2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 1: (7) Orlando Magic at (2) Boston Celtics - 3:30pm ET

[eyriq]

We don't have a 3rd option or a 6th man. Cole and AB are the only players outside of Paolo and Franz that have a skill set to create for themselves and others. Cole sucks and AB is still too young. The offense 100% relies on Paolo and Franz playmaking for themselves and others, the others simply cannot create their own shots or lighten the playmaking load.

[SOUL]

Anyway, game is over. I feel like the Paolo and Franz will have a great next season.

Doesn’t matter if the FO doesn’t do their job and Mosley doesn’t install some sort of system that isn’t so heavily reliant on ISO-ball.

The front office endorses what the coaching staff is doing.

The front office dictates what the coaching staff is doing*.

That's how literally any NBA team works. We didn't land on a wheel and pick iso ball because it's fun. It's what our best players are best at, currently.

[Skybox]

The balance tips in favor of win-now starting this offseason though, IMO.

This is an incredibly silly perspective. I have no idea where people come up with these takes.

Its a perspective based on how the rebuilding process works.

1. Teardown (Year 0, for Orlando 2021)
2. Asset accumulation and development (Years 1-2, for Orlando 2022 and 2023)
3. Establishing a competitive core (Year 3-4, for Orlando 2024, 2025)
4. Transition to contention (Years 4-5, for Orlando 2026 and 2027)
5. Sustained success or reassessment (years 6+, for Orlando this starts in 2028)

We are finishing year 4 of our rebuild and are ready to transition to contention, which means valuing win-now moves over future oriented moves going forward.

We're at the same (good) spot we were at last year...we did nothing to get better, so we're still here - weeks away from Franz and Suggs making $74m between them. Last summer, we had a TON of cap space. This summer we have none, but we have two frps (which would have been really a luxury if we didn't need them as bait for any significant trade, given that no one outside of our big 3 is a clear positive trade value)...so, you're one year of wasted opportunity behind in your magical timetable.

I'm not really sour about the game, we led at the half...but one look at the box score just conjures up all of the same old s**t we've been saying here for a few years. Blaming injuries doesn't help, we clearly overcame them and rallied into the playoffs, but we wouldn't be in that much different a situation if Suggs and Moe were available...we'd be better, probably not in the play-in, certainly not playing the Celtics, but very likely underdogs with a limited ceiling even if we did fight out of the first against a depleted MIL or somehow stifled IND's high-octane offense.

I think we might take Game 2 but it still doesn't justify last summer and this TD's cowardly BS by our FO. FU FO.

[Cammo101]

Not sure what anyone expected from a team starting Cory freaking Joseph. We are an unserious franchise.

[eyriq]

This is an incredibly silly perspective. I have no idea where people come up with these takes.

Its a perspective based on how the rebuilding process works.

1. Teardown (Year 0, for Orlando 2021)
2. Asset accumulation and development (Years 1-2, for Orlando 2022 and 2023)
3. Establishing a competitive core (Year 3-4, for Orlando 2024, 2025)
4. Transition to contention (Years 4-5, for Orlando 2026 and 2027)
5. Sustained success or reassessment (years 6+, for Orlando this starts in 2028)

We are finishing year 4 of our rebuild and are ready to transition to contention, which means valuing win-now moves over future oriented moves going forward.

We're at the same (good) spot we were at last year...we did nothing to get better, so we're still here - weeks away from Franz and Suggs making $74m between them. Last summer, we had a TON of cap space. This summer we have none, but we have two frps (which would have been really a luxury if we didn't need them as bait for any significant trade, given that no one outside of our big 3 is a clear positive trade value)...so, you're one year of wasted opportunity behind in your magical timetable.

I'm not really sour about the game, we led at the half...but one look at the box score just conjures up all of the same old s**t we've been saying here for a few years. Blaming injuries doesn't help, we clearly overcame them and rallied into the playoffs, but we wouldn't be in that much different a situation if Suggs and Moe were available...we'd be better, probably not in the play-in, certainly not playing the Celtics, but very likely underdogs with a limited ceiling even if we did fight out of the first against a depleted MIL or somehow stifled IND's high-octane offense.

I think we might take Game 2 but it still doesn't justify last summer and this TD's cowardly BS by our FO. FU FO.

The "competitive core" that is being established is Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB. Transitioning to contention is when you focus on the garnishes.

[Skybox]

Doesn’t matter if the FO doesn’t do their job and Mosley doesn’t install some sort of system that isn’t so heavily reliant on ISO-ball.

The front office endorses what the coaching staff is doing.

The front office dictates what the coaching staff is doing*.

That's how literally any NBA team works. We didn't land on a wheel and pick iso ball because it's fun. It's what our best players are best at, currently.

Anybody feel like it will be easier to "teach them how to play the right way" 5 years into their careers, when they're making 100's of millions, in their mid-20's, multi-time All-Stars...when we finally surround them with a complementary supporting cast? The only development going on these years is reinforcing bad habits and encouraging selfish sloppy Hero ball offense because it IS the best chance of winning.

[SOUL]

Also that's where game planning and adjustments come in. We were able to adjust nicely last year in the Cavs series, we'll see what happens this year. We might simply just be screwed on math.

If the Celtics plan is to limit attempts from role guys and make Franz/Paolo take a lot of shots, we'll have to find a way to exploit that. It's obviously not the shot diet they want.

But also, if you're a role player and you look like you're about to piss yourself or don't look to be aggressive, then human nature is Paolo/Franz thinking "lol okay give me the ball".

[SOUL]

Anybody feel like it will be easier to "teach them how to play the right way" 5 years into their careers, when they're making 100's of millions, in their mid-20's, multi-time All-Stars...when we finally surround them with a complementary supporting cast? The only development going on these years is reinforcing bad habits and encouraging selfish sloppy Hero ball offense because it IS the best chance of winning.

You just need consistency and trust from role players. WCJ making two **** boneheaded plays out of the 3rd quarter makes it really hard to trust him the rest of the game. Other times, Franz/Paolo have to battle those internal demons of selfish play (which most stars have to) - and the rest is hoping and praying we make shots at the same level the Celtics can.

This series not only forces us to have to be smart more often than not (lol) but also make shots AND still play good defense.

We can usually do the third one, the other two it's just not there yet consistently.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Not sure what anyone expected from a team starting Cory freaking Joseph. We are an unserious franchise.

He’s starting because Suggs is hurt, Cole is inconsistent, AB isn’t ready, and Weltman did not make any trades this season.

[Knightro]

Doesn’t matter if the FO doesn’t do their job and Mosley doesn’t install some sort of system that isn’t so heavily reliant on ISO-ball.

The front office endorses what the coaching staff is doing.

The front office dictates what the coaching staff is doing*.

That's how literally any NBA team works. We didn't land on a wheel and pick iso ball because it's fun. It's what our best players are best at, currently.

I agree with the first half of what you said. Mosley is ultimately doing what the front office wants him to do.

But I strongly disagree that it is necessarily the right decision. Basically this organization allows these two forwards to do whatever they want on every offensive possession.

Just because it’s what those two guys are most comfortable with doesn’t mean it’s the best thing for the team.

My sense is that the front office believes that force feeding these two guys as many isolations as they can possibly stomach is ultimately going to pay off in the long run, but I’m quite skeptical on that.

These guys aren’t on the Luka, SGA, Harden, LeBron caliber in terms of pure talents. You can’t really create a functional offense purely around two guys running repeated isolation when neither guy is actually all that great at it.

[VFX]

Doesn’t matter if the FO doesn’t do their job and Mosley doesn’t install some sort of system that isn’t so heavily reliant on ISO-ball.

The front office endorses what the coaching staff is doing.

The front office dictates what the coaching staff is doing*.

That's how literally any NBA team works. We didn't land on a wheel and pick iso ball because it's fun. It's what our best players are best at, currently.

This is true.

Unfortunately, Paolo and Franz aren’t established quantities enough for everyone to believe they cannot develop better tendencies outside of isolation basketball because it’s convenient for them.

Mosely, or any other coach, should be getting them into better scoring opportunities that don’t devolve into terrible possessions because it’s “all you have”.

What I’m getting at is the fact that Paolo/Franz shouldn’t be relegated to running everything simply because they are good at getting to the rim. It’s on Mosely for running X’s and O’s as well as not saying “do whatever” when that’s obviously the case on offense. The Front Office also has to y’know… actually put players around them that give variety.

Mosely doesn’t get a pass.
The FO doesn’t get a pass.
Paolo/Franz don’t get a pass.

[MagicFan101]

Not sure what anyone expected from a team starting Cory freaking Joseph. We are an unserious franchise.

You are an unserious fan.

Go take a walk.

[Skybox]

Its a perspective based on how the rebuilding process works.

1. Teardown (Year 0, for Orlando 2021)
2. Asset accumulation and development (Years 1-2, for Orlando 2022 and 2023)
3. Establishing a competitive core (Year 3-4, for Orlando 2024, 2025)
4. Transition to contention (Years 4-5, for Orlando 2026 and 2027)
5. Sustained success or reassessment (years 6+, for Orlando this starts in 2028)

We are finishing year 4 of our rebuild and are ready to transition to contention, which means valuing win-now moves over future oriented moves going forward.

We're at the same (good) spot we were at last year...we did nothing to get better, so we're still here - weeks away from Franz and Suggs making $74m between them. Last summer, we had a TON of cap space. This summer we have none, but we have two frps (which would have been really a luxury if we didn't need them as bait for any significant trade, given that no one outside of our big 3 is a clear positive trade value)...so, you're one year of wasted opportunity behind in your magical timetable.

I'm not really sour about the game, we led at the half...but one look at the box score just conjures up all of the same old s**t we've been saying here for a few years. Blaming injuries doesn't help, we clearly overcame them and rallied into the playoffs, but we wouldn't be in that much different a situation if Suggs and Moe were available...we'd be better, probably not in the play-in, certainly not playing the Celtics, but very likely underdogs with a limited ceiling even if we did fight out of the first against a depleted MIL or somehow stifled IND's high-octane offense.

I think we might take Game 2 but it still doesn't justify last summer and this TD's cowardly BS by our FO. FU FO.

The "competitive core" that is being established is Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB. Transitioning to contention is when you focus on the garnishes.

Semantics...and comical that AB is included in that group...he's promising but still in the tier of "nice young players" like TdS, a step below KCP and WCJ in importance to the team.

"Focus on the garnishes"? so, there's some method to actually stacking the team with no coherent vision of team play in this clear step in this process? It's not that cut and dry, FO's must be visionary and opportunistic. They have to project a final vision and move on multiple planes, not just do something and sit back down and see what happens before they consider doing anything else.

[Knightro]

I think the Magic’s front office thinks they can recreate a 2016 Cavs or 2024 Mavericks kind of situation where they end up having two guys who are so good at creating, finding and ultimately destroying mismatches in isolation that they can ride that all the way to the Finals/winning a championship.

I just think the road to accomplishing that is full of potential potholes, none bigger than the fact these two guys just aren’t as good as the other guys who have had high end success playing this style.

[SOUL]

I agree with the first half of what you said. Mosley is ultimately doing what the front office wants him to do.

But I strongly disagree that it is necessarily the right decision. Basically this organization allows these two forwards to do whatever they want on every offensive possession.

Just because it’s what those two guys are most comfortable with doesn’t mean it’s the best thing for the team.

My sense is that the front office believes that force feeding these two guys as many isolations as they can possibly stomach is ultimately going to pay off in the long run, but I’m quite skeptical on that.

These guys aren’t on the Luka, SGA, Harden, LeBron caliber in terms of pure talents. You can’t really create a functional offense purely around two guys running repeated isolation when neither guy is actually all that great at it.

I don't think there's a particular directive there though - maybe other than "just get good experience however you see fit" or whatever but I do legitimately think it's sort of what we'll be relegated to until we get a guard (like Simons, whoever, pick your favorite) and then we'll see some different (and easier) looks out there.

Franz is great, love him, advanced stat darling and our best two-way player, but I think the entire offensive structure without any shooting or guard help currently hinges on him becoming a slightly different player than what he's became. I think the front office also thought differently when he was shooting 35% on threes until the last two years. Maybe that's why they didn't make moves, in hopes of something being different between the two other than Franz being way better around the basket.

The offense is pretty on track, personnel wise, to what I expected in terms of struggle when your best two players are good-great in the paint/mid-range/FT drawing area and streaky elsewhere while not having enough shooting or strong guard play to offset that.

[eyriq]

Semantics...and comical that AB is included in that group...he's promising but still in the tier of "nice young players" like TdS, a step below KCP and WCJ in importance to the team.

"Focus on the garnishes"? so, there's some method to actually stacking the team with no coherent vision of team play in this clear step in this process? It's not that cut and dry, FO's must be visionary and opportunistic. They have to project a final vision and move on multiple planes, not just do something and sit back down and see what happens before they consider doing anything else.

There is a clear vision for this build. Establish an elite defensive foundation, prioritize continuity and veterans with a championship pedigree to maximize player development, and create pathways to important roles for lottery picks.

They aren't sitting around, they are positioning this team to maximize the development of Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB.

[eyriq]

Thinking about the game and why Boston won, it was primarily due to superior outside shooting, disciplined ball handling, and key bench contributions. We benefited from Paolo's terrific play, but we have to significantly reduce turnovers and get stronger support from guards.

[Skybox]

Thinking about the game and why Boston won, it was primarily due to superior outside shooting, disciplined ball handling, and key bench contributions. We benefited from Paolo's terrific play, but we have to significantly reduce turnovers and get stronger support from guards.

...or ANY support from our guards. ANY at all would help.

[Knightro]

We don't have a 3rd option or a 6th man. Cole and AB are the only players outside of Paolo and Franz that have a skill set to create for themselves and others. Cole sucks and AB is still too young. The offense 100% relies on Paolo and Franz playmaking for themselves and others, the others simply cannot create their own shots or lighten the playmaking load.

And who is to blame for all of that?

[Skybox]

Semantics...and comical that AB is included in that group...he's promising but still in the tier of "nice young players" like TdS, a step below KCP and WCJ in importance to the team.

"Focus on the garnishes"? so, there's some method to actually stacking the team with no coherent vision of team play in this clear step in this process? It's not that cut and dry, FO's must be visionary and opportunistic. They have to project a final vision and move on multiple planes, not just do something and sit back down and see what happens before they consider doing anything else.

There is a clear vision for this build. Establish an elite defensive foundation, prioritize continuity and veterans with a championship pedigree to maximize player development, and create pathways to important roles for lottery picks.

They aren't sitting around, they are positioning this team to maximize the development of Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB.

Good speech...You've got a future in politics.

Prioritize Continuity...why exactly? BOS should definitely prioritize continuity - they are good. ORL needs change for the better.

Establish an elite defensive foundation - I like it, but if it's done with players that don't play offense, they'll have to be benched or removed when we get around to establishing enough offense to win. No purely defensive team has gone anywhere.

Create pathways for lottery picks...if the picks aren't good or aren't what they were supposed to be, then they need a pathway off the team. Jett was a flat out fail, Black is a good player, but a fail because he was supposed to be a PG and he's another Suggs, but with less offense. You might even say the same about Suggs- as many here say he was also drafted to be our PG - but he's not. That's not necessarily a bad draft pick, but it IS a screw up by the GM. You could say that any success with Suggs and AB is like any of the success in the last couple of years - in spite of Weltman, not because of him.

They aren't sitting around, they are positioning, etc...what did they do last summer-sign an older Suggs clone for 50% more than his own recent championship team would pay him and draft a nice, but inconsequential player in the middle of the draft. What did they do at the TD? ZIP