2022-2023 Regular Season Game 57: Miami Heat (31-25) at Orlando Magic (23-33) - 7pm

[pepe1991]

Banchero is rookie

But his usage rate is massive for any nba player, let alone rookie

We all saw draft report that said he will average stats but it's unclear how much those stats help you win games.

Time will tell.

[Bergmaniac]

This one is on Mosley. The bench was doing so much better than the starters yet he stuck with the starters down the stretch in regulation and throughout the OT. I really dislike the stubborness of most NBA coaches who stick with their tired starters in the OT even when the bench is outplaying them and are fresher. And the very physical game the refs allowed in the last quarter and OT is perfect for Suggs.

But like, you have to make subs at some point.

The bench played something like 13 straight minutes from the 4 minute mark of the 3rd Q to 3 minute marj of the 4th Q and were basically dead in the water by the end of it.

Miami went on a 5-0 run from 6:00 in the 4th Q to 3:20 and everyone killed Mosley for leaving them in too long, ya know?

But the starters came back and immediately went back up by 9.

The starters were outscored 11-2 over the last 2.5 minutes.

Very good point, but still I think during OT some of the bench players should have gotten minutes, they had time to rest with all the timeouts in the last few minutes of regulation and OT.

[Knightro]

Very good point, but still I think during OT some of the bench players should have gotten minutes, they had time to rest with all the timeouts in the last few minutes of regulation and OT.

I don't agree with it, but teams rarely sub in overtime. Just kind of the nature of the beast. Teams go with who they closed the game with.

[Last Guardian]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

Rookies have an arch type. They get better at what they do but their style of play rarely changes. Luka, Lebron, KD, etc. all had the same style as a rookie, they just continued to get more efficient as time went on. If we analyze Paolo realistically…he’s a bigger Melo with the style he plays. Eventually I expect 25-28ppg with like 47% ish efficiency. He’ll improve his decision making and just get more consistent, but he’s never going to be an elite playmaker like Lebron, Luka, Jockc, whoever. That’s not the way he plays.

Questioning whether that is good enough is fine. Personally I think that he will make a fine bucket getter and as long as we’re elite defensively we will be a threat.

[djguevara114]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

"Empty stat producer" is a very pejorative description, that really should only be used on the Russ-type players whose goal is to compile personal stats and not win at a team sport.

Paolo is not that guy. But a lot of what you say is true. The only thing tho is he's very young and - fundamentally- is still evolving as a player at his current position.

I've said it before, but while you get a ton of advantages in having a guard grow so much that he becomes a big, it's a big evolution from playing a finesse position to a contact position.

Paolo isn't there yet and - while he's learning to get there he's being tasked with banging around with some pretty hardened vets who want nothing more than to show.the no.1 pick what playing the forward position means.

Will he ever get there to where he relishes the contact? I'm not so sure, but I don't think that necessarily prevents him from being a productive no.1 option on a playoff team.

For now, it's a pretty big impediment and it could be that he never gets there.

But seeing as he's a teenager and clearly a student of the game, we better not be closing any chapters on him yet.

I don’t disagree with this… Just small observations when I see him disregard other players with matchup advantage or keeping the ball on a break when the best play is to make the pass… I’m not saying they give up on him—simply saying that they should be operating with the mindset he isn’t a number one…

Again, I hope I’m wrong… Just not seeing that chip…

[djguevara114]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

Rookies have an arch type. They get better at what they do but their style of play rarely changes. Luka, Lebron, KD, etc. all had the same style as a rookie, they just continued to get more efficient as time went on. If we analyze Paolo realistically…he’s a bigger Melo with the style he plays. Eventually I expect 25-28ppg with like 47% ish efficiency. He’ll improve his decision making and just get more consistent, but he’s never going to be an elite playmaker like Lebron, Luka, Jockc, whoever. That’s not the way he plays.

Questioning whether that is good enough is fine. Personally I think that he will make a fine bucket getter and as long as we’re elite defensively we will be a threat.

Here’s the problem with that… We will be pressed into a situation where we “have” to give him max and we will be in a scenario where we are all in on a not top 10 player… This market/team can’t afford that…

[Bergmaniac]

Very good point, but still I think during OT some of the bench players should have gotten minutes, they had time to rest with all the timeouts in the last few minutes of regulation and OT.

I don't agree with it, but teams rarely sub in overtime. Just kind of the nature of the beast. Teams go with who they closed the game with.

I get why they do it with stars, but most NBA coaches refuses to sub even their role players in the OT, even in double OT it rarely happens. It drives me crazy.

[JoshuaPotter]

If there was ever a time to experiment on whether or not Paolo can develop into a no 1 scorer. This is that time. I for one don't see it as a detriment taking some "L's" for the coach to say "show me what you got" and then have the ability to hopefully learn.

It's part in parcel to why I decided it was better to let our players play this year and consider a FVV in free agency or giving Paolo + Franz one more year.

What's going to be exciting is next year the bar for Paolo in my head will be raised and yes I will expect better efficiency numbers then I am today.

Otherwise, to say that F + P isn't a potential championship formula is way to soon just like saying it could be fools gold or somewhere in between. Gonna have to watch it play out.

For those in the back that are impatient. This is the must surreal basketball i've seen from Orlando since the Howard days. Howard who also wasn't a true no 1 option and we lacked that still made a finals appearance. So there is room for a window so to speak. The 00 Pistons is also another example of a team without a no 1 option winning by grit.

On the topic of a game. I hate losing to the heat too. In terms of player development though I got to listen and hear happen what I wanted to hear which is letting our players play.

[JoshuaPotter]

TL DR version of my last post.

We are watching P + F lead us to .500 ball with a 20-30 ranked back court, a young mostly rejected center until he came here, and several other players with something to prove. P + F are basically children and I am willing to take some L's like last night to watch them develop.

[djguevara114]

If there was ever a time to experiment on whether or not Paolo can develop into a no 1 scorer. This is that time. I for one don't see it as a detriment taking some "L's" for the coach to say "show me what you got" and then have the ability to hopefully learn.

It's part in parcel to why I decided it was better to let our players play this year and consider a FVV in free agency or giving Paolo + Franz one more year.

What's going to be exciting is next year the bar for Paolo in my head will be raised and yes I will expect better efficiency numbers then I am today.

Otherwise, to say that F + P isn't a potential championship formula is way to soon just like saying it could be fools gold or somewhere in between. Gonna have to watch it play out.

For those in the back that are impatient. This is the must surreal basketball i've seen from Orlando since the Howard days. Howard who also wasn't a true no 1 option and we lacked that still made a finals appearance. So there is room for a window so to speak. The 00 Pistons is also another example of a team without a no 1 option winning by grit.

On the topic of a game. I hate losing to the heat too. In terms of player development though I got to listen and hear happen what I wanted to hear which is letting our players play.

I’m sure we all would love the chance to be in a position to truly build this team… I do also think there’s more to it than we realize… I have been wrong plenty of times but also feel like my gut about players has been more right than not… Still think back to decisions to force a type of player versus the right player… Bo over Wallace, signing Ty Lue over Antonio Daniels, trading McGrady to Houston versus Phoenix, etc… Was always on the opposite side of what the Magic decided… I HOPE IM WRONG ABOUT PAOLO! Figuring things out is much different than trying to trying to develop a, for lack of better description, a “mamba mentality”… I don’t see that in him…

[ogmagicfan]

All I see is a whole lotta overreacting. Paolo & Franz have both outperformed what expectations were for them this season.

They're 20 & 21 years old, in their rookie & sophomore season.

[zaymon]

If there was ever a time to experiment on whether or not Paolo can develop into a no 1 scorer. This is that time. I for one don't see it as a detriment taking some "L's" for the coach to say "show me what you got" and then have the ability to hopefully learn.

It's part in parcel to why I decided it was better to let our players play this year and consider a FVV in free agency or giving Paolo + Franz one more year.

What's going to be exciting is next year the bar for Paolo in my head will be raised and yes I will expect better efficiency numbers then I am today.

Otherwise, to say that F + P isn't a potential championship formula is way to soon just like saying it could be fools gold or somewhere in between. Gonna have to watch it play out.

For those in the back that are impatient. This is the must surreal basketball i've seen from Orlando since the Howard days. Howard who also wasn't a true no 1 option and we lacked that still made a finals appearance. So there is room for a window so to speak. The 00 Pistons is also another example of a team without a no 1 option winning by grit.

On the topic of a game. I hate losing to the heat too. In terms of player development though I got to listen and hear happen what I wanted to hear which is letting our players play.

I’m sure we all would love the chance to be in a position to truly build this team… I do also think there’s more to it than we realize… I have been wrong plenty of times but also feel like my gut about players has been more right than not… Still think back to decisions to force a type of player versus the right player… Bo over Wallace, signing Ty Lue over Antonio Daniels, trading McGrady to Houston versus Phoenix, etc… Was always on the opposite side of what the Magic decided… I HOPE IM WRONG ABOUT PAOLO! Figuring things out is much different than trying to trying to develop a, for lack of better description, a “mamba mentality”… I don’t see that in him…

I think you undervalue few things

1. Banchero has exceptional footwork for his size. That bodes well for his post game (and many top players playmake from the post nowadays), and for his off the dribble game, especially step back 3 pointers.
2. He plays without real point guard who can make things easy for him. Fultz usually just passes to him outside 3 point line and everybody expect he will create from this position.
3. He proved in Duke his game can produce wins even if his aproach seems lacking.

[tooler]

Hitting the rookie wall hasn’t changed my outlook on him. He will become a star if his jump shot starts falling. If it doesn’t, he won’t. It’s a story as old as time.

Remember most times we’re happy to see flashes out of a rookie. Paolo gave us half a season.

The rest of the season is just a waiting room for year 2. Or really year 3. Don’t take it too seriously.

[Dmagic]

im just going to say it. Paulo has sucked lately. fultz and Suggs are a great tandem if Suggs can get serious

[Dmagic]

the magic are playing a great brand of basketball and as the team excels we see franz and Paulo suffer individually. it is what it is. they havent been the ones making plays. LETS GO MAGIC

[ORLMagicGirl15]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

What type of non-sense is this? We’ve waited a long time to get a rookie who can play like Paolo and now we should move on? We give him 50 games and all of a sudden “we” (you) want us to trade him?

[djguevara114]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

What type of non-sense is this?

That him shooting 20% for many games is ridiculous and anyone that takes as many shots as he does is bound to make some… The sad part is a 6’10” ROY candidate possibly have the worst FG% of any ROY winner…. He’s fools gold.

Not saying to get rid of him for nothing but thinking the return would be a kings ransom… In a dream scenario if Charlotte or Detroit end up with 2nd pick, trading Paolo for Scoot would be a no brainer to me…

[89Magicfan]

I get bombarded with my take but Paolo is an empty stat producer—doesn’t necessarily translate to wins...

I’m not saying he’s not talented or a future all-star but I truly think if we pin our hopes on him we will regret it… He’s a third, maybe second best player on a championship team… He doesn’t fit next to Franz because he doesn’t space the floor reliably… Shoot, Keegan Murray would be a better fit… Don’t give me rookie, Franz is only a sophomore—who would you rather have the ball in their hand at the end of a game—to make the right play or take a good shot…

It’s not Paolo hate, it’s just believing he isn’t HIM. Everyone raves about his stats and his skill set—they are impressive… No one consistently talks about his “dog”, competitiveness, or fierceness…

He is 6’10” and plays like he’s 6’6” and wants to be a guard which is different than playing like your 6’10” and using guard skills…. A 6’10” ROY candidate that shoots 41% lol Come on… There are some of us in the forum that would get a score in the NBA if we at least got enough shots up…

My dream is that we somehow win the 1st pick and take Vic, and somehow convince the second pick to take Paolo and the Bulls pick for Scoot…

It’s not hate!! I truly believe if we move forward with the mindset Paolo is our #1 we will stay in mediocrity.

What type of non-sense is this?

That him shooting 20% for many games is ridiculous and anyone that takes as many shots as he does is bound to make some… The sad part is a 6’10” ROY candidate possibly have the worst FG% of any ROY winner…. He’s fools gold.

Not saying to get rid of him for nothing but thinking the return would be a kings ransom… In a dream scenario if Charlotte or Detroit end up with 2nd pick, trading Paolo for Scoot would be a no brainer to me…

It’s not hate. It’s prematurity.

I’m glad he’s hit a wall. Now we get to see how he overcomes it.

[Mc-o]

I hate to say it but I think fultz needs to be upgraded . His lack of a shot is just too bad . He also makes a lot of silly turnovers . He is good in the paint and mid range but now of days that’s not enough , I’d rather see how it goes with Cole and Suggs starting .

[eyriq]

I hate to say it but I think fultz needs to be upgraded . His lack of a shot is just too bad . He also makes a lot of silly turnovers . He is good in the paint and mid range but now of days that’s not enough , I’d rather see how it goes with Cole and Suggs starting .

The turnovers really frustrate me. He's genuinely bad in this category. If he's not helping in efg% and tov% then he's likely a net-negative on offense and a below average starting point guard on offense. I do think he's getting close to turning a corner here though, his playmaking has been popping these last few games. We'll see.