2022-2023 Regular Season Game 57: Miami Heat (31-25) at Orlando Magic (23-33) - 7pm

[Message Boar]

Of all the teams this could've happened against, did it have to be the ************* heat?

Also, Franz and Paolo slumping at the same time is problematic, even though I'm not too worried long-term; I know both can play better. But it's really hurting our margin for error to win right now.

[djguevara114]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

[basketballRob]

I still think Franz needs to play SG and Paolo SF. Harris needs to be bumped from the rotation.




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[djguevara114]

I still think Franz needs to play SG and Paolo SF. Harris needs to be bumped from the rotation.




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I think there’s value in this… Not that Harris has shooting consistently great, but would fear the ability that line-up would have to space the floor…

I would love to see Caleb Houston thrown in there…

[basketballRob]

I still think Franz needs to play SG and Paolo SF. Harris needs to be bumped from the rotation.




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I think there’s value in this… Not that Harris has shooting consistently great, but would fear the ability that line-up would have to space the floor…

I would love to see Caleb Houston thrown in there…

Paolo just looks so much better offensively when he starts at SF.

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[djguevara114]

I still think Franz needs to play SG and Paolo SF. Harris needs to be bumped from the rotation.




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I think there’s value in this… Not that Harris has shooting consistently great, but would fear the ability that line-up would have to space the floor…

I would love to see Caleb Houston thrown in there…

Paolo just looks so much better offensively when he starts at SF.

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I’m open to that idea… I’d love to be wrong… Been a diehard since I was a kid and watching Skiles play… It’s truly not hate or trolling, will start being more active on here (everyone can see I’ve made posts randomly for years)… I remember suggesting we sign Markkanen from the Bulls… That would be a great 4 to have if Paolo and Franz played 3/2…. Can Isaac shoot well enough to play 4?

[djguevara114]

Maybe convincing Pat Beverly to actually come and letting him put that fight in our guys… This team needs that type of player to help them learn how to have an edge…

[djguevara114]

Just to give my perspective validity… In the history of ROY winners only two ROYs have shot a worse percentage than Paolo… MCW and Jason Kidd (co-ROY) with Grant Hill—both guards!!! If he learns to play like he’s 6’10”, attacks the rim with the intent to dunk instead of hoping for a foul, and develops a pit bull mentality maybe I’ll be wrong… I hope I am…

[Ralof]

well deserved lost.

all the effort and defense in the world,but you can not win without talented,efficient,scoring options.

can not always rely on Anthony sparks,isaac and suggs energy,wagner 3 point shots,fultz estemporary plays,ecc.

10-31 from the field,0-8 from outiside,not much more to say.

at the end of the year we have the chance to improve this team,we have the assets if the draft not give us a top #2 pick.
lillard,beal,t.young,ecc.there could be a lot of guys would improve drammatically this team and put us in good position to reach a second round.
without a talented offensive weapon we are thib's NY knicks,good defense,great effort,so fxxxxxg limited.

[Knightro]

Paolo just looks so much better offensively when he starts at SF.

This whole argument just feels kind of weird to me. There’s no real tangible difference between “starting at SF” and “starting at PF” from an offensive standpoint. At least not on this team since they don’t really traditionally use anyone in the “dunker” spot on a regular basis like some teams do.

On offense you’re basically one of three things…

1. A primary ball handler who brings the ball up after the other team makes shots and initiates the half court sets. Fultz and Anthony do this the most and Suggs does it a little.

2. A big who is the primary screen setter and dribble handoff fulcrum. Carter does this the most and Moritz does it second most. Pretty much no one else sets screens to actually run a pick and roll here besides the two bigs. Any other screen action is done for the sole purpose of creating an advantageous switch for a Paolo/Franz isolation.

3. If you’re neither of those things, then you’re one of three wings and there’s really no tangible difference between any of the three spots. Beyond of the very rare Paolo post up, all three wings play outside the 3PT line and the ball swings around until one of them takes an open catch and shoot 3PT (Harris) or they decide to attack a bad closeout, go into a straight isolation, or call the center over for a screen (Franz/Paolo).

Now if you’re making the argument that Paolo is better when he’s defended by smaller players, I’d argue back that when he was “playing SF” that Bol got the easier matchup defensively and usually the smaller defender because they knew his handle was extremely loose and easy to combat outside of the full head of steam coast to coast bollercoaster plays.

Personally? I think Paolo’s best when defended by bigger and slower defenders that he can out quick and beat with skill because I find that he doesn’t consistently play as strong or as tough as his body would suggest he should against smaller guys. Sure, there’s flashes here and there, but he is a bit soft and doesn’t always take control physically like a 6’10” 250 pounder should.

Now…

If you think his rebounding and defensive shortcomings are better served at “at small forward” (aka with a better rebounder and defender next to him on the wing), then I can absolutely take that argument into consideration as potentially valid, but what has nothing to do with offense.

[Ralof]

Banchero is more a center than a small forward.

Putting him in pick and roll as a roller it's something that should be explored immediately.

alsoway more touches at the elbow posting up.
he has good vision and can hit guys on the blind side and cutters.

he is not doncic-zion,letting ball in his hands and just say him:"create our offense"is not doing a favour to him or us.

[basketballRob]

Paolo just looks so much better offensively when he starts at SF.

This whole argument just feels kind of weird to me. There’s no real tangible difference between “starting at SF” and “starting at PF” from an offensive standpoint. At least not on this team since they don’t really traditionally use anyone in the “dunker” spot on a regular basis like some teams do.

On offense you’re basically one of three things…

1. A primary ball handler who brings the ball up after the other team makes shots and initiates the half court sets. Fultz and Anthony do this the most and Suggs does it a little.

2. A big who is the primary screen setter and dribble handoff fulcrum. Carter does this the most and Moritz does it second most. Pretty much no one else sets screens to actually run a pick and roll here besides the two bigs. Any other screen action is done for the sole purpose of creating an advantageous switch for a Paolo/Franz isolation.

3. If you’re neither of those things, then you’re one of three wings and there’s really no tangible difference between any of the three spots. Beyond of the very rare Paolo post up, all three wings play outside the 3PT line and the ball swings around until one of them takes an open catch and shoot 3PT (Harris) or they decide to attack a bad closeout, go into a straight isolation, or call the center over for a screen (Franz/Paolo).

Now if you’re making the argument that Paolo is better when he’s defended by smaller players, I’d argue back that when he was “playing SF” that Bol got the easier matchup defensively and usually the smaller defender because they knew his handle was extremely loose and easy to combat outside of the full head of steam coast to coast bollercoaster plays.

Personally? I think Paolo’s best when defended by bigger and slower defenders that he can out quick and beat with skill because I find that he doesn’t consistently play as strong or as tough as his body would suggest he should against smaller guys. Sure, there’s flashes here and there, but he is a bit soft and doesn’t always take control physically like a 6’10” 250 pounder should.

Now…

If you think his rebounding and defensive shortcomings are better served at “at small forward” (aka with a better rebounder and defender next to him on the wing), then I can absolutely take that argument into consideration as potentially valid, but what has nothing to do with offense.

I definitely do think his defense is better at SF. I like being the bigger, more physical team.

On offense, I like Paolo being bigger and able to back down and shoot over defenders.

I do think Franz' best position is also SF, so that complicates things.


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[djguevara114]

Paolo just looks so much better offensively when he starts at SF.

This whole argument just feels kind of weird to me. There’s no real tangible difference between “starting at SF” and “starting at PF” from an offensive standpoint. At least not on this team since they don’t really traditionally use anyone in the “dunker” spot on a regular basis like some teams do.

On offense you’re basically one of three things…

1. A primary ball handler who brings the ball up after the other team makes shots and initiates the half court sets. Fultz and Anthony do this the most and Suggs does it a little.

2. A big who is the primary screen setter and dribble handoff fulcrum. Carter does this the most and Moritz does it second most. Pretty much no one else sets screens to actually run a pick and roll here besides the two bigs. Any other screen action is done for the sole purpose of creating an advantageous switch for a Paolo/Franz isolation.

3. If you’re neither of those things, then you’re one of three wings and there’s really no tangible difference between any of the three spots. Beyond of the very rare Paolo post up, all three wings play outside the 3PT line and the ball swings around until one of them takes an open catch and shoot 3PT (Harris) or they decide to attack a bad closeout, go into a straight isolation, or call the center over for a screen (Franz/Paolo).

Now if you’re making the argument that Paolo is better when he’s defended by smaller players, I’d argue back that when he was “playing SF” that Bol got the easier matchup defensively and usually the smaller defender because they knew his handle was extremely loose and easy to combat outside of the full head of steam coast to coast bollercoaster plays.

Personally? I think Paolo’s best when defended by bigger and slower defenders that he can out quick and beat with skill because I find that he doesn’t consistently play as strong or as tough as his body would suggest he should against smaller guys. Sure, there’s flashes here and there, but he is a bit soft and doesn’t always take control physically like a 6’10” 250 pounder should.

Now…

If you think his rebounding and defensive shortcomings are better served at “at small forward” (aka with a better rebounder and defender next to him on the wing), then I can absolutely take that argument into consideration as potentially valid, but what has nothing to do with offense.

Love this post… If he is “the guy” it shouldn’t matter who is guarding him…. To your point though, he plays much smaller than his size and I think often times without a killer mentality… If he can find a way to do those things, I’ll happily be wrong… I just don’t think those are things you develop

[fendilim]

Two things you have to consider with Paolo is he has hit the wall hard, which he has openly admitted.

And teams are slowly figuring out his game.

I understand the sentiment that he isn’t the type of player who is like Luka-Zion, that’s true. He isn’t.

But with a roster built for him, I think he can be the focal point of offense. He isnt the type of player who will dominate the ball nor is he flashy, I like the comparison made by one of the analysts in ESPN before, his effectiveness on the court is more like Duncan. Simple but effective.

With that said, that’s why I’m on the Scoot Henderson or another playmaker to help our offense, and perhaps even be our 2nd option. Because Franz has a tendency to defer to teammates. It seems like he doesn’t have the DNA to be one of the alphas.

[Bergmaniac]

This one is on Mosley. The bench was doing so much better than the starters yet he stuck with the starters down the stretch in regulation and throughout the OT. I really dislike the stubborness of most NBA coaches who stick with their tired starters in the OT even when the bench is outplaying them and are fresher. And the very physical game the refs allowed in the last quarter and OT is perfect for Suggs.

[Audi]

Mosley definitely should have used his review on that Bam flop from Suggs touching his aura. Letting it slide despite Sugg’s pleading for a review set the precedence for the refs to continue with that trash for the rest of the game. Even if they didn’t overturn, you’ve gotta call that out.

[eyriq]

It was a defensive game and our two best defenders are on the bench. That has to change.

[Knightro]

This one is on Mosley. The bench was doing so much better than the starters yet he stuck with the starters down the stretch in regulation and throughout the OT. I really dislike the stubborness of most NBA coaches who stick with their tired starters in the OT even when the bench is outplaying them and are fresher. And the very physical game the refs allowed in the last quarter and OT is perfect for Suggs.

But like, you have to make subs at some point.

The bench played something like 13 straight minutes from the 4 minute mark of the 3rd Q to 3 minute marj of the 4th Q and were basically dead in the water by the end of it.

Miami went on a 5-0 run from 6:00 in the 4th Q to 3:20 and everyone killed Mosley for leaving them in too long, ya know?

But the starters came back and immediately went back up by 9.

The starters were outscored 11-2 over the last 2.5 minutes.

[bigdogdylan5]

Magic are younger than Heat .
Heat survived OT in first night of back to backs before this game

Heat were down by 9 with 2:30 min to play.
Heat were down by 4 with 80 seconds on the clock.
Magic had full shot clock to kill game in last 20 sec before OT. Instad they they sent Heat to FT line below Heat's rim and stopped clock.
Magic also had game winning shot with 5 sec on the clock.
Magic should have had more energy in OT

Instad, Heat jumped them in OT and last 2 min it was brickfest for both teams-



It's bad loss but it is what it is.
I think that Paolo and Franz are being scouted better and that's one of reasons why their performances are so poor late. Paolo is kind a bad 3 point shooter who lives off baiting for fouls. Franz won't attemp shots that aren't layups and 3s.

Right now Magic depend way too much on bench to dig them up from slumps starters create

The scouting thing is a good point and hasn’t been talked about enough. I am not sure why Franz went away from his dirk fade but he needs to bring that back. I am not concerned but if these guys are going to be our stars they still have a lot of work to do on shoring up their weaknesses.

[jezzerinho]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

"Empty stat producer" is a very pejorative description, that really should only be used on the Russ-type players whose goal is to compile personal stats and not win at a team sport.

Paolo is not that guy. But a lot of what you say is true. The only thing tho is he's very young and - fundamentally- is still evolving as a player at his current position.

I've said it before, but while you get a ton of advantages in having a guard grow so much that he becomes a big, it's a big evolution from playing a finesse position to a contact position.

Paolo isn't there yet and - while he's learning to get there he's being tasked with banging around with some pretty hardened vets who want nothing more than to show.the no.1 pick what playing the forward position means.

Will he ever get there to where he relishes the contact? I'm not so sure, but I don't think that necessarily prevents him from being a productive no.1 option on a playoff team.

For now, it's a pretty big impediment and it could be that he never gets there.

But seeing as he's a teenager and clearly a student of the game, we better not be closing any chapters on him yet.