Let's Talk About Mario

Hoyti Von Totiy · Post #701 » by **Hoyti Von Totiy** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 12:45 pm

Well all said seen and done, who here thinks Mario really had a constant chance with this team now he is as well as gone?

Chance like he is the 5th pick not the 50th pick.

- Chance to have constant minutes (20+)
- Chance to make defensive mistakes without being immediately janked off the court like a fool
- Chance to get 15-20 shots a game even when his shot was not going in to build confidence

I am really curious about your opinion, maybe someone could make a poll ...

pepe1991 · Post #702 » by **pepe1991** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 12:48 pm

it would be nice, if he leaves Magic to hear from him honest opinion what was going on through his second year and how much Skiles yelled when doors were closed during his rookie year.

Post #703 » by **UCF** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 2:26 pm

Hoyti Von Totiy wrote:Well all said seen and done, who here thinks Mario really had a constant chance with this team now he is as well as gone?

Chance like he is the 5th pick not the 50th pick.

- Chance to have constant minutes (20+)
- Chance to make defensive mistakes without being immediately janked off the court like a fool
- Chance to get 15-20 shots a game even when his shot was not going in to build confidence

I am really curious about your opinion, maybe someone could make a poll ...

They drafted a project and he never grew into a player worth the fifth pick. He did get the chances he should have but never elevated his game. It’s a real shame.

fendilim · Post #704 » by **fendilim** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 2:36 pm

Still think he is gone. Even if management would want to sign him, i doubt he wants to come back.

Skybox · Post #705 » by **Skybox** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 3:52 pm

Hoyti Von Totiy wrote:Well all said seen and done, who here thinks Mario really had a constant chance with this team now he is as well as gone?

Chance like he is the 5th pick not the 50th pick.

- Chance to have constant minutes (20+)
- Chance to make defensive mistakes without being immediately janked off the court like a fool
- Chance to get 15-20 shots a game even when his shot was not going in to build confidence

I am really curious about your opinion, maybe someone could make a poll ...

I think we blew it with Mario...The more he plays the better he plays (confidence). He's got all the tools you want in a modern wing and he's said to be a hard worker. He came into the league with a rep as having a cocky swagger which he's lost (or had taken). His defense and decision making need a lot of work (on-court experience). I didn't completely oppose not picking up his option because we hadn't seen anything good since Skiles. Now that we're playing him, he looks good with potential to be more and he's got no reason to stay and we have no control. Top 5 pick on a crappy team - play him while you still have his rights. Repeat.

I am completely willing to bet he will do well on another team with an alpha PG keeping him in his lane, barking at him, and patting him on the ass. That image of AG, Isaac, Mario, and Evan being directed by, say Kemba Walker (or similar-who clearly outrank them all), with Biyombo picking and boarding and Simmons and Ross off the bench is intriguing to say the least. Trae Young could be that guy but it's probably difficult for a 19 year old rookie to come in and lead, unless his skills are truly superior from day one. Not to digress, but I think Mario would contribute consistently when he's not asked to come in and make his own shots, compete for attention, etc.

Again, any feelings about why he WOULD stay? Can't blame previous FO for not picking up his option. Are we playing him now with apologies for that? What can be said to him or his reps to keep him (other than no other team out-bidding our $5m top offer)? I wonder how he feels about the team right now...does he accept responsibility for last couple of years lack of progress? (unlikely in this day and league)...would love an informed opinion as to whether we COULD even keep him if he keeps playing well.

Post #706 » by **MagicMadness** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 4:14 pm

The guy seems to be playing better with more consistent minutes (who would've guessed it, right?).

I do hope we find a way to keep him, mainly because I'd hate to lose a top-5 pick for nothing. I get the feeling we wouldn't be playing him so much if we didn't still have future plans for him (as a part of this team or as an asset).

Airgordon00 · Post #707 » by **Airgordon00** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 4:53 pm

I might be the only one but I believe mario would be better off starting and have Simmons come off the bench where he can have the ball in his hands more and have more luck against backups getting to the rim. Plus Mario has better vision and is more of a threat from outside.

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PennytoShaq · Post #708 » by **PennytoShaq** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 5:03 pm

I agree that Mario should start. Mainly because the Magic are looking to trade Evan so we may as well use Mario while we can. He is also fun to watch. I want to see a fun,wing based offense play close games that they lose due to youth and lack of depth.

Mario does have better vision,which we need more of in the starting lineup. His problem is his decision making is not the greatest.

thelead · Post #709 » by **thelead** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 5:17 pm

UCF wrote:
Hoyti Von Totiy wrote:Well all said seen and done, who here thinks Mario really had a constant chance with this team now he is as well as gone?

Chance like he is the 5th pick not the 50th pick.

- Chance to have constant minutes (20+)
- Chance to make defensive mistakes without being immediately janked off the court like a fool
- Chance to get 15-20 shots a game even when his shot was not going in to build confidence

I am really curious about your opinion, maybe someone could make a poll ...

They drafted a project and he never grew into a player worth the fifth pick. He did get the chances he should have but never elevated his game. It’s a real shame.

Other teams start their lotto picks while we bench them. Other than Oladipo’s rookie year, this team has f’ed up development. Out of all our lotto picks, Elf is the only one that has been given real opportunities for a lotto pick. Isaac continues the bench trend. It’s unbelievable considering how terrible we’ve been for that span but we keep starting/featuring the same players over our lotto picks.

thelead · Post #710 » by **thelead** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 5:19 pm

I’m not up to date on the CBA, someone mentioned we can’t offer Mario more than the option ($5mil per season) while other teams obviously can. Is this true?

p0peye · Post #711 » by **p0peye** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 5:42 pm

If our management can't make the right call on a guy who's part of the team for 2+ seasons, than why bother with the draft?

OrlandoDream · Post #712 » by **OrlandoDream** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 6:21 pm

I still think we are just trying to increase his trade value. I dont see Mario coming back next season. He has shown improvement but for his 3rd year, I was expecting more. Isaac and Gordon are our forwards of the future anyway. Then you also have a draft with Porter jr, Bridges, and Knox all in our range.

On top of that, Wes Iwundu is playing some great basketball. He already looks better then Mario in his decision making, passing, ball movement, and defense. Mario has had 3 years in the NBA to figure it out and he is letting a rookie like Iwundu look more nba ready and mature than him. that's just unacceptable and tells me Mario will never be anything more than a bench man. Another player that is time to cut loose. Im all for shipping the Henny guys besides AG.

yoyojw17 · Post #713 » by **yoyojw17** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 6:24 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:I agree that Mario should start. Mainly because the Magic are looking to trade Evan so we may as well use Mario while we can. He is also fun to watch. I want to see a fun,wing based offense play close games that they lose due to youth and lack of depth.

Mario does have better vision,which we need more of in the starting lineup. His problem is his decision making is not the greatest.

as i said on many occasions.... i like fournier.... but i only saw him as a place holder until mario becomes able to be given the keys. Ideally he and vooch would have been traded for future picks or sideways for comparable talent at a position of need. even when simmons is healthy....... i hope mario retains his position as starter. I also believe this is good for the team as well.... simmons would be a great punch off the bench.

Post #714 » by **MagicMadness** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 7:08 pm

Hezonja needs to stay in the SL, Simmons off the bench.

Simmons was always meant to be a very good 6th man leading the second unit.

I'm impressed with what we're seeing out of Mario right now. I really hope Vogel and the Magic ride this out, because it's going to be annoying if Mario leaves for nothing and becomes an important piece elsewhere.

Xatticus · Post #715 » by **Xatticus** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 12:35 am

thelead wrote:I’m not up to date on the CBA, someone mentioned we can’t offer Mario more than the option ($5mil per season) while other teams obviously can. Is this true?

That is correct. Not only is he an unrestricted free agent, but we are capped on how much we can offer him. I really don't believe he is going to get a contract paying him more than the option we turned down. That said, the rumors at the time the option was declined was that he wanted out. That probably factored into their decision to decline the option and it probably means he has no interest in returning to Orlando.

I don't really care what one's individual opinion is of Hezonja's abilities. It's pretty difficult to dispute that we botched his development. Since he was drafted, we've had two coaches that just aren't that interested in developing talent. Both Skiles and Vogel have had preferences for untalented veterans over talented, but mistake-prone, rookies. I definitely did not expect that Vogel would be the far more egregious offender in this regard.

We paid Jeff Green 15 million to act as a co-conspirator in sabotaging the development of our fifth overall draft selection. This isn't about entitling young players. It is about committing to drafting and developing talent. If you aren't willing to commit to the process, what the hell is the point of keeping picks at the top of the draft? You are far better off just trading the pick away.

tiderulz · Post #716 » by **tiderulz** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 1:32 am

MagicMadness wrote:Hezonja needs to stay in the SL, Simmons off the bench.

Simmons was always meant to be a very good 6th man leading the second unit.

I'm impressed with what we're seeing out of Mario right now. I really hope Vogel and the Magic ride this out, because it's going to be annoying if Mario leaves for nothing and becomes an important piece elsewhere.

unless he has made a point to talk about contract extension, who cares if he starts or not. If he isnt coming back to us, we have no reason to play him more, raise his value to some other team.

fendilim · Post #717 » by **fendilim** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 2:33 am

OrlandoDream wrote:I still think we are just trying to increase his trade value. I dont see Mario coming back next season. He has shown improvement but for his 3rd year, I was expecting more. Isaac and Gordon are our forwards of the future anyway. Then you also have a draft with Porter jr, Bridges, and Knox all in our range.

On top of that, Wes Iwundu is playing some great basketball. He already looks better then Mario in his decision making, passing, ball movement, and defense. Mario has had 3 years in the NBA to figure it out and he is letting a rookie like Iwundu look more nba ready and mature than him. that's just unacceptable and tells me Mario will never be anything more than a bench man. Another player that is time to cut loose. Im all for shipping the Henny guys besides AG.

I’d take Mario over Wes anytime of the day.

AdamTheGreek · Post #718 » by **AdamTheGreek** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 3:04 am

Glad he's showing signs of what we were hoping to see, but it's coming about three months too late for the Magic in retaining him. It's weird. If he keeps playing like this, the Magic might be able to deal him for something (or in a nice package) in a month.

Because if we keep him the rest of the season, I'd be stunned if we re-sign him. He'd get more money in Europe if we're the only NBA team to offer him. And if he continues playing well, we won't have enough money to offer than another NBA team that would want him.

And even if we wanted to retain him at a decent price, I don't understand why Mario would want to stay here. He's currently behind Simmons, Evan, Ross, and we need to give Iwundu minutes.

Considering our losing ways, we should continue giving him as many minutes as possible over the next month and see if we can package him.

fendilim · Post #719 » by **fendilim** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 3:24 am

AdamTheGreek wrote:Glad he's showing signs of what we were hoping to see, but it's coming about three months too late for the Magic in retaining him. It's weird. If he keeps playing like this, the Magic might be able to deal him for something (or in a nice package) in a month.

Because if we keep him the rest of the season, I'd be stunned if we re-sign him. He'd get more money in Europe if we're the only NBA team to offer him. And if he continues playing well, we won't have enough money to offer than another NBA team that would want him.

And even if we wanted to retain him at a decent price, I don't understand why Mario would want to stay here. He's currently behind Simmons, Evan, Ross, and we need to give Iwundu minutes.

Considering our losing ways, we should continue giving him as many minutes as possible over the next month and see if we can package him.

Are overseas players getting more money now than NBA players? i mean Hezonja, at tops we could offer 5 million. Do european teams offer more than that?

OrlandoDream · Post #720 » by **OrlandoDream** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 3:47 am

fendilim wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:I still think we are just trying to increase his trade value. I dont see Mario coming back next season. He has shown improvement but for his 3rd year, I was expecting more. Isaac and Gordon are our forwards of the future anyway. Then you also have a draft with Porter jr, Bridges, and Knox all in our range.

On top of that, Wes Iwundu is playing some great basketball. He already looks better then Mario in his decision making, passing, ball movement, and defense. Mario has had 3 years in the NBA to figure it out and he is letting a rookie like Iwundu look more nba ready and mature than him. that's just unacceptable and tells me Mario will never be anything more than a bench man. Another player that is time to cut loose. Im all for shipping the Henny guys besides AG.

I’d take Mario over Wes anytime of the day.

Wes looks better as a rookie within his first 22 games then mario who is currently in his 3rd season. WE can only make excuses for him for so long. I guarantee you that in Iwundus 3rd year he will be a better player then Mario is now.