Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[nymets1]

Anybody watching (The basketball tournament) on ESPN right now? War Tampa is playing. I just saw this guy Taylor Persons on War Tampa with a really nice spin move/fadaway by the free throw line and than get on the floor and dove for a loose ball. I like watching him, Brice Brown and Fletcher Magee the most.

[dsg2021]

Aaron Gordon keeps improving every year. Stop blaming the lack of shooting on him when every single new add can’t shoot.

There’s no one better than Aaron in this draft, and he and Isaac should be the core of the team. Make everyone else fit around the bash brothers.

I only blink a little at GS’s 12% chance (I think) at landing the no. 1 pick. Or the craziest amount of potential the ORL FO ever saw in a GS’s 4th pick available on the clock (in a consensus weak draft)!

At least an attractive cap space play for ORL would look possible for the first time in years, because I see something like Aminu, DJ and AG for TPE and 1-2 firsts. And maybe another deal later in the summer too.

[drsd]

Aaron Gordon keeps improving every year. Stop blaming the lack of shooting on him when every single new add can’t shoot.

There’s no one better than Aaron in this draft, and he and Isaac should be the core of the team. Make everyone else fit around the bash brothers.

I only blink a little at GS’s 12% chance (I think) at landing the no. 1 pick. Or the craziest amount of potential the ORL FO ever saw in a GS’s 4th pick available on the clock (in a consensus weak draft)!

At least an attractive cap space play for ORL would look possible for the first time in years, because I see something like Aminu, DJ and AG for TPE and 1-2 firsts. And maybe another deal later in the summer too.

Let's do a thought exercise where Gordon is an NBA starter for the next 10 years at forward, and will never be an all-star. That is not an unrtadeable player.



..

[zaymon]

Aaron Gordon keeps improving every year. Stop blaming the lack of shooting on him when every single new add can’t shoot.

There’s no one better than Aaron in this draft, and he and Isaac should be the core of the team. Make everyone else fit around the bash brothers.

I only blink a little at GS’s 12% chance (I think) at landing the no. 1 pick. Or the craziest amount of potential the ORL FO ever saw in a GS’s 4th pick available on the clock (in a consensus weak draft)!

At least an attractive cap space play for ORL would look possible for the first time in years, because I see something like Aminu, DJ and AG for TPE and 1-2 firsts. And maybe another deal later in the summer too.

Let's do a thought exercise where Gordon is an NBA starter for the next 10 years at forward, and will never be an all-star. That is not an unrtadeable player.



..

I agree about Isaac but Gordon is definetly not a player we should build around. You dont build your offense around 4th option, and you dont build your defense around non rim protector. If we didnt had Isaac i would be ok with Gordon as long as he stops his midrange bs and starts to facilitate more as he had before the shutdown. We could also use him more as a roller, but i think JI has more potential in this area. AG will never be a good ball handler, he doesnt have the natural talent. Right now he is also terrible as a spot up shooter which is really hurting our team overall.

[Skybox]

Isaac's the best-a true DPOY candidate but I could live with a versatile AG at 4, especially if the FO sees Bamba becoming what they envisioned...a floor spreading, elite rim protector with his hands on everything on defense (like Isaac)...If Isaac is the key to a trade for a Devin Booker-level offensive Alpha, I'd look hard at it and be grateful we have AG. I propose AG trades all day but only from a fortunate position of abundance/redundance. I'm also increasingly willing to keep both, hope for Fultz to develop more offensive skills with them and try to make a move for a "gettable" offense only guy like Lavine, Wiggins, DeRozan.

Nothing new here except the idea that Isaac is not untouchable for the right return.

[nymets1]

Best thing about The basketball Tournament(TBT) is the (Elam effect) when a team can call timeout with 4 minutes left in the 4th quarter and they set the target score which is the winning team + 8 points to reach the target score. The 1st game I watched today The herd had more depth on their depth than Peoria. We haven't got to see the top teams yet (Carmen's Crew, Overseas Elite, Golden Eagles, etc)

I wish the NBA would do the target score at the end of the game, I don't like watching the end of NBA games with dribbling out the clock.

[NotACat]

I would trade Aaron Gordon in a heartbeat for Tyrese Haliburton or Killian Hayes

[dsg2021]

I didn’t necessarily call Aaron Gordon a core piece. We may literally have only one of those. What I was alluding to was strategic team building, in the sense that I absolutely do want to build around a JI and AG at the forwards. Those two are exactly what every team hopes for in those kinds of spots on the floor, hence GS hoping to have flipped D’Lo for him. The issue is, again, being jaded by the utter lack of nonshooters for the last 8 years or so. Perhaps ORL is kicking the bucket wherever they can first for BPA’s that include a total lack of shooting and natural scoring. Fultz keeps proving me wrong, so let’s hope he continues to improve like he already is!

[Statlanta]

To escape Purgatory, we need to get a real NBA SF on this roster: the likes of Hedo/Rashard(i.e. from the West)

An offensive minded Small Forward, particularly one with clout/veteran experience would gradually phase out Vuc/Fournier and their lack of playoff experience.

Having either AG or Isaac as an ace of the bench would be the ultimate trump card for this team.

[Magic_Johnny12]

I would trade Aaron Gordon in a heartbeat for Tyrese Haliburton or Killian Hayes

Yup. Hit it right on the head.

If we can trade Gordon for a pick that is in range to draft Killian Hayes and open up significant cap space for the monumental 2021 free agency class you do it without any hesitation.

Honestly, this could be directly correlated to why we were one of the three teams he interviewed with

Read on Twitter

Hayes is also a local kid from Lakeland.

Hayes has shades of D'Angelo Russell, Luka game imo and already possess elite NBA moves (killer step-back Harden esque shot).

[jezzerinho]

Despite being totally left-side dependent, I really like the look of Hayes too. He wouldn't be an instant starter and he and Fultz don't seem like obvious 1/2 bedfellows, but the talent is more or less undeniable.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Despite being totally left-side dependent, I really like the look of Hayes too. He wouldn't be an instant starter and he and Fultz don't seem like obvious 1/2 bedfellows, but the talent is more or less undeniable.

and kind of average athletically. I've seen get iso'd against some plodders and he couldn't get by them. But his game is NBA translatable imo. Can play off the ball, in the PnR, plays the passing lanes well. Has a nice touch on his floaters, good passer. He'll just need some major work using his right hand some more.

[bigdogdylan5]

I would trade Aaron Gordon in a heartbeat for Tyrese Haliburton or Killian Hayes

Yup. Hit it right on the head.

If we can trade Gordon for a pick that is in range to draft Killian Hayes and open up significant cap space for the monumental 2021 free agency class you do it without any hesitation.

Honestly, this could be directly correlated to why we were one of the three teams he interviewed with

Read on Twitter

Hayes is also a local kid from Lakeland.

Hayes has shades of D'Angelo Russell, Luka game imo and already possess elite NBA moves (killer step-back Harden esque shot).

I am going to be honest I haven’t dived into the prospects but the guy shot 26% from three but is considered a good shooter and Harden like? If we are going to trade up can we finally draft a guy who can actually shoot?

Edit: Looking deeper he definitely shot way better on more attempts in the euro cup. But that was only 10 games. His biggest sample size he shot 20%. That is still a little concerning

[PrimeThyme]

I think people are reading way to deep into a routine pre-draft interview. I would be flat out shocked if this FO had it in them to pull off some sort of blockbuster deal to move up into the top 5 of this draft. Regardless, I agree with the notion that he is far from a good fit next to Fultz/Isaac anyways. He's another sub 30% shooter for his career at the international level, even despite his small 10 game sample size of shooting close to 40%.

If you want to maximize Fultz's potential with this team you're going to have to put shooters around him at some point.

[Xatticus]

I would trade Aaron Gordon in a heartbeat for Tyrese Haliburton or Killian Hayes

Yup. Hit it right on the head.

If we can trade Gordon for a pick that is in range to draft Killian Hayes and open up significant cap space for the monumental 2021 free agency class you do it without any hesitation.

Honestly, this could be directly correlated to why we were one of the three teams he interviewed with

Read on Twitter

Hayes is also a local kid from Lakeland.

Hayes has shades of D'Angelo Russell, Luka game imo and already possess elite NBA moves (killer step-back Harden esque shot).

I am going to be honest I haven’t dived into the prospects but the guy shot 26% from three but is considered a good shooter and Harden like? If we are going to trade up can we finally draft a guy who can actually shoot?

Edit: Looking deeper he definitely shot way better on more attempts in the euro cup. But that was only 10 games. His biggest sample size he shot 20%. That is still a little concerning

Sooo... the selling points for his shot are that it looks good, he has been really good at the free throw line, and that he has been significantly better at shooting off the dribble than in catch-and-shoot situations.

The comparisons to Harden make no sense to me. Harden is a star now, so a lot of people are going to emulate him to some extent or another and Hayes is obviously among those that do. His step-back jump shot is straight out of Harden's playbook, but Harden has evolved into the player he is now. If you go back and watch what he was when he got into the league, he had an amazing first step that he used to blow by anyone that defended him aggressively. That sets up almost everything else he does. Hayes doesn't have that. He is an average athlete that is going to have trouble getting all the way to the rim.

I like Hayes well enough and he probably is the best PG prospect in a draft stacked with PG prospects, but that doesn't really make him a great prospect. As has been mentioned, he has no right hand whatsoever. You can see scouting videos that demonstrate how this hinders his game. His skill level is otherwise nice for his age and he is adept at running the pick-and-roll, but I don't see anything that otherwise makes him an extraordinary prospect.

I'd be happy to watch him develop if we somehow acquired him, but would I give up Gordon to get him? I don't know that I like him that much when there are going to be some appealing options available when we pick. I like Mannion and Lewis. I'd probably be happy watching Maledon develop as well, though he is a bit too passive for me.

If we trade Gordon to acquire a pick that we use on Hayes, we are a worse team in the immediate future. Hayes' team wasn't very good. I also don't like his fit alongside Fultz. I'm not sure our front office has the stones to take that sort of a gamble on Hayes. I'm not reading anything into the fact that Hayes gave us an interview. Weltman will kick the tires on everyone, but keep in mind that he drafted Isaac without getting a workout or interview.

[bigdogdylan5]

Makes sense. I would be out on him, I think we need someone who excels at shooting and can create as a secondary skill like Klay, Booker, or Beal. My opinion is we need to surround Fultz with as many shooters as possible. I think the future of this team is giving him the ball and space to get into the lane. You aren’t using him effectively if you put him at the arc as a three point threat. So I think the last thing I want is a ball dominant guard. My problem with Fournier is I wish he would just shoot 3s at 40% but he just wants the ball in his hands too much.

[MagicMatic]

To escape Purgatory, we need to get a real NBA SF on this roster: the likes of Hedo/Rashard(i.e. from the West)

An offensive minded Small Forward, particularly one with clout/veteran experience would gradually phase out Vuc/Fournier and their lack of playoff experience.

Having either AG or Isaac as an ace of the bench would be the ultimate trump card for this team.

This.

The issue is that we likely don’t acquire this kind of player without trading assets or getting lucky in the draft. Bench depth is a nice idea, but not having a reliable shot maker/creator is a big deal.

The reason AG gets brought up in trade scenarios all the time is because of value. He has the most of it on this roster outside of Isaac (who isn’t going anywhere). When Vuc was resigned it all but solidified the idea that AG was getting moved, and the subsequent smoke started the following deadline.

If moving in a different direction takes action, then it will either require a deal around AG or some miraculous drafting. That is if any of us want to see this kind of progress in the next 5 years at least...

[a-French-Fan]

Yup. Hit it right on the head.

If we can trade Gordon for a pick that is in range to draft Killian Hayes and open up significant cap space for the monumental 2021 free agency class you do it without any hesitation.

Honestly, this could be directly correlated to why we were one of the three teams he interviewed with

Read on Twitter

Hayes is also a local kid from Lakeland.

Hayes has shades of D'Angelo Russell, Luka game imo and already possess elite NBA moves (killer step-back Harden esque shot).

I am going to be honest I haven’t dived into the prospects but the guy shot 26% from three but is considered a good shooter and Harden like? If we are going to trade up can we finally draft a guy who can actually shoot?

Edit: Looking deeper he definitely shot way better on more attempts in the euro cup. But that was only 10 games. His biggest sample size he shot 20%. That is still a little concerning

Sooo... the selling points for his shot are that it looks good, he has been really good at the free throw line, and that he has been significantly better at shooting off the dribble than in catch-and-shoot situations.

The comparisons to Harden make no sense to me. Harden is a star now, so a lot of people are going to emulate him to some extent or another and Hayes is obviously among those that do. His step-back jump shot is straight out of Harden's playbook, but Harden has evolved into the player he is now. If you go back and watch what he was when he got into the league, he had an amazing first step that he used to blow by anyone that defended him aggressively. That sets up almost everything else he does. Hayes doesn't have that. He is an average athlete that is going to have trouble getting all the way to the rim.

I like Hayes well enough and he probably is the best PG prospect in a draft stacked with PG prospects, but that doesn't really make him a great prospect. As has been mentioned, he has no right hand whatsoever. You can see scouting videos that demonstrate how this hinders his game. His skill level is otherwise nice for his age and he is adept at running the pick-and-roll, but I don't see anything that otherwise makes him an extraordinary prospect.

I'd be happy to watch him develop if we somehow acquired him, but would I give up Gordon to get him? I don't know that I like him that much when there are going to be some appealing options available when we pick. I like Mannion and Lewis. I'd probably be happy watching Maledon develop as well, though he is a bit too passive for me.

If we trade Gordon to acquire a pick that we use on Hayes, we are a worse team in the immediate future. Hayes' team wasn't very good. I also don't like his fit alongside Fultz. I'm not sure our front office has the stones to take that sort of a gamble on Hayes. I'm not reading anything into the fact that Hayes gave us an interview. Weltman will kick the tires on everyone, but keep in mind that he drafted Isaac without getting a workout or interview.

Other point, if you trade Gordon to acquire Hayes'pick and open up significant cap space, you may sign ... Gobert! Hayes-Fournier-Gobert it could be very interisting

[Knightro]

As encouraged as I’ve been by Fultz getting back on the court, I’m not at all convinced he’s a guy the Magic should for sure be committing to as a no questions asked starter/player to build around at this point with the glaring hole that exists in his game offensively.

If the front office believes Hayes or Ball or any of the other lead guard prospects will be a better player overall than Fultz will be and can get into a position to acquire one of those players, then they should do that and ultimately get rid of Fultz if the two of them don’t mesh together on the court

I say again. The draft should be a pure talent acquisition play for a team like Orlando who isn’t likely to be a major free agent or trade destination without a star player already here.

The Magic should be drafting the players they believe will become the very best talents every year and then figuring out the roster construction element with trades and free agency later.

Now obviously the front office hasn’t been doing the latter all that well. They haven’t shown much of a willingness to make trades or not make FA signings that alleviate roster crunches, but hopefully that improves.

I’m just weary of the idea of worrying about how draft prospects fit with guys currently on a team that was chugging along towards 38 wins before the shutdown.

Who cares how a draft prospect fits with the players on the team right now when most of the players on the team right now could/should be traded without a second thought? When you maybe only have one legitimate long-term building block and no players without some level of questions marks, I worry a whole heck of a lot less about fit.

[Tarheel]

As encouraged as I’ve been by Fultz getting back on the court, I’m not at all convinced he’s a guy the Magic should for sure be committing to as a no questions asked starter/player to build around at this point with the glaring hole that exists in his game offensively.

If the front office believes Hayes or Ball or any of the other lead guard prospects will be a better player overall than Fultz will be and can get into a position to acquire one of those players, then they should do that and ultimately get rid of Fultz if they two of them don’t mesh together on the court

I say again. The draft should be a pure talent acquisition play for a team like Orlando who isn’t likely to be a major free agent or trade destination without a star player already here.

The Magic should be drafting the players they believe will become the very best talents every year and then figuring out the roster construction element with trades and free agency later.

Now obviously the front office hasn’t been doing the latter all that well. They haven’t shown much of a willingness to make trades or not make FA signings that alleviate roster crunches, but hopefully that improves.

I’m just weary of the idea of worrying about how draft prospects fit with guys currently on a team that was chugging along towards 38 wins before the shutdown.

Who cares how a draft prospect fits with the players on the team right now when most of the players on the team right now could/should be traded without a second thought? When you maybe only have one legitimate long-term building block and no players without some level of questions marks, I worry a whole heck of a lot less about fit.

This. If you think Hayes is a direction-altering talent and you have the chance to acquire him, you do it and ask questions later. Our FO, to their credit, has shown no indication that they'll let positional depth affect their drafting strategy.

In any event, I'm personally quite high on the potential of a Fultz/Hayes backcourt and equally high on Hayes' fit with our other young longer-term pieces.