Why can't Banchero uplift this team like Franz could?

[89Magicfan]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

I wouldn’t say he’s the MOST iimpactful players on the team. He is ONE of the more impactful players on our team and my whole point is this thread is stupid and we need healthy players back.

[ogmagicfan]

Can we rename this thread "Elephant in the room, Paolo Banchero"?

Might as well get some good luck outta this overreaction

[Optimus_Steel]

Its very frustrating right now but got to step back a bit. Paolo and Franz are 1A/1B and it’s not clear which one is the 1A. Depends on how the game is going or matchup. They are both All NBA caliber players and haven’t started their max contracts yet. We are also depleted and this surely taking a toll over time as more guys go down. We are also the worst 3 pt shooting team and a historically level bad according to our resident statistician. We do have assets to address this but as frustrating as it is now we cant panic as we are not ready to win a title yet. It will come. We need healthy players back in the short term and staying healthy in the 2nd half.

[ibraheim718]

Pitting teammates against each other makes for a miserable fan experience.. please stop doing it. It's so counterproductive.

[Skybox]

Pitting teammates against each other makes for a miserable fan experience.. please stop doing it. It's so counterproductive.

feel free to skip any unpleasant (to you) conversations...that's kind of the point of forums.

I know I'm irritating a lot of fans, but I'm not down on the organization or where they appear to be headed at all. WTF are you wanting to talk about if there's no space for critiquing, comparing, questioning, etc

Not a whole lot really to talk about that doesn't involve some comparison. When someone says what equates to "I wish Paolo was more of a playmaker-like Franz"...it certainly doesn't have to be taken as an insult to Paolo. I said it and I think Paolo is the superior player, so does every ranking in the world. Tyus Jones is way better at some things than Paolo - but I'm not looking to make that trade.

[drsd]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

And-1

When Banchero is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When F-Wagner is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When Suggs is off of the court, the Magic is exactly the same.

Hard to say that Suggs is having an impact when stats come out like that.

[drsd]

Why can't Banchero uplift this team like Franz could?

Not sure if the answer to this question has been posed. But let me take a stab.

When Banchero went down, F-Wagner has Suggs, M-Wagner, and Bitadze still on the court.
With Banchero in and F-Wagner out, there is also no Suggs, M-Wagner, or Bitadze.

Banchero is playing without 4 of Orlando's top-5 scorers (he being the other).

[eyriq]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

And-1

When Banchero is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When F-Wagner is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When Suggs is off of the court, the Magic is exactly the same.

Hard to say that Suggs is having an impact when stats come out like that.

That's all I'm saying. He's definitely a core player in terms of explaining our performance but the drop off from Franz/Paolo to Suggs in impact is huge.

[dsg2021]

Missed an opportunity with the Thread Title

[BadMofoPimp]

Magic struggled for a few games when Paolo first went out and Franz was lead, so I expected struggles until the team gets the new chemistry.

Thing is our offense and spacing are even worse now with Goga starting and no Mo. I think Management will try to make a trade to make up for the loss of Mo.

I'm not sure this group will have much of a chance to develop chemistry.

Vooch could still provem all wrong!

[Last Guardian]

I'm sorry if its already being stated but I don't want to read everything. This is a very silly conversation imo.

1. Franz team struggled initially as well
2. Franz had a bit more help than Paolo currently does (some would say a lot more help).
3. Franz wasn't recovering from an injury that caused him to miss 30+ games or had a minutes restriction when Paolo went down

This is hardly a 1 to 1 comparison.

[VFX]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

And-1

When Banchero is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When F-Wagner is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When Suggs is off of the court, the Magic is exactly the same.

Hard to say that Suggs is having an impact when stats come out like that.

Both of you are wrong.
Confidently wrong.

Suggs provides what doesn’t show up in the box score. That requires watching the games and using common sense.

[drsd]

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

And-1

When Banchero is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When F-Wagner is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When Suggs is off of the court, the Magic is exactly the same.

Hard to say that Suggs is having an impact when stats come out like that.

Both of you are wrong.
Confidently wrong.

Suggs provides what doesn’t show up in the box score. That requires watching the games and using common sense.

We are wrong about quoting statistical box-score facts? All we are discussing is on/off numbers.

[VFX]

And-1

When Banchero is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When F-Wagner is off of the court, the Magic is worse empirically.
When Suggs is off of the court, the Magic is exactly the same.

Hard to say that Suggs is having an impact when stats come out like that.

Both of you are wrong.
Confidently wrong.

Suggs provides what doesn’t show up in the box score. That requires watching the games and using common sense.

We are wrong about quoting statistical box-score facts? All we are discussing is on/off numbers.

Which numbers are you referencing?

This season playing point guard without Franz and Paolo?
Last season as a third option playing SG with all team defense honors?

The problem with being a human chat gpt poster, reciting box score statistics, is that you aren’t adding context to anything.

I’m going to bow out of this tard thread. It’s attracting stupid takes and making me lose respect for people with otherwise ok posting history.

[SOUL]

Sometimes you just need them dawgs

[RookieStar]

Sometimes you just need them dawgs

Didnt Goga say they call suggs a wolf?

[The-Stallion70]

Is Banchero really better than Franz? 10 points on 4-16? Here comes the excuses.

[KillMonger]

Is Banchero really better than Franz? 10 points on 4-16? Here comes the excuses.

Franz is our best player but doesn't quite have the same mentality that paolo has.....that had to come with time but recently we've seen a more alpha franz.....but are you really using this stretch considering the context as an indictment on Paolo? really? or are you just curious?

[Rainwater]

Are people forgetting the much easier run of teams Franz faced? He got to beat up on a lot of broken and depleted teams like Pelicans 3rd string, Philly 3 times, Washington, Charlotte twice, Brooklyn twice, Detroit, Chicago - and this was when most of them had sub .500 records.

Paolo has faced Milwaukee twice and Boston, with a much more depleted team than Franz had, which is akin to Franz’s first 4 games against CLE, OKC, DAL and IND. Wanna know Franz’s netrtg over those games? -8.3 Paolo over the last 4 games is -9.3. Both bad results for both from playing against elite teams with injury depleted teams.

Like then, we just need to give it time.

Please stop making sense, this thread doesn't deserve it, lol.

[drsd]

Which numbers are you referencing?

There is a larger narrative on F-Wagner on Banchero/Suggs off; Banchero on F-Wagner/Suggs off, etc. But to keep it simple:

Banchero's plus/minus in 10-games played is plus-37 (i.e. +3.7 ppg)
F-Wagner's plus/minus in 25-games played is plus-191 (i.e. +7.6 ppg)

Suggs' plus minus in 33 games played is minus-88 (i.e. -2.7 ppg)

I am guessing you will say, "well plus minus isn't a real stat". Positional stuff, etc. Fine.
But statistically, Orlando is worse when Suggs is ON of the court and better when F-Wagner and Banchero are ON the court. Those are objective facts.