Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[Bensational]

Transcendent talent??? Well if you call any rookie capable of being the lead playmaker of a team right out of the bat then I guess. Although what i had in mind is " just a good player and future allstar" no need for top50 of all time like what lbj is and luka is becoming. Bear in mind I only compared Giddey to Luka is becuase and i repeat, luka was a 6'8ish rookie immediately thrust into the lead playmaker role the same as what you envision to Giddy.

But if you are asking me if Fultz would.be better and lead the team.properly next season with Green Chuma JI and WCJ/Bamba compared to a Cole Green Giddy JI WCJ/Bamba theb BIG YES for me.

Also, if our FO sees and reaearched and decided that Giddy would be a good pickup for us as the backup bench PG/playmaker then im totally fine with it. What I cant get aboard is if we thrust Giddey as the LEAD playmaker unless we all think he can habdle it in a team full of young guys because i think those guys wont be able to.maximize their skills if so.

Lonzo and LaMelo are also tall playmakers, and LaMelo had experience in the same league as Giddey. Ben Simmons is another tall Australian playmaker. Luka and LBJ are in entirely different stratosphere’s to those guys, but I don’t think you’d call any of them failures or bad playmakers. All of them took on starting roles and point guard/playmaking responsibilities as rookies, all with very different styles. Luka and LeBron were franchise superstars from day 1.

Why don’t you think Giddey could run point for an NBA team? From all I’ve read it’s simply because he’s 6’8 but not Luka. Have you watched much tape on Giddey?

Also, you haven’t explained why you’re so optimistic about Fultz and why he would have a better impact on a young team when so far he’s only shown to have a negative impact on a veteran team (off netrtg and general play rankings).

Dantr 6'6 Exum is also a tall playmaker from the NBL right? Yeah Ben Simmons as a rookie also is a good example for the luka lbj comparison/tier i have for rookies that can lead a team.

Personally I dont think Giddey can handle a team of rookies and 2nd yr players and be succesful for the team. Ill be the first to admit at 1st glance this guy screams high bbiq though. Giddey can be MCW as a another tall playmaking rookie and average tripdubs and win ROY but his team sucked and didnt improve. I guess what I dont believe is he will be able to handle the ball through traffic like Fultz can and be in the perfect spot to set his teammate up.

Its the team im thinking about and not Giddeys development. Of course I could aleays br wrong about my prediction like a lot of times but it is my prediction.

Nah, Exum was a high schooler, he never played against adults.

You don’t like Lonzo or LaMelo? I’d take either over anyone on this team right now.

Whether the other rookies/sophomores struggle won’t be Giddey’s fault because his game is all about finding his teammates. But like I said, you could shore up the playmaking by bringing in a veteran PG to play the 1 and share those responsibilities the way Rozier and Bledsoe were brought in as safety nets for the Ball bros.

Given all we’ve seen from Fultz so far, I just struggle to understand why you’d be so gung-ho about him. We know he can’t shoot or space a floor after 4 professional seasons. We know he has two major injuries he’s working through. The improvements he was making will all be set back again with these new injuries.

[pepe1991]

What a hell are you two even discussing?

For start, no, Fultz never showed "stedy improvment".
He played 33 games for Philadelphia and was on pace for worst bust since Bennett. Easly one of worst 1# picks ever.

After Orlando trade, he logged 80 additional games where his game never looked like anything more than future backup on solid team, 2020-21 Derick Rose type player . All that before torn ACL.
During his 2020-21 season, in 8 games before injury , his jumpshot was actually worst than in previous year. He couldn't even pull up from mid range in that period.


As for Giddey, Giddey has nice size, but looks like minus athlete to me. Slowfooted , very little hoops, almost no latheral speed. How execlly he will be running point guard in nba if he can't even take people off the dribble in Australia?
On top of that he pretty much can't shoot.
And pointing out Ben Simmons is from Australia is pointless. He was 20 ppg scorer at college and viewed as runaway best prospect in the world for that year. There is really no similarities other than their birth continent. Ben is 6'10, 240 pounds , +35 inch vertical uberathlete with incredible speed. After Giannis & Lebron,he is probably best pure athlete in nba taller than 6'7.


Giddey, from what i could figure, is more of Joe Ingles- without jumpshot type of guy. He understands angles, has nice floor vision and understands how plays should be executed. But he will never be lead playmaker in nba.


And for love of the God stop Doncic comparisons. Doncic is simply next level to everybody. Easly best player/prospect since Durant.

[pepe1991]

Vuc developed a 3 pt shot. so did Brook Lopez. Jason Kidd, MAgic Johnson. Ariza took 8 years to shoot above 33% from 3. Tobias Harris went from 26% from 3 to near 40% now. Julius Randle came into the league without a 3 pt shot and shot 40% this year, his 7th in the league.

Ja Morant shoots the 3 at 30%, he must suck, yet he is effective. I doubt Memphis thinks he will always shoot it at 30%.

Shooting isnt a gift, it is a skill and talent that can be improved upon. some acquire that talent easier and faster, for others it is harder and takes more effort and time. Just depends if someone is willing to put in that effort.

Debunking all claims

Vuc developed a 3 pt shot.

Vucevic is spending a lot of time here working on his jump shot, which looked terrific in the session we watched. At one point, Vucevic knocked down 11 straight college-three pointers, showing terrific mechanics in the process. Considering he made a solid 39% of his catch and shoot jumpers last season according to Synergy Sports Technology, - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/nikola-vucevic-5828/ ©DraftExpress

Vucevic most defenetly did have solid jumpshot before nba, but much like Lopez, being 1990s kid as center, shooting simply in early and mid 2010s wasn't thing.

Possessing range out to college three point line, he was able to open up the floor for his brother Robin with his ability to score from the perimeter. We had the chance to observe Lopez this summer during an open gym session at the LeBron James Skills Academy, where we were surprised to see that he can even shoot the ball with consistency out to the NBA three point line. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/brook-lopez-545/ ©DraftExpress

( 2007 article )

Code: Select all

, MAgic Johnson.

Johnson was career 30% three point shooter who over 13 years made 325 threes. Elfrid Payton in 7 seasons made 189 on 29% for 3.
During season when Magic took most threes 1989- 1990, nba teams shot 7 threes a game at average.
Players did not shoot 3s in his era. Period. Magic Johnson, in today's era would probably become good shooter, because he was career 85% FT shooter, but again, in his era 3 point shooting wasn't thing.

Jayson Kidd
Kidd shot 34,9% for 3 for career. In year 2 of his career he shot 33,6% for 3 on 92 attemps in single season. Wtf he "develop" ? In third year he already shot 37% for 3 .

Tobias Harris went from 26% from 3 to near 40% now.

[color=#008000]Cherrypicking much? He shot 6/23 during whole lenght of a season you are using for example.
In year two, with Orlando, right after a trade he shot 40% in February & 36% for 3. Than he had godawful streach in April ( 6/29) so it knocked down his 3% to 31,5% for Orlando. Not really that suprising, considering we were draining him for 41 mpg, forcefed him into 1# option and 24% usage rate. Guy was 20.[/color]

Ja Morant shoots the 3 at 30%, he must suck, yet he is effective. I doubt Memphis thinks he will always shoot it at 30%.

Ja isn't terrible shooter tho. Ja shot 33,5% for 3 as a rookie. In general his TS% is below league's average anyway.

Using all your examples as evidence, it's not hard to see that all those guys showed ability to shoot than just developed upon it.
Over years player can improve upon their standstill shooting, but Jimmy Butler will never become Steph Curry if he "puts in work" because deadeye shooters are deadeye shooters and they simply have more natural talent for it. Case closed.

lol, "debunking all claims", lol

no one said Vuc didnt have a solid jump shot, but he didnt have 3 pt range. when he tried 1+ attempt a game at age 26 (past when you think players can improve) he shot 30% and then 31% the next year. the last 3 years he shot 40%, 40% and 39%. That is called improving.

Kidd was not a good 3 pt shooter early in his career and worked to develop it better. He said so himself.
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2010/04/17/kidd-targets-a-weakness-and-gives-mavericks-a-better-shot/

But as time went on, Kidd grew tired of having that hole in his game. He didn't like it when people said he couldn't shoot. And he hated it when he lost the post-practice shooting games with teammates......Before he arrived in Dallas, Kidd's career 3-point percentage was .334. Since joining the Mavericks, he's had a .421 percentage.

as for HArris, would it help if i use 2013-2014 when he took 126 shots at 25%

I notice you left player of other players alone that didnt fit your narrative.

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

Last year you claimed Doncic is "bad" shooter when i tried to explain that level of difficulty of his shots is way harded than most spot up shooters.
Year prior you and one moderator were drooling over Cam Reddish and how he just needs more time to develop.

Kidd shot 37% for 3 on attemps a game in second year. Try to explain how is that "bad". How is being 2% over league's average " bad" ? Doesn't matter what he said, he shot worst for career than he did in second year. During his apsolut prime (29 yeras old) he shot 34% for 3 on 4,6 attemps.

as for HArris, would it help if i use 2013-2014 when he took 126 shots at 25%

Harris also shot 32% for 3 for Philadelphia 2 years ago.
31,5 in sophmore season.

Tobias Harris is career 36,7% three point shooter. He reached that level in 4th year of his career.


You keep going on Vuc but refuse to acnoledge that in times when Vuc didn't shoot 3s in whole damn nba only 1 center was shooting 3s. Frye. But you refuse to acnoledge it because it hurts your point. Naturally.

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

Can be improved. But you are not making new Steph Curry by having bad shooter sleep in gym.
Also you never answered my question.
Why , if shooting is so easy to fix, Gordon, Payton, Fultz, Isaac, Howrad , Ben Simmons and many, many many other players never become good shooters?
Why Giannis, in his 8th year in nba improved virtually everything in his game, but to this date, he is career 29% three point shooter who happends to shot 30,3% for 3 in his eight season?
Why can't he just fix it? Doesn't train hard enough ?

[RookieStar]

Lonzo and LaMelo are also tall playmakers, and LaMelo had experience in the same league as Giddey. Ben Simmons is another tall Australian playmaker. Luka and LBJ are in entirely different stratosphere’s to those guys, but I don’t think you’d call any of them failures or bad playmakers. All of them took on starting roles and point guard/playmaking responsibilities as rookies, all with very different styles. Luka and LeBron were franchise superstars from day 1.

Why don’t you think Giddey could run point for an NBA team? From all I’ve read it’s simply because he’s 6’8 but not Luka. Have you watched much tape on Giddey?

Also, you haven’t explained why you’re so optimistic about Fultz and why he would have a better impact on a young team when so far he’s only shown to have a negative impact on a veteran team (off netrtg and general play rankings).

Dantr 6'6 Exum is also a tall playmaker from the NBL right? Yeah Ben Simmons as a rookie also is a good example for the luka lbj comparison/tier i have for rookies that can lead a team.

Personally I dont think Giddey can handle a team of rookies and 2nd yr players and be succesful for the team. Ill be the first to admit at 1st glance this guy screams high bbiq though. Giddey can be MCW as a another tall playmaking rookie and average tripdubs and win ROY but his team sucked and didnt improve. I guess what I dont believe is he will be able to handle the ball through traffic like Fultz can and be in the perfect spot to set his teammate up.

Its the team im thinking about and not Giddeys development. Of course I could aleays br wrong about my prediction like a lot of times but it is my prediction.

Nah, Exum was a high schooler, he never played against adults.

You don’t like Lonzo or LaMelo? I’d take either over anyone on this team right now.

Whether the other rookies/sophomores struggle won’t be Giddey’s fault because his game is all about finding his teammates. But like I said, you could shore up the playmaking by bringing in a veteran PG to play the 1 and share those responsibilities the way Rozier and Bledsoe were brought in as safety nets for the Ball bros.

Given all we’ve seen from Fultz so far, I just struggle to understand why you’d be so gung-ho about him. We know he can’t shoot or space a floor after 4 professional seasons. We know he has two major injuries he’s working through. The improvements he was making will all be set back again with these new injuries.

Melo i like, Lonzo not so.. I dunno maybe my eyes are decieving me but Melo just seems more fluid and plays faster than Lonzo.

TBH, last year/tgis season was supposwd to be where i could finally decide if there is hope for Fultz. Dude before playing with us was even scared to take a junpshot. Now he is taking 3s even though it clanks. When he arrived and played his more or less full season with us i treated it as his rookie year.. so this season if he finally plays again then i can judge if he is a bust or not.

[SOUL]

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

Can be improved. But you are not making new Steph Curry by having bad shooter sleep in gym.
Also you never answered my question.
Why , if shooting is so easy to fix, Gordon, Payton, Fultz, Isaac, Howrad , Ben Simmons and many, many many other players never become good shooters?
Why Giannis, in his 8th year in nba improved virtually everything in his game, but to this date, he is career 29% three point shooter who happends to shot 30,3% for 3 in his eight season?
Why can't he just fix it? Doesn't train hard enough ?

In the sense of saying "If x is so easy, why can't x player do x?" You will find any examples for any player to prove a point. Defense, ball handling, awareness, passing, effort.. we can all give examples of players where it DOESN'T work... if I had the energy to post players that DID improve their shooting a decent amount or even massively, I can name like probably 50+ in the last 10 years easily.

Just off the top of my head taking 10 seconds to look up, a few starting guards that have are Kemba, Lowry, and even Marcus Smart can hit 5+ threes a game. The former were like sub 30% three point shooter for four/five years before consistently putting up 35%+ years.. and this is thinking for like 20 secs of guys I remember being really bad shooters at some point. Even Jaylen Brown was really bad in college his one year and looks like a great three point shooter in the NBA. That's 3 examples on one team alone

Even with your examples:

Gordon was a 40% FT shooter in college to around 70% in NBA. Had two years of NBA where he shot over 34% from three and this year for us shot 37% (small sample size) - obviously still not a great shooter, but at least can hit a few a game.

Isaac shouldn't even be on list. Hovers around 34% and looked really comfortable from the corners before his consecutive injuries. 80% from FT line. Again, never going to be a sharpshooter but not someone you can disregard as a non-threat from three.

Payton, sure, never became good shooter.

Fultz was one and then the shoulder stuff.

Howard/Simmons don't even try. Howard developed a bit of a mid-range game but nothing beyond that. They like to do their damage inside.

You have a point if people are saying these guys will turn into Duncan Robinson, then obviously no, a lot of guys do not develop into becoming someone you rely on for threes. That's changing their entire playstyle.

The point I think that tide is trying to be made here is that very rarely can you take a look at a college or NBA guy and say "He will be bad at shooting his entire career". Some guys prove that wrong from college straight into NBA, some take years in the NBA to develop that skill, but it gets there.. but if they have a skillset of Isaac where you know you are getting all-world defense, having shooting is a nice extra thing.

Also I don't think tide is saying it's easy.. it's that if someone has decent form and work ethic, it's something a lot of guys find easier than other skills. Some still never develop it, a lot do. It's a risk/reward scenario that a lot are willing to take the chance on.

My thing is, we need a pure go-to scorer. Some of the best scorers in NBA history were never great three point shooters, Jordan, Kobe, Wade. Different eras obviously, we can't ignore needing the ability to knock down the three, but having someone that just knows how to score, draw fouls, and create for themselves with ease will alleviate the pressure that our offense has faced the last .. however many years.

No one should ever draft ~looking~ for shooting. I can only see that as a viable option if the roster is already set and we need more guys that can stretch the floor, otherwise it's a crapshoot because a lot of the best shooters in college get exposed in the NBA OR take a few years to get to that level again, which in that case you might as well go for someone with more versatile scoring/upside.

[basketballRob]

Lonzo and LaMelo are also tall playmakers, and LaMelo had experience in the same league as Giddey. Ben Simmons is another tall Australian playmaker. Luka and LBJ are in entirely different stratosphere’s to those guys, but I don’t think you’d call any of them failures or bad playmakers. All of them took on starting roles and point guard/playmaking responsibilities as rookies, all with very different styles. Luka and LeBron were franchise superstars from day 1.

Why don’t you think Giddey could run point for an NBA team? From all I’ve read it’s simply because he’s 6’8 but not Luka. Have you watched much tape on Giddey?

Also, you haven’t explained why you’re so optimistic about Fultz and why he would have a better impact on a young team when so far he’s only shown to have a negative impact on a veteran team (off netrtg and general play rankings).

Dantr 6'6 Exum is also a tall playmaker from the NBL right? Yeah Ben Simmons as a rookie also is a good example for the luka lbj comparison/tier i have for rookies that can lead a team.

Personally I dont think Giddey can handle a team of rookies and 2nd yr players and be succesful for the team. Ill be the first to admit at 1st glance this guy screams high bbiq though. Giddey can be MCW as a another tall playmaking rookie and average tripdubs and win ROY but his team sucked and didnt improve. I guess what I dont believe is he will be able to handle the ball through traffic like Fultz can and be in the perfect spot to set his teammate up.

Its the team im thinking about and not Giddeys development. Of course I could aleays br wrong about my prediction like a lot of times but it is my prediction.

Exum played on a Australian Highschool Team, not the professional leaque & he was never a real PG. As a prospect he was much more a bit taller Barbosa (speedster, not much hops, straight line drives, defense, basic playmaking at best) than any of the mentioned players.

Elfrid could dribble through traffic too & had not much problem to get to the hoop. Didnt make him a good Basketballplayer without a shot. Plus Fultz isnt really a great playmaker. His vision is pretty average.

I'm not saying we should draft Giddey (i like him) but Fultz shoudnt be the reason to avoid a player in this or next years draft.

I agree with you about Exum. I think he had one good game in like a Nike Hoop Summit and everyone got infatuated with him. Giddey played an entire year in a professional league where the stats have recently translated well to the NBA. Pretty sure both RJ and Lamelo put up better stats in the NBA than the NBL.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[tiderulz]

Debunking all claims





Vucevic most defenetly did have solid jumpshot before nba, but much like Lopez, being 1990s kid as center, shooting simply in early and mid 2010s wasn't thing.

( 2007 article )

Code: Select all

, MAgic Johnson.

Johnson was career 30% three point shooter who over 13 years made 325 threes. Elfrid Payton in 7 seasons made 189 on 29% for 3.
During season when Magic took most threes 1989- 1990, nba teams shot 7 threes a game at average.
Players did not shoot 3s in his era. Period. Magic Johnson, in today's era would probably become good shooter, because he was career 85% FT shooter, but again, in his era 3 point shooting wasn't thing.

Jayson Kidd
Kidd shot 34,9% for 3 for career. In year 2 of his career he shot 33,6% for 3 on 92 attemps in single season. Wtf he "develop" ? In third year he already shot 37% for 3 .



[color=#008000]Cherrypicking much? He shot 6/23 during whole lenght of a season you are using for example.
In year two, with Orlando, right after a trade he shot 40% in February & 36% for 3. Than he had godawful streach in April ( 6/29) so it knocked down his 3% to 31,5% for Orlando. Not really that suprising, considering we were draining him for 41 mpg, forcefed him into 1# option and 24% usage rate. Guy was 20.[/color]



Ja isn't terrible shooter tho. Ja shot 33,5% for 3 as a rookie. In general his TS% is below league's average anyway.

Using all your examples as evidence, it's not hard to see that all those guys showed ability to shoot than just developed upon it.
Over years player can improve upon their standstill shooting, but Jimmy Butler will never become Steph Curry if he "puts in work" because deadeye shooters are deadeye shooters and they simply have more natural talent for it. Case closed.

lol, "debunking all claims", lol

no one said Vuc didnt have a solid jump shot, but he didnt have 3 pt range. when he tried 1+ attempt a game at age 26 (past when you think players can improve) he shot 30% and then 31% the next year. the last 3 years he shot 40%, 40% and 39%. That is called improving.

Kidd was not a good 3 pt shooter early in his career and worked to develop it better. He said so himself.
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2010/04/17/kidd-targets-a-weakness-and-gives-mavericks-a-better-shot/

But as time went on, Kidd grew tired of having that hole in his game. He didn't like it when people said he couldn't shoot. And he hated it when he lost the post-practice shooting games with teammates......Before he arrived in Dallas, Kidd's career 3-point percentage was .334. Since joining the Mavericks, he's had a .421 percentage.

as for HArris, would it help if i use 2013-2014 when he took 126 shots at 25%

I notice you left player of other players alone that didnt fit your narrative.

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

Last year you claimed Doncic is "bad" shooter when i tried to explain that level of difficulty of his shots is way harded than most spot up shooters.
Year prior you and one moderator were drooling over Cam Reddish and how he just needs more time to develop.

Kidd shot 37% for 3 on attemps a game in second year. Try to explain how is that "bad". How is being 2% over league's average " bad" ? Doesn't matter what he said, he shot worst for career than he did in second year. During his apsolut prime (29 yeras old) he shot 34% for 3 on 4,6 attemps.

as for HArris, would it help if i use 2013-2014 when he took 126 shots at 25%

Harris also shot 32% for 3 for Philadelphia 2 years ago.
31,5 in sophmore season.

Tobias Harris is career 36,7% three point shooter. He reached that level in 4th year of his career.


You keep going on Vuc but refuse to acnoledge that in times when Vuc didn't shoot 3s in whole damn nba only 1 center was shooting 3s. Frye. But you refuse to acnoledge it because it hurts your point. Naturally.

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

Can be improved. But you are not making new Steph Curry by having bad shooter sleep in gym.
Also you never answered my question.
Why , if shooting is so easy to fix, Gordon, Payton, Fultz, Isaac, Howrad , Ben Simmons and many, many many other players never become good shooters?
Why Giannis, in his 8th year in nba improved virtually everything in his game, but to this date, he is career 29% three point shooter who happends to shot 30,3% for 3 in his eight season?
Why can't he just fix it? Doesn't train hard enough ?

show me where i drooled over Cam Reddish..please, show me.
Kidd himself said he was a bad 3 pt shooter. and his 4th year, took just as many 3 pt shoots and shot 32%. at 27 he shot 30%, at 28 he shot 32%. so he was all over the map, not consistent.

Harris shot 36.7 his 4th year. What about his next years? 33%, 31% the following 2 years. 2 years prior to his 4th year, 25%, 31%.

And i didnt refuse to acknowledge anything about Vuc. I said he did not have a 3 pt shot. he developed it. something you always claim players cant do after their 3rd-4th year. at 27 he shot it 31%, then 36% then 34%. then the next 3 years at near 40%. so wow, he developed a consistent 3 pt shot. again, "developed"

and i never said anyone would become Steph Curry accurate. never. so stop trying to make it like i said that.

as i said im done. tilt away at your windmills

[tiderulz]

No one should ever draft ~looking~ for shooting. I can only see that as a viable option if the roster is already set and we need more guys that can stretch the floor, otherwise it's a crapshoot because a lot of the best shooters in college get exposed in the NBA OR take a few years to get to that level again, which in that case you might as well go for someone with more versatile scoring/upside.

think we tried that a couple of times didnt we? drafted or signed some of the best college 3 pt shooters and they couldnt make it out of G-League. Tyler Harvey was one. thought there was another one but i cant remember off the top of my head

[Knightro]

May 26 Big Board

Draft lotto ties have been broken. We now know the Magic's own draft pick will land 1-7 and the Bulls pick if it conveys will land 8-12. So let's bust out a new top 12 big board!

1. Cade Cunningham, SF, 20 years 1 month on Opening Night

Positives
-GREAT shooter (.400% 3PT on 155 attempts, .846 FT% on 156 attempts) and drew a ton of fouls (.390 FT Rate)
-Good anticipation, instincts and length on defense.
-Very good passer (5.4 AST/100)

Question Marks
-Not a point guard (6.2 TO/100) despite what older scouting reports say.
-Not very explosive, both vertically or with his first step.
-Was forced into a lot of tough shots by college defenders. Very low 2PT%.

2. Jalen Suggs, PG, 20 years 4 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Checks all the physical boxes for a point guard (6'4", 205) minus great length. Elite athleticism and great competitiveness.
-Great in transition, both as a passer and finisher, and should be a very capable halfcourt scorer and passer in pick and roll.
-Very strong college defender with the potential to be elite. Should be able to guard 1s and 2s.

Question Marks
-Just 33.7% from the college three. Not a terrible number like other guys later on the list, but certainly below average.
-Certainly has the passing and vision of a PG, but ball handling is more like a SG.
-Played on a stacked college with at least 3 NBA teammates. Can he be "the man" on a bad NBA team?

3. Jalen Green, SG, 19 years 8 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Will step in from Day 1 as one of the best athletes in the NBA at the SG position.
-Legitimate three-level scoring. Elite shotmaking potential. Could develop into a very dangerous shooter/scorer.
-High end finisher with his athleticism and body control.

Question Marks
-Really poor defender in the G-League bubble.
-Not very strong and has a thin frame. Hurts him on both ends, but particularly on defense. Gets pushed around a lot.
-Can make some plays for others, but not a natural, much more of a scorer.

4. Evan Mobley, C, 20 years 4 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Very good defensive big. Blocked shots (5.0 BLK/100). Didn't foul. Executed a lot of different coverages against PNR at a high level.
-At his best as a roll man offensively, both as a scorer and passer. Soft touch around the basket.
-Surprisingly good ball handler and passer (4.2 AST/100).

Question Marks
-Shooting form looks good, but ability to make is more theoretical (only 12 3PT makes, sub 70% FT) than actual right now.
-Needs to add *significant* strength if he's going to play C. Could mitigate that by playing PF, but has more of a C game.
-Not much ability to create his own offense right now. Not a guy you can give the ball to against a set defense and say "get points".

5. Jonathan Kuminga, SF, 19 years 0 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Ideal size, strength and athleticism for the modern two-way NBA wing, arguably the most valued archetype in the NBA.
-Very good slasher and got to the FT line at one of the highest rate in the G-League Bubble (much higher than Green by comparison)
-Tantalizing glimpses of shotmaking, playmaking and defense.

Question Marks
-Poor shooter with awful shot selection. Will likely increase percentages on better shot selection alone. Form doesn't look broken.
-Not consistent enough at anything right now. Plenty of flashes, but nothing NBA caliber right now.
-One of the youngest players of all the top prospects which cuts both ways. More runway to improve, but really inexperienced.

6. Scottie Barnes, PF, 20 years 2 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Best defender in the draft. Does *everything* well. Great lateral quickness & recovery speed. Legit All-Defensive Team potential.
-Every intangible you could possibly ask for. Leadership. Energy. Passion. Motor. Competitiveness.
-Not a point guard, but as good of a playmaker as you'll find for a guy that's 6'9" 225. (9.4 AST/100, nearly double Cunningham)

Question Marks
-Deadly combo of poor and unwilling perimeter shooter. Everything about his jumper is off. Bad footwork. Slow hitchy release.
-In addition to being a poor shooter, he's not really a good scorer/slasher either.
-His playmaking could be cancelled out by complete lack of ability to make shots in the halfcourt.

7. Alperen Şengün, C, 19 years 3 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Most productive 18-year-old in the history of European basketball. PTS, REB, AST, STL, BLK at an unprecedented level for his age.
-Free throw stroke (80%) indicates there's 3PT potential. Literally every 80% FT center in the NBA currently also makes threes.
-Extremely skilled. Some of the softest hands I've ever seen. Not Jokic level, but rapidly developing court vision/passing.

Question Marks
-Center game in a power forward body. Does a below-the-rim game translate for a 6'10" 240 pounder who doesn't hit 3s right now?
-Will the shooting develop? The FT% says it should, but it hasn't yet.
-No clue how to defend in space. Much better around the basket, but not big or explosive enough to be a dominant rim protector.

8. Franz Wagner, PF, 20 years 2 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Great defensive skill set. Quick feet for his size. Good instincts. Another high energy player defensively.
-Good leader. Appears to have plus intangibles.
-Not spectacular at any one thing offensively, but doesn't do anything poorly. No glaring weaknesses on either end.

Question Marks
-No standout offensive skills. Doesn't do anything well enough to be an offensive focal point.
-Streaky shooter off the dribble.
-Not a strong enough ball handler to reliably put pressure on the rim.

9. Mosey Moody, SG, 19 years 5 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Streaky shooter, but very dangerous when he gets hot.
-Showed some potential as an inside-outside scoring threat. Good frame to absorb contact and draw fouls.
-A solid wing defender and has the potential to be more than that.

Question Marks
-A minus right now as a passer/playmaker. He has shown virtually no ability to setup teammates.
-Very reliant on making jumpers. Doesn't have much of a counter or Plan B if his jumper isn't falling.
-Immature game. Appears to lack assertiveness when things aren't going well.

10. Jaden Springer, PG/SG, 19 years 1 month on Opening Night

Positives
-Swarming defender, both individually and as a team defender. Plays with high effort on that end.
-Has shown a lot of tantalizing potential as passer/playmaker and shooter.
-Plays with good strength. Can finish through weaker players and contact.

Question Marks
-Poor first step. Has a hard time getting separation off the dribble.
-Not a great finisher. Doesn't explode well off one foot. Get blocked a lot and takes a lot of pullups to avoid being blocked.
-Not a confident shooter despite the good percentages.

11. Jalen Johnson, PF, 19 years 10 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Ideal physical tools for a wing. He has the size, length and frame you're looking for in a 3/4.
-Really good as a straight line driver with nice drive-and-dish potential. Also showed flashes of being a big-time playmaker on defense.
-Two of the best all-around college games (19 PTS 19 REB 5 AST 4 BLK and 24 PTS 16 REB, 7 AST, 2 STL, 4 BLK) show major upside.

Questions Marks
-Fair or unfair, his reputation as a quitter is going to follow him. Issues in HS. Issues at Duke. Gave up during games at times.
-Made 8-18 threes, but his form and consistency are both very questionable. Did not make FTs at a high level (63%). Can he shoot?
-Not a natural shot creator. Can fancy dribble in space, but not effective in halfcourt off the bounce. Plays more like a big.

12. Josh Giddey, PG, 19 years 0 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Great size. He's a legit 6'8" barefoot and we saw how effective LaMelo was immediately as a tall PG coming out of the same league.
-Genuinely elite PG skills, plus vision and plus passing.
-Intelligent and competitive defender who makes the most of his length to accumulate REB, STL and BLK.

Question Marks
-Not quick and not really athletic.
-Generally an inaccurate shooter with a slow release.
-May have a rough transition to much more physical NBA defenders.

[drsd]

May 26 Big Board

Draft lotto ties have been broken. We now know the Magic's own draft pick will land 1-7 and the Bulls pick if it conveys will land 8-12. So let's bust out a new top 12 big board!

I cannot see a universe where Wagner is drafted above Moody. But I would be very happy with that as it means he has slidden to that 8/9 range the Magic so desperately need.

As an aside, I would say there is a 73.7% chance that 2 of your 12 players will be drafted by Orlando.

Spoiler:

There is a 26.3% chance the Bulls go top-4; otherwise your list has two of the players Orlando chooses from

..

[Knightro]

I cannot see a universe where Wagner is drafted above Moody. But I would be very happy with that as it means he has slidden to that 8/9 range the Magic so desperately need.

As an aside, I would say there is a 73.7% chance that two of your 12 players will be drafted by Orlando.

Picks 6-20 are a real eye of the beholder thing IMO.

You could tell me a guy like Moody will go 6th or 20th and I wouldn't bat an eye. Same with a bunch of other guys.

[drsd]

[6. Scottie Barnes, PF, 20 years 2 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Best defender in the draft. Does *everything* well. Great lateral quickness & recovery speed. Legit All-Defensive Team potential.
-Every intangible you could possibly ask for. Leadership. Energy. Passion. Motor. Competitiveness.
-Not a point guard, but as good of a playmaker as you'll find for a guy that's 6'9" 225. (9.4 AST/100, nearly double Cunningham)

Question Marks
-Deadly combo of poor and unwilling perimeter shooter. Everything about his jumper is off. Bad footwork. Slow hitchy release.
-In addition to being a poor shooter, he's not really a good scorer/slasher either.
-His playmaking could be cancelled out by complete lack of ability to make shots in the halfcourt.

This is Kawhi Leonard out of college. Maybe I can come around to the idea of Barnes.


,,

[drsd]

I cannot see a universe where Wagner is drafted above Moody. But I would be very happy with that as it means he has slidden to that 8/9 range the Magic so desperately need.

As an aside, I would say there is a 73.7% chance that two of your 12 players will be drafted by Orlando.

Picks 6-20 are a real eye of the beholder thing IMO.

You could tell me a guy like Moody will go 6th or 20th and I wouldn't bat an eye. Same with a bunch of other guys.

Moody, Moody, Moody, Moody


..

[KillMonger]

Brothers....watching these scouting videos for the millionth time....it's cade bro.......we need to get this guy.....people whoever you need to pray to do.....do it.....4 leaf clovers.....lucky rabbit's foot.....whatever cliche good luck charm you got....we need it....i mean i would be really happy with Green and happy with Kuminga/Suggs/Mobley(i guess) but it's cade....he fits perfect with us

[Knightro]

Brothers....watching these scouting videos for the millionth time....it's cade bro.......we need to get this guy.....people whoever you need to pray to do.....do it.....4 leaf clovers.....lucky rabbit's foot.....whatever cliche good luck charm you got....we need it....i mean i would be really happy with Green and happy with Kuminga/Suggs/Mobley(i guess) but it's cade....he fits perfect with us

He's certainly the most seamless fit of all the top prospects.

Plug and play him right into the starting small forward slot.

[VFX]

Barnes, J. Johnson, and Kuminga are the biggest boom or bust prospects in this draft imo.

Everything common thought would tell you is to stay the hell away from them with their red flags...

However, I also see a scenario where they could individually become elite players in this league.

This is probably why they are all projected exactly where they are in most mocks.

Cade, Green, and Suggs are at the very least solid starters.

[The Effect]

Barnes, J. Johnson, and Kuminga are the biggest boom or bust prospects in this draft imo.

Everything common thought would tell you is to stay the hell away from them with their red flags...

However, I also see a scenario where they could individually become elite players in this league.

This is probably why they are all projected exactly where they are in most mocks.

Cade, Green, and Suggs are at the very least solid starters.

To me, we are in position where we need stars and with potential 2 top 10 picks, we are in position to take risk and go with the highest risk reward player and i think thats Jalen Johnson. I get it... his floor is that hes out of the league in 3 years with attitude problems, but his ceiling is that he has the skill to be the best player in the draft at a position of great need for us (point forward)

Is it risky, absolutely, but with so much young talent and up coming picks, i feel we are in position to be able to afford to take that chance

Sure there are safer bets, but if we are looking for the guy with the highest chance to become a superstar, i think its him

i think hes this years Michael Porter Jr, not so much in skillset (although similar) but in the risk\reward

[The Effect]

Brothers....watching these scouting videos for the millionth time....it's cade bro.......we need to get this guy.....people whoever you need to pray to do.....do it.....4 leaf clovers.....lucky rabbit's foot.....whatever cliche good luck charm you got....we need it....i mean i would be really happy with Green and happy with Kuminga/Suggs/Mobley(i guess) but it's cade....he fits perfect with us

Sure, i mean this isnt a controversial stance, i think most people feel this way regardless of what team they support, but its really not realistic. If we dont get the first pick, i dont think theres much we can do. say we get 3rd or 4th pick, do you think the team thats gets #1 will be willing to give him up? I cant imagine they would take any trade for him unless it involves both our picks, probably multiple 1st coming up (probably our 1st next year) and a young player

So say we get 3rd, are you doing this?

Out - 3rd pick, 8th pick, 2022 1st, probably a SRP or two and atleast one of Cole,RJ, bamba or okeke?
In - Cade

[Skybox]

[6. Scottie Barnes, PF, 20 years 2 months on Opening Night

Positives
-Best defender in the draft. Does *everything* well. Great lateral quickness & recovery speed. Legit All-Defensive Team potential.
-Every intangible you could possibly ask for. Leadership. Energy. Passion. Motor. Competitiveness.
-Not a point guard, but as good of a playmaker as you'll find for a guy that's 6'9" 225. (9.4 AST/100, nearly double Cunningham)

Question Marks
-Deadly combo of poor and unwilling perimeter shooter. Everything about his jumper is off. Bad footwork. Slow hitchy release.
-In addition to being a poor shooter, he's not really a good scorer/slasher either.
-His playmaking could be cancelled out by complete lack of ability to make shots in the halfcourt.

This is Kawhi Leonard out of college. Maybe I can come around to the idea of Barnes.


,,

him and a lot of guys whose names we can't remember

[tiderulz]

Brothers....watching these scouting videos for the millionth time....it's cade bro.......we need to get this guy.....people whoever you need to pray to do.....do it.....4 leaf clovers.....lucky rabbit's foot.....whatever cliche good luck charm you got....we need it....i mean i would be really happy with Green and happy with Kuminga/Suggs/Mobley(i guess) but it's cade....he fits perfect with us

Sure, i mean this isnt a controversial stance, i think most people feel this way regardless of what team they support, but its really not realistic. If we dont get the first pick, i dont think theres much we can do. say we get 3rd or 4th pick, do you think the team thats gets #1 will be willing to give him up? I cant imagine they would take any trade for him unless it involves both our picks, probably multiple 1st coming up (probably our 1st next year) and a young player

So say we get 3rd, are you doing this?

Out - 3rd pick, 8th pick, 2022 1st, probably a SRP or two and atleast one of Cole,RJ, bamba or okeke?
In - Cade

honestly, i would rather take out the 8th this year and give 1st next year. but only because i believe our pick next year would be in the teens.