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fklt wrote:frazier is their peak, really. drafting a player that drops out of a G league rotation in just 2 months and hates basketball, because arms. you would think iwundu would be hard to top.
fklt wrote:frazier is their peak, really. drafting a player that drops out of a G league rotation in just 2 months and hates basketball, because arms. you would think iwundu would be hard to top.
MagicMatic wrote:EAS Law wrote:OrlandoNed wrote:Unfortunately some people are content with mediocrity.
Ironically, I agree with EAS that some on this board lack patience. The ones who are lacking it are the ones like EAS who are so desperate to have their team become decent enough to make the 8th seed, they are willing to see it happen on the backs of veterans at their ceilings as players in contract years who will either leave for nothing at the end of the year or will have to be overpaid in order to keep. That's impatience. What isn't impatience is sitting through 7 years of incompetence and still be willing to take the time to tank as long as necessary to acquire the foundational pieces of a championship roster, but still being frustrated seeing management being too willing to do what we all know doesn't lead to titles.
You don’t go from lotto to contender in one season in almost any case. Don’t you think that if it were as simple as “tank and collect championships” that any and every team not finish the season at the top of the conference would do so?
Here’s the thing EAS. It’s not even about tanking. It’s about showing that they, as the FO, have a direction and can instill confidence in the fan base by doing anything that illustrates progress. Pushing for playoffs with essentially the same. exact. roster. Hennigan got fired for fielding doesn’t make sense. Give or take some raw rookies and different inconsequential journeymen.
All that does is lead people into believing this is the roster they are confident in, and why would they believe that? If it isn’t, then why even push for playoffs in the first place? To sacrifice a season with players that won’t be here next year. All at the expense of a good draft pick with players actually heralded as “once in a generation” athletes? None of it makes sense and makes them look inept, helpless, or controlled.
EAS Law wrote:MagicMatic wrote:EAS Law wrote:
You don’t go from lotto to contender in one season in almost any case. Don’t you think that if it were as simple as “tank and collect championships” that any and every team not finish the season at the top of the conference would do so?
Here’s the thing EAS. It’s not even about tanking. It’s about showing that they, as the FO, have a direction and can instill confidence in the fan base by doing anything that illustrates progress. Pushing for playoffs with essentially the same. exact. roster. Hennigan got fired for fielding doesn’t make sense. Give or take some raw rookies and different inconsequential journeymen.
All that does is lead people into believing this is the roster they are confident in, and why would they believe that? If it isn’t, then why even push for playoffs in the first place? To sacrifice a season with players that won’t be here next year. All at the expense of a good draft pick with players actually heralded as “once in a generation” athletes? None of it makes sense and makes them look inept, helpless, or controlled.
This is probably where the miscommunication is happening.
If this team is our finished product, then I’m completely on board with the views I’ve been opposing.
I do not believe that this is our finished-product team. I believe that WeHam is doing exactly what you mentioned by hiring a coach like Clifford. My view is that each year you add talent to your team through the draft, you will presumably be better the next season. What that means is that it becomes more and more difficult to both add talent AND tank simultaneously.
Obviously, in our situation where we haven’t yet had a 1st overall pick since our rebuild, that puts you in the “treadmill area”. That’s not where you WANT to be, but my point is that there are about 10 teams right now in a great position that never tanked and simply added talent through trade, FA and good scouting. We can do the same
Additionally, we are never going to be good if we are impatient and trade whatever positive we have on the team for some fool’s gold player or a chance at a better one in the draft. We made that mistake with Oladipo and gave up prematurely.
I don’t think anyone at all is content with being where we are now, but this “tank until you’re a contender” model has worked exactly once with Philly in recent memory. Even then, Philly has wasted about 2 or 3 top picks between Fultz, Noel and Okafor. It’s not an exact science as some here claim it to be. Philly got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons and that’s all there was to it. Even Philly has their struggles and probably isn’t even close to being a true championship contender.
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Pretty obvious our trade deadline will be tied to where we are in terms of 8th seed come February 7th. Here is our January Schedule and those teams records as of today and standing.
Orlando Magic (14-16) 8th in the EastDec 31st- Hornets (15-15) 7th in East
Jan 2nd- Bulls (7-25) 15th in East
Jan 4th-TWolves (14-17) 14th in the West
Jan 6th- Clippers (18-13) 6th in the West
Jan 7th- Kings (16-15) 10th in the West
Jan 9th- Jazz (15-17) 12th in the West
Jan 12th- Celtics (18-12) 5th in the East
Jan 13th- Rockets (16-15) 8th in the West
Jan 18th- Nets (15-18) 10th in the East
Jan 19th- Bucks (21-9) 2nd in the East
Jan 21st- Hawks (7-23) 14th in the East
Jan 23rd- Nets (15-18) 10th in the East
Jan 25th- Wizards (12-20) 11th in the East
Jan 27th- Rockets (16-15) 8th in the West
Jan 29th- Thunder (20-10) 2nd in the West
Jan 31st- Pacers (20-12) 4th in the East
During this Span:
We play 8 teams that are currently in playoff contention.
We play 3 games with teams (Bulls, TWolves & Hawks) that are tanking/downright bad.
5 toss up games- > the Nets x2 Jazz, Kings and Wizards.
9 of 16 games VS Eastern Conference opponents.
We have 3 back to backs -> Clipps & Kings 6-7th, Celtics & Rockets 12-13th, Nets & Bucks 18-19th.
Longest trip is a 6 Game Road Trip from Dec 31st to January 9th.
MagicMatic wrote:EAS Law wrote:MagicMatic wrote:
Here’s the thing EAS. It’s not even about tanking. It’s about showing that they, as the FO, have a direction and can instill confidence in the fan base by doing anything that illustrates progress. Pushing for playoffs with essentially the same. exact. roster. Hennigan got fired for fielding doesn’t make sense. Give or take some raw rookies and different inconsequential journeymen.
All that does is lead people into believing this is the roster they are confident in, and why would they believe that? If it isn’t, then why even push for playoffs in the first place? To sacrifice a season with players that won’t be here next year. All at the expense of a good draft pick with players actually heralded as “once in a generation” athletes? None of it makes sense and makes them look inept, helpless, or controlled.
This is probably where the miscommunication is happening.
If this team is our finished product, then I’m completely on board with the views I’ve been opposing.
I do not believe that this is our finished-product team. I believe that WeHam is doing exactly what you mentioned by hiring a coach like Clifford. My view is that each year you add talent to your team through the draft, you will presumably be better the next season. What that means is that it becomes more and more difficult to both add talent AND tank simultaneously.
Obviously, in our situation where we haven’t yet had a 1st overall pick since our rebuild, that puts you in the “treadmill area”. That’s not where you WANT to be, but my point is that there are about 10 teams right now in a great position that never tanked and simply added talent through trade, FA and good scouting. We can do the same
Additionally, we are never going to be good if we are impatient and trade whatever positive we have on the team for some fool’s gold player or a chance at a better one in the draft. We made that mistake with Oladipo and gave up prematurely.
I don’t think anyone at all is content with being where we are now, but this “tank until you’re a contender” model has worked exactly once with Philly in recent memory. Even then, Philly has wasted about 2 or 3 top picks between Fultz, Noel and Okafor. It’s not an exact science as some here claim it to be. Philly got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons and that’s all there was to it. Even Philly has their struggles and probably isn’t even close to being a true championship contender.
The draft aside, they should have made changes via trade or during either of the drafts to show a plan.
The question becomes again - If this isn’t the final version of the team they want (the core starters), then why shoot for playoffs if it isn’t the case? Also, why do it at the expense of a good draft pick? They’ve managed to do neither successfully IMO.
Nobody is saying to outright tank like philly, but at least that’s A direction that actually produces assets to a team without many.
Nobody believes that further reinvesting in this team’s starters AGAIN is an excusable move.
EAS Law wrote:MagicMatic wrote:EAS Law wrote:This is probably where the miscommunication is happening.
If this team is our finished product, then I’m completely on board with the views I’ve been opposing.
I do not believe that this is our finished-product team. I believe that WeHam is doing exactly what you mentioned by hiring a coach like Clifford. My view is that each year you add talent to your team through the draft, you will presumably be better the next season. What that means is that it becomes more and more difficult to both add talent AND tank simultaneously.
Obviously, in our situation where we haven’t yet had a 1st overall pick since our rebuild, that puts you in the “treadmill area”. That’s not where you WANT to be, but my point is that there are about 10 teams right now in a great position that never tanked and simply added talent through trade, FA and good scouting. We can do the same
Additionally, we are never going to be good if we are impatient and trade whatever positive we have on the team for some fool’s gold player or a chance at a better one in the draft. We made that mistake with Oladipo and gave up prematurely.
I don’t think anyone at all is content with being where we are now, but this “tank until you’re a contender” model has worked exactly once with Philly in recent memory. Even then, Philly has wasted about 2 or 3 top picks between Fultz, Noel and Okafor. It’s not an exact science as some here claim it to be. Philly got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons and that’s all there was to it. Even Philly has their struggles and probably isn’t even close to being a true championship contender.
The draft aside, they should have made changes via trade or during either of the drafts to show a plan.
The question becomes again - If this isn’t the final version of the team they want (the core starters), then why shoot for playoffs if it isn’t the case? Also, why do it at the expense of a good draft pick? They’ve managed to do neither successfully IMO.
Nobody is saying to outright tank like philly, but at least that’s A direction that actually produces assets to a team without many.
Nobody believes that further reinvesting in this team’s starters AGAIN is an excusable move.
I think the plan is going to be to add a good PG through FA.
If we make the playoffs, we become a more desirable destination for a guy like say DeAngelo Russel. We also have a shot at Kemba and maybe Wall. None of those appear to be PERFECT additions, but think of what our team looks like with one of them right now.
Then think of the fact that JI, Bamba, and AG are all projected to get better and keep improving.
In the meantime, Fournier and eventually Mozgov will expire and then we have cap room again. Lots.
I don’t agree with the ideas floating around here that we are fed up with the FO despite playing better than we have in the last 7 years and all of the complaints are purely speculative.
Again, we wasted about 5 years with Hennigan, but this is year 2 and we have no choice but to be patient.
MagicMatic wrote:EAS Law wrote:MagicMatic wrote:
The draft aside, they should have made changes via trade or during either of the drafts to show a plan.
The question becomes again - If this isn’t the final version of the team they want (the core starters), then why shoot for playoffs if it isn’t the case? Also, why do it at the expense of a good draft pick? They’ve managed to do neither successfully IMO.
Nobody is saying to outright tank like philly, but at least that’s A direction that actually produces assets to a team without many.
Nobody believes that further reinvesting in this team’s starters AGAIN is an excusable move.
I think the plan is going to be to add a good PG through FA.
If we make the playoffs, we become a more desirable destination for a guy like say DeAngelo Russel. We also have a shot at Kemba and maybe Wall. None of those appear to be PERFECT additions, but think of what our team looks like with one of them right now.
Then think of the fact that JI, Bamba, and AG are all projected to get better and keep improving.
In the meantime, Fournier and eventually Mozgov will expire and then we have cap room again. Lots.
I don’t agree with the ideas floating around here that we are fed up with the FO despite playing better than we have in the last 7 years and all of the complaints are purely speculative.
Again, we wasted about 5 years with Hennigan, but this is year 2 and we have no choice but to be patient.
There is more than sufficient evidence that this core of players isn’t good enough to realistically compete for a championship with or (way more likely) without any of those guard options you listed. That’s the point. There isn’t THAT much room for growth. Orlando isn’t a destination for free agents until they legitimate competitors. There is no go-to guy that can close out games. It’s extremely idealistic to think a yet-to-be naked free agent will save this organization. It’s not what people seeking instant gratification want to hear, but this team needs to be blown up on the worst way.
MagicFan101 wrote:MagicMatic wrote:EAS Law wrote:I think the plan is going to be to add a good PG through FA.
If we make the playoffs, we become a more desirable destination for a guy like say DeAngelo Russel. We also have a shot at Kemba and maybe Wall. None of those appear to be PERFECT additions, but think of what our team looks like with one of them right now.
Then think of the fact that JI, Bamba, and AG are all projected to get better and keep improving.
In the meantime, Fournier and eventually Mozgov will expire and then we have cap room again. Lots.
I don’t agree with the ideas floating around here that we are fed up with the FO despite playing better than we have in the last 7 years and all of the complaints are purely speculative.
Again, we wasted about 5 years with Hennigan, but this is year 2 and we have no choice but to be patient.
There is more than sufficient evidence that this core of players isn’t good enough to realistically compete for a championship with or (way more likely) without any of those guard options you listed. That’s the point. There isn’t THAT much room for growth. Orlando isn’t a destination for free agents until they legitimate competitors. There is no go-to guy that can close out games. It’s extremely idealistic to think a yet-to-be naked free agent will save this organization. It’s not what people seeking instant gratification want to hear, but this team needs to be blown up on the worst way.
By using the phrase “this core” you expose the misunderstanding that plagues most of your well intended posts.
WE DO NOT HAVE A CORE!
A core consists of at least one super star and some all stars around him.
We 100% do not have a super star. We might have a player or two capable of becoming one of those all star teammates.
But we need to find that super star (at any position) before we can talk about building a core.
Finding those super stars is hard while crippling yourself with bad contracts is easy. This is why I enjoy the philosophy of drafting for potential over need and the patience in spending that WeHam has shown so far. ... hopefully they don’t ruin it by giving Vuc a big extension.
SOUL wrote:People need to temper their expectations on tanking or getting a top 3 pick. Ain't happening unless we trade Vuc or we lose multiple players for a long amount of time.
Ducklett wrote:If we aren't planning on tanking, someone draw me a path to how we win a championship.
Not with amorphous comments like "Sign 2-3 superstar free agents FOREHEAD".
OrlandO wrote:fklt wrote:frazier is their peak, really. drafting a player that drops out of a G league rotation in just 2 months and hates basketball, because arms. you would think iwundu would be hard to top.
He wasn't dropped from Lakeland's rotation... Orlando recalled him. And where did you hear he hates basketball?
Nemesis21 wrote:Ducklett wrote:If we aren't planning on tanking, someone draw me a path to how we win a championship.
Not with amorphous comments like "Sign 2-3 superstar free agents FOREHEAD".
I unveil to you, the first ever all 6'9" and up, under 235lbs lineup.
PG Aaron Gordon 6'9" 230
SG Bol Bol 7'2" 225 (2019 pick)
SF Jonathan Isaac 7'0" 225
PF Mo Bamba 7'1" 215
C James Wiseman 7'1" 230 (2020 pick)
I am dead.
2030 NBA Champions
