2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 2: (7) Orlando Magic at (2) Boston Celtics - 7pm ET

[pepe1991]

It's borderline insanity that we are in 2025 and i talk why mid range shooting vs 3 point shooting is losing basketball concept.

Most Magic fans say we take too many threes for how bad of a shooting team we are and laugh at the "by committee" stuff and want Franz/Paolo to do most of it. I disagree with that notion but it's just funny to see how most people want this but then say the offense isn't great.

On the flip side, it's also just the realistic ceilings/play of our players right now. Harden/Kawhi run a TON of isos and shoot a bunch of middies-floaters, but they also shoot a lot of threes and average 35-40% there to offset it.

Also, a lot of the offensive talent is so streaky/bad that it's hard for any of them to even justify like 12-13 attempts regularly unless your name was Moe Wagner or Suggs.

Idealistic version of this team? Yes. It's easy to do that when you have Holiday, White, Pritchard, Porzingis, etc.. harder when it's a bunch of guys that you couldn't trust to give you 10 points versus the Wizards.

Most Magic fans, like most fans of other teams/sports, don't really understand sport from "ball through hoop = 2 points sometimes 3 " concept.
Yesterday i went on reddit and my God, that place gets more delusional with every hour, no matter what team you click on.

Basketball changed into 3 point era. We can have personal opinions do we like it or not, i'm not biggest fan, but it is what it is.

After 1st games of 1st rounds:
League's average: three point shot 12 FGM/ 34 FGA / 35,3% accuracy
56% TS, 52,7% eFG , 104,6 ppg, 21,7 apg

Magic three point : 8,5 FGM ( second lowest behind Memphis) / 28 FGA (lowest), 30,4% accuracy (3rd lowest, within 0,4% of second worst)
51,1% TS ( 3rd lowest) , 50% eFG (4th lowest) , 93 ppg ( second lowest) , 17,5 apg ( tied with second lowest)

Clippers are very efficient offense in playoffs (4th best in eFG & TS, 37% for 3 ) because aside from Harden/Kawhi, they still generate offense for others. Zubac has 18,5 ppg on 64% TS, Powell struggles, but gets 12,5 ppg, Batum & Dunn give them 7,5 ppg each.

Our 3rd scorer averages 10 ppg, but once again, we go back to not even being in position where they can score.

Carter 7 FGA
KCP 7 FGA
Black 6 FGA

It is hard to score where you are both: bad self creator and nobody looks to find you.

If i'm going with Clippers comparison :
Powell 13 FGA
Zubac 12,5 FGA
Dunn 7,5 FGA
Batum 5,5 FGA

it's not like Zubac is self creator, Dunn is anti- self creator, Batum is stand still shooter at this point of career. But mainly Harden is looking after them and they have system that gets looks for everybody, despite fact both Harden and Kawhi sometimes have tunnel vision (especially Kawhi ).

harder when it's a bunch of guys that you couldn't trust to give you 10 points versus the Wizards

Yea, but this is Weltman's roster and vision. Simply overvalued defense at massive expense of offense. Than you go to playoffs against elite offense that moves ball at exponentially high level. And your defense goes to s*** (120,5 def rating, 3rd worst) and you still have no offense to compensate.
Most hilarious part is that we still make 2FGA at unrealistic level to be sustainable, so offense looks better than it is

[Furinkazan]

all that championship experience and 3 point shooting KC Poope brings really makes the difference
good job Jeff this was the big signing I was waiting for years

[pepe1991]

btw shut out to our $25M man. After saving him for playoffs for whole season, we discover he is unplayable against 40 years old Horford.

For "play Goga more" crew, guy spent 7 and half min on the court and had 4 fouls. It's almost like hand-grabbing isn't best defensive strategy against refs that pay close attention to it
?
Not to mention all the new salsa moves he showcased on perimeter when Celtics went at him in high P& R.




Going too big vs Celtics is suicidal, they move ball around perimeter to get open shooters that your bigs are in wild goose chase and after all forget to box out for rebounds so you don't even have those benefits. Also they can't be that active on offensive glass because Celtics can run transition with 3 guards. It's lose -lose.
And also our "bigs" are still nowhere near as tall as Porzingis.

[Skybox]

Fans around RealGM still think Goga has trade value...quick, trade him

WCJ was in there, fighting like a dog - Kudos, but he really seemed overmatched and undersized. I know KP is well over 7' but I really think we need a bigger starting C. WCJ is really good when he's really good, but I'd rather have him off the bench. He could probably take Horford's title of "best bench big" (or is it Moe?). My least favorite thing to see is WCJ's pump fake at the 3pt line - he passes up good open 3's from anywhere but the corner...he shot very quickly and confidently from there. Most of his spot ups are up top and he just won't take them...a couple more per game would really make a difference. He put up some points last night, but that could have been the 20pt performance we haven't seen from anybody but Paolo & Franz (more than a handful of times this season)...Suggs can, on occasion, put up 20. Moe is a good offensive player, but it's not like he's even a starter or routinely putting up big points. When Black has done it - there's a parade here. I don't if KCP has done it once-he's really pissed me off with his lack of offensive impact (which IS his history and shouldn't surprise anyone-especially an NBA veteran GM). Cole does it twice a year. It's just not sustainable to have these ridiculous box scores where only 2 guys put up points.

[basketballRob]

Cole just can't play against every team. If we played NY, Detroit, or Indiana, he'd probably be 3rd on the team in scoring.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

Cole just can't play against every team. If we played NY, Detroit, or Indiana, he'd probably be 3rd on the team in scoring.

I emphatically support trading Anthony to the Knicks, the Pistons or the Pacers. All three would be good for him, and all three have an asset that Orlando could rather want.

[byeganyo]

Read on Twitter

22 year olds aren't usually this good. Franz and Paolo are special, one of the best young cores of all time. Over the next two off-seasons we've just got to handle this transition into contention right.

The hard part is done, though. Which is why I don't get the moaning and groaning. Weltman drafted TWO franchise players and TWO quality starters/third option talents. Those four players alone account for 80% of the team building requirements.

Building around Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB now begins in earnest. We need two more quality starters and a sixth man and we've got more than enough resources to acquire them. Full MLE and two trades and we are there. It'll probably take two off-seasons to fully complete the build and that's ok.

When will this broken record thing stop? "one of the best young cores of all time" - Franz is 24, he is good, but one of the best of all times he is not.

I mean you are really going to die on this hill, right? Weltman has done excellent job and blah blah. Reality doesnt change your opinion even the slightest..

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

22 year olds aren't usually this good. Franz and Paolo are special, one of the best young cores of all time. Over the next two off-seasons we've just got to handle this transition into contention right.

The hard part is done, though. Which is why I don't get the moaning and groaning. Weltman drafted TWO franchise players and TWO quality starters/third option talents. Those four players alone account for 80% of the team building requirements.

Building around Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB now begins in earnest. We need two more quality starters and a sixth man and we've got more than enough resources to acquire them. Full MLE and two trades and we are there. It'll probably take two off-seasons to fully complete the build and that's ok.

When will this broken record thing stop? "one of the best young cores of all time" - Franz is 24, he is good, but one of the best of all times he is not.

I mean you are really going to die on this hill, right? Weltman has done excellent job and blah blah. Reality doesnt change your opinion even the slightest..

It's coping mechanism. Over past 5 games in playoffs, Magic lost 4.

9 points loss vs Celtics
17 points loss vs Celtics
12 points loss vs Cavs
7 points win vs Cavs
1 points loss vs Cavs


"Best young core ever" won 3 playoff games out of 9 they played.
Tatum alone:
age 19- ECF - second leading scorer
age 20- second round loss second leading scorer
age 21- ECF -leading scorer
age 22- first round exit, leading scorer
age 23- nba finals- leading scorer

By Franz's age Tatum won what? 9 playoff series ?

Talking about "elite young core" while existing in same universe with OKC is hilarious. They won 68 games with oldest starter being 26.

[Redwood]

Read on Twitter

22 year olds aren't usually this good. Franz and Paolo are special, one of the best young cores of all time. Over the next two off-seasons we've just got to handle this transition into contention right.

The hard part is done, though. Which is why I don't get the moaning and groaning. Weltman drafted TWO franchise players and TWO quality starters/third option talents. Those four players alone account for 80% of the team building requirements.

Building around Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and AB now begins in earnest. We need two more quality starters and a sixth man and we've got more than enough resources to acquire them. Full MLE and two trades and we are there. It'll probably take two off-seasons to fully complete the build and that's ok.

When will this broken record thing stop? "one of the best young cores of all time" - Franz is 24, he is good, but one of the best of all times he is not.

I mean you are really going to die on this hill, right? Weltman has done excellent job and blah blah. Reality doesnt change your opinion even the slightest..

Not to mention the era they play in, which matters a great deal if we're talking about "of all time". The last 10-15 years needs a giant asterisk next to it, I always say that there's nothing a player can do in the current NBA that I would find impressive, literally nothing. The league is way too soft, defense has been outlawed (not that modern day players put in much effort regardless) the fundamentals of the game are long gone, and the era of the "super team" gives us 3-4 teams per season who have any chance of winning a title.

Nobody playing during this era is anywhere close to "the best of all time", there's a reason former players, when asked what MJ would do in this era, talk about him easily averaging 50. The current NBA is a glorified amateur league, both PB and Franz would just be okay players in the 80's and 90's, and so would virtually every other player in the league.

[Knightro]

The “young core” debate is genuinely one of the worst in the history of the board.

The parameters to establish what a “young core” even is were intentionally made so narrow to make the Magic’s group appear far better than it actually is.

“No, no, it only counts if it’s THREE guys not one or two and they all have to be a certain age and they all have to play a certain amount of minutes too!”

Everyone sees through this nonsense too, but the guy perpetuating it just powers right on through it.

[Knightro]

You know what people decidedly DON’T want to hear after the team loses a winnable playoff game because of a combination of personnel and coaching deficiencies?

How great the core is compared to other cores.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

You know what people decidedly DON’T want to hear after the team loses a winnable playoff game because of a combination of personnel and coaching deficiencies?

How great the core is compared to other cores.

Doesn’t matter how good Paolo/Franz are if the FO refuses to bring in a capable playmaking PG.

[dsg2021]

Goga knows he is going to get 6-14 minutes. He’s not in the game plans. He’s an enforcer. Talking about his 4 fouls as bad is a poor understanding of basketball. 1 Block to WCJ’s 0. Almost half of WCJ’s Rebounds in 4x less Minutes. WCJ team worst +/- and Goga team best basically. KP literally has to go through Concussion Protocol testing now. I know pepe is also salivating like a demon waiting for Franz to outshine Paolo in a game too. Great job Paolo on the 7 Assists to 0 TO. Should’ve been like 11 Assists to 0 TO if it wasn’t for 24 3P% Team Shooting. Too bad we can’t raise both Paolo and Franz up here. My first post-game post was to say Franz should have been involved more, but it sounds like I have to pick a side yet again in here thanks to people like pepe.

[cedric76]

Most people here are crying about the team construction but I think we could have challenged boston for that serie with suggs+Moe

[AdamTheGreek]

Goga was great. Instant impact run. He just got jobbed by the refs.
We lost the rebounding battle because the refs let Boston 2-hand shove and go over-the-back.
We lost the free throw battle because of the refs.
That should change Game 3 and 4.
The problem is Boston is due a good 3-point shooting game.

I need Goga, Tristan, and AB starting with Paolo and Franz.
KCP deserves to be benched.
Wendell only played 8 good minutes last night.
CoJo looked aggressive early but tired out quick.

If I’m Boston, I don’t play Tatum until they lose a game.

Kia Center is going to be 40% Celtics fans this weekend.

[AdamTheGreek]

Most people here are crying about the team construction but I think we could have challenged boston for that serie with suggs+Moe

A lot of the roster is very flawed.
Paolo and Franz are so good that it’d minimum be 1-1 coming back to Orlando if we had even one of Suggs or Mo.

[JoshuaPotter]

A game we deserved to lose. Only thing I like is the bruiser mentality we have developed. Boston will go into any additional series banged up to heck and either be "forged in iron" or too injured to win a championship.

Things I didn't like. The KCP signing, he has 2+ games left to prove he can shoot when his home crowd cheers for him. I'm currently not that hopeful. The rotations felt like Mose was throwing stuff to a wall. I didn't see the game but listened on the radio. But why play Houstan and not legitimately get him as many shots as KCP? Someone on this team besides our black holes need to shoot he ball. If we lose by 20 last night instead, so be it.

Paulo offensively is one of the most flexible scorers we have seen since Lewis / Howard era. We should be ashamed of the roster put around him at this point. He is an "at best" ok defender. But beyond that, he is what you want from your primary scorer. I also love Franz and wonder if we could trade Franz + Mo for a an NBA PG that can equally defend or traded Paolo for that PG what would open up for Franz and vice versa.

Our team just isn't built properly enough for the two F system to work, and we have tripled down on an injured guard (that is ideally what we want on the team when healthy) and a what appears to be has been who got his last payday through us and isn't giving us anything when it matters. Yes, read that KCP. I know you can't hear me through your bank account statements. But maybe, just maybe, you can read me.

[Knightro]

The thing with KCP, I don’t really think he’s been dogging it.

He’s played a lot of minutes this year, many of them through injuries.

His effort defensively has been good enough.

He just hasn’t made threes. And when they’re paying him that much, he’s gotta make threes. Period.

[pepe1991]

Goga knows he is going to get 6-14 minutes. He’s not in the game plans. He’s an enforcer. Talking about his 4 fouls as bad is a poor understanding of basketball. 1 Block to WCJ’s 0. Almost half of WCJ’s Rebounds in 4x less Minutes. WCJ team worst +/- and Goga team best basically. KP literally has to go through Concussion Protocol testing now. I know pepe is also salivating like a demon waiting for Franz to outshine Paolo in a game too. Great job Paolo on the 7 Assists to 0 TO. Should’ve been like 11 Assists to 0 TO if it wasn’t for 24 3P% Team Shooting. Too bad we can’t raise both Paolo and Franz up here. My first post-game post was to say Franz should have been involved more, but it sounds like I have to pick a side yet again in here thanks to people like pepe.

Among all takes this is ... A take?

"Enforcer" does what? Shows em how tough you are while also sending team to bonus, making every next foul being awarded with 2 FTA? Great. Real highly advanced basketball right there. Why not have one assassin to break leg of Brown in next?
Down by 11, he makes flagrant 1 foul, sents KP to FT line and ball on a side, Celtics score 4 points off one idiotic play to finish 3rd quarter.

I know pepe is also salivating like a demon waiting for Franz to outshine Paolo in a game too.

Ever since playoffs rolled, i'm yet to make single comment about Franz. or Paolo.

My first post-game post was to say Franz should have been involved more, but it sounds like I have to pick a side yet again in here thanks to people like pepe.

let's play a game. You find where i said anything close to what you are suggesting in last two games and i will never post here again.

Like, you either confused my post with somebody else or i don't know what's going on

I very specifically said that offense can't be two guy taking 60% of shots. My personal opinion about Franz- Paolo if, you are interested, after 2 games is way different than you insinuate.

[JoshuaPotter]

The thing with KCP, I don’t really think he’s been dogging it.

He’s played a lot of minutes this year, many of them through injuries.

His effort defensively has been good enough.

He just hasn’t made threes. And when they’re paying him that much, he’s gotta make threes. Period.

That is the thing. I can say all the hyperbole I want about dogging it.

He was payed to be a proven elite defender and spread the floor with the 3-ball. We are only getting half the promised deal.