Game Thread: Phoenix Suns vs Orlando Magic Friday March 4th....

[ORLMagicGirl15]

ultimate chuckers team of misfit mascots
meanwhile Harris
17 ppg 50%fg 46% 3pt

but yeah it was a very good trade for us trading for a chucking cap space that we wont use because none will come here anyway

I know people are trying to justify that trade to make themselves feel better but I seriously think that Tobias asked to be traded. His production went down with Skiles here and I don't blame him if he did.

[The Real Dalic]

Vuc has more aggresive haters than Elf does, you can see it in this thread. . . It's not close.

Some of the same people that said Elf had the most aggressive haters are attacking Vuc viciously right here. I especially love all the "he's lazy" comments, that literally describes Elf about 75% of games this year, he has no motor anymore for whatever reason. I don't care about the excuses I know I'm gonna hear about Skiles this, or Skiles that, he needs to give a damn or this team has no chance.

Oh, come on! You really want to turn the thread into a Vuc haters Vs Payton haters thread for some reason? Vuc is simply getting criticised after a HORRIBLE game. This is his 5th season in the league. He's played crappy defense for (i'll be generous) 75% of the time he's played on this team. Cry me a river.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy, the "Payton Defenders" get all up in arms over the smallest of criticisms when it comes to Payton, but are so ready to throw Vuc/Fournier under the bus.

[The Real Dalic]

Skiles shouldn't bench all starters in 3Q
He should leave ag and hezonja in
We didn't score for 6,5 mins and didn't play bad

I didn't watch the game, but I usually agree with this. I'm all for the pulling a player out of the game if he makes mistakes thing, but I don't understand punishing someone that's playing well, it sends the wrong message, imo. I'm a guy that likes Skiles for the record, just never understood pulling all the players out.

and best comment so far ... "I didnt watch the game ":)
but ive got so much to say about it

I didn't say I knew anything, my posts in this thread are in general. I didn't point to anything specific because I couldn't watch it, no cable and no wifi. I only had the boxscore.

[The Real Dalic]

ultimate chuckers team of misfit mascots
meanwhile Harris
17 ppg 50%fg 46% 3pt

but yeah it was a very good trade for us trading for a chucking cap space that we wont use because none will come here anyway

You're right, Harris would've lead us to the promise land!

Not sure why people are overrating Harris now all of a sudden.

staying with the core would lead us to the promise land eventually isnt this what Henny the God and his suporters were preachin?

We spent some much time( AND I MEAN PLAYING TIME) to develop this guy just to throw a towel because he is just a top 50 player not top 10 and in top of that we got nothing in return.

I only remember he said he wanted to grow organically, he wants to make a team that can be sustainable, Harris has peaked though and was no longer neccessary to us. On top of that, he was holding back AG/Mario, it was smart to move Harris. Now, if you wanted to talk about our return, I won't really argue with you. But Henny clearly made the move for cap space, whether you agree with that plan or not that's why he made the trade.

[Gomagic44]

Who said that? Stop acting like people here still wouldn't be complaining even if we blew them out.

Kind of odd how you took offense to what I said don't you think?

Why would I take offense to what you said? I watched the game. I'm pretty sure most here are "real" fans or they wouldn't be following the team. You think there are bandwagoners of the magic? Lmao

You being a glutton for punishment doesn't make me any less of a fan. Last night was a **** show.





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Idk maybe because you went out of your way on your iPhone to respond to me? It had to of made you feel some type of way.

I'm not calling anyone a "fake" fan if that's what you're getting at.

But there are trolls here and it's easy to seperate them. As well as Mario has brought on quite a crowd of new fans from over sea's that may not understand where this team is at.

Clearly it was a **** show. Welcome to the NBA where kids that aren't old enough to rent a car yet are going to struggle during a 82 game season. Wow what a discovery! Let's gut the whole team they suck! Better yet why don't you coach Zmill!!

No true Scotsman. Hey, why don't we just keep what we have for another 3 years and wait for this magic potential to unlock itself lol. I'm fed up with losing. I don't expect us to contend but we can at least look like a decent squad out there. We have no identity ATM, at least in a good way.


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[MagicStarwipe]

The game was lost when Skiles sat EP for 7 minutes of the 2nd quarter and we went to our slow crappy motion offense. We couldn't break out of it from there.

Nah...

The game was tied at the end of the 1Q (29-29) EP played all of it. Skiles sat EP/Mario to begin the 2Q and they sat until the 5 minute mark - the score was (44-42).

In that 5 minute span to close out the half is when EP started to fall apart and Price began affecting hm - after missing a jump shot he thought he was fouled on, the following possession he gets the call but clanks both free throws badly...this is when Vuc visibly began to show frustration about not being able to stop Suns bigs. The score to close the half was (58-50).

Within the first two minutes of the second half:

• EP starts of the half by pounding the ball near the mid court line for most of the shot clock - with his defender standing a good 15 feet away, then screws up the screen and dumps the ball to Vuc who is forced to launch an off balance long two - that is partially blocked.
• Next possession he gets called for traveling after dribbling himself into the corner off an inbound pass
• He then bricked a long two with 20 seconds on the shot clock
• Next possession he makes a line drive kamikaze dive straight into 3 defenders - he missed badly
• He then stole mid court pass, but decided to go 1-1 vs Chandler (with a wide open Hezonja trailing him) and again missed badly
• He then makes lazy long pass over the mid court line that Price steals and takes for a dunk.

Skiles is forced to call a time out...the single digit lead has at this point ballooned to 17 within 2 minutes of the 2nd Half. The tempo and double digit lead was never lost by the Suns after that.

For the rest of the game Ronnie MF Price frustrates him and distorts the offense. I love EP, but he is not ready for a starting role if the Magic want to win games...which I guess doesn't really matter anymore.

1st quarter we scored 29 (but the defence was still crappy). We then proceeded to put up 21, 16 and 18 with the same crappy defense. You like EP but you're basically pinning the loss on him? The only guy that could get anything going all game (besides Mario when we finally remembered he was on the court for that brief moment in 3rd). The game slowed way down, we went to our crappy half court offense and the results were predictable. To compound that we let them completely punk us on the other end. Look, we brought in Jennings... and wouldn't you know it, EP is still the best PG on the roster. Evidently the offense doesn't seem to suit any of our PG's, because for them to thrive in it, they have to be good and willing shooters. EP is neither, Brandon is willing and I don't know what the heck CJ is. EP could absolutely work in an offense with more ball movement and less standing around. There's a reason the offense looks way better with the EP/Dipo/Mario/AG/Vuc lineup when Mario and AG are actually touching the ball and Vuc and Dipo aren't playing ball stopper.

[ezzzp]

1st quarter we scored 29 (but the defence was still crappy). We then proceeded to put up 21, 16 and 18 with the same crappy defense. You like EP but you're basically pinning the loss on him? The only guy that could get anything going all game (besides Mario when we finally remembered he was on the court for that brief moment in 3rd). The game slowed way down, we went to our crappy half court offense and the results were predictable. To compound that we let them completely punk us on the other end. Look, we brought in Jennings... and wouldn't you know it, EP is still the best PG on the roster. Evidently the offense doesn't seem to suit any of our PG's, because for them to thrive in it, they have to be good and willing shooters. EP is neither, Brandon is willing and I don't know what the heck CJ is. EP could absolutely work in an offense with more ball movement and less standing around. There's a reason the offense looks way better with the EP/Dipo/Mario/AG/Vuc lineup when Mario and AG are actually touching the ball and Vuc and Dipo aren't playing ball stopper.

The momentum shift on the offensive end came from EP's mistakes; the momentum shift on the defensive end came off of Vuc's inability to contain Len. Its on both of them really.

Skiles didn't force the game to slow down. That is what happens when the defense is totally sucking and the offense is taking the ball out of net. It is also what happens when an 80 year old grunt Ronnie MFN Price stifles and grinds your PG to mud pace. Skiles can't go out there and dictate the tempo, EP has to do that - he is the Point Guard.

CJ and Jennings are horrible - neither can shoot - at least CJ plays some defense...and Napier omg - even in slop time is horrific. What other options does Skiles have to go to?

[MagicStarwipe]

1st quarter we scored 29 (but the defence was still crappy). We then proceeded to put up 21, 16 and 18 with the same crappy defense. You like EP but you're basically pinning the loss on him? The only guy that could get anything going all game (besides Mario when we finally remembered he was on the court for that brief moment in 3rd). The game slowed way down, we went to our crappy half court offense and the results were predictable. To compound that we let them completely punk us on the other end. Look, we brought in Jennings... and wouldn't you know it, EP is still the best PG on the roster. Evidently the offense doesn't seem to suit any of our PG's, because for them to thrive in it, they have to be good and willing shooters. EP is neither, Brandon is willing and I don't know what the heck CJ is. EP could absolutely work in an offense with more ball movement and less standing around. There's a reason the offense looks way better with the EP/Dipo/Mario/AG/Vuc lineup when Mario and AG are actually touching the ball and Vuc and Dipo aren't playing ball stopper.

The momentum shift on the offensive end came from EP's mistakes; the momentum shift on the defensive end came off of Vuc's inability to contain Len. Its on both of them really.

Skiles didn't force the game to slow down. That is what happens when the defense is totally sucking and the offense is taking the ball out of net. It is also what happens when an 80 year old grunt Ronnie MFN Price stifles and grinds your PG to mud pace. Skiles can't go out there and dictate the tempo, EP has to do that - he is the Point Guard.

CJ and Jennings are horrible - neither can shoot - at least CJ plays some defense...and Napier omg - even in slop time is horrific. What other options does Skiles have to go to?

But is that really what happened? I don't have a photographic memory, nor have I watched the game a 2nd time, but we were taking it out of the net in the 1st quarter as well weren't we? And wasn't Booker on Payton most of the game? I thought the offensive momentum swung in the 2nd quarter when we struggled our way to a mere 21 points. I thought that had more to do with lineups and style of play.

[seeingstars]

Not a single Magic highlight on the game highlight reel from Nba.com.


I didnt even know that could happen

[ezzzp]

1st quarter we scored 29 (but the defence was still crappy). We then proceeded to put up 21, 16 and 18 with the same crappy defense. You like EP but you're basically pinning the loss on him? The only guy that could get anything going all game (besides Mario when we finally remembered he was on the court for that brief moment in 3rd). The game slowed way down, we went to our crappy half court offense and the results were predictable. To compound that we let them completely punk us on the other end. Look, we brought in Jennings... and wouldn't you know it, EP is still the best PG on the roster. Evidently the offense doesn't seem to suit any of our PG's, because for them to thrive in it, they have to be good and willing shooters. EP is neither, Brandon is willing and I don't know what the heck CJ is. EP could absolutely work in an offense with more ball movement and less standing around. There's a reason the offense looks way better with the EP/Dipo/Mario/AG/Vuc lineup when Mario and AG are actually touching the ball and Vuc and Dipo aren't playing ball stopper.

The momentum shift on the offensive end came from EP's mistakes; the momentum shift on the defensive end came off of Vuc's inability to contain Len. Its on both of them really.

Skiles didn't force the game to slow down. That is what happens when the defense is totally sucking and the offense is taking the ball out of net. It is also what happens when an 80 year old grunt Ronnie MFN Price stifles and grinds your PG to mud pace. Skiles can't go out there and dictate the tempo, EP has to do that - he is the Point Guard.

CJ and Jennings are horrible - neither can shoot - at least CJ plays some defense...and Napier omg - even in slop time is horrific. What other options does Skiles have to go to?

But is that really what happened? I don't have a photographic memory, nor have I watched the game a 2nd time, but we were taking it out of the net in the 1st quarter as well weren't we? And wasn't Booker on Payton most of the game? I thought the offensive momentum swung in the 2nd quarter when we struggled our way to a mere 21 points. I thought that had more to do with lineups and style of play.

EP and offense was playing pretty good in the 1Q and even when EP sat through first half of the 2Q the offense was still playing well and kept the Magic in the game.

Its when EP and Mario returned in middle of 2Q that things went south, Magic only scored 8 points after that...and in the 3Q the Magic didn't score in first 2 minutes until Skiles yanked EP as his sequence of bad shots and mistakes ballooned the lead to 17...Magic never recovered from that.

[MagicStarwipe]

The momentum shift on the offensive end came from EP's mistakes; the momentum shift on the defensive end came off of Vuc's inability to contain Len. Its on both of them really.

Skiles didn't force the game to slow down. That is what happens when the defense is totally sucking and the offense is taking the ball out of net. It is also what happens when an 80 year old grunt Ronnie MFN Price stifles and grinds your PG to mud pace. Skiles can't go out there and dictate the tempo, EP has to do that - he is the Point Guard.

CJ and Jennings are horrible - neither can shoot - at least CJ plays some defense...and Napier omg - even in slop time is horrific. What other options does Skiles have to go to?

But is that really what happened? I don't have a photographic memory, nor have I watched the game a 2nd time, but we were taking it out of the net in the 1st quarter as well weren't we? And wasn't Booker on Payton most of the game? I thought the offensive momentum swung in the 2nd quarter when we struggled our way to a mere 21 points. I thought that had more to do with lineups and style of play.

EP and offense was playing pretty good in the 1Q and even when EP sat through first half of the 2Q the offense was still playing well and kept the Magic in the game.

Its when EP and Mario returned in middle of 2Q that things went south, Magic only scored 8 points after that...and in the 3Q the Magic didn't score in first 2 minutes until Skiles yanked EP as his sequence of bad shots and mistakes ballooned the lead to 17...Magic never recovered from that.

I don't know. I thought the offense became way more of a struggle when the 2nd quarter began. They weren't scoring as well but neither were we and we should have been able to build some separation on the scoreboard. To me we just changed the way we were playing in that 2nd quarter and never broke out of it. I don't think that's on one player. Payton did have some mistakes to start the 3rd but it would have been nice if our defense could have shown some resistance during that stretch also.

[ezzzp]

But is that really what happened? I don't have a photographic memory, nor have I watched the game a 2nd time, but we were taking it out of the net in the 1st quarter as well weren't we? And wasn't Booker on Payton most of the game? I thought the offensive momentum swung in the 2nd quarter when we struggled our way to a mere 21 points. I thought that had more to do with lineups and style of play.

EP and offense was playing pretty good in the 1Q and even when EP sat through first half of the 2Q the offense was still playing well and kept the Magic in the game.

Its when EP and Mario returned in middle of 2Q that things went south, Magic only scored 8 points after that...and in the 3Q the Magic didn't score in first 2 minutes until Skiles yanked EP as his sequence of bad shots and mistakes ballooned the lead to 17...Magic never recovered from that.

I don't know. I thought the offense became way more of a struggle when the 2nd quarter began. They weren't scoring as well but neither were we and we should have been able to build some separation on the scoreboard. To me we just changed the way we were playing in that 2nd quarter and never broke out of it. I don't think that's on one player. Payton did have some mistakes to start the 3rd but it would have been nice if our defense could have shown some resistance during that stretch also.

defense should have held, and on paper the 2nd unit should have abused Suns...neither did = L

[Viper1500]

I'm a fan of Vucevic but there is a reason why Milwaukee is playing better now that they have benched Monroe in place of a Plumlee.

[OrlandO]

I'm a fan of Vucevic but there is a reason why Milwaukee is playing better now that they have benched Monroe in place of a Plumlee.

And what reason is that?

[ezzzp]

I'm a fan of Vucevic but there is a reason why Milwaukee is playing better now that they have benched Monroe in place of a Plumlee.

Nah, that switch is just for balance...similar to the Oladipo move....Plumlee started the last 10 games but barely plays 20 mpg - he had one game were he played 28 but most are in the teens. Monroe's minutes are the same at +30 mpg. He has closed every game, just like Oladipo did.

[basketballRob]

Vuc has more aggresive haters than Elf does, you can see it in this thread. . . It's not close.

Some of the same people that said Elf had the most aggressive haters are attacking Vuc viciously right here. I especially love all the "he's lazy" comments, that literally describes Elf about 75% of games this year, he has no motor anymore for whatever reason. I don't care about the excuses I know I'm gonna hear about Skiles this, or Skiles that, he needs to give a damn or this team has no chance.

Oh, come on! You really want to turn the thread into a Vuc haters Vs Payton haters thread for some reason? Vuc is simply getting criticised after a HORRIBLE game. This is his 5th season in the league. He's played crappy defense for (i'll be generous) 75% of the time he's played on this team. Cry me a river.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy, the "Payton Defenders" get all up in arms over the smallest of criticisms when it comes to Payton, but are so ready to throw Vuc/Fournier under the bus.

I like Founier but not Vuc.

[basketballRob]

I'm a fan of Vucevic but there is a reason why Milwaukee is playing better now that they have benched Monroe in place of a Plumlee.

And what reason is that?

Vuc is a jump shooting center that averages 45% from mid range that equates to 30% from 3 pt. I think our number go to guy on offense should be Gordon, Dipo, or Founier, someone who could potentially draw a foul. It just doesn't seem like a winning recipe to me when a substantial number of your shots are long two pt fga. Plus you have to factor the sub par defense.

[OrlandO]

I'm a fan of Vucevic but there is a reason why Milwaukee is playing better now that they have benched Monroe in place of a Plumlee.

And what reason is that?

Vuc is a jump shooting center that averages 45% from mid range that equates to 30% from 3 pt. I think our number go to guy on offense should be Gordon, Dipo, or Founier, someone who could potentially draw a foul. It just doesn't seem like a winning recipe to me when a substantial number of your shots are long two pt fga. Plus you have to factor the sub par defense.

I didn't ask you. And your answer has nothing to do with the comparison viper is trying to make. Monroe doesn't take jumpers at all.

[basketballRob]

And what reason is that?

Vuc is a jump shooting center that averages 45% from mid range that equates to 30% from 3 pt. I think our number go to guy on offense should be Gordon, Dipo, or Founier, someone who could potentially draw a foul. It just doesn't seem like a winning recipe to me when a substantial number of your shots are long two pt fga. Plus you have to factor the sub par defense.

I didn't ask you. And your answer has nothing to do with the comparison viper is trying to make. Monroe doesn't take jumpers at all.

You're right their stats are nearly identical but their most common trait is bad defense.

[OrlandO]

Vuc is a jump shooting center that averages 45% from mid range that equates to 30% from 3 pt. I think our number go to guy on offense should be Gordon, Dipo, or Founier, someone who could potentially draw a foul. It just doesn't seem like a winning recipe to me when a substantial number of your shots are long two pt fga. Plus you have to factor the sub par defense.

I didn't ask you. And your answer has nothing to do with the comparison viper is trying to make. Monroe doesn't take jumpers at all.

You're right their stats are nearly identical but their most common trait is bad defense.

Plumlee is not a good defender. He is giving up 57% fg at the rim as a starter, which is worse than both Monroe and Vuc. Monroe's minutes also remain unchanged despite coming off the bench. The Bucks are playing well because they're staggering their talent (MCW also coming off bench now playing big minutes) and finally allowing Parker to be the scorer he was drafted to be (increased his minutes and shot attempts, averaging 20 ppg in last 10). The Vuc comparison was a lazy one.