logic to tell one truth. If bad college stat guys = bad NBA guys, why don't good college stat guys = good NBA guys? It's just not that black and white.

[pepe1991]

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Edwards college stats where teams score 80 points a game
19 ppg
5,2 rpg
2,8 apg

40% FG, 29,4% for 3 , 77% FTs

Kuminga in league where average scoring points were 108 a game
15,8 ppg
7,2 rpg
2,7 apg

38,7% FG, 24,6% for 3 , 62,5% FTs

Kuminga efficiency stats are beyond terrible.

Both Winslow and Johnson actually were somewhat decent in terms of efficiency at college.

His ianbility to shoot at any range in comparison is way closer to likes of Cam Reddis (35%FG, 33% for 3, 77% FTs) & Michael Kid Gilchrist ( 25% for 3) .
As both Cam & Michael got all the excuses Kuminga is getting, due fact they were drafted at age of 18 and younger than other players of their class.

strong, athletic small forward who possesses the intangibles that can’t be taught … He’s at his best in open space, whether it’s in the half court or transition … While most use separation to rise and fire, XY uses it to build momentum and fearlessly attack the basket … Excellent finisher at the rim with explosive leaping ability, soft hands and the ability to adjust in mid-air … Tremendous length allows him to effortlessly finish plays with dunks … Also able to absorb and finish after contact … Moves well off the ball terms of angling his cuts as a slasher … Does not need the ball to be effective or impact a game … Though not known for his jumper, showed some promise spotting up when his feet are set … Strong, aggressive rebounder thanks to his relentless pursuit of the ball, non-stop motor and athleticism … Lockdown defensive potential with the versatility to guard to 3-4 different positions … Physical on-ball defender with a high awareness level off the ball … Has a desire, intensity and will to win that elevates his status into elite level despite not having elite skills or potential …

Similarities?

Spoiler:

this is MKG draft express report

Kumiga is easly player that has higgest bust - *unplayable and out of nba in 4 years * potential among all 5 top prospects.

This is such a ridiculous take. You could lead guys into a burning building with the way you try to use stats to make a point about a prospect. You rely on stats way too much. Kuminga is young and raw. You don't judge a guy like this by his stats. You look at the mold of player he is.

Edwards played against college talent. Stop acting like minutes played is equitable. MKG is just laughable, he had one of the most unnatural forms of shooting in the history of the game. Winslow had a muscular frame, but it took away from his fluidity. He's like a power guard who lacks fine finishing skills. Reddish has a passive mentality.

You probably would've scared folks off of drafting T-Mac if you had the chance. When I see Kuminga and the way he is able to move, his fluidity, his fine motor mechanics, his form, his size, his attack mentality, his handle, his athleticism, his explosion, his coordination, the guy I see is a young T-Mac. You would've blasted young T-Mac's stats. But I'm sure you were a huge Adam Morrison fan. Stats aren't everything.

Watch on YouTube

That has shades of the way T-Mac used to move. Winslow wishes he had that kind of fluidity. There's a reason why there are hundreds of college basketball players with amazing stats that don't even get draft prospect looks. What's your reasoning why they don't just translate into good NBA players? You can't just use your stat logic to tell one truth. If bad college stat guys = bad NBA guys, why don't good college stat guys = good NBA guys? It's just not that black and white.

So Kuminga is new T mac. Ok... I mean, you thought Doncic is new Hezonja

Most hilarious part about Kuminga to me, is that i was first person who ever mentioned him, last year, and i got reply from people who now like him " he can't shoot".

What really changed other than fact he proved he can't shoot?

Most of points Kuminga scored were transition points & dunks , while playing in G league where nobody was bothered with defense nor having any structual basketball. Having on same team another star prospect along with experience of epic 1700 games that Jack & Amir Johnson have in nba ( needless to say more than rest of G league together), it wasn't really that hard for him to look solid.
Despite having stacked roster, he still did not shot with any accuracy from any range, including FTs.

Again, if he is 6'8 there is some chance he can be so physiclly gifted to be useful in serious playoff basketball in nba, because he will be able to play bit of PF and be sticked on defense to opponents best player. But if he is 6'6 and can't shoot, than he is in big trouble.

[RookieStar]

Those guys were mechanical and blocky. Kuminga is a smooth athlete with a natural feel for the game. Think more along the lines of Anthony Edwards. Lots of guys were scared off by his shooting as well. Players with a natural feel for the game that is visible in their athleticism and flow are more believable to me. It may take time, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft if I'm not mistaken.

Mechanical and blocky? Im sorry but did we watch the same games of Justice where he and Okafor led Duke to the ncaa championship? That Justice was not mechanical.and blocky. I havent watched much of Stanley but JJackson was fluid in the few games I saw of him as well...

The clear difference I can give of Kuminga with those 3 coming into the league is that he is willing to shoot more 3s compared to them. You cant say ballhandling and playmaker because that was what Justice was also doing in their road to the championship.

Winslow with a good shot would be a really good player. He is a good defender, rebounds, good passing but his offense is abysmal because he cant shoot (+ he doesnt draw fts). If he could shoot, he probably would be a good starter on most teams, now he is on his way out of the leaque.

Those 4 player we are talking about WITH a good shot would probably be all stars..maybe. Also, we are talking about their fluidity/mobility and etc and how they compare to Kuminga.

Im just saying they aren't that mechanical/robotic/stiff as being said. Justice was probably 6'6 in college and he played PF at Duke. You can bet he didn't rely on his height and shooting to power that Duke team to the championship.

[RookieStar]

Mechanical and blocky? Im sorry but did we watch the same games of Justice where he and Okafor led Duke to the ncaa championship? That Justice was not mechanical.and blocky. I havent watched much of Stanley but JJackson was fluid in the few games I saw of him as well...

The clear difference I can give of Kuminga with those 3 coming into the league is that he is willing to shoot more 3s compared to them. You cant say ballhandling and playmaker because that was what Justice was also doing in their road to the championship.

Winslow with a good shot would be a really good player. He is a good defender, rebounds, good passing but his offense is abysmal because he cant shoot (+ he doesnt draw fts). If he could shoot, he probably would be a good starter on most teams, now he is on his way out of the leaque.

Thats exactly why Kuminga is outside top 6 for me. It hangs on his shooting and its brutal.

Kuminga is in the top-5 because in terms of raw athleticism and potential, no one else out of the top 5 can compare to him in both together.

[axl_c_cool]

I'd be gutted if we took him, too many athletes taken we needed develop. Can we draft a basketball player please

Winslow with a good shot would be a really good player. He is a good defender, rebounds, good passing but his offense is abysmal because he cant shoot (+ he doesnt draw fts). If he could shoot, he probably would be a good starter on most teams, now he is on his way out of the leaque.

Thats exactly why Kuminga is outside top 6 for me. It hangs on his shooting and its brutal.

Kuminga is in the top-5 because in terms of raw athleticism and potential, no one else out of the top 5 can compare to him in both together.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[RookieStar]

I'd be gutted if we took him, too many athletes taken we needed develop. Can we draft a basketball player please

Thats exactly why Kuminga is outside top 6 for me. It hangs on his shooting and its brutal.

Kuminga is in the top-5 because in terms of raw athleticism and potential, no one else out of the top 5 can compare to him in both together.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

IF we pick 5th.. then yeah he is who we are stuck with.