BREAKING: Magic acquire Desmond Bane (KCP, Cole + 4 1st Round Picks + 1 1st Round Pick Swap)

[ibraheim718]

They had to pay a little more to get a guy Memphis probably didn't want to trade.

[CLosP]

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Maybe Suggs can learn from his cousin Haliburton how to be a PG lol.

[ibraheim718]

Also this trade keeps Paolo happy and optimistic about the future. Huge key to the trade no one is talking about. Trade was a home run if he can stay relatively healthy.

[ibraheim718]

Watch on YouTube

Maybe Suggs can learn from his cousin Haliburton how to be a PG lol.

Maybe Tyrese Haliburton can figure out how to not get held under his league averages when Suggs is guarding him.

[CLosP]

Watch on YouTube

Maybe Suggs can learn from his cousin Haliburton how to be a PG lol.

Maybe Tyrese Haliburton can figure out how to not get held under his league averages when Suggs is guarding him.

I don’t think he’s concerned with the amount of games Suggs misses.

[dsg2021]

Man…the more I look, the more I’m seeing that Bane is a much more complete player than I realized. His playmaking, driving & finishing are far more advanced and efficient than I assumed. Take a look at Josh Cohen’s video on YouTube…he’s much more than just a spot up 3&D guy. Superb advanced analytics offensively.

Caleb, TdS, maybe even Jett might really emerge as the shot quality improves…lots of draft equity makes me think that Weltman really targeted Bane as a truly suitable piece and did what it took to get him. It will be interesting to see the margin follow up moves coming.

My only fear is a lack of coaching creativity diminishes Bane and Suggs into spot up spectators.

LFG!

not sure you recall but i had him and bridges as top 2 wants last summer but was laughed at ...you know me i think paid a first 2030 and 29 swap to much but i can live with it for this kind of player..and have always said it would need to be kcp going out if 30 mill coming in...now need jones at 5 mill ,moe at 7/8 and maybe move off jet and get back nets 26 or 27 pick..add some 2nds and trade for a pick next yr or 28...save money this yr try and stay under tax 1 more yr..lol

I was dead set, 100% this is my receipt, anything else was an idea on a tier below, on acquiring Mikal Bridges for Orlando. I even saw the 5 1sts and still kind of wished it was us who did it. The only thing I could do was breathe easier because at least he was paid for appropriately by NYK, it wasn’t like NYK stole him out of nowhere from everyone. I guess Weltman said Hold My Beer and got an even better player in Downhill Des, aka the Fly By King

[ibraheim718]

Maybe Suggs can learn from his cousin Haliburton how to be a PG lol.

Maybe Tyrese Haliburton can figure out how to not get held under his league averages when Suggs is guarding him.

I don’t think he’s concerned with the amount of games Suggs misses.

Let him worry about his shot going cold at the worst possible moment.

[dsg2021]

So to my earlier question on whether or not you would rather have Jonathan Isaac or a MLE signing…

Based on Weltman’s comments on 96.9, I guess the better question to be asking now is would you rather have Moe Wagner back or a MLE signing?

Because that at this point seems like the choice. The Magic can decline those team options and use the mid-level, but then they wouldn’t have $$$ left for Moe because they’d be hard capped.

Break the decision and do a trade instead so you can get both an MLE target and Moe Swag.

We are not letting off the gas pedal. The Finals and a Title can be grabbed next year. Time for Orlando’s first Title.

[anothermagicfan]

To be honest I would have gave up 3 late first rd picks just so I don't have to watch the brickfest of Cole and KCP anymore. Gosh I really disliked watching them play minus the defense KCP would put out.

Every time I see Bane miss a 3 point shot I'll smile and think to myself at least it wasn't Cole

[dsg2021]

So to my earlier question on whether or not you would rather have Jonathan Isaac or a MLE signing…

Based on Weltman’s comments on 96.9, I guess the better question to be asking now is would you rather have Moe Wagner back or a MLE signing?

Because that at this point seems like the choice. The Magic can decline those team options and use the mid-level, but then they wouldn’t have $$$ left for Moe because they’d be hard capped.

Ideally you keep Moe and restructure his deal. He’s currently the best and only reliable option on offense pre-draft.

You move Isaac, sign someone at MLE, and draft a big 4/5 to fill in and play backup. TDS also exists still on this roster and he’s not unplayable to backup Paolo for 12-15mpg.

Have you seen Obi Toppin and Naz Reid these Playoffs and really thought Yeah, let’s get rid of JI.

Be greedy. Flip Jett and two 2nds for pure cap space. Use the MLE in a trade instead of a signing. We coming out of here with a top roster next season.

[VFX]

So to my earlier question on whether or not you would rather have Jonathan Isaac or a MLE signing…

Based on Weltman’s comments on 96.9, I guess the better question to be asking now is would you rather have Moe Wagner back or a MLE signing?

Because that at this point seems like the choice. The Magic can decline those team options and use the mid-level, but then they wouldn’t have $$$ left for Moe because they’d be hard capped.

Ideally you keep Moe and restructure his deal. He’s currently the best and only reliable option on offense pre-draft.

You move Isaac, sign someone at MLE, and draft a big 4/5 to fill in and play backup. TDS also exists still on this roster and he’s not unplayable to backup Paolo for 12-15mpg.

Have you seen Obi Toppin and Naz Reid these Playoffs and really thought Yeah, let’s get rid of JI.

Be greedy. Flip Jett and two 2nds for pure cap space. Use the MLE in a trade instead of a signing. We coming out of here with a top roster next season.

I just dont believe you need $15m sitting behind Paolo if you are up against the 2nd apron. They also spent a #18 and drafted TDS.

Personally, I'm moving both of them to shore up for players that are cheaper, can actually see the floor, and develop into something.

There are a few pretty good bigs that Orlando can draft at #25 should they want to use the MLE on a seasoned guard.

[basketballRob]

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[tooler]

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1 for 1 on practice shots.

Will he shoot 100% this season?

[Skybox]

Moritz was a legit top-3 Sixth Man award candidate before he got injured. You don’t walk away from that.
I will be stunned if after we decline to team option that he’s not later in the summer signed to a multi-year deal. The negotiation could get ugly because of the injury and that he won’t be available to start the season, but I expect Mo to be here.

I think people don't appreciate how effective Mo is because he is not a shot blocker. He is one of the best bench players in the league.

I’m hoping for Moe back. He is a good pair with JI especially if JI regains his agility.

I think their synergy is significant...as in, Moe without Isaac is deeply flawed and vice-versa. Not sure how Moe would look next to a different kind of big. I, for one, am as intrigued with un-swole Isaac's return next year as any of the other story lines that could make ORL a real contender. His kind of chaos, when he's on, is irreplaceable...there's just nobody like him defensively. That's playoff stuff...if he could just hit enough 3's to be considered a threat, he's really impactful.

[jonbob17]

This was a significant investment in Bane.

Sometimes you make the call, like this instance.
Sometimes you take the call, Vucevic deal.

Clearly they identified Bane as the guy they wanted. I am not sure there was a better fit out there. He makes a lot, but it's 23% of the cap which is pretty manageable with Franz pegged to 25%, and Suggs at 23%, Paolo expected to extend to 30% next year. 101% of the cap, with the 2nd apron at 134% of the cap.
Really anybody better than Bane, your looking at 30%+, and probably significantly older, and there is not enough money to spread around.

Again with a mid June acquisition they pretty clearly identified the guy they wanted and overpaid. Its worked out pretty well with Paolo and Franz....not quite as good with guys like Jett, Okeke, and KCP.

Orlando's fate still depends on the growth of Paolo and Franz, and to a lesser degree Suggs. We need Paolo to become a top 10 NBA player, and Franz to continue his trajectory while figuring out his shot. If neither of those things happen i am not sure it matters who Orlando brings in during this era.

[anothermagicfan]

A lot of focus on this thread about mo Wagner and his option being picked up or not and the possibility of adding a different player through fa and the MLE. I find it interesting that mos option is 11 million and WCJ is 150k cheaper. WCJ goes to 18 and 19 million the following 2 seasons.

My question is who do you value more? Mo won't be back until around Christmas most likely but I wouldn't be surprised if he still plays more games than WCJ.

I think I'd still rather roll with Goga and Mo and send WCJ and #25 for a young center or backup point on a cheap deal and help with the apron space

[RookieStar]

A lot of focus on this thread about mo Wagner and his option being picked up or not and the possibility of adding a different player through fa and the MLE. I find it interesting that mos option is 11 million and WCJ is 150k cheaper. WCJ goes to 18 and 19 million the following 2 seasons.

My question is who do you value more? Mo won't be back until around Christmas most likely but I wouldn't be surprised if he still plays more games than WCJ.

I think I'd still rather roll with Goga and Mo and send WCJ and #25 for a young center or backup point on a cheap deal and help with the apron space

Who is this young C? We ship out WCJ, our C rotation until January is Goga and the " kid-gloves treatment" JI...

[Knightro]

So what's next?

Option 1 - Don't use MLE. Retain Moe, Gary, CoJo (Moe and Gary on reduced contracts). Add 25th pick, but no 2nd rounders.

Option 2 - Moritz, Gary, CoJo all gone. Make MLE signing. Make 25th and 46th pick. One open roster spot.

Option 3 - Moritz, Gary, CoJo all gone. Make MLE signing. Use BAE. Make 25th and 46th picks.

Option 4 - Gary and CoJo gone. Moritz retained. Make MLE signing. Isaac punted into someone's TPE. Make 25th and 46th picks.

Option 5 - Gary and CoJo gone. Make MLE signing. Moritz retained. Isaac retained. Jett punted. Make 25th and 46th picks (THIS WOULD REQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT MOE PAYCUT WHICH MAKES IT UNLIKELY)

Option 6 - Gary and CoJo gone. Moritz retained. Isaac retained. Goga/Jett traded for the caliber of player the Magic would chase with the MLE. MLE not used. 25th and 46th picks used.

[anothermagicfan]

This ultimately comes down to how he is utilized and folded into the current system.

Now do I believe Mosely is going to have Desmond Bane running offense and getting people into better positions for pick and roll opportunities? No. Paolo and Franz will be bringing up the ball a majority of the time.

Our info on how Bane is used was in one total system in Memphis as the main secondary option off of Ja. He will not be that guy in Orlando in my estimation. He will be the 3rd option, which is nice because it means less pressure on Suggs.

It’s not that I think he’s incapable of the things you listed. It’s that he won’t be tasked with a lot of it due to how things have been run here. And no, he isn’t a primary playmaker. It’s not like people list him as some dual threat combo guard like Harden, SGA, or something. He’s a 3&D guy with a little more in his bag than the average catch and shoot guy. Hes basically a much more elite offensively older Suggs from a season ago in terms of how he gets into spots and defensively.

I thought about what you and pepe said and Bane and his role.
We were and are in the same boat regarding a need for lead ball handler. Where we differ i guess is you think we should keep PB while adding lead ball handler while i think we can trade Banchero for a lead ball handler or build around him with more scoring oriented guard.
I just dont think adding a lead ball handler to Franz, Paolo and Jalen makes that much sense. We would pay two max contracts for off ball players ? So what we need from our guard ? 1. Shooting 2. Being able to perform pick and roll becouse it doesnt work well between Franz and Paolo 3. Making smart decisive decisions moving the ball 4. Not being a weak link defensively.
You can argue Bane is just good not elite in pick and roll and i get that but other options were Fox who wanted to play for Spurs is on the last year of his contract and will want a mx himself. Morant who is not for trade, small and not good shooter. Lillard who is old and injured. Curry who is not for trade. Maxey not for trade. Young small and expensive. Like what is the alternative ?
Even if we wanted to trade Banchero who is worth it and available ? SGA not. Haliburton not. Brunson not worth it. Curry old. Cunningham not.

Bane is propably good enough to relieve some pressure from them. Can be involved in pnr, hand offs, running off the screen. When we bank on PB and FW he just makes sense while not pretending to be a lead ball handler. (and he doesnt have to)

If things go south and both Paolo and Franz stagnate than we can trade one of them for a chance at better lead ball handler. We will recharge our picks just as Banchero enters his 27 year on this planet. Until then we can try with different iterations. We can trade Suggs. We can experiment with different centers.

tldr we can still be contenders while Bane is not a lead ball handler.

I'm going to respond to this post even though I know not many want to read a wall of text.

Anyway, you candidly brought up some sacred cows so here it goes.

I'm not a huge fan of Paolo Banchero. I don't like his game. I don't like traditional power forwards that aren't either terrific defenders OR don't stretch the floor reliably. He does neither. I also just don't like face up iso forwards that are not great finishers, effort rebounders, or both. Non versatile Power Forwards in my mind are basically a utility position unless they either possess all of the aforementioned abilities or are unstoppable scorers.

There are like 8 or 9 guys that are traditional non-versatile power forwards that are actually elite league wide (Giannis, AD, Sabonis, Mobely, JJJ, Siakam, Lauri) others are either multi positional as Centers or Small Forwards. I felt the same exact way about Aaron Gordon throughout the duration of his time here. Turns out he's a 3rd/4th option utility guy, which is exactly what I thought he was based on his skillset.

With Paolo he's basically all of those things I dislike. I said this since his days at Duke and despite all that I thought he was the best selection and fit for us in the draft at #1.

ANYWAY NOW with all that being said and getting to the crux of the discussion...

Orlando is not willingly going to trade him. I've just accepted that he is part of the future and Weltman's grand plan of position-less forwards and a defensive back court emulating Boston's blueprint MINUS the ability for either of them to shoot as well as that team, which kind of defeats the whole point but I digress.

Now because I have accepted this.. My theory here WAS that an actual point guard would have been able to get Paolo into better spots positionally so that scoring would come easier. Being able to catch and shoot or run actions to get him easier looks at the basket always made more sense to me than giving him a huge lane and watching him attempt to back down players into difficult shots. This comes at the expense of a more fluid ball movement system. Instead, guys stand around waiting to him to kick the ball their way. It just makes the offense either entirely predictable or a chaotic mess underneath the basket.

I've argued with others outside of this board, or other Magic echo chambers, about the best possible development arch for Paolo. Ultimately, I've come down to the idea that he just doesn't produce efficient enough offense on-ball the way he wants to in a half court. He's not relevant enough off-ball within this current system to matter. He needs the ball in his hands. Getting a playmaking point guard alleviates that reality, as well as a competent coach that knows how to draw things up for him within a real working system. Franz must be doing a lot more off-ball for this tandem to work the way Weltman wants it to and even then, it comes down to stretching the floor.

Well thats not happening now. We have now seen 3 or 4 iterations of various dual guard lineups. AB/Suggs , Gary/Suggs, Suggs/KCP, and Suggs/Bane soon. None of those combinations address the above concerns. They aren't playmakers that can build a system with those guys. They place those responsibilities at the feet of Paolo and Franz and enable them to do exactly what I don't think is effective basketball. Franz Wagner is kind of the X factor here because he can become a guy that plays more off-ball than he would probably like, while he can also develop better playmaking skills. To what degree is the question.

tldr; Bane is a good acquisition but I dont think it changes how things are run.

I know a trade can't happen now because of the salaries but once PB is signed to his extension would you prefer trading him for one of the guys you listed like Gianni's, AD, Sabonis, Mobley, JJJ, Siakim, Lauri?

[RookieStar]

All i know is that we NEED to have a 6'4 and under white SG that we can all overrate and give the "rudy" treatment on. Championship contending teams all jave them the past 5 years.

Caruso
Braun
Pritchard
Reaves
Merril
TJ
Etc etc

We cant contend without one.