Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[Blue_and_Whte]

Vuc is the only player who has been here for all 7 losing season. He may be on to something. Three coaches fired, another with a 2-5 record and getting balder by the day. Dipo tuned into an allstar, Harris turned into a guy that may be an allstar someday. Payton doing his thing in Nolans. Is everyone else the problem? Or is it the guy who can't play Defense that has good Offensive skills that seem to stall everyone else on the team? Remember our biggest win streaks since the rebuild have come when Vuc has been out of the lineup.

He isn't onto anything. Vuc has his own flaws, but he isn't responsible for a poorly built and managed team losing during an extended rebuild. It's incredibly hard to win consistently with so many 20-23 year olds who need years of developing and bad to average vets with no all-star player to carry them.

Our biggest signings were Channing Frye, Jeff Green and Bismack Biyombo. Biggest trades involved giving away our best developing players in Oladipo and Harris and a lotto pick for declining vet rentals who didn't want to be here and shouldn't have been here. Drafted lottery players who needed their entire rookie contracts (or more) to develop their shooting... at positions that require shooting. Now we've hit the reset and are in the midst of rebuilding a failed rebuild. We still don't have an all star, still lacking players with basic skills and still drafted projects. There isn't a player on this team who could start winning us games in Vuc's absence right now. That's the reality. Hopefully this time we can find perimeter players and a star to make sense of our new defensive frontcourt investment. If that doesn't happen we will continue losing long after Vuc is gone.

And no, we didn't go on any big winning streaks without Vuc. Every time we've had a stretch where we've played above expectations it's been with Vuc heavily in the mix.

This is what people that like to point fingers at players dont get. They'd love a Sabonis for Vuc swap but not realize we'd see the same same level of success. Nothing would change. When you build a team with 2nd/3rd tier players, you're not going to get 1st tier results. Someone like Sabonis is thriving off of playing with Victor.

Moving forward we have to get elite scoring talent or we're going to be in the same boat we're in right now. That's why its idiotic and stupid to point at any specific player and blame that player for management putting together a poorly built team.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The only thing that really matters this season is Isaac and Bamba playing minutes, staying healthy and showing improvements. I'm not really too caught up in the whole "they need X amount of shots or this is a waste!" ideology.

Those guys are the only two players I'm 100% confident will be here this time next season.

Gordon could be certainly, but I think he's already being shopped. Fournier will probably be back simply because of his contract, but I'm sure they'd be interested in getting rid of him too if a deal is out there to be had.

Everyone else is totally expendable, including Vucevic.

Exactly.

[Xatticus]

7 years of the same circle going nowhere is not going to teach these kids how to build a chemistry and how to win games unless they start winning them.

They are going to lose anyway. So you would rather they lose in roster situations they won’t be a part of in a year rather than lose playing with lineups they will. That’s what we are arguing about here. The only difference is that the latter actually benefits the organization more in the long run.

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

Your argument falls apart when you realize that you are supporting the path that has made us a laughing stock. We aren't choosing between winning and losing. We are choosing between losing and losing. If it was just a matter of learning how to win games, you'd think we'd have made some progress on that front. Maybe we just keep acquiring players with learning disabilities?

It's all about talent and our "best" players just don't have much of it. As Branch Rickey once said to a player he had traded due to a contract dispute: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

[bargnanimvp]

We are building a team around defense when all the rules are trying to kill defensive teams and better built defensive teams are complaining to the league office they are being stiffled.

Some people on previous pages were complaining we don't play our rookies like some other rookies get played, i'd say that's largely because our recent rookies tend to be projects who can't play the same roles guys like luka and trae can play out of the gates.

The Magic aren't "building a team around defense" for the goodness sake.

They simply drafted the best player available in both of the last two drafts. It just so happened to be guys with high defensive potential and perhaps not the greatest offensive potential.

They know they need scorers at the guard spots. They're not ignoring that. They just haven't had a chance to address it yet.

And for what it's worth, last year's lotto pick has started every game and is some foul trouble away from playing 25+ minutes a night. This year's lotto pick has played every game, is getting every backup C minute and is even getting a few backup PF minutes to get him on the floor even more. They're both playing a lot.

Sure they know they need scorers but they've also said multiple times they want a strong defensive identity to be their cornerstone so yes defense is heavy in their minds.

[bargnanimvp]

We are building a team around defense when all the rules are trying to kill defensive teams and better built defensive teams are complaining to the league office they are being stiffled.

Some people on previous pages were complaining we don't play our rookies like some other rookies get played, i'd say that's largely because our recent rookies tend to be projects who can't play the same roles guys like luka and trae can play out of the gates.

shouldnt you play projects? to get an idea exactly where they are at, how quickly they can adjust?

And we do play them, we just don't let them do anything they want like doncic and trae get at times because like i said they aren't as polished in that kind of role.

[pepe1991]

OrlandO with some truth bombs today

[darthmerrick]

The only thing that really matters this season is Isaac and Bamba playing minutes, staying healthy and showing improvements. I'm not really too caught up in the whole "they need X amount of shots or this is a waste!" ideology.

Those guys are the only two players I'm 100% confident will be here this time next season.

Gordon could be certainly, but I think he's already being shopped. Fournier will probably be back simply because of his contract, but I'm sure they'd be interested in getting rid of him too if a deal is out there to be had.

Everyone else is totally expendable, including Vucevic.

[/quote]
QFT!

Issac has the second best field go percentage of all the starters, but is the fifth option whenever he is on the floor. Bamba has arguably been our best player this year, just needs to bulk up get his air and he will displace Vuc as starter. We know Issac has offense, but he is frozen out with the other guys he is playing with while being asked to carry the defensive load to make up for Augustin, Fournier and Vuc's poor D. Our players are crap, why are people fighting so hard to keep Vuc and Fournier together?

We all want to see Grant, Ross, Issac, Gordon, bamba on the floor together. Grant is not an answer at point, can play Pick n roll D though of which Augustin is costing us every time he is on the floor. Coach needs to get smart and realize some guys are bad lineups to play together.

[BadMofoPimp]

They are going to lose anyway. So you would rather they lose in roster situations they won’t be a part of in a year rather than lose playing with lineups they will. That’s what we are arguing about here. The only difference is that the latter actually benefits the organization more in the long run.

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

Your argument falls apart when you realize that you are supporting the path that has made us a laughing stock. We aren't choosing between winning and losing. We are choosing between losing and losing. If it was just a matter of learning how to win games, you'd think we'd have made some progress on that front. Maybe we just keep acquiring players with learning disabilities?

It's all about talent and our "best" players just don't have much of it. As Branch Rickey once said to a player he had traded due to a contract dispute: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

Your post makes no sense because Players don't play the game with intention of looking bad and losing. Coaches don't lose games on purpose or try to hurt team Chemistry by being a crappy coach. Thus, your logic is flawed.

[Skin]

The new "City" jersey's for this year. Looks like they've moved away from having the stars all over the uniforms, and instead have a side panel in the shape of the ball and stars trail of the main logo. Not sure how I feel about them, we will see how they look when the players wear them in a game.

Like anything in black for us. This one has a lot of black and it's nice. Don't care for the oversized logo in the front though. Thanks for the share!

[MagicStarwipe]

The new "City" jersey's for this year. Looks like they've moved away from having the stars all over the uniforms, and instead have a side panel in the shape of the ball and stars trail of the main logo. Not sure how I feel about them, we will see how they look when the players wear them in a game.

I really dislike our current jerseys and logo and this is no exception. The league rules prevent us from going back to our original branding and uniform, but we're allowed to go back to it with some slight changes. We need to do that, and stick with it (and please don't make them V-neck!). Why we moved away from such a great iconic jersey only to replace them with jerseys that got gradually worse every time we change them I will never understand.

[MagicFan101]

Not sure if anyone is talking about this already. But ...

The Memphis Grizzlies waived guard Andrew Harrison, General Manager Chris Wallace announced today.

Harrison (6-6, 213) appeared in 129 games (64 starts) over three seasons with the Grizzlies and averaged 7.4 points, 2.1 rebounds and 2.9 assists in 21.7 minutes.

While starting most of last season he averaged 9.5 ppg, 3.2 ast, 2.3 reb, 33% 3-pts.

Those numbers look mighty similar to DJ for us last year but in a 24 year old, 6'6 kid.

Worth taking a shot?

[Skin]

What do you prefer?

Losing based off bad games from Bamba, Isaac and Gordon?

or

Losing based off good games from Vucevic and Fournier?

[tiderulz]

The only thing that really matters this season is Isaac and Bamba playing minutes, staying healthy and showing improvements. I'm not really too caught up in the whole "they need X amount of shots or this is a waste!" ideology.

Those guys are the only two players I'm 100% confident will be here this time next season.

Gordon could be certainly, but I think he's already being shopped. Fournier will probably be back simply because of his contract, but I'm sure they'd be interested in getting rid of him too if a deal is out there to be had.

Everyone else is totally expendable, including Vucevic.

QFT!

Issac has the second best field go percentage of all the starters, but is the fifth option whenever he is on the floor. Bamba has arguably been our best player this year, just needs to bulk up get his air and he will displace Vuc as starter. We know Issac has offense, but he is frozen out with the other guys he is playing with while being asked to carry the defensive load to make up for Augustin, Fournier and Vuc's poor D. Our players are crap, why are people fighting so hard to keep Vuc and Fournier together?

We all want to see Grant, Ross, Issac, Gordon, bamba on the floor together. Grant is not an answer at point, can play Pick n roll D though of which Augustin is costing us every time he is on the floor. Coach needs to get smart and realize some guys are bad lineups to play together.

sorry, no, Bamba has not been the best player this year.

[thelead]

Not sure if anyone is talking about this already. But ...

The Memphis Grizzlies waived guard Andrew Harrison, General Manager Chris Wallace announced today.

Harrison (6-6, 213) appeared in 129 games (64 starts) over three seasons with the Grizzlies and averaged 7.4 points, 2.1 rebounds and 2.9 assists in 21.7 minutes.

While starting most of last season he averaged 9.5 ppg, 3.2 ast, 2.3 reb, 33% 3-pts.

Those numbers look mighty similar to DJ for us last year but in a 24 year old, 6'6 kid.

Worth taking a shot?

Didn't like him or his brother coming out of HS... still don't. He's probably better than Grant as a PG but I wouldn't bother.

[VFX]

Players don't plan on losing games. Coaches don't plan on losing games. This is their job and learning to win is their mission.

You must really want the Magic to be the laughing stock of the league for 10-15 years like the Kings.

What part of this don't you understand?

Your argument falls apart when you realize that you are supporting the path that has made us a laughing stock. We aren't choosing between winning and losing. We are choosing between losing and losing. If it was just a matter of learning how to win games, you'd think we'd have made some progress on that front. Maybe we just keep acquiring players with learning disabilities?

It's all about talent and our "best" players just don't have much of it. As Branch Rickey once said to a player he had traded due to a contract dispute: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

Your post makes no sense because Players don't play the game with intention of looking bad and losing. Coaches don't lose games on purpose or try to hurt team Chemistry by being a crappy coach. Thus, your logic is flawed.

You don’t get it. If this team loses with the vets they should be playing the younger guys instead regardless. Your logic is flawed if the results are the same it doesn’t matter.

At a certain point Clifford is going to be looking at the future as he should be doing now. There’s no point in sticking with vets that won’t be here when he’s should be prepping with the players that will be here a year from now.

[drsd]

Not only is Orlando the worst scoring team in the league, in a year where scoring average is hovering around 110 ppg, the Magic is a full 2.8 ppg worse than the 29th team.

Orlando's offense is worse than bad.


..

[BadMofoPimp]

Your argument falls apart when you realize that you are supporting the path that has made us a laughing stock. We aren't choosing between winning and losing. We are choosing between losing and losing. If it was just a matter of learning how to win games, you'd think we'd have made some progress on that front. Maybe we just keep acquiring players with learning disabilities?

It's all about talent and our "best" players just don't have much of it. As Branch Rickey once said to a player he had traded due to a contract dispute: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."

Your post makes no sense because Players don't play the game with intention of looking bad and losing. Coaches don't lose games on purpose or try to hurt team Chemistry by being a crappy coach. Thus, your logic is flawed.

You don’t get it. If this team loses with the vets they should be playing the younger guys instead regardless. Your logic is flawed if the results are the same it doesn’t matter.

At a certain point Clifford is going to be looking at the future as he should be doing now. There’s no point in sticking with vets that won’t be here when he’s should be prepping with the players that will be here a year from now.

And, they will play the youth more after mid-season. Never to start a season. This is why you and all others from RealGM boards can argue until blue in the face, but will never happen.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The only thing that really matters this season is Isaac and Bamba playing minutes, staying healthy and showing improvements. I'm not really too caught up in the whole "they need X amount of shots or this is a waste!" ideology.

Those guys are the only two players I'm 100% confident will be here this time next season.

Gordon could be certainly, but I think he's already being shopped. Fournier will probably be back simply because of his contract, but I'm sure they'd be interested in getting rid of him too if a deal is out there to be had.

Everyone else is totally expendable, including Vucevic.

QFT!

Issac has the second best field go percentage of all the starters, but is the fifth option whenever he is on the floor. Bamba has arguably been our best player this year, just needs to bulk up get his air and he will displace Vuc as starter. We know Issac has offense, but he is frozen out with the other guys he is playing with while being asked to carry the defensive load to make up for Augustin, Fournier and Vuc's poor D. Our players are crap, why are people fighting so hard to keep Vuc and Fournier together?

We all want to see Grant, Ross, Issac, Gordon, bamba on the floor together. Grant is not an answer at point, can play Pick n roll D though of which Augustin is costing us every time he is on the floor. Coach needs to get smart and realize some guys are bad lineups to play together.

This isnt even close to being accurate.

[Knightro]

Vucevic has pretty clearly been the best player so far. Say whatever you want about his stats being empty calories, and there's some truth to that, but he's been extremely productive.

You could maybe make the case that Bamba has been the second best player, but I'd probably rank him as the third best 7 games in.

[Knightro]

While starting most of last season he averaged 9.5 ppg, 3.2 ast, 2.3 reb, 33% 3-pts.

Those numbers look mighty similar to DJ for us last year but in a 24 year old, 6'6 kid.

Worth taking a shot?

I wouldn't mind taking a flyer.

Only problem is- who do you cut? Iwundu and Frazier have guaranteed contracts and I'm guessing the Magic wouldn't want to eat that money for someone who might not even be an upgrade at all.

Briscoe is non-guaranteed, so they possibly could go that route.

I'd probably just roll with the guys they have and look to give Grant's minutes to Briscoe.