2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 2: (7) Orlando Magic at (2) Boston Celtics - 7pm ET

[eyriq]

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22 year olds aren't usually this good. Franz and Paolo are special, one of the best young cores of all time. Over the next two off-seasons we've just got to handle this transition into contention right.

The hard part is done, though. Which is why I don't get the moaning and groaning. Weltman drafted TWO franchise players and TWO quality starters/third option talents. Those four players alone account for 80% of the team building requirements.

Building around Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB now begins in earnest. We need two more quality starters and a sixth man and we've got more than enough resources to acquire them. Full MLE and two trades and we are there. It'll probably take two off-seasons to fully complete the build and that's ok.

[Skin]

Anthony Black played 23 minutes and didn't record a single assist or three.

Meanwhile, he didn't slow down any of Boston's guards. What is he out there for again?

"Bbbbut he's getting solid playoff experience!"

He's a joke. Been that since Day 1.

[basketballRob]

Anthony Black played 23 minutes and didn't record a single assist or three.

Meanwhile, he didn't slow down any of Boston's guards. What is he out there for again?

"Bbbbut he's getting solid playoff experience!"

He's a joke. Been that since Day 1.

Black wasn't the player giving up the points. He's upset because Cole didn't get very many minutes. Cole may not get any more minutes in the series. The Celtics guards are too physical. Black is the only guard not getting bullied.

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[Bensational]

Anthony Black played 23 minutes and didn't record a single assist or three.

Meanwhile, he didn't slow down any of Boston's guards. What is he out there for again?

"Bbbbut he's getting solid playoff experience!"

You butthurt that Cole is so bad Mosley benched him in the 2nd?

AB was the 4th best Magic player on the court tonight.

[Bensational]

I missed the post game presser. Anyone see it and was there anything noteworthy from it?

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Asked about how he can help KCP, Mosley blinked. Had no idea and no care that KCP was 0-6 from 3.

Asked why Goga can’t get more minutes, he answered like a politician. “I thought he gave us 8 straight good minutes….”. Dodged the question.

Was holding his tongue on the FTs. Talked so far around it he barely eluded to it. No fight in this bloke.

[thelead]

Read on Twitter

22 year olds aren't usually this good. Franz and Paolo are special, one of the best young cores of all time. Over the next two off-seasons we've just got to handle this transition into contention right.

The hard part is done, though. Which is why I don't get the moaning and groaning. Weltman drafted TWO franchise players and TWO quality starters/third option talents. Those four players alone account for 80% of the team building requirements.

Building around Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB now begins in earnest. We need two more quality starters and a sixth man and we've got more than enough resources to acquire them. Full MLE and two trades and we are there. It'll probably take two off-seasons to fully complete the build and that's ok.

If this was baseball, you'd be correct but there is a cap in the NBA and the apron rules prohibit moves once your stars are making max money. See Giannis' and Jokic's situations. We are approaching that FAST and there is not much time left to get this right. And it's not like we should trust him to draft well outside of the lotto to build the roster with cheap contracts like OKC has. Not sure why you trust Weltman with what we have seen from him from day 1. He moves soooooo slow (see AG needing to demand a trade before breaking up that mediocre core). I also have no faith in Martins either. He reminds me of Nico Harrison with that smug smile. Yuck.

[Husky1]

Add KCP to another contract Weltman needs to add a pick to get off his contract. What a GM

[KillMonger]

Without Suggs and Moe we're missing about.....30ppg/10reb/5ast.....production that wasn't replaced

[pepe1991]

Without Suggs and Moe we're missing about.....30ppg/10reb/5ast.....production that wasn't replaced

You really gonna go with "injury " excuse in a game where best player in the series, and top 5 player in nba didn't play for your opponent?

Celtics just missed 6 times all star, best player, one of best players in the world and his 27 ppg, 9 rpg, 6 apg on 59% TS.

[KillMonger]

Without Suggs and Moe we're missing about.....30ppg/10reb/5ast.....production that wasn't replaced

You really gonna go with "injury " excuse in a game where best player in the series, and top 5 player in nba didn't play for your opponent?

Celtics just missed 6 times all star, best player, one of best players in the world and his 27 ppg, 9 rpg, 6 apg on 59% TS.

i'm talking more about the season to clarify, the celtics doesn't matter in this respect because had they've been replaced or tried to it's a good chance we wouldn't have been 7th seed

[cedric76]

Summer list

Get suggs + Moe 100% healthy
Trade Cole +FRP for sexton
Get offensive minded assistant coach

[thelead]

On a positive note, this is one of his prettiest plays ever:

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[pepe1991]

God damn it, midway through editing comment i deleted it.


Anyway, to go fast through, i elected to not read comments from social media & forums and focus on a game.

Celtics were missing top 5 player in the world today and their best player.


Yet game was still played like game 1.

All teams around the globe, that have hired coach, who coaches for as little as free beer, start first quarters to engage whole team in offense.
Magic start 1st quarter with Paolo and Franz taking 12/21 shots.
By the end of first quarter Magic have 6 three point attempts distributed among 3 players: Franz, Paolo and Joseph.
But Magic already took 7 mid range shots (made 4)

Celtics are stone cold, yet won quarter with only Brown being capable of putting ball through hoop.
You are losing quarter where your opponent shoots 5-20 FG.
5 different Celtics players took 3s.
Celtics took 3 shots that could fall into "mid range " category, made non.


Second quarter

1-6 for 3.
5 mid range shots ( 2-5)
Celtics 1-7 for 3.
Only 3 Magic players put ball through hoop whole quarter ( Carter, Banchero , Franz)
Celtics:
5 mid range shots (3-5)
5 different Celtics players score


Third quarter
1-7 for 3
7 mid range shots (4-7)

Celtics 5-12 for 3
1 mid range shot

4th quarter

3-6 for 3
6 mid range shots (3-6)

Celtics 3-8 for 3
2-4 from mid range


Sum up:

Basically you lose game by numbers.
Magic shot 14-26 from mid range (54% FG) = 1,04 ppp and in their mind that's amazing.
However, they shot 0,72 ppp for 3.

Celtics shot equally 1,07 ppp from mid range (7-13)
but they shot 12-37 / 0,98 ppp for 3.

Overall Magic on jump shots end up with 0,89 PPP
Celtics on jump shot ends with 1,00 PPP

Celtic don't care we take and make 2s. We feel good taking and making 2s. Our decision to not shoot many 3s in favor of long 2s over span of a game swings game in their favor no matter what.
They can shoot 34% for 3, we can shoot 50% from mid range and they still simply add more points on board.

Franz and Paolo aren't playmakers. Playmakers are game manipulators who get others involved and control defense. Paolo and Franz take what defense gives them. And they play right into this. They "get free" from mid range because Celtics refuse to actually defend them there.
Paolo took 9 mid range shots himself.
Franz 7.
Celtics 13 as a team.

Casual fans will be so outraged about "supporting cast" once they bounce us in 4-5 games. In reality everything bad about offense starts with Franz and Paolo . It's not really only their fault, there is no PG on roster, coach can't coach for s***, but this is a series where your two stars look great as they shoot near 60% of all shots, average 30 points each and you are losing by 15 with min left without best opposing player playing.

Basketball is team sport. You need to have offense that involves others. You need to have treats. You need to involve others.
You will never be serious basketball team with deep playoff runs with 30 mid range shots a game. Basketball left that shot behind 30 years ago, nba 10 years ago. Over 100 possessions shooting 35% for 3 = 105 points, 45% from mid range = 90 points. Basically you shoot better and lose 15 points.

It's borderline insanity that we are in 2025 and i talk why mid range shooting vs 3 point shooting is losing basketball concept.

[SOUL]

It's borderline insanity that we are in 2025 and i talk why mid range shooting vs 3 point shooting is losing basketball concept.

Most Magic fans say we take too many threes for how bad of a shooting team we are and laugh at the "by committee" stuff and want Franz/Paolo to do most of it. I disagree with that notion but it's just funny to see how most people want this but then say the offense isn't great.

On the flip side, it's also just the realistic ceilings/play of our players right now. Harden/Kawhi run a TON of isos and shoot a bunch of middies-floaters, but they also shoot a lot of threes and average 35-40% there to offset it.

Also, a lot of the offensive talent is so streaky/bad that it's hard for any of them to even justify like 12-13 attempts regularly unless your name was Moe Wagner or Suggs.

Idealistic version of this team? Yes. It's easy to do that when you have Holiday, White, Pritchard, Porzingis, etc.. harder when it's a bunch of guys that you couldn't trust to give you 10 points versus the Wizards.

[drsd]

My keys to winning games against Boston is to win the TO and FTM battles.
Orlando was much better on TOs. But both the FTA differential and the poor FT% for Orlando is troubling.

That said:

Dunces for the game
KCP (-8.0)
Caleb (-2.5)
Cole (-1.8)

Vests for Boston
Brown (+9.3)
White (+2.3)
Pritchard (+2.3)

Playoff KCP

If Caldwell-Pope only goes 4-9 in this game, the game goes to overtime.

The Magics defense has been excellent; it's offense has failed.

[jezzerinho]

God damn it, midway through editing comment i deleted it.


Anyway, to go fast through, i elected to not read comments from social media & forums and focus on a game.

Celtics were missing top 5 player in the world today and their best player.


Yet game was still played like game 1.

All teams around the globe, that have hired coach, who coaches for as little as free beer, start first quarters to engage whole team in offense.
Magic start 1st quarter with Paolo and Franz taking 12/21 shots.
By the end of first quarter Magic have 6 three point attempts distributed among 3 players: Franz, Paolo and Joseph.
But Magic already took 7 mid range shots (made 4)

Celtics are stone cold, yet won quarter with only Brown being capable of putting ball through hoop.
You are losing quarter where your opponent shoots 5-20 FG.
5 different Celtics players took 3s.
Celtics took 3 shots that could fall into "mid range " category, made non.


Second quarter

1-6 for 3.
5 mid range shots ( 2-5)
Celtics 1-7 for 3.
Only 3 Magic players put ball through hoop whole quarter ( Carter, Banchero , Franz)
Celtics:
5 mid range shots (3-5)
5 different Celtics players score


Third quarter
1-7 for 3
7 mid range shots (4-7)

Celtics 5-12 for 3
1 mid range shot

4th quarter

3-6 for 3
6 mid range shots (3-6)

Celtics 3-8 for 3
2-4 from mid range


Sum up:

Basically you lose game by numbers.
Magic shot 14-26 from mid range (54% FG) = 1,04 ppp and in their mind that's amazing.
However, they shot 0,72 ppp for 3.

Celtics shot equally 1,07 ppp from mid range (7-13)
but they shot 12-37 / 0,98 ppp for 3.

Overall Magic on jump shots end up with 0,89 PPP
Celtics on jump shot ends with 1,21 PPP

Celtic don't care we take and make 2s. We feel good taking and making 2s. Our decision to not shoot many 3s in favor of long 2s over span of a game swings game in their favor no matter what.
They can shoot 34% for 3, we can shoot 50% from mid range and they still simply add more points on board.

Franz and Paolo aren't playmakers. Playmakers are game manipulators who get others involved and control defense. Paolo and Franz take what defense gives them. And they play right into this. They "get free" from mid range because Celtics refuse to actually defend them there.
Paolo took 9 mid range shots himself.
Franz 7.
Celtics 13 as a team.

Casual fans will be so outraged about "supporting cast" once they bounce us in 4-5 games. In reality everything bad about offense starts with Franz and Paolo . It's not really only their fault, there is no PG on roster, coach can't coach for s***, but this is a series where your two stars look great as they shoot near 60% of all shots, average 30 points each and you are losing by 15 with min left without best opposing player playing.

Basketball is team sport. You need to have offense that involves others. You need to have treats. You need to involve others.
You will never be serious basketball team with deep playoff runs with 30 mid range shots a game. Basketball left that shot behind 30 years ago, nba 10 years ago. Over 100 possessions shooting 35% for 3 = 105 points, 45% from mid range = 90 points. Basically you shoot better and lose 15 points.

It's borderline insanity that we are in 2025 and i talk why mid range shooting vs 3 point shooting is losing basketball concept.

+1000000

Smart teams (even ones missing their best player) just toy with us. Cs just waited to get a favourable switch - Porz gets a guard on him and he drives for an easy 2 or finds a shooter as we collapse. Brown gets a big and he spins off him to finish or hit another shooter. It's not even complicated, but the whole team sees what's happening and positions themselves accordingly. They set really tight screens that help get them those favourable switches, and the whole roster knows what to do to profit.

Orlando just runs 20 DHOs to end up with a contested midrange deep in the clock. And we call that an offensive system in Central Fl. Credit to our star guys for being able to hit them, but it's losing basketball.

I'll allow for the fact our roster is a mess and our FA signing a huge failure But any offensive system that works in harmony to create a clear advantage for any given player on the team to try to convert is always going to be better than a system that asks only 40% of the team make chicken salad out of chicken shït.

Secondly, I know Florida is a retirement haven, but does it have to be where 3-pt shooting comes to die as well?

In short, there is a huge coaching problem here. I'm not fixated on Mose being fired, but the buck stops with him and he needs to overhaul his coaching team stat or he should just go.

Would someone like Gordie Herbert come and be offensive coach for Orlando? Or look for the next Jordi Fernandez.. someone who understands structured basketball offense.

This cràp is hard to watch frankly.

[drsd]

Box score thoughts:

Orlando lost the FG% battle and lost the game.

Which is sad, becasue Orlando not only "held" the Celts to "only" 37 3PTAs, but the 3PT% for Boston kept very low.

The Celts, and not the Magic, manufactured a lot of points as the FT line and FT-differential was -10 for Orlando (i.e. the game!).

Orlando (again) got smoked on rebounding differential (-12).

What-ifs: if the Magic had gone 18-24 from the charity stripe (75%), then Orlando ties it up if the three-ball went in at only a 31% rate (9/29).
Offensive ineptitude is what the box-score screams.

[drsd]

I know Florida is a retirement haven, but does it have to be where 3-pt shooting comes to die as well?

Which is sad-funny, as the consecutive three-pointer record (college line) is by a 60 year old!

Watch on YouTube

[SOUL]

Smart teams (even ones missing their best player) just toy with us. Cs just waited to get a favourable switch - Porz gets a guard on him and he drives for an easy 2 or finds a shooter as we collapse. Brown gets a big and he spins off him to finish or hit another shooter. It's not even complicated, but the whole team sees what's happening and positions themselves accordingly.

Orlando just runs 20 DHOs to end up with a contested midrange deep in the clock. And we call that an offensive system in Central Fl. Credit to our star guys for being able to hit them, but it's losing basketball.

I'll allow for the fact our roster is a mess and our FA signing a huge failure But any offensive system that works in harmony to create a clear advantage for any given player on the team to try to convert is always going to be better than a system that asks only 40% of the team make chicken salad out of chicken shït.

Secondly, I know Florida is a retirement haven, but does it have to be where 3-pt shooting comes to die as well?

In short, there is a huge coaching problem here. I'm not fixated on Mose being fired, but the buck stops with him and he needs to overhaul his coaching team stat or he should just go.

Would someone like Gordie Herbert come and be offensive coach for Orlando? Or look for the next Jordi Fernandez.. someone who understands structured basketball offense.

This cràp is hard to watch frankly.

I mean part of it can be better sets but lol if we're also going to disregard the absolute gulf of offensive talent on both of those teams, no coach is going to ever fix that. The only other players to average 10 or more points besides Franz/Paolo are out for the year. Miami is going through the same thing with the Cavs, Memphis with OKC, etc. And even THOSE teams have more offensive talent than us.

The beginning of the third, our biggest lull in this game, Brown hit two contested threes and then White hit a contested three. We had KCP miss an open three, Cory Joseph miss an open three, Paolo miss an open three, then Franz miss an open three.

Had nothing to do with middies or schemes, just straight up shot making versus shot missing.

Sometimes it's not convoluted at all. We got better shot selections to start the 3rd and immediately gave up a 9-2 run with better shot quality (even if it's by virtue of teams sagging off.)

[jezzerinho]

Smart teams (even ones missing their best player) just toy with us. Cs just waited to get a favourable switch - Porz gets a guard on him and he drives for an easy 2 or finds a shooter as we collapse. Brown gets a big and he spins off him to finish or hit another shooter. It's not even complicated, but the whole team sees what's happening and positions themselves accordingly.

Orlando just runs 20 DHOs to end up with a contested midrange deep in the clock. And we call that an offensive system in Central Fl. Credit to our star guys for being able to hit them, but it's losing basketball.

I'll allow for the fact our roster is a mess and our FA signing a huge failure But any offensive system that works in harmony to create a clear advantage for any given player on the team to try to convert is always going to be better than a system that asks only 40% of the team make chicken salad out of chicken shït.

Secondly, I know Florida is a retirement haven, but does it have to be where 3-pt shooting comes to die as well?

In short, there is a huge coaching problem here. I'm not fixated on Mose being fired, but the buck stops with him and he needs to overhaul his coaching team stat or he should just go.

Would someone like Gordie Herbert come and be offensive coach for Orlando? Or look for the next Jordi Fernandez.. someone who understands structured basketball offense.

This cràp is hard to watch frankly.

I mean part of it can be better sets but lol if we're also going to disregard the absolute gulf of offensive talent on both of those teams, no coach is going to ever fix that. The only other players to average 10 or more points besides Franz/Paolo are out for the year. Miami is going through the same thing with the Cavs, Memphis with OKC, etc. And even THOSE teams have more offensive talent than us.

The beginning of the third, our biggest lull in this game, Brown hit two contested threes and then White hit a contested three. We had KCP miss an open three, Cory Joseph miss an open three, Paolo miss an open three, then Franz miss an open three.

Had nothing to do with middies or schemes, just straight up shot making versus shot missing.

Sometimes it's not convoluted at all. We got better shot selections to start the 3rd and immediately gave up a 9-2 run with better shot quality (even if it's by virtue of teams sagging off.)

I think we're both agreeing, because - as I was trying to say - it's a mix of low efficiency offense and all players in Orlando struggling to shoot even league average 3pt numbers. Former good shooters like Harris and KCP are stone cold. This is partly because they're often bystanders on the court and partly shooting coaching has failed to develop a single consistent sniper in Orlando for years.