Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[RichCollab]

Read on Twitter

There’s more smoke

What team would that package excite?

That ~$28M...

You can do simple math. Congratulations.

[Knightro]

i still dont get the love for Nickeil Alexander-Walker, why on earth would you spend your MLE on a guy like that?

Jeff wanted him at the trade deadline because he was expiring and wasnt willing to send a few SRP for him but now you expect him to offer him the MLE??

41% career shooter
36% career 3pt shooter
74% career Ft shooter

You dont give the MLE to a guy like that , especially if it get you closer to aprons

He'd replace the durable 3&D from the wing that the Magic would be losing with KCP departing.

They're paying KCP $21.6M to get what they could get from NAW for $14.1M.

[pepe1991]

The data doesn’t say that at all. The offensive struggles are better explained by injuries, a young roster still learning the league, and a bench built around defense first. It's a context problem, not a talent one.

It quite literally does. I’m at the beach and can’t pull it up right now, but Orlando is in desperate need of playmaking.

There’s this fallacy around these parts that because Paolo and Franz are decent playmakers for their position that Orlando doesn’t need any more playmaking which contradicts a lot of the advanced numbers.

This is my gripe with Simon’s, heck of a shot creator but when his shot isn’t falling he is unplayable.

It’s not a coincidence players shoot their worst the second they put on a Magic jersey.

This doesn’t mean we need Haliburton to be successful, but saying we don’t need playmaking is crazy talk.

We shot worse on wide-open threes than the league average on all threes. The offense generated good looks—we just couldn’t convert. Until that’s fixed, parsing playmaking is putting the cart before the horse. Shooting isn’t optional. If you’ve looked at the data and come to a different conclusion, you’re doing it wrong.

Eh.

Look at most shots taken with 0-4 sec on the clock in nba.


Franz Wagner -4th in entire nba with most shots taken with expiring clock
Banchero - 7th in entire nba with most shots taken with exp.clock
Jalen Suggs - 30# in entire nba in same category


Matter of fact only between 3 of them , Magic get 5,9 FGA a game. They combine for 28% FG in such situations.

*Probably* lost of those shots are "open" but near impossible to actually make because offense created nothing during normal part of shot clock.


Staying in same "Impossible shots due pressure of shot clock" Magic had 3 players within top 15 most 3 FGA taken.
Again Franz, Suggs and Banchero.
Franz 1,1 attempt a game 19,7% accuracy
Banchero 1,0 attempt a game, 27% accuracy
Suggs 0,9 attempts a game , 15% accuracy


When some Isaac shoots "wide open" in corner, because whole defense ignores him, it also counts as " wide open shot generated" despite fact defense does it on purpose.



This is from regular season 2024-25.

Suggs played 35 games, shot bricks, we can even ignore him.
But you don't generate "wide open" looks for good shooters. KCP, on paper good shooter is just 4th in most 3FGA, after that you have Cole at just 8th as second serious shooter ( not even great one, rather mediocre one, but better than people above him), after that you have Houstan and C. Joseph all the way down.
This list should be upside down with few exceptions.

Instaed we "generate" shots for terrible shooters because teams ignore them and they feel pressure to take shot because if they don't, they just dribble ball in traffic and create even bigger mess from possession.




Now compare it with Pacers



They generate open looks to actually good shooters. Elite shooters get more shots, bad shooters get less.

This is difference between excellent offense and offense where nothing has any order nor players know what their set plays should be nor where their shots should come from.

There is no reason for Carter to average 2 FGA game from "wide open 3s" in season where guy shoots 23% for 3. There is no reason why Franz averages 6 -3FGA a game in season where he shoots 29% for 3.

Once again, problem with shooting starts with Banchero and Franz and their volumen of shots. You can have Petrović, Allen and Klay Thompson next to them, as long as they shoot 60% of team shots and have poor shooting numbers, shooting will continue to be issue.

[Redick07]

Read on Twitter

There’s more smoke

What team would that package excite?

That ~$28M...

If we trade Isaac before 7/1, Isaac + Cole will be 38m

[Knightro]

The idea that the Magic are looking to package Cole's expiring and Isaac's relatively easy to escape contract (after this upcoming year) just tells me that KCP isn't on the trade block nearly as much as some of us (myself included) have speculated.

And if he isn't on the trade block, I can't imagine NAW at the MLE would be a strong consideration at that point.

Other MLE targets could be... Ty Jerome? Quentin Grimes? Brook Lopez if they trade Carter? Malik Beasley?

[Idiosyncratic]

Read on Twitter

There’s more smoke

What team would that package excite?

Kings have long liked Isaac and have no idea what they are doing half of the time.

Also a lot of our contracts aren't that bad and many teams would gladly take them on to get a 1st for their good not great players. 1sts are as valuable as ever.

[Fortune Teller]

The delta between these thousands of trade proposals and what Jeff actually does is going to leave a lot of folks very disappointed.

Excepts for the ones who think every move he makes (or doesn't make) is part of some brilliant 10-year plan.

Of course he's already been here 8 years and the Magic are still a quick first-round exit so time is running out.

[cedric76]

i still dont get the love for Nickeil Alexander-Walker, why on earth would you spend your MLE on a guy like that?

Jeff wanted him at the trade deadline because he was expiring and wasnt willing to send a few SRP for him but now you expect him to offer him the MLE??

41% career shooter
36% career 3pt shooter
74% career Ft shooter

You dont give the MLE to a guy like that , especially if it get you closer to aprons

He'd replace the durable 3&D from the wing that the Magic would be losing with KCP departing.

They're paying KCP $21.6M to get what they could get from NAW for $14.1M.

But KCP>>>>>NAW

[MartinsIzAfraud]

i still dont get the love for Nickeil Alexander-Walker, why on earth would you spend your MLE on a guy like that?

Jeff wanted him at the trade deadline because he was expiring and wasnt willing to send a few SRP for him but now you expect him to offer him the MLE??

41% career shooter
36% career 3pt shooter
74% career Ft shooter

You dont give the MLE to a guy like that , especially if it get you closer to aprons

He'd replace the durable 3&D from the wing that the Magic would be losing with KCP departing.

They're paying KCP $21.6M to get what they could get from NAW for $14.1M.

But KCP>>>>>NAW

Based off this past year I’d have to say NAW gives you 90% of KCP and 7M to play with. 26 v 31 age difference factors in as well for me.

[Magic_Johnny12]

What team would that package excite?

That ~$28M...

If we trade Isaac before 7/1, Isaac + Cole will be 38m

Jordan Poole + Saddiq Bey = $37.9M

Immanuel Quickley + O Agbaji = $38.8M

LaMelo Ball = $37.9M

Austin Reaves + Gabe Vincent + Jarred Vanderbilt = $37M

I know I know it will take a lot more than Cole/Isaac for some of these, but just spitballing.

[RichCollab]

i still dont get the love for Nickeil Alexander-Walker, why on earth would you spend your MLE on a guy like that?

Jeff wanted him at the trade deadline because he was expiring and wasnt willing to send a few SRP for him but now you expect him to offer him the MLE??

41% career shooter
36% career 3pt shooter
74% career Ft shooter

You dont give the MLE to a guy like that , especially if it get you closer to aprons

He'd replace the durable 3&D from the wing that the Magic would be losing with KCP departing.

They're paying KCP $21.6M to get what they could get from NAW for $14.1M.

But KCP>>>>>NAW

NAW is a better value and KCP shouldn’t start any longer.

[Redick07]

That ~$28M...

If we trade Isaac before 7/1, Isaac + Cole will be 38m

Jordan Poole + Saddiq Bey = $37.9M

Immanuel Quickley + O Agbaji = $38.8M

LaMelo Ball = $37.9M

Austin Reaves + Gabe Vincent + Jarred Vanderbilt = $37M

I know I know it will take a lot more than Cole/Isaac for some of these, but just spitballing.

Isaac, Cole and #16 for Lamelo, I will immediately pull the trigger

[The Effect]

i still dont get the love for Nickeil Alexander-Walker, why on earth would you spend your MLE on a guy like that?

Jeff wanted him at the trade deadline because he was expiring and wasnt willing to send a few SRP for him but now you expect him to offer him the MLE??

41% career shooter
36% career 3pt shooter
74% career Ft shooter

You dont give the MLE to a guy like that , especially if it get you closer to aprons

He'd replace the durable 3&D from the wing that the Magic would be losing with KCP departing.

They're paying KCP $21.6M to get what they could get from NAW for $14.1M.

But KCP>>>>>NAW

Am i the only one who has zero interest in either of these guys being on the magic next year

I dont think either guy moves the needle even a tiny bit and are literally just filler on the court

[Knightro]

Am i the only one who has zero interest in either of these guys being on the magic next year

I dont think either guy moves the needle even a tiny bit and are literally just filler on the court

I think there's value in a durable wing who can defend and hit threes.

I wouldn't hold the Magic's lack of playmaking personnel in the backcourt, nor their lack of creativity offensively against those guys.

[Audi]

The delta between these thousands of trade proposals and what Jeff actually does is going to leave a lot of folks very disappointed.

Excepts for the ones who think every move he makes (or doesn't make) is part of some brilliant 10-year plan.

Of course he's already been here 8 years and the Magic are still a quick first-round exit so time is running out.

There’s another group of folks that won’t be disappointed: those with such low expectations that Weltman makes any move at all will be a pleasant shift.

[VFX]

Yeah, Im sooner paying 6-$8m LESS for NAW if Orlando actually moves KCP.

KCP has no business in the starting lineup for this team if he is taking 3-4 3pa a game at his current salary.

[Audi]

Yeah, Im sooner paying 6-$8m LESS for NAW if Orlando actually moves KCP.

KCP has no business in the starting lineup for this team if he is taking 3-4 3pa a game at his current salary.

Yup. At that salary he should be making 3-4.

[Magic_Johnny12]

It quite literally does. I’m at the beach and can’t pull it up right now, but Orlando is in desperate need of playmaking.

There’s this fallacy around these parts that because Paolo and Franz are decent playmakers for their position that Orlando doesn’t need any more playmaking which contradicts a lot of the advanced numbers.

This is my gripe with Simon’s, heck of a shot creator but when his shot isn’t falling he is unplayable.

It’s not a coincidence players shoot their worst the second they put on a Magic jersey.

This doesn’t mean we need Haliburton to be successful, but saying we don’t need playmaking is crazy talk.

We shot worse on wide-open threes than the league average on all threes. The offense generated good looks—we just couldn’t convert. Until that’s fixed, parsing playmaking is putting the cart before the horse. Shooting isn’t optional. If you’ve looked at the data and come to a different conclusion, you’re doing it wrong.

Eh.

Look at most shots taken with 0-4 sec on the clock in nba.


Franz Wagner -4th in entire nba with most shots taken with expiring clock
Banchero - 7th in entire nba with most shots taken with exp.clock
Jalen Suggs - 30# in entire nba in same category


Matter of fact only between 3 of them , Magic get 5,9 FGA a game. They combine for 28% FG in such situations.

*Probably* lost of those shots are "open" but near impossible to actually make because offense created nothing during normal part of shot clock.


Staying in same "Impossible shots due pressure of shot clock" Magic had 3 players within top 15 most 3 FGA taken.
Again Franz, Suggs and Banchero.
Franz 1,1 attempt a game 19,7% accuracy
Banchero 1,0 attempt a game, 27% accuracy
Suggs 0,9 attempts a game , 15% accuracy


When some Isaac shoots "wide open" in corner, because whole defense ignores him, it also counts as " wide open shot generated" despite fact defense does it on purpose.



This is from regular season 2024-25.

Suggs played 35 games, shot bricks, we can even ignore him.
But you don't generate "wide open" looks for good shooters. KCP, on paper good shooter is just 4th in most 3FGA, after that you have Cole at just 8th as second serious shooter ( not even great one, rather mediocre one, but better than people above him), after that you have Houstan and C. Joseph all the way down.
This list should be upside down with few exceptions.

Instaed we "generate" shots for terrible shooters because teams ignore them and they feel pressure to take shot because if they don't, they just dribble ball in traffic and create even bigger mess from possession.




Now compare it with Pacers



They generate open looks to actually good shooters. Elite shooters get more shots, bad shooters get less.

This is difference between excellent offense and offense where nothing has any order nor players know what their set plays should be nor where their shots should come from.

There is no reason for Carter to average 2 FGA game from "wide open 3s" in season where guy shoots 23% for 3. There is no reason why Franz averages 6 -3FGA a game in season where he shoots 29% for 3.

Once again, problem with shooting starts with Banchero and Franz and their volumen of shots. You can have Petrović, Allen and Klay Thompson next to them, as long as they shoot 60% of team shots and have poor shooting numbers, shooting will continue to be issue.

Cook.

[VFX]

Once again, problem with shooting starts with Banchero and Franz and their volumen of shots. You can have Petrović, Allen and Klay Thompson next to them, as long as they shoot 60% of team shots and have poor shooting numbers, shooting will continue to be issue.

This x100.

This is why people wanting to cycle out random shooters in this offense dont really get the whole point.

Nothing will change until the distribution and playmaking system changes.

The offense is impossibly difficult right now at generating easy looks at the basket.

[JF5]

How about this...

1. Decline team options on Moritz, Gary and CoJo. Pick up team option on Caleb - $199.3M -> $177.3M
2. Trade KCP, Jett, 25 and 46 for Anfernee Simons -> $177.3M -> $177.8M
3. Draft at Jase Richardson at 16 and Micah Peavy at 57 - $177.8M -> $183.5M
4. Trade Jonathan Isaac to the Sacramento Kings into the Kevin Huerter TPE - $183.5M -> $168.5M
5. Sign Nickel Alexander-Walker for the MLE - $168.5M -> $182.6M
6. Trade Cole Anthony and three future 2nds for Bobby Portis - $182.6M -> $182.9M
7. Resign Moritz Wagner for 8M AAV. - $182.9 -> $190.9M
8. Resign CoJo to the veteran minimum - $190.9M -> $194.5

2025-2026 rotation
G: Suggs, Black, Joseph
G: Simons, Alexander-Walker, Richardson
F: F. Wagner, Houstan, Peavy
F: Banchero, Portis, TDS
C: Carter, Bitadze, M. Wagner

$194.5M in committed salary. $1.4M below the first apron. Magic would be hard capped and unable to exceed the first apron due to using the full MLE.

The offense still looks like it'll be a bottom 10 offense.

I'm going to assume if the Magic want NAW they're going to move on from Anthony Black. They need an actual bench playmaker.

How so?

Suggs and Moe were two of our top 4. AB showed growth in the playoffs as did Paolo and Franz.

Portis and Simons are upgrades.

I’m not saying we are going to light the world on fire but we better be higher then bottom 10 especially if healthy.

I'm worried about the bench. A bunch of non shooters/Scorers outside of Mo. The only way I see the bench would pack more of a punch is if they found someone who could score/being a playmaker that would open it up for everyone else.

I just dont believe AB is that guy.