Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[Blue_and_Whte]

Honestly prefer Nesmith over vassell

I am not the biggest fan of Vassell, but him compared to Nesmith is like Isaac next to Kuzma. Yes Kuzma is a better scorer, but thats all.
Devin lacks 1 on 1 creation but defensive lineup with him, Okeke and Isaac would be insane. I would propably prefer Okoro to be that bully defender, but his his shooting is a problem.

I think Nesmith is a better fit over Vassell. He's like Jonathan Clay who can play defense. Why would that be a bad outcome of this draft?


..

I like Nesmith but his game is a little robotic for my taste. He's not a smooth athlete. This obviously has ZERO to do with him being a good NBA player. Just personal preference. I think Vassell's defensive instincts are on another level though, imo.

[Blue_and_Whte]

This is my best Mock based on intel

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em51MeXXIAAil5D?format=png&name=medium

Kinda what you can expect, OKC trading up to POR's pick using 25+28

If Vassell, Nesmith, and Hampton are all gone by #15, then this draft is a big loss for me. Yes I see Hayes as Mr. BPA based on your mock. But boy do I now see why the Magic must trade up at least three-spots in this draft.


..

you worry about Hampton? yet another guy that absolutely cannot shoot.

Very Exum-y if you ask me. Can do nothing but drive and doesn't really defend

After reading all these reports of all these guys charging up the boards (Kira Lewis, Nesmith, Cole Anthony, Saddiq Bey, among others) I don't think we are going to even need to trade AG to move up anymore at this point. I think it might behoove us to trade AG or something else for another pick a get 2 guys that were lotto until day of. I just looked at a few mocks that have come out today and one had Vassell dropping to 14, Terry dropping into the 20s, and Maxey into the 20s.

We'd then technically have 3 rookies in the rotation presumably. Whatever peoples perception is about Cliff's desire to play young players, this would be difficult for a lot of coaches unless they're tanking.

[Nyce_1]

Nesmith = Ben McLemore

I'd take Josh Green or Desmond Bane over him.

[zaymon]

Nesmith = Ben McLemore

I'd take Josh Green or Desmond Bane over him.

I see it the same way. You give Nesmith bigger offensive role and you cry from frustration. You limit him to 3 and D role and you wonder why you havent took better defender. Propably i am underselling Nesmith shooting, but you have to be really special to draw plays for you.

[yoyojw17]

A 6ft 3 almost 200lb Jameer Nelson with a 40+ inch vertical sounds like a potential multiple time all star to me ?

I’d love to get that with the #15th pick, especially considering we have a shooting guard size ball handler who has a knack for creating easy scoring opportunities for his teammates in Fultz.

Agreed.... if he is available at 15... he definitely should be in consideration... shoot ... he probably should be in consideration as top 5 and injuries and team situation might have shot him in the foot... while giving lower teams to grab him. He might even still go high ... if he's balled out in workouts and interviews. That night might have a lot of surprises. Hope it's exciting for us

It says he has a 7'11" standing reach, which is about what Jameer was. Unless it's a mistake. On the other hand Chris Paul's is 7'9". Kira Lewis is 8'5".

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Damn... i have 7'- 9 to10" inch standing reach and i'm only 5'-9 to 10" on a good day. lol

but yeah... as long as he knows how to create separation... get his shot off... it is what it is. We'll see.... 2 more days and all of our suspicions will be put to rest... and I hope we are all happy with the results.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Vecenie on The Athletic just came out wit his updated Mock. He mentioned that this years Mock is as low of confidence as he can remember due to the Pandemic issues. Says he's heard scouts call 2nd round talents as mid 1st picks. Take the mock with a grain if salt but I think we'll be in great shape to get 1 of: Nesmith, Lewis, Maxey, Terry and that is a step in the right direction.

I'll list some names we've been talking about and where below.

Nesmith- 10 Phoenix
Vassell - 12 Kings
Hayes - 13 Pelicans
Hampton - 14 Celtics
Lewis Jr - 15 MAGIC
Maxey - 18 Dallas
Anthony - 18 Miami
Terry - 21 76ers

2nd round he has us taking Jami'us Ramsey and I like that but it's all random after the 1st round. I do like the fact there were 7 guards off the board in the 2nd round around our picks.

[KillMonger]

I am not the biggest fan of Vassell, but him compared to Nesmith is like Isaac next to Kuzma. Yes Kuzma is a better scorer, but thats all.
Devin lacks 1 on 1 creation but defensive lineup with him, Okeke and Isaac would be insane. I would propably prefer Okoro to be that bully defender, but his his shooting is a problem.

I think Nesmith is a better fit over Vassell. He's like Jonathan Clay who can play defense. Why would that be a bad outcome of this draft?


..

I like Nesmith but his game is a little robotic for my taste. He's not a smooth athlete. This obviously has ZERO to do with him being a good NBA player. Just personal preference. I think Vassell's defensive instincts are on another level though, imo.

i think vassell is even more robotic than nesmith, real boring offensive skills and an undeveloped body which hurts on the defensive end 1 on 1 when a player is bigger than he is....Nesmith already has the nba body and he has a bit more tools in his bag offensively so he doesn't have to have every single shot created for him...his weakness is the defensive end but there is enough there to work with.... not expecting Nesmith to be dpoy as a rookie nor vassell

[jonbob17]

Draft scenarios:
Best: Somehow we were able to trade up to take Lamelo Ball. I don't think we have the ammo to get to number one, BUT if for some reason Minnesota didn't take Ball, and I believe they have to, if we could get something done with GS. I loathe the idea of Wiggins and 3 years of his contract and service, but I think Ball would be worth it. 6'7" guys who can pass at a very high level excel in this league. If the shooting and defense improve we are talking about a truly elite player.

Pretty, pretty, pretty good: If we can find someone wanting to move down, and pick up Hayes. It seems increasingly unlikely, that A. he will slip AND B. we would be able to move up to a slot we could select him.

Good:
Stay at 15 and just pick who ever falls. I hope it is Hampton, but Lewis or Maxey, Anthony, Green, would be good as well.

Really growing on me, but not sure of how good/bad it is. Take Poku at 15. I don't think he is a 4, I think of him as a huge SF. Could you imagine a future line up, that features Poku, Isaac, and Bamba, all of which are able to knock down 3's, and are about 7'? I think Isaac/Okeke would be able to play defense against the better 3s in the league. The idea of Poku acting as a secondary playmaker from the wing is really interesting.

A little later, depending on who we select first, making a trade back into the first to either select Bane, Flynn, Hughes, or Mcdaniels. Try to get as much out of this draft as possible. There should be some good picks available throughout the 20s.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I think Nesmith is a better fit over Vassell. He's like Jonathan Clay who can play defense. Why would that be a bad outcome of this draft?


..

I like Nesmith but his game is a little robotic for my taste. He's not a smooth athlete. This obviously has ZERO to do with him being a good NBA player. Just personal preference. I think Vassell's defensive instincts are on another level though, imo.

i think vassell is even more robotic than nesmith, real boring offensive skills and an undeveloped body which hurts on the defensive end 1 on 1 when a player is bigger than he is....Nesmith already has the nba body and he has a bit more tools in his bag offensively so he doesn't have to have every single shot created for him...his weakness is the defensive end but there is enough there to work with.... not expecting Nesmith to be dpoy as a rookie nor vassell

Literally just pulled up their scouting reports to see what I missed about Vessell...

Neismith

Weaknesses: Body of work is not robust as he did not sustain his breakout season for more than 14 games, and missed nearly all of conference play. He also did not shoot at the same clip as a freshman (33.7% from 3) … Lacks great vision and passing ability, granted a lot of the offensive weight was put on his shoulders at Vanderbilt … Somewhat robotic and stiff … Not the most fluid of athletes.

Vassell

Smooth athlete with a well-rounded game.
Moves exceptionally well without the ball.
Has very good range and takes quality shots.
Versatile and impactful defender.

Vassell was one of the best transition finisher in all of college basketball last season and ranked in the top 94 percentile and converted nearly 71% of his fast break attempts.. He’s a smooth athlete that just glides down the court and covers so much ground with his long strides.. He has good body control What’s crazy is, Vassell often creates and starts his own personal fast breaks on the defensive end with his excellent defensive instincts and energy, but that’s a totally different topic…

I mean.. I haven't once read anything that says Vassell is anything other than a smooth athlete. On the flip I only found one SR that agrees with me on AN. Fluidity aside AN is more one dimensional on offense imo. He's literally a catch and shoot player only and not nearly as good defensively. You can bulk a guy up, but you can't teach them defensive instincts like Vessell has so Im not that worried about his body. I think he has a more well rounded offensive game.

[tiderulz]

Vecenie on The Athletic just came out wit his updated Mock. He mentioned that this years Mock is as low of confidence as he can remember due to the Pandemic issues. Says he's heard scouts call 2nd round talents as mid 1st picks. Take the mock with a grain if salt but I think we'll be in great shape to get 1 of: Nesmith, Lewis, Maxey, Terry and that is a step in the right direction.

I'll list some names we've been talking about and where below.

Nesmith- 10 Phoenix
Vassell - 12 Kings
Hayes - 13 Pelicans
Hampton - 14 Celtics
Lewis Jr - 15 MAGIC
Maxey - 18 Dallas
Anthony - 18 Miami
Terry - 21 76ers

2nd round he has us taking Jami'us Ramsey and I like that but it's all random after the 1st round. I do like the fact there were 7 guards off the board in the 2nd round around our picks.

i hadnt heard of Ramsey. This review has him going earlier than our pick

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2020/10/21/21519503/2020-nba-draft-profiles-jahmius-ramsey-memphis-grizzlies-texas-tech-red-raiders

[tiderulz]

Draft scenarios:
Best: Somehow we were able to trade up to take Lamelo Ball. I don't think we have the ammo to get to number one, BUT if for some reason Minnesota didn't take Ball, and I believe they have to, if we could get something done with GS. I loathe the idea of Wiggins and 3 years of his contract and service, but I think Ball would be worth it. 6'7" guys who can pass at a very high level excel in this league. If the shooting and defense improve we are talking about a truly elite player.

Pretty, pretty, pretty good: If we can find someone wanting to move down, and pick up Hayes. It seems increasingly unlikely, that A. he will slip AND B. we would be able to move up to a slot we could select him.

Good:
Stay at 15 and just pick who ever falls. I hope it is Hampton, but Lewis or Maxey, Anthony, Green, would be good as well.

Really growing on me, but not sure of how good/bad it is. Take Poku at 15. I don't think he is a 4, I think of him as a huge SF. Could you imagine a future line up, that features Poku, Isaac, and Bamba, all of which are able to knock down 3's, and are about 7'? I think Isaac/Okeke would be able to play defense against the better 3s in the league. The idea of Poku acting as a secondary playmaker from the wing is really interesting.

A little later, depending on who we select first, making a trade back into the first to either select Bane, Flynn, Hughes, or Mcdaniels. Try to get as much out of this draft as possible. There should be some good picks available throughout the 20s.

you really dont like players that can shoot do you? Ball, Hampton, Maxey. I dont think Ball is a complete bust, but i wouldnt pay the price required to go get him. Hampton couldnt hit the side of a barn standing next to it. as for Poku, he would need to stay overseason for 2+ years developing that body.

[tiderulz]

I like Nesmith but his game is a little robotic for my taste. He's not a smooth athlete. This obviously has ZERO to do with him being a good NBA player. Just personal preference. I think Vassell's defensive instincts are on another level though, imo.

i think vassell is even more robotic than nesmith, real boring offensive skills and an undeveloped body which hurts on the defensive end 1 on 1 when a player is bigger than he is....Nesmith already has the nba body and he has a bit more tools in his bag offensively so he doesn't have to have every single shot created for him...his weakness is the defensive end but there is enough there to work with.... not expecting Nesmith to be dpoy as a rookie nor vassell

Literally just pulled up their scouting reports to see what I missed about Vessell...

Neismith

Weaknesses: Body of work is not robust as he did not sustain his breakout season for more than 14 games, and missed nearly all of conference play. He also did not shoot at the same clip as a freshman (33.7% from 3) … Lacks great vision and passing ability, granted a lot of the offensive weight was put on his shoulders at Vanderbilt … Somewhat robotic and stiff … Not the most fluid of athletes.

Vassell

Smooth athlete with a well-rounded game.
Moves exceptionally well without the ball.
Has very good range and takes quality shots.
Versatile and impactful defender.

Vassell was one of the best transition finisher in all of college basketball last season and ranked in the top 94 percentile and converted nearly 71% of his fast break attempts.. He’s a smooth athlete that just glides down the court and covers so much ground with his long strides.. He has good body control What’s crazy is, Vassell often creates and starts his own personal fast breaks on the defensive end with his excellent defensive instincts and energy, but that’s a totally different topic…

I mean.. I haven't once read anything that says Vassell is anything other than a smooth athlete. On the flip I only found one SR that agrees with me on AN. Fluidity aside AN is more one dimensional on offense imo. He's literally a catch and shoot player only and not nearly as good defensively. You can bulk a guy up, but you can't teach them defensive instincts like Vessell has so Im not that worried about his body. I think he has a more well rounded offensive game.

Nesmith to me compares to Khris Middleton.

[magicman112]

I'm fully expecting WeHam to draft another wing/big at 15 and sell off the 2nd round pick like they do every year.

[jonbob17]

Draft scenarios:
Best: Somehow we were able to trade up to take Lamelo Ball. I don't think we have the ammo to get to number one, BUT if for some reason Minnesota didn't take Ball, and I believe they have to, if we could get something done with GS. I loathe the idea of Wiggins and 3 years of his contract and service, but I think Ball would be worth it. 6'7" guys who can pass at a very high level excel in this league. If the shooting and defense improve we are talking about a truly elite player.

Pretty, pretty, pretty good: If we can find someone wanting to move down, and pick up Hayes. It seems increasingly unlikely, that A. he will slip AND B. we would be able to move up to a slot we could select him.

Good:
Stay at 15 and just pick who ever falls. I hope it is Hampton, but Lewis or Maxey, Anthony, Green, would be good as well.

Really growing on me, but not sure of how good/bad it is. Take Poku at 15. I don't think he is a 4, I think of him as a huge SF. Could you imagine a future line up, that features Poku, Isaac, and Bamba, all of which are able to knock down 3's, and are about 7'? I think Isaac/Okeke would be able to play defense against the better 3s in the league. The idea of Poku acting as a secondary playmaker from the wing is really interesting.

A little later, depending on who we select first, making a trade back into the first to either select Bane, Flynn, Hughes, or Mcdaniels. Try to get as much out of this draft as possible. There should be some good picks available throughout the 20s.

you really dont like players that can shoot do you? Ball, Hampton, Maxey. I dont think Ball is a complete bust, but i wouldnt pay the price required to go get him. Hampton couldnt hit the side of a barn standing next to it. as for Poku, he would need to stay overseason for 2+ years developing that body.

I just like the idea of guys that could be starters in this league, or in the case of Ball a top player, maybe, he has A LOT of projection to get there, but it is possible.
Hampton's shot is fine, frankly i doubt he makes it to 15. Lewis looks good. Maxey's is a little worrisome, a little low like Fultz. Hayes is a very good shooter, amongst the other things he does very well. Poku's shot is ok, and he's so tall that it compensates for form issues.

I just hope we don't draft someone that can only do one thing like shoot, like Nesmith, as so many around here suggest. I don't think they will they are better than that.
We can find plenty of back of the rotation 3 point shooters for pennies on the dollar. Or take a shooter only in the 2nd round.

[tiderulz]

Draft scenarios:
Best: Somehow we were able to trade up to take Lamelo Ball. I don't think we have the ammo to get to number one, BUT if for some reason Minnesota didn't take Ball, and I believe they have to, if we could get something done with GS. I loathe the idea of Wiggins and 3 years of his contract and service, but I think Ball would be worth it. 6'7" guys who can pass at a very high level excel in this league. If the shooting and defense improve we are talking about a truly elite player.

Pretty, pretty, pretty good: If we can find someone wanting to move down, and pick up Hayes. It seems increasingly unlikely, that A. he will slip AND B. we would be able to move up to a slot we could select him.

Good:
Stay at 15 and just pick who ever falls. I hope it is Hampton, but Lewis or Maxey, Anthony, Green, would be good as well.

Really growing on me, but not sure of how good/bad it is. Take Poku at 15. I don't think he is a 4, I think of him as a huge SF. Could you imagine a future line up, that features Poku, Isaac, and Bamba, all of which are able to knock down 3's, and are about 7'? I think Isaac/Okeke would be able to play defense against the better 3s in the league. The idea of Poku acting as a secondary playmaker from the wing is really interesting.

A little later, depending on who we select first, making a trade back into the first to either select Bane, Flynn, Hughes, or Mcdaniels. Try to get as much out of this draft as possible. There should be some good picks available throughout the 20s.

you really dont like players that can shoot do you? Ball, Hampton, Maxey. I dont think Ball is a complete bust, but i wouldnt pay the price required to go get him. Hampton couldnt hit the side of a barn standing next to it. as for Poku, he would need to stay overseason for 2+ years developing that body.

I just like the idea of guys that could be starters in this league, or in the case of Ball a top player, maybe, he has A LOT of projection to get there, but it is possible.
Hampton's shot is fine, frankly i doubt he makes it to 15. Lewis looks good. Maxey's is a little worrisome, a little low like Fultz. Hayes is a very good shooter, amongst the other things he does very well. Poku's shot is ok, and he's so tall that it compensates for form issues.

I just hope we don't draft someone that can only do one thing like shoot, like Nesmith, as so many around here suggest. I don't think they will they are better than that.
We can find plenty of back of the rotation 3 point shooters for pennies on the dollar. Or take a shooter only in the 2nd round.

Hampton's shot is fine? every scouting report talks about his bad shooting. very athletic player, bad outside shooter. and if you cant shoot, you arent going to be a starter for long.

[MaKiaVeLi7]

Just asking, why isn't Deni Avdija entertained as a viable option more often in this draft thread?
The guy is experienced and young at the same time and it seems like he brings a lot to table with his skillset. He looks like a good replacement if Gordon were to be traded soon.
He's projected to be picked somewhere in the 3-6 range.
Guys, I'm trying to understand what's your opinion of him, excuse me if he's been discussed here before. I've found separate comments here and there and find it odd he's not talked about more here since there is still a chance to move up in the draft after all. Can he be a darkhorse in this draft or you think he is not going to move the needle for us?

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[jonbob17]

you really dont like players that can shoot do you? Ball, Hampton, Maxey. I dont think Ball is a complete bust, but i wouldnt pay the price required to go get him. Hampton couldnt hit the side of a barn standing next to it. as for Poku, he would need to stay overseason for 2+ years developing that body.

I just like the idea of guys that could be starters in this league, or in the case of Ball a top player, maybe, he has A LOT of projection to get there, but it is possible.
Hampton's shot is fine, frankly i doubt he makes it to 15. Lewis looks good. Maxey's is a little worrisome, a little low like Fultz. Hayes is a very good shooter, amongst the other things he does very well. Poku's shot is ok, and he's so tall that it compensates for form issues.

I just hope we don't draft someone that can only do one thing like shoot, like Nesmith, as so many around here suggest. I don't think they will they are better than that.
We can find plenty of back of the rotation 3 point shooters for pennies on the dollar. Or take a shooter only in the 2nd round.

Hampton's shot is fine? every scouting report talks about his bad shooting. very athletic player, bad outside shooter. and if you cant shoot, you arent going to be a starter for long.

40% of the Magic starters just snorted laughing. Hampton shot has always looked ok (maybe a little low but smooth) and working with Penny Hardaway and Mike Miller for the whole summer seems to have really paid off. He has things you can't teach in size and athleticism. Ideal combo guard.
The ultra-athletic kids in AAU can just get to the basket at will, and they don't spend time on the other more skilled (training) based areas. Now he knows he has to take care of that.

[j_n]

Just asking, why isn't Deni Avdija entertained as a viable option more often in this draft thread?
The guy is experienced and young at the same time and it seems like he brings a lot to table with his skillset. He looks like a good replacement if Gordon were to be traded soon.
He's projected to be picked somewhere in the 3-6 range.
Guys, I'm trying to understand what's your opinion of him, excuse me if he's been discussed here before. I've found separate comments here and there and find it odd he's not talked about more here since there is still a chance to move up in the draft after all. Can he be a darkhorse in this draft or you think he is not going to move the needle for us?

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That's my dream scenario in this draft, Avdija could be a great fit here starting at the three, he is very good at cutting, moving without the ball and passing, so he will be a good addition next to vuc and fultz.

[IllMagic04]

I just like the idea of guys that could be starters in this league, or in the case of Ball a top player, maybe, he has A LOT of projection to get there, but it is possible.
Hampton's shot is fine, frankly i doubt he makes it to 15. Lewis looks good. Maxey's is a little worrisome, a little low like Fultz. Hayes is a very good shooter, amongst the other things he does very well. Poku's shot is ok, and he's so tall that it compensates for form issues.

I just hope we don't draft someone that can only do one thing like shoot, like Nesmith, as so many around here suggest. I don't think they will they are better than that.
We can find plenty of back of the rotation 3 point shooters for pennies on the dollar. Or take a shooter only in the 2nd round.

Hampton's shot is fine? every scouting report talks about his bad shooting. very athletic player, bad outside shooter. and if you cant shoot, you arent going to be a starter for long.

40% of the Magic starters just snorted laughing. Hampton shot has always looked ok (maybe a little low but smooth) and working with Penny Hardaway and Mike Miller for the whole summer seems to have really paid off. He has things you can't teach in size and athleticism. Ideal combo guard.
The ultra-athletic kids in AAU can just get to the basket at will, and they don't spend time on the other more skilled (training) based areas. Now he knows he has to take care of that.

I hear what your saying. The thing Ive heard it all before. X player who cant shoot shows video in a gym where all of a sudden he can shoot. It very rarely works out. Then when I hear he's re working his form thats even more of a red flag. Id rather roll the dice on someone who has already shown the ability to make shots in actual basketball games. Hampton might turn out to be good. Im just not willing to gamble on another non shooter. If Terry, Cole, and Kira Lewis are all off the board then Hampton or Maxey are probally the next 2 Id look at depending on who else fell.

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[KillMonger]

I like Nesmith but his game is a little robotic for my taste. He's not a smooth athlete. This obviously has ZERO to do with him being a good NBA player. Just personal preference. I think Vassell's defensive instincts are on another level though, imo.

i think vassell is even more robotic than nesmith, real boring offensive skills and an undeveloped body which hurts on the defensive end 1 on 1 when a player is bigger than he is....Nesmith already has the nba body and he has a bit more tools in his bag offensively so he doesn't have to have every single shot created for him...his weakness is the defensive end but there is enough there to work with.... not expecting Nesmith to be dpoy as a rookie nor vassell

Literally just pulled up their scouting reports to see what I missed about Vessell...

Neismith

Weaknesses: Body of work is not robust as he did not sustain his breakout season for more than 14 games, and missed nearly all of conference play. He also did not shoot at the same clip as a freshman (33.7% from 3) … Lacks great vision and passing ability, granted a lot of the offensive weight was put on his shoulders at Vanderbilt … Somewhat robotic and stiff … Not the most fluid of athletes.

Vassell

Smooth athlete with a well-rounded game.
Moves exceptionally well without the ball.
Has very good range and takes quality shots.
Versatile and impactful defender.

Vassell was one of the best transition finisher in all of college basketball last season and ranked in the top 94 percentile and converted nearly 71% of his fast break attempts.. He’s a smooth athlete that just glides down the court and covers so much ground with his long strides.. He has good body control What’s crazy is, Vassell often creates and starts his own personal fast breaks on the defensive end with his excellent defensive instincts and energy, but that’s a totally different topic…

I mean.. I haven't once read anything that says Vassell is anything other than a smooth athlete. On the flip I only found one SR that agrees with me on AN. Fluidity aside AN is more one dimensional on offense imo. He's literally a catch and shoot player only and not nearly as good defensively. You can bulk a guy up, but you can't teach them defensive instincts like Vessell has so Im not that worried about his body. I think he has a more well rounded offensive game.

i go off what i see not stats, like you said before....preference....there are two big problems with vassell and that's his strength and his lack of a quick first step/explosion.... his lack of a quick first step generally means that to overcome it you have to be crafty and at least have some shake to your game to get by defenders....he possesses none of that.....which leads to problem number two his lack of strength, i noticed that a lot of times when he drives to the cup he drifts left or to the right of the baskets avoiding contact...

when you see the film it's not hard to see why, any kind of bump or contact at or near the rim knocks him right off his equilibrium pretty much making any shot he attempted stray off it's mark so in this respect having a developed body and strength helps...And if he's having issues with this on the college level it's only going to be compounded on in the league...At the end of the day i see both vassell and nesmith as two sides of the same coin.....vassell is a 3&D who is more D than 3.....and Nesmith is more 3 than D....i guess it really goes down to preference