Suggs’ extension

[eyriq]

Suggs is gonna get $20M+.

Franz is gonna get $40M+

Paolo is gonna get $50M+

Cole's extension was such a blunder.

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

[basketballRob]

If Suggs gets a nine figure deal then Weltman should immediately be fired.

5yr/100m with team option on the last year? Im down.

McDaniels isnt really comparable, he is the best wing defender for the best defense in the league on a team that is 32-14. Mcdaniels is not injury prone, is 6-10 with a seven feet plus wingspan and can guard every position on the floor. Mcdaniels is basically Isaac if Isaac would stay healthy and that is STILL probably an overpay for a guy who averages 10 points.

Suggs is a wing-only defender who frequently overextends himself and ignores his own physical and athletic limitations on the court, leading to injury. Our team has the 5th ranked defense and is 2 games above .500.

Suggs doesn't have the physical tools of Mcdaniels and is not the same level of defender.

This doesn't surprise me to be having this debate with the same posters who thought Austin Reaves would get $100M+ in the offseason and instead ended up getting basically spot on what I thought his value was.

McDaniels' defensive numbers aren't really any better than Franz the last time I checked.

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[p0peye]

Suggs is gonna get $20M+.

Franz is gonna get $40M+

Paolo is gonna get $50M+

Cole's extension was such a blunder.

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

[basketballRob]

Franz defensive rating 108.7, McDaniels 111.6. Franz +1.9 defensive epm, McDaniels +2.1.

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[eyriq]

Suggs is gonna get $20M+.

Franz is gonna get $40M+

Paolo is gonna get $50M+

Cole's extension was such a blunder.

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

My counter is that we've been collecting assets and hoping they develop. It's like collecting lottery tickets and hoping some are winners.

Once they reach maturity you start focusing on surrounding them with role players and a system that is fitted to the core. We aren't there yet but that money is going to indicate the transition to team building vs asset collection and player development.

[p0peye]

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

My counter is that we've been collecting assets and hoping they develop. It's like collecting lottery tickets and hoping some are winners.

Once they reach maturity you start focusing on surrounding them with role players and a system that is fitted to the core. We aren't there yet but that money is going to indicate the transition to team building vs asset collection and player development.

We've got two that panned out pretty fast, we don't need more and if we did have them - we couldn't afford to keep them or properly develop them. Team building time has crept up on us.

[SKYN]

Suggs is gonna get $20M+.

Franz is gonna get $40M+

Paolo is gonna get $50M+

Cole's extension was such a blunder.

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

The only thing helping me think that is hoping Weltman can make one critical move at the trade deadline to fix our backcourt. We need a star guard. Nothing else will really work.

[eyriq]

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

My counter is that we've been collecting assets and hoping they develop. It's like collecting lottery tickets and hoping some are winners.

Once they reach maturity you start focusing on surrounding them with role players and a system that is fitted to the core. We aren't there yet but that money is going to indicate the transition to team building vs asset collection and player development.

We've got two that panned out pretty fast, we don't need more and if we did have them - we couldn't afford to keep them or properly develop them. Team building time has crept up on us.

Yeah, you're not wrong. A strong case could have been made that we should start team building last off-season BUT that would have ignored what Suggs became this season. Hard to make the call on when to flip the switch from a future value focus to current value focus and team building.

I think this off-season is when it gets real, if not this deadline. AB and Jett might not get clear paths to PT and development as a result but I feel like they were hedge bets against Suggs. Suggs clicking is huge for this team. The core is identified.

[Skybox]

My counter is that we've been collecting assets and hoping they develop. It's like collecting lottery tickets and hoping some are winners.

Once they reach maturity you start focusing on surrounding them with role players and a system that is fitted to the core. We aren't there yet but that money is going to indicate the transition to team building vs asset collection and player development.

We've got two that panned out pretty fast, we don't need more and if we did have them - we couldn't afford to keep them or properly develop them. Team building time has crept up on us.

Yeah, you're not wrong. A strong case could have been made that we should start team building last off-season BUT that would have ignored what Suggs became this season. Hard to make the call on when to flip the switch from a future value focus to current value focus and team building.

I think this off-season is when it gets real, if not this deadline. AB and Jett might not get clear paths to PT and development as a result but I feel like they were hedge bets against Suggs. Suggs clicking is huge for this team. The core is identified.

with all respect, I'm a big fan of Suggs...but what has he "become" really? He's really impactful. His energy is amazing...but he's far from a really special player (yet?). 12.5 pts, 2.1 fta's, 3.3 rebs, 2.4 apg. Great, maybe elite on-ball defender. Definitely some homer shades on. He's definitely capable of being a very important part of a really good starting lineup...if he's paired with a REAL scoring guard.

[eyriq]

We've got two that panned out pretty fast, we don't need more and if we did have them - we couldn't afford to keep them or properly develop them. Team building time has crept up on us.

Yeah, you're not wrong. A strong case could have been made that we should start team building last off-season BUT that would have ignored what Suggs became this season. Hard to make the call on when to flip the switch from a future value focus to current value focus and team building.

I think this off-season is when it gets real, if not this deadline. AB and Jett might not get clear paths to PT and development as a result but I feel like they were hedge bets against Suggs. Suggs clicking is huge for this team. The core is identified.

with all respect, I'm a big fan of Suggs...but what has he "become" really? He's really impactful. His energy is amazing...but he's far from a really special player (yet?). 12.5 pts, 2.1 fta's, 3.3 rebs, 2.4 apg. Great, maybe elite on-ball defender. Definitely some homer shades on. He's definitely capable of being a very important part of a really good starting lineup...if he's paired with a REAL scoring guard.

I think what geeks me out is 40 3P% and 99th percentile defense. That alone is an elite 3&D player. But he's also showing growth scoring around the rim and as a secondary ball handler. His upside as a 3 level scorer with all NBA defense is exciting.

[The-Stallion70]

If we overvalue our talent and pay Suggs a nine figure deal and Franz a full supermax then the Magic will pigeonhole themselves into being a very mediocre team.

[Residual-Heat]

Franz defensive rating 108.7, McDaniels 111.6. Franz +1.9 defensive epm, McDaniels +2.1.

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McDaniels is a great defender (aside from rebounding), and a better one than Franz. Colbini is right, Mcdaniels is a good reference. I mentioned him earlier in the thread too.

That being said, i do think the Wolves slightly overpaid for him (shouldve been closer to 20-24 mill/yr IMO). Surely they were hoping for more of a jump from him this season. I am higher on Suggs than McDaniels. I think Suggs has more offensive potential, but also injury concerns. So if we can get Suggs for 20 mill/yr I would let him sign the contract ASAP.

[JoshuaPotter]

Yeah, you're not wrong. A strong case could have been made that we should start team building last off-season BUT that would have ignored what Suggs became this season. Hard to make the call on when to flip the switch from a future value focus to current value focus and team building.

I think this off-season is when it gets real, if not this deadline. AB and Jett might not get clear paths to PT and development as a result but I feel like they were hedge bets against Suggs. Suggs clicking is huge for this team. The core is identified.

with all respect, I'm a big fan of Suggs...but what has he "become" really? He's really impactful. His energy is amazing...but he's far from a really special player (yet?). 12.5 pts, 2.1 fta's, 3.3 rebs, 2.4 apg. Great, maybe elite on-ball defender. Definitely some homer shades on. He's definitely capable of being a very important part of a really good starting lineup...if he's paired with a REAL scoring guard.

I think what geeks me out is 40 3P% and 99th percentile defense. That alone is an elite 3&D player. But he's also showing growth scoring around the rim and as a secondary ball handler. His upside as a 3 level scorer with all NBA defense is exciting.

I am settling into the idea that this is Suggs floor now. We got elite defense, good shooting to spread the floor and he technically still isn't done cooking yet.

He still has enough of ceiling to imagine him as our 3rd offensive option. If he doesn't make it, that's fine. He will be paid for his 3&D ability.

We still have Black and Jett deep into the oven.

[The-Stallion70]

Whatever Bruce Brown got, that's basically what Suggs should get.

[Skybox]

Whatever Bruce Brown got, that's basically what Suggs should get.

Bruce Brown is a good comp...but his recent deal is a complete mirage. He got overpaid on a short-term deal with a TO because IND had to spend up to the minimum payroll...like us "overpaying" for Jeff Green which absolutely didn't matter - it's like the money was sitting on the table.

[Knightro]

Whatever Bruce Brown got, that's basically what Suggs should get.

Bruce Brown got $22.5M AAV which would be 4/90 over a long-term deal for Suggs.

But it's also likely Brown got a higher AAV than he would have on a longer deal because he was willing to take a short deal.

[thelead]

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[Rainwater]

Suggs is gonna get $20M+.

Franz is gonna get $40M+

Paolo is gonna get $50M+

Cole's extension was such a blunder.

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

I also want a move to be made but I think people also need to realize this team is still a very young team and the rebuild just happened 3 years ago. So I wouldn’t say the front office are incapable of building around the young guys, they barely had the opportunity to do so. Paolo was just drafted last year, lol.

[p0peye]

Reality hits hard, man. 40% of rotations turn over every season, on average. The team being built around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo is going to look very different than it does today.

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

I also want a move to be made but I think people also need to realize this team is still a very young team and the rebuild just happened 3 years ago. So I wouldn’t say the front office are incapable of building around the young guys, they barely had the opportunity to do so. Paolo was just drafted last year, lol.

No, Paolo was drafted in 2022. They had opportunity to trade or sign better fitting players in offseason, when we knew what we have in Paolo and Franz, as well as their superpowers and growth areas. They have an opportunity now to make trades to improve role players around them before Feb 9th trade deadline.

[Rainwater]

We're incapable of building a team around them while they are on rookie deals, what makes you think it'll get better when three of them are making 85% of the salary cap?

This season we have spent ~24.5M on those three and 106M on rest of crap we have on the roster.

I also want a move to be made but I think people also need to realize this team is still a very young team and the rebuild just happened 3 years ago. So I wouldn’t say the front office are incapable of building around the young guys, they barely had the opportunity to do so. Paolo was just drafted last year, lol.

No, Paolo was drafted in 2022. They had opportunity to trade or sign better fitting players in offseason, when we knew what we have in Paolo and Franz, as well as their superpowers and growth areas. They have an opportunity now to make trades to improve role players around them before Feb 9th trade deadline.

Sorry for the confusion but when I mean he was drafted last season I mean to say he was a rookie last season. Most teams are not building contenders in two years. And Most knew that Paolo and Franz would be great but most didn’t expect the magic to be this good. Hell, most had the magic with a losing record but I doubt that will be the case now. I just feel like the rapid success the Magic have gotten have Magic fans believing that the rebuild process is done when really it’s still in its infancy.