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Official 2025 Offseason Thread

Moderators: UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior

Does the FO add a legitimate starting (scoring) guard to the roster this summer?

Yes
59
61%
No
38
39%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#761 » by Skybox » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:14 am

eyriq wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:
You’re in. The three of us in this express train to hell together.

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I'm the guy who went on the WAS boards to congratulate them and confidently predict that Poole unchained would likely lead the league in scoring :banghead: then he absolutely s**t the bed in WAS for most of the first year...I don't know why, but he was putting up like 5 pt games routinely :crazy:

In my defense, I never said he'd be super efficient or lead them to a lot of wins (in their tank state) but I always believed that he could get buckets all day on any team and that, on a good defensive team that's starved for scoring, he could look like an All-Star (in the East).
Your evaluation of Poole at that time was terrible. He proceeded to tank his value and became a buy-low candidate.


It's the same guy...and my evaluation was BEFORE he had his year of suck...now he's all rainbows again and I'm still catching ish?

ORL sends: AB...
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#762 » by thelead » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:33 am

I HATE the idea of Poole but would take a flyer on him if he is being given away. Would I trade any actual positive-value assets for him? Hell no.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#763 » by Kent » Sun Jun 1, 2025 3:31 am

Have things gotten so bad that we're thinking about going after Jordan Poole? :lol:
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#764 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Jun 1, 2025 3:35 am

Want nothing to do with $30+ mil per low BBIQ Poole. Sure, he has stats on a losing team but he is not that good. Would rather keep KCP on his cheaper contract.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#765 » by Driguez » Sun Jun 1, 2025 4:28 am

Please God no Jordan Poole either lol
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#766 » by cedric76 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 6:01 am

How can you complain about Jeff all the time and asking for him to be fired when you propose such a bad moves?
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, Jett
Franz, TDS,
P5, JI, Panda
Wcj, Goga, Moe
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#767 » by VFX » Sun Jun 1, 2025 12:22 pm

I think people are missing the point on Poole.

Do I think he’s a smart player? No.
Is his contract absurd? Yes.

Would I rather have him run point for 1 season if it means getting off KCP and Cole’s money? Yes.

Neither of those players do anything for Orlando right now. Jordan Poole can actually move an offense enough to get Franz and Paolo better looks at the basket. He’s also only 25 years old still.

Do I think it’s the best possible ideal scenario? Not really, but that’s where Weltman has left the options to balance the cap sheet and improve the team at face value.

I don’t think Poole requires the 16th or 25th picks either. Washington has a bunch of younger guards they’d rather play.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#768 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 12:38 pm

VFX wrote:I think people are missing the point on Poole.

Do I think he’s a smart player? No.
Is his contract absurd? Yes.

Would I rather have him run point for 1 season if it means getting off KCP and Cole’s money? Yes.

Neither of those players do anything for Orlando right now. Jordan Poole can actually move an offense enough to get Franz and Paolo better looks at the basket. He’s also only 25 years old still.

Do I think it’s the best possible ideal scenario? Not really, but that’s where Weltman has left the options to balance the cap sheet and improve the team at face value.

I don’t think Poole requires the 16th or 25th picks either. Washington has a bunch of younger guards they’d rather play.

He's got 2 more seasons on his contract. Same as KCP and Cole has a team option on that last year.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#769 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 12:46 pm

Poole talk is ridiculous. He doesn’t make your team better. He’s making 30+ million a year. You don’t throw your assets at that.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#770 » by VFX » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:23 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
VFX wrote:I think people are missing the point on Poole.

Do I think he’s a smart player? No.
Is his contract absurd? Yes.

Would I rather have him run point for 1 season if it means getting off KCP and Cole’s money? Yes.

Neither of those players do anything for Orlando right now. Jordan Poole can actually move an offense enough to get Franz and Paolo better looks at the basket. He’s also only 25 years old still.

Do I think it’s the best possible ideal scenario? Not really, but that’s where Weltman has left the options to balance the cap sheet and improve the team at face value.

I don’t think Poole requires the 16th or 25th picks either. Washington has a bunch of younger guards they’d rather play.

He's got 2 more seasons on his contract. Same as KCP and Cole has a team option on that last year.


Yeah it’s called consolidating contracts and addressing team needs.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#771 » by VFX » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:24 pm

89Magicfan wrote:Poole talk is ridiculous. He doesn’t make your team better. He’s making 30+ million a year. You don’t throw your assets at that.


KCP and Cole Anthony are not positive assets. Nobody in this trade is a positive asset.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#772 » by Knightro » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:26 pm

Taking salary out of the equation for a second…

What makes the Magic better on the basketball court the next two years?

Cole and KCP

Or

Poole and NAW

I think that’s the question to answer.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#773 » by Skybox » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:41 pm

Poole is also intriguing (not my #1) because, theoretically, we keep the picks…there are some high-upside swings as well as solid bets for rotation players in the second half of the first round…I’d like to try for one of each flavor.

Could also use a pick(s) for an additional move. People in the general board talking about BOTH frps for expiring Sexton, Coby, or Simons are :crazy:

Poole is a bet, but you can certainly make a case for it. Stats can certainly be inflated on bad teams but that doesn’t mean that PROVEN 20+ ppg 3-level scoring guys are easy to find.

If we came out of summer, following Knightro’s lead with Poole, NAW, Coward & Raynaud (for example) and still had next years pick :o
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#774 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:52 pm

VFX wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:Poole talk is ridiculous. He doesn’t make your team better. He’s making 30+ million a year. You don’t throw your assets at that.


KCP and Cole Anthony are not positive assets. Nobody in this trade is a positive asset.


The whole point of making a trade is to obtain a positive asset. What you just described is called a lateral move.

You see his scoring and 3pt shot and think we could use that, doesn’t cost us a ton (will deplete us of assets which can be used a filler etc) and keep most of our core. I get it but you’re taking about a player who’s contributed to wins in a small body of work. Everything else is mediocre or less than satisfactory results. He’s the shooting version of RJ Hampton. Wows you with his outside shot, long distance pull ups (like RJ’s athleticism) but everything else is just like damn tf was that?

We would be getting him hoping we make him better not him making us better.

We need someone we know makes us better. Our offensive problems which have been well discussed a million times over aren’t just shooting and spacing. Paolo/Franz needs someone who can help them as well with the playmaking. Setting the tone. Setting the table. Calling the right plays see the floor,, the pace, the game in a way that Poole can’t fathom.

Poole as a backup at half the cost he’s at now, with our team already set, great. Bring him in and let him mesh but to bring him right now at his cost with our offensive problems, he’ll just inflame it.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#775 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:54 pm

Knightro wrote:Taking salary out of the equation for a second…

What makes the Magic better on the basketball court the next two years?

Cole and KCP

Or

Poole and NAW

I think that’s the question to
answer.



I don’t think either. I do like NAW but I just don’t see any of these options making us jump to be a contender anymore than we are now.

Lateral move.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#776 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 1:56 pm

Skybox wrote:Poole is also intriguing (not my #1) because, theoretically, we keep the picks…there are some high-upside swings as well as solid bets for rotation players in the second half of the first round…I’d like to try for one of each flavor.

Could also use a pick(s) for an additional move. People in the general board talking about BOTH frps for expiring Sexton, Coby, or Simons are :crazy:

Poole is a bet, but you can certainly make a case for it. Stats can certainly be inflated on bad teams but that doesn’t mean that PROVEN 20+ ppg 3-level scoring guys are easy to find.

If we came out of summer, following Knightro’s lead with Poole, NAW, Coward & Raynaud (for example) and still had next years pick :o



Years of Weltman has you thinking just like he would man lol. Go back to the skybox we all know and love pushing out of the box ideas.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#777 » by cedric76 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:00 pm

Knightro wrote:Taking salary out of the equation for a second…

What makes the Magic better on the basketball court the next two years?

Cole and KCP

Or

Poole and NAW

I think that’s the question to answer.


If we ignore the new CBA, what is better

Cole and kcp

Or

Trae + Giannis?
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, Jett
Franz, TDS,
P5, JI, Panda
Wcj, Goga, Moe
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#778 » by Skybox » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:06 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
VFX wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:Poole talk is ridiculous. He doesn’t make your team better. He’s making 30+ million a year. You don’t throw your assets at that.


KCP and Cole Anthony are not positive assets. Nobody in this trade is a positive asset.


The whole point of making a trade is to obtain a positive asset. What you just described is called a lateral move.




If you’re determined to “win a trade” - good luck, especially with what you agree are assets that, in most trades we discuss, clearly require draft equity just to unload. A lateral value move for fit is PRECISELY what “defense for offense” means.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#779 » by VFX » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:08 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
VFX wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:Poole talk is ridiculous. He doesn’t make your team better. He’s making 30+ million a year. You don’t throw your assets at that.


KCP and Cole Anthony are not positive assets. Nobody in this trade is a positive asset.


The whole point of making a trade is to obtain a positive asset. What you just described is called a lateral move.

You see his scoring and 3pt shot and think we could use that, doesn’t cost us a ton (will deplete us of assets which can be used a filler etc) and keep most of our core. I get it but you’re taking about a player who’s contributed to wins in a small body of work. Everything else is mediocre less than satisfactory results. He’s the shooting version of RJ Hampton. Wows you with his outside shot, long distance pull ups (like RJ’s athleticism) but everything else is just like damn tf was that?

We would be getting him hoping we make him better not him making us better.

We need someone we know makes us better. Our offensive problems which have been well discussed a million times over aren’t just shooting and spacing. Paolo/Franz needs someone who can help them as well with the playmaking. Setting the tone. Setting the table. Calling the right plays see the floor,, the pace, the game in a way that Poole can’t fathom.

Poole as a backup at half the cost he’s at now, with our team already set, great. Bring him in and let him mesh but to bring him right now at his cost with our offensive problems, he’ll just inflame it.


I don’t disagree with a lot of this.

The choice Orlando has right now is one of three options. Two are real options:

Option 1. Spend draft picks + players for an upgrade in the back court (Simons, Sexton, Monk, and a reach in Reaves or C.White).

This option is appealing because these players address needs and lands a positive asset. However, moving draft picks limits other moves Orlando can make. They aren’t 1 total move or player away from completing moves this offseason. Thats because Weltman didn’t make moves for 4 seasons. This option also makes it more difficult to address other needs on the roster because you are limiting your asset pool to acquire said players. This becomes easier spent on the lesser talent. Sexton probably lands in option 1.5 - the others not so much. The other issue is that you have to pay these guys after you acquire them. The money is going up, not down, for most of them.

Option 2. Move pieces for a lateral trade that consolidates assets while keeping flexibility for other roster decisions. This is like the Poole deal.

This isn’t appealing at face value because everyone wants big name players that have a draw. Poole isn’t as appealing as the other names because of his contract. What makes this deal appealing is that Weltman can use all the other assets at his disposal to upgrade the rest of the roster. Cole Anthony, KCP, Jon Isaac, and Goga are not positive assets that net you upgrades across the rest of the roster. Keeping 16 + 25 gives Orlando either two rookie scale contributors as insurance to move these players OR fodder to upgrade other spots. Orlando can also add a player like NAW using the MLE. Pooles money is going down, not up, if his deal is renegotiated.

Option 3: Do nothing
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#780 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:11 pm

Skybox wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:
VFX wrote:
KCP and Cole Anthony are not positive assets. Nobody in this trade is a positive asset.


The whole point of making a trade is to obtain a positive asset. What you just described is called a lateral move.




If you’re determined to “win a trade” - good luck, especially with what you agree are assets that, in most trades we discuss, clearly require draft equity just to unload. A lateral value move for fit is PRECISELY what “defense for offense” means.



I have no attachment to the draft picks. They to me are more valuable as a trade asset.


I don’t believe we need luck. I believe Weltman needs to just pull his head out of his own ass and see the glaring issue (sounds like he has) and make a trade to right it like many other GM’s instead of kicking the can down the road.

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