POLL: Is Ryan Anderson Untouchable

[magicman123]

I have an exercise for everyone that voted NO

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damn we should be going after marin williams, al jefferson, anderson varajao, noicioni, come on otis do it up look at their win shares

[Potterman]

I have an exercise for everyone that voted NO

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damn we should be going after marin williams, al jefferson, anderson varajao, noicioni, come on otis do it up look at their win shares

These are some good stats, however generally misleading to the real point. As stated in the thread before Ryno is a second options and best possible third option on offense. The real deal right now for Ryno is that he is a product of the environment. See Tyson Chandler also in those statistics. His name comes up a lot next to him, but ultimately what has he done?

The thing is Ryno is young enough he may yet still develop into a second option on offense. But then you still have problem number 1. Dwight Howard still is your number 2 option on offense and isn't a good number 1.

[zerp]

i never trade him for Nash because he is too old and if we trade him for Ellis we need an other trade for a starter PF. Maybe Nelson and jj or rich for and All jeferson type player.
GS never trade Ellis without Dwight in the deal.

[eyriq]

Next on Myth Busters "Ryan is a product of the environment"

The nature vs nurture debate via Basketball!

[ChildishGambino]

i'm going to post this video but only watch it if you have some free time because it's quite long....but it's sort of a highlight of the player i think Anderson should be compared to and used like.....Memhet Okur....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXAAd8OgmR0[/youtube]

In the video in between the Gilbert highlights you can see Okur play....the things he's doing isn't far from what Ryan is doing right now...but for a few possessions you see a certain play that looks like a set play for Okur....It seems like a simple pick and pop but Okur is the first option on that play for him to get a shot instead of when we do it and Ryan is a Decoy most of the time.....

But my point is i think Ryan could be a prime Okur if he reaches his potential maybe even better.....But to help him reach that potential we have to start utilizing Ryan and focus on him like he's a second option by intention...instead of it being by default because of his shot attempts....

**disclaimer** this is based soley on my opinion i didn't look up any stats........

[magicman123]

okur was a pretty good passer and he did a lot more than shoot three's, he was comfortable with the ball n his hands for the most part, ryan is not yet, we call plays all time that involve anderson being an option

[ChildishGambino]

okur was a pretty good passer and he did a lot more than shoot three's, we call plays all time that involve anderson being an option

sure....but not the first option...or the second....look i'm not saying we don't get him shots...we do and a good amount of them are wide open but my problem with that is that recently when teams made an effort to gameplan for Anderson and take him out of the game offensively they succeed....To me it was way too easy to take him out of the game in that way......Whether you like it or not we NEED Anderson's points to have a better chance to win the game....

I understand his Bread and Butter game....pick and roll/pop and if he's open shoot it...not really a designed play for Anderson more of a byproduct but it works....but when that Bread and Butter is taken away that is where i would like to see some set plays for Anderson to keep him going instead of what Stan does....which is go away from him for a while....wait to see if the other team forgot about him and then go back to him.....imo Ryan should be a constant in this offense like Dwight is but to a lesser extent.....

No reason why we should go away from him when he's hot...seen that happen more than a few times this season.....prime example that one game where Ryan had 24 at the half on pace for a 40 point game....Stan went away from him and he ended the game 27....3 points the whole second half because for some reason he was benched for a unreasonably long time......

All i want is an expansion of Ryan's role in this offense so that he can be harder to gameplan for in the playoffs where execution is key.....but it will never happen because Stan will never experiment like that...he only wants to use what works instead of trying the unknown...seems like he deems it too risky which is asinine really since the Regular season is when you should figure things out like this....IDK

[magicman123]

ryans game revolves around his teammates finding him, hes an outstanding offensive rebounder, and hes awesome at finding holes in the defense to get his shots off, but if the defenders stay at home on him, and the play makers on the team are not doing well, then what do you have? what do you want him to do? we run screens, we do pick in rolls, we set picks, we dump the ball into dwight and he can pass out, all of those plays help free him up where he becomes the first-2nd-3rd-4th option if hes open and the player finds him

he takes 7 three's a game, 12+ shots overall, you cant turn a player into something he is not, yet, we cant give him the ball and tell him to go get us points, hes limited on what he can do, and the team is limited with its skill players, i agree he gets taken out of the game for to long, but how do you want to expand his role?

[eyriq]

You guys are making this way too complicated. Ryan Anderson is 23 and already is in the conversation as the greatest three point specialist of all time, can arguably be considered Orlando's Most Valuable Player (two links there), and has been compared to Dirk Nowitzki. He is putting up the best offensive rebounding season for a stretch 4 in the history of the NBA. But yeah, sure, lets trade him for a 39 year old Nash or highly volatile, inefficient Ellis.

[ChildishGambino]

ryans game revolves around his teammates finding him, hes an outstanding offensive rebounder, and hes awesome at finding holes in the defense to get his shots off, but if the defenders stay at home on him, and the play makers on the team are not doing well, then what do you have? what do you want him to do? we run screens, we do pick in rolls, we set picks, we dump the ball into dwight and he can pass out, all of those plays help free him up where he becomes the first-2nd-3rd-4th option if hes open and the player finds him

he takes 7 three's a game, 12+ shots overall, you cant turn a player into something he is not, yet, we cant give him the ball and tell him to go get us points, hes limited on what he can do, and the team is limited with its skill players, i agree he gets taken out of the game for to long, but how do you want to expand his role?

maybe you can say what he can and can't do but i can't because i really don't know what Ryan is fully capable of because he hasn't gotten a real opportunity to do more....Sometimes these players need to be thrown into the fire and show what they can do....I said he can be a prime Okur but to reach that potential i feel like we should be using him like a true second option....Which brings me to the thing i always say...you can only see so much in practice you have to be able to do it when the lights come on...we know that better than anyone....Dwight can hit 80% of his Free-throws in practice but when it's game time he regresses to 45%......

It doesn't need to be anything complicated for Ryan.....Pick and Pop at the Baseline with him as the first option....Shooter like him should be able to hit that all day......Pick and Slip for a chance for Anderson to get to the line or finish(Similar to plays run for Baby)....Take advantage of screen switches with Ryan where SF's somehow end up on him in the post(happens quite a bit actually and Ryan is actively calling for the ball and he gets ignored or called out from the post).....I'm not saying to change how we're playing him now...all i'm saying is just to ADD to what he's doing right now offensively so we have a second tier of options if Ryan's bread and butter is taken away that's all......

Got to give him REAL GAME opportunities to learn and grow....to see what he can do and what he can't....practice can only tell you so much and it's debatable if it makes you any better individually for these players that have been playing Ball their whole lives....I'm not saying Change his role just Add to it or Expand it......

[magicman123]

You guys are making this way too complicated. Ryan Anderson is 23 and already is in the conversation as the greatest three point specialist of all time, can arguably be considered Orlando's Most Valuable Player (two links there), and has been compared to Dirk Nowitzki. He is putting up the best offensive rebounding season for a stretch 4 in the history of the NBA. But yeah, sure, lets trade him for a 39 year old Nash or highly volatile, inefficient Ellis.

you are making it complicated, nobody has denied his efficiency, not all of us want to trade him, but all your stats cant convince me that he is a legit #2 option, or he is that scorer we need, or anything like dirk, i dont think we should trade him unless something great comes along, but hes not your #2 option that your hoping

[Blue_and_Whte]

You guys are making this way too complicated. Ryan Anderson is 23 and already is in the conversation as the greatest three point specialist of all time, can arguably be considered Orlando's Most Valuable Player (two links there), and has been compared to Dirk Nowitzki. He is putting up the best offensive rebounding season for a stretch 4 in the history of the NBA. But yeah, sure, lets trade him for a 39 year old Nash or highly volatile, inefficient Ellis.

you are making it complicated, nobody has denied his efficiency, not all of us want to trade him, but all your stats cant convince me that he is a legit #2 option, or he is that scorer we need, or anything like dirk, i dont think we should trade him unless something great comes along, but hes not your #2 option that your hoping

When Ryan can create his own offense then I'll consider him a #2 option. Untill then all his great stats are because of the team he plays on. He's a system player. Period. He's nothing like Dirk.

I dont need a ton of stats and pers and whatever else people use to asess players to tell me that. HE DOESNT HAVE THE ABILITY TO CREATE HIS OWN SHOT There is nothing in this planet that can dispute that. He depends on Dwights presence and the ability of our facilitators to put the ball in his hands.

You cant give the ball to Ryan and tell him to score on player X I dont know how else to put it.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Ellis is a far > than Anderson? The great debate between efficiency and scoring embodied by two perfect candidates.

If Anderson was allowed 20 FGA per game, he would clearly be a 20ppg guy. But could he, if given a green light, create his own shot? I think most would say no.

Because he cant create his own shot. This shouldn't even be a discussion. He doest get the chance Eyriq to be the 2nd option BECAUSE HE CANT!! Monta is better in that capacity despite Anderson being a more efficient scorer.

I wish Stan would run 20 iso plays for Ryan then we can revisit his efficiency rating. Anyone that is relied so heavily upon for offense like monta is would not have a very high efficiency rating. I almost think it isnt a fair comparison based on how each player is used.

[eyriq]

Ellis is a far > than Anderson? The great debate between efficiency and scoring embodied by two perfect candidates.

If Anderson was allowed 20 FGA per game, he would clearly be a 20ppg guy. But could he, if given a green light, create his own shot? I think most would say no.

Because he cant create his own shot. This shouldn't even be a discussion. He doest get the chance Eyriq to be the 2nd option BECAUSE HE CANT!! Monta is better in that capacity despite Anderson being a more efficient scorer.

I wish Stan would run 20 iso plays for Ryan then we can revisit his efficiency rating. Anyone that is relied so heavily upon for offense like monta is would not have a very high efficiency rating. I almost think it isnt a fair comparison based on how each player is used.

Narrow view. Isolation offense =/= offense. Offense is a team game.

[BadMofoPimp]

I would only trade Anderson only if Dwight would at least opt in for 2012/13 to see what this roster could do. Otherwise, I wouldn't trade a legit advancing Big Man that is a top 10 PF in this league for a Top 10 as a PG or SG. Yep, Ellis is not even a top 5 as a SG or PG. It is much harder to find quality bigs than scoring guards. This is even though I love Ellis game. Dude has hops but cannot lead his team to victory. That has to raise some red flags.

[magicman123]

I would only trade Anderson only if Dwight would at least opt in for 2012/13 to see what this roster could do. Otherwise, I wouldn't trade a legit advancing Big Man that is a top 10 PF in this league for a Top 10 as a PG or SG. Yep, Ellis is not even a top 5 as a SG or PG. It is much harder to find quality bigs than scoring guards. This is even though I love Ellis game. Dude has hops but cannot lead his team to victory. That has to raise some red flags.

is it easier to find a 24pt/5ast player or a 15pt/7reb player?

never been the biggest ellis fan, but we need an offensive player like him around dwight one day

[BadMofoPimp]

I would only trade Anderson only if Dwight would at least opt in for 2012/13 to see what this roster could do. Otherwise, I wouldn't trade a legit advancing Big Man that is a top 10 PF in this league for a Top 10 as a PG or SG. Yep, Ellis is not even a top 5 as a SG or PG. It is much harder to find quality bigs than scoring guards. This is even though I love Ellis game. Dude has hops but cannot lead his team to victory. That has to raise some red flags.

is it easier to find a 24pt/5ast player or a 15pt/7reb player?

never been the biggest ellis fan, but we need an offensive player like him around dwight one day

Well, he won't be getting 25 shots per game in Stans System. There is a huge difference playing for a team with no offensive options than being in a system where there are plenty of options.

Plus, just liking a guy because he can create his own shot does not make him an all around Superstar.

I would definitely take Ellis over Anderson, but only if Dwight commits. Otherwise, there is too much to gamble on and I think Ryno could be a better fit long term here if Dwight does not commit.

[Bensational]

If Anderson was allowed 20 FGA per game, he would clearly be a 20ppg guy. But could he, if given a green light, create his own shot? I think most would say no.

Because he cant create his own shot. This shouldn't even be a discussion. He doest get the chance Eyriq to be the 2nd option BECAUSE HE CANT!! Monta is better in that capacity despite Anderson being a more efficient scorer.

I wish Stan would run 20 iso plays for Ryan then we can revisit his efficiency rating. Anyone that is relied so heavily upon for offense like monta is would not have a very high efficiency rating. I almost think it isnt a fair comparison based on how each player is used.

Narrow view. Isolation offense =/= offense. Offense is a team game.

true, but all the elites have 1-2 scorers who can dominate a game through all 4 quarters just off ISOs.

LBJ/Wade, KD/Westbrook, Rose, Dirk, Kobe, etc

we NEED that go-to scorer. we've needed it since 09. had we had one in last year's playoffs, we would've beat the Hawks. had we had one against the Celtics in the ECFs, we would have had a much better chance of beating them.

[eyriq]

There are amazing names on a list of #2's for championship teams, such as young Magic, McHale, old Kareem, Worthy, Doctor J, Dumars, Pippen, Drexler, Robinson, young Kobe, Parker|Manu, old Shaq, Pierce, Gasol.

[Blue_and_Whte]

There are amazing names on a list of #2's for championship teams, such as young Magic, McHale, old Kareem, Worthy, Doctor J, Dumars, Pippen, Drexler, Robinson, young Kobe, Parker|Manu, old Shaq, Pierce, Gasol.

All guys that can be isolated and carry a teams offense. Too bad we dont have one of those.
My view on offense isnt narrow, My point is that if given the ball in iso's Ryan couldn't create offense for himself. I know offense is a team effort, even moreso in our offense being that our second leading scorer is almost completely dependent on someone else passing him the ball. If it werent for his offensive rebounding he would litteraly right now be Pat Garrity he has no other offensive skill set. Maybe in flashes but not enough to be considered a multi dimensional player imo anyway. Although I am eager to see if he proves me wrong.

Look who has won a title
Lakers
Heat
Spurs
Mavs

Look at the top teams this year and their second options...Can those guys create offense for themselves?
Heat Wade/James/Bosh
Bulls Rose/Boozer/Deng
OKC Durant/Westbrook/Harden
Mavs Dirk/Terry

Legitimate players that can be given the ball and carry their teams if their superstar is struggling. We dont have a player like that on our team.