Summer Trades...never too early

[basketballRob]

No way the Warriors trade for Vuc. Wiggins has way more potential at a position that's harder to fill.



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[Bensational]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7287074

Orl sends Vuc, lotto protected 2021 pick
GSW sends Wiggins

This deal makes sense for both teams. GSW get a C who can space, pass and defend, who's on a declining contract which should help with luxury tax concerns. But his contract might also be why they don't want to make that deal. I keep thinking they might prefer to flip Wiggins for a few smaller pieces on good value contracts to fill out their depth. Plus, I read a quote from the GSW GM who said he liked that Wiggins is a big athletic body they can throw at LeBron/Kawhi. I don't actually think he's up for that challenge at all, but if that's what they want out of that role then Gordon is the perfect fit, and he's cheaper. So a Gordon/Wiggins flip seems more likely, IMO.

But, I also feel like Gordon is the guy you don't want to give away yet. Not until we put him in a position to maximise his his value. He's the guy I imagine will be a big difference maker in the playoffs. The Igoudala/Draymond type who propels next level defense.

I'm still a Wiggins believer. I'll probably be wrong for it, but I'm happy to take the chance. I believe Fultz/Wiggins could be just as good for us as Ja/Brooks are for Memphis. But I also think they'll need the right balance for that team to work. Memphis are probably a great model for us to follow, to be honest, and they're competing for the playoffs in the West.

Valanciunas - Bamba
JJJr - Isaac
Winslow - Gordon
Brooks - Wiggins
Morant - Fultz

Bamba isn't enough of a banger to give us what Val gives Memphis, but he would also offer us 3pt shooting from the C spot. Isaac needs to improve his 3's a lot to match JJJr, but if he does, he becomes a superstar with that and his defense. Fultz needs to improve his 3pt%, obvs, but Morant only takes 2 a game so he's not lighting the world on fire with his range yet. Brooks/Wiggins and Winslow/Gordon are pretty comparable.

You get a young core like that, show they can be competitive, and that's when you can start finding value trades for disgruntled stars and consolidate some of your youth for them. But with expensive ageing veterans, that's when you end up with a Whiteside for Myers Leonard and junk trade (though Leonard has given them good bench minutes this season).

Golden State can just take Wiseman in the draft and not give up Wiggins... There is 0 way an organization as smart as the Warriors is interested in Vuc. GS just needs a C to rebound be a defensive monster while setting screens and what not

Hmmm. Maybe we could flip Vuc for Bogdanovic (s&t to GSW) + Bjelica + Holmes and send them to GSW for Wiggins? Or BKN trades Dinwiddie + Jordan + filler but the filler will be tough to find.

I can't think of many other teams who might give us pieces of value for Vuc that GSW would want. Maybe I'm just fooling myself into believing we can get out of Vuc's contract and actually add something.

[VFX]

This deal makes sense for both teams. GSW get a C who can space, pass and defend, who's on a declining contract which should help with luxury tax concerns. But his contract might also be why they don't want to make that deal. I keep thinking they might prefer to flip Wiggins for a few smaller pieces on good value contracts to fill out their depth. Plus, I read a quote from the GSW GM who said he liked that Wiggins is a big athletic body they can throw at LeBron/Kawhi. I don't actually think he's up for that challenge at all, but if that's what they want out of that role then Gordon is the perfect fit, and he's cheaper. So a Gordon/Wiggins flip seems more likely, IMO.

But, I also feel like Gordon is the guy you don't want to give away yet. Not until we put him in a position to maximise his his value. He's the guy I imagine will be a big difference maker in the playoffs. The Igoudala/Draymond type who propels next level defense.

I'm still a Wiggins believer. I'll probably be wrong for it, but I'm happy to take the chance. I believe Fultz/Wiggins could be just as good for us as Ja/Brooks are for Memphis. But I also think they'll need the right balance for that team to work. Memphis are probably a great model for us to follow, to be honest, and they're competing for the playoffs in the West.

Valanciunas - Bamba
JJJr - Isaac
Winslow - Gordon
Brooks - Wiggins
Morant - Fultz

Bamba isn't enough of a banger to give us what Val gives Memphis, but he would also offer us 3pt shooting from the C spot. Isaac needs to improve his 3's a lot to match JJJr, but if he does, he becomes a superstar with that and his defense. Fultz needs to improve his 3pt%, obvs, but Morant only takes 2 a game so he's not lighting the world on fire with his range yet. Brooks/Wiggins and Winslow/Gordon are pretty comparable.

You get a young core like that, show they can be competitive, and that's when you can start finding value trades for disgruntled stars and consolidate some of your youth for them. But with expensive ageing veterans, that's when you end up with a Whiteside for Myers Leonard and junk trade (though Leonard has given them good bench minutes this season).

Golden State can just take Wiseman in the draft and not give up Wiggins... There is 0 way an organization as smart as the Warriors is interested in Vuc. GS just needs a C to rebound be a defensive monster while setting screens and what not

Hmmm. Maybe we could flip Vuc for Bogdanovic (s&t to GSW) + Bjelica + Holmes and send them to GSW for Wiggins? Or BKN trades Dinwiddie + Jordan + filler but the filler will be tough to find.

I can't think of many other teams who might give us pieces of value for Vuc that GSW would want. Maybe I'm just fooling myself into believing we can get out of Vuc's contract and actually add something.

That would require the FO to admit we aren’t a good team with Vuc having the highest usg % on offense. Good luck with that.

[zaymon]

Why everyone all of sudden want Wiggins ? Can we please build around good players ? If we trade Vuc or Evan i want a star on our team, or it will be the same or worse.

[OrlChamps2030]

Why everyone all of sudden want Wiggins ? Can we please build around good players ? If we trade Vuc or Evan i want a star on our team, or it will be the same or worse.

Trading Vuc or Evan isnt getting you a star player on this team.

[zaymon]

Why everyone all of sudden want Wiggins ? Can we please build around good players ? If we trade Vuc or Evan i want a star on our team, or it will be the same or worse.

Trading Vuc or Evan isnt getting you a star player on this team.

Well in a package of course. Right now i cant see such a deal, but things change fast in the nba

[VFX]

Why everyone all of sudden want Wiggins ? Can we please build around good players ? If we trade Vuc or Evan i want a star on our team, or it will be the same or worse.

Trading Vuc or Evan isnt getting you a star player on this team.

It’s funny. A lot of people on this board wanted us to take a flier on Malik Beasley as a low risk/high reward type of trade. He plays the clippers the other night for Minnesota and goes for 25 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists against one of the best defenses in the league. Our FO is too “play it safe” to take a risk on that type of player.

[zaymon]

Why everyone all of sudden want Wiggins ? Can we please build around good players ? If we trade Vuc or Evan i want a star on our team, or it will be the same or worse.

Trading Vuc or Evan isnt getting you a star player on this team.

It’s funny. A lot of people on this board wanted us to take a flier on Malik Beasley as a low risk/high reward type of trade. He plays the clippers the other night for Minnesota and goes for 25 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists against one of the best defenses in the league. Our FO is too “play it safe” to take a risk on that type of player.

You really think Beasley was the answer ? He is worse than Fournier and not that young.

[PrimeThyme]

I just think it's funny that the same people who said Vuc had no trade value for years when some of us were begging to trade him while he was still on a bargain deal all of the sudden think that after signing to a 100 million dollar contract he will fetch any real value on the open market.

It's just not going to happen. He was resigned in a desperate attempt to remain relevant In the Eastern conference and his contract was not structured in a way so that he could be easily traded for value anytime soon.

Based on the advanced numbers you could have made the argument he was playing at a top 30 level last year and management gambled on the fact that they would be getting that player for 4 more years. In fact, I actually remember Clifford and Weltman saying that Vuc was only just entering his prime and would only get better than the player we saw last year but as some of us feared, that hasn't happened (efficiency, counting stats, advanced numbers are all down across the board) and now we are where we are with it.

[VFX]

Trading Vuc or Evan isnt getting you a star player on this team.

It’s funny. A lot of people on this board wanted us to take a flier on Malik Beasley as a low risk/high reward type of trade. He plays the clippers the other night for Minnesota and goes for 25 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists against one of the best defenses in the league. Our FO is too “play it safe” to take a risk on that type of player.

You really think Beasley was the answer ? He is worse than Fournier and not that young.

4-5 years younger is quite a bit.

Also, who said he would outright replace Fournier?

Minnesota gave up Covington for a package including Beasley. I’d venture to say Beasley will have way more trade value once Fournier is paid.

[OrlChamps2030]

Why everyone all of sudden want Wiggins ? Can we please build around good players ? If we trade Vuc or Evan i want a star on our team, or it will be the same or worse.

Trading Vuc or Evan isnt getting you a star player on this team.

Well in a package of course. Right now i cant see such a deal, but things change fast in the nba

Who wants to take on 3-4 years of major guaranteed money between Vucevic and Fournier? Let alone for a star? Get real

We’ve seen what teams led by Vucevic and Fournier can do.

[Xatticus]

I remember hearing about the Heat’s high level training regiment as far back as the Shaq-Heat days. Elite scouting, high level training, high expectations. Just look at the results.

Yeah. It's not new. This has been going on for years. If you haven't noticed this by now, then you just aren't paying attention.

They also have a reputation for jettisoning their flotsam. If a player doesn't buy in, they get shipped out. They punished both Johnson and Waiters this year before dumping them. By contrast, we polish our turds and then give them fat contracts in an effort to achieve mediocrity. We aren't there yet, but one more shooter and we might be!

[Xatticus]

Why Heat's evolution center didn't help Justice Winslow,Emanual Terry, Yante Maten, Jordan MIckey, Derrick Walton?

It doesn't matter why it didn't work out, it's the fact THAT it didn't work out. And because it didn't work out, the Heat acknowledged it and moved on in a timely manner unlike Orlando does.

Sidenote: The Heat went all-in on this season trading for Iggy and the injured Winslow was the price they had to pay for it. Have to give something to get something.

They aren't actually all-in for this season. Miami's gambit wasn't for this season. They are going to be huge players in free agency for the next couple years. Don't be surprised if that's where Giannis ends up.

[Def Swami]

Why Heat's evolution center didn't help Justice Winslow,Emanual Terry, Yante Maten, Jordan MIckey, Derrick Walton?

It doesn't matter why it didn't work out, it's the fact THAT it didn't work out. And because it didn't work out, the Heat acknowledged it and moved on in a timely manner unlike Orlando does.

Sidenote: The Heat went all-in on this season trading for Iggy and the injured Winslow was the price they had to pay for it. Have to give something to get something.

They aren't actually all-in for this season. Miami's gambit wasn't for this season. They are going to be huge players in free agency for the next couple years. Don't be surprised if that's where Giannis ends up.

Absolutely. And the next 2 years are about showing Giannis how competent of a franchise they are by being competitive in the East and building an Eastern Conference contender without him. That's the best way to get his and other free agents' attention.

[pepe1991]

4 on 5 basketball >playing Wiggins for free, Me and my friends have joke where we act that in pickup game Wiggins would not be picked and we would play 3 on 2 because he is enough of hendicap for a team.

Just a notion that he is brought into trade ideas is depressing enough. And notion that Warrior took him just yells " Jerry West left them"

Magic mid season trade grade should be D+ , but it's automatic upgrade to C+ by not thinkin about collosal black whole Wiggins is.

[Xatticus]

Right now Magic are 8th of 15 teams.
So downside is to fall 7 slots below current one.

You love to pretend Magic are worst team on East and there is no worst than that, but there is.
Hawks, Hornets, Bulls, Knicks, Cavs and Pistons, Wizards are all worst. Right now each and every one of them would want to be 8th seed, yet they are incapable of jumping.
Why we know that's the case ? Because just look at their moves:

Cavs- took gamble on Drummond to be relevant now
Hawks- took on Capela to be relevant now
Wizards -resigned Beal to be relevant now
Bulls- signed Young, and Satoransky in offseson to be relevant now
Knicks- went for every single FA to be relevant now
Hornets- signed on Terry Rozier to not fall back to 10 wins season
Pistons - kept Rose to stay somewhat competitive and not fall off cliff


So nobody is activily trying to make roster worst any more. Nobody is tanking. In whole league nobody but Warriors really "tank" and they do it because they will use pick to add another player for championship run next year.

The Cavs didn't trade for Drummond to be relevant now. There is no hope of salvaging this season. They probably traded for Drummond to get a look at him and see whether it was worthwhile to re-sign him.

The Hawks traded for three bigs to give Young some screeners. They are trying to aid in the development of their potential star.

The Wizards re-signed Beal because... duh. This was always a punt year for them with Wall out.

The Bulls are a mess, yet they are only a few games behind the Magic. Their front office is incompetent. Their head coach is a belligerent buffoon. Their players are all unhappy and loathe their coach. Yet the Bulls are only a few games behind Orlando.

The Knicks signed those free agents because they struck out on Durant and had to spend money. You have to meet the salary floor.

The Hornets are the Hornets. I mean... it's like staring into a mirror. We'll eventually let Clifford go and hire Borrego.

The Pistons season is done because Blake Griffin is broken. They are only a few games behind Orlando, yet reports are that they are prepared to tear it down. Supposedly everyone was available at the deadline and they straight dumped Drummond.

You can't spin this season into a success. The first 15 wins or so are basically free. the next 20 are the easiest wins to buy. This isn't linear. Wins get more expensive and more difficult to attain the higher you go. Spending the money we are spending for the results we are getting is an abject disaster. Worse yet, there is no clear path forward other than...

[pepe1991]

Right now Magic are 8th of 15 teams.
So downside is to fall 7 slots below current one.

You love to pretend Magic are worst team on East and there is no worst than that, but there is.
Hawks, Hornets, Bulls, Knicks, Cavs and Pistons, Wizards are all worst. Right now each and every one of them would want to be 8th seed, yet they are incapable of jumping.
Why we know that's the case ? Because just look at their moves:

Cavs- took gamble on Drummond to be relevant now
Hawks- took on Capela to be relevant now
Wizards -resigned Beal to be relevant now
Bulls- signed Young, and Satoransky in offseson to be relevant now
Knicks- went for every single FA to be relevant now
Hornets- signed on Terry Rozier to not fall back to 10 wins season
Pistons - kept Rose to stay somewhat competitive and not fall off cliff


So nobody is activily trying to make roster worst any more. Nobody is tanking. In whole league nobody but Warriors really "tank" and they do it because they will use pick to add another player for championship run next year.

The Cavs didn't trade for Drummond to be relevant now. There is no hope of salvaging this season. They probably traded for Drummond to get a look at him and see whether it was worthwhile to re-sign him.

The Hawks traded for three bigs to give Young some screeners. They are trying to aid in the development of their potential star.

The Wizards re-signed Beal because... duh. This was always a punt year for them with Wall out.

The Bulls are a mess, yet they are only a few games behind the Magic. Their front office is incompetent. Their head coach is a belligerent buffoon. Their players are all unhappy and loathe their coach. Yet the Bulls are only a few games behind Orlando.

The Knicks signed those free agents because they struck out on Durant and had to spend money. You have to meet the salary floor.

The Hornets are the Hornets. I mean... it's like staring into a mirror. We'll eventually let Clifford go and hire Borrego.

The Pistons season is done because Blake Griffin is broken. They are only a few games behind Orlando, yet reports are that they are prepared to tear it down. Supposedly everyone was available at the deadline and they straight dumped Drummond.

You can't spin this season into a success. The first 15 wins or so are basically free. the next 20 are the easiest wins to buy. This isn't linear. Wins get more expensive and more difficult to attain the higher you go. Spending the money we are spending for the results we are getting is an abject disaster. Worse yet, there is no clear path forward other than...

I'm not spinning anything. Being 8th of 15 means 7 teams are worst, and among them only Pistons ( forced) are ones who were sellers at trade deadline.
Hornets had reasons to be sellers but didn't really sell much.

Pretending that 10 wins swing over a season isn't big deal to me is laughable. It's literally was margin of 9th and 4th seed last year.
Even 5 wins, on West was margin between 3rd and 6th seed.

Despite all the injuries, Magic are stil on path for 35-38 ish wins, riding the easiest schedule for rest of a year .
Despite having injuries- riddled season.

Major sucess ? Not really. Massive dissapointment? Not really.


Once again, most fans here only view basketball side of NBA, and ignore that this team was actually losing money 2 years ago in middle of tanking and sucking. What's worst from not competitive company? One that is bleeding money.

[Bensational]

It doesn't matter why it didn't work out, it's the fact THAT it didn't work out. And because it didn't work out, the Heat acknowledged it and moved on in a timely manner unlike Orlando does.

Sidenote: The Heat went all-in on this season trading for Iggy and the injured Winslow was the price they had to pay for it. Have to give something to get something.

They aren't actually all-in for this season. Miami's gambit wasn't for this season. They are going to be huge players in free agency for the next couple years. Don't be surprised if that's where Giannis ends up.

Absolutely. And the next 2 years are about showing Giannis how competent of a franchise they are by being competitive in the East and building an Eastern Conference contender without him. That's the best way to get his and other free agents' attention.

Miami's approach of bringing in Butler to lead the team right now is the right way to do it. If you want to be competitive, get a good, competitive player. He's a leader who has really helped balance the young squad and set a tone.

I remember wanting to trade for him last season when Minny were giving him away. The response was "who wants to give all that up for a rental?". Philly did ok out of it in the end. They got Richardson back at least.

But nah, we good with Vuc and Fournier

[pepe1991]

I just find it funny how new front office haters are ones who attacking me when my first impression with them was " ok, they did nothing so why are you guys drooling over them"

I also find it funny how you guys want to use Miami blueprint for example of "path" yet advocate for tanking and tearing roster down and keep repeating " trade everybody but Fultz and Isaac".

Pretty much arguing against own points all the time.

What execlly you want to do ? Trade everybody ? Selling team? Hooking coach? Hooking front office?

Or having Alex Martins being this mythical creature of evil and always fingerpoint at him ( despite never really knowing how much influence he actually has on anything other than internet speculations ).

Lot of crying and moaning , nobody really has clear vision what to do, other than cry and complain all the time. And most trades proposed are complete joke being biased to the bone.

I don't act i have all the answers, but at least i don't go from topic to topic talking how XY player is "cancer" and how team is going nowhere. Why support ? Leave and come back once team is again watchable to you ? Why put yourself through "suffering " if you can't find anything worth watching. It's just a damn sport, most NBA players don't take it THAT serious, why fans do? Lebron literally lost nba finals and told everybody that he'll be flying in his private jet while we will continue with our miserable lifes

[Skin]

Im trying to convince myself that we traded for James Ennis in order to "aid in the development of any of our potential stars".

But I just can't