FIRE WELTMAN

[pepe1991]

Same scenario like the 57 win OKC? Same scenario like the 57 win okc with open cap space next summer? Same scenario as the 57 win OKC who get a elite player like Chet back for free the next season? Same sneraio as the 57 win OKC with more picks than 70% of the leaque combined as future asset to get cheap players or to do any trade they want?

No, that's not the same scenario.

This is most epic part of all this.
OKC traded their former 6th overall pick for 30+ years old role player because it fitted their vision, they signed starter from other playoff team.
They won 57-58 games last year AND made moves after passing first round of playoffs and playing 7 games to eventual finalist.

Magic lost in first round to a team without starting C, backup PF who lost in very next round, signed one low usage 3 and D player because "championship pedigree" , ignored guy plays same position and role as Suggs, resigned two most injury prone players from 2017 draft and called a year.
Midway through next year team is falling apart and we learn our Front office does not engage in trade talks, and most of a league views them as awkward goofballs.

Also isn't it fitting how same people who bring injuries as excuse, but bring OKC as defending point in very next sentence tend to "forget" how OKC lost Chet Holmgren, their second best player for 40 games and didn't used that as excuse? Hmm... interesting

that’s actually true.

But okc also has a mvp caliber cornerstone already. Not to mention, a treasure trove of assets.

OKC is already in the 6th year of the rebuild. Took them a while to reach this point as well. This is like our third/fourth year. Y’all have to relax.

Obviously, no moves during the deadline don’t make sense. But at the same time, you have to look at the mirror and ask yourself is it worth it to give those assets, when at best we’re just gonna be a second round team. We don’t even have a player playing at an mvp level.

The best of the best wins when they are around 25-28 years old. Even Tatum is 26, when he won his first ring. Kobe had shaq who was already at the peak of his career already. It is unrealistic to go all in and make a big splash at this point, tbh.

Slowly acquiring pieces around Franz and Paolo, sure, but, if what weltman says is true that teams are squeezing assets since we are on a losing streak, then it is not worth it.

Also, we’ve really been bugged by injuries this season.

Hell they are.

You should ask yourself will those assets be any more valuable in offseason than they are now.
Jett Howard can't unglue his as** from bench of mediocre team, how will he be any more valuable later?

Nuggets pick held more value before season even started.

Kobe was 21 when he won first title.
Tatum went to first finals at age of 23.
Lebron went to first finals at age of 22.

There is no "slowly adding talent around Paolo" if you know they exit their rookie deals, as soon as next year ( Franz) and Paolo year later.

We aren't even as injuried as Knicks last year. It's just pile of excuses to sit on hands.
We already went through this BS in 2020. Just bunch of excuses why to do nothing.

[fendilim]

This is most epic part of all this.
OKC traded their former 6th overall pick for 30+ years old role player because it fitted their vision, they signed starter from other playoff team.
They won 57-58 games last year AND made moves after passing first round of playoffs and playing 7 games to eventual finalist.

Magic lost in first round to a team without starting C, backup PF who lost in very next round, signed one low usage 3 and D player because "championship pedigree" , ignored guy plays same position and role as Suggs, resigned two most injury prone players from 2017 draft and called a year.
Midway through next year team is falling apart and we learn our Front office does not engage in trade talks, and most of a league views them as awkward goofballs.

Also isn't it fitting how same people who bring injuries as excuse, but bring OKC as defending point in very next sentence tend to "forget" how OKC lost Chet Holmgren, their second best player for 40 games and didn't used that as excuse? Hmm... interesting

that’s actually true.

But okc also has a mvp caliber cornerstone already. Not to mention, a treasure trove of assets.

OKC is already in the 6th year of the rebuild. Took them a while to reach this point as well. This is like our third/fourth year. Y’all have to relax.

Obviously, no moves during the deadline don’t make sense. But at the same time, you have to look at the mirror and ask yourself is it worth it to give those assets, when at best we’re just gonna be a second round team. We don’t even have a player playing at an mvp level.

The best of the best wins when they are around 25-28 years old. Even Tatum is 26, when he won his first ring. Kobe had shaq who was already at the peak of his career already. It is unrealistic to go all in and make a big splash at this point, tbh.

Slowly acquiring pieces around Franz and Paolo, sure, but, if what weltman says is true that teams are squeezing assets since we are on a losing streak, then it is not worth it.

Also, we’ve really been bugged by injuries this season.

Hell they are.

You should ask yourself will those assets be any more valuable in offseason than they are now.
Jett Howard can't unglue his as** from bench of mediocre team, how will he be any more valuable later?

Nuggets pick held more value before season even started.

Kobe was 21 when he won first title.
Tatum went to first finals at age of 23.
Lebron went to first finals at age of 22.

There is no "slowly adding talent around Paolo" if you know they exit their rookie deals, as soon as next year ( Franz) and Paolo year later.

We aren't even as injuried as Knicks last year. It's just pile of excuses to sit on hands.
We already went through this BS in 2020. Just bunch of excuses why to do nothing.

Yeah, we were a better team that year, but they already had a franchise cornerstone (SGA) who was only the same age as Franz and Paolo this year. Lol


In 2021-2022 franz and suggs were just a year away removed from college. Paolo was still in college. Sga was already in his 4th year. Lol

Sga was already in his 4th year then.

Like I said, Kobe had shaq in his first title.
Tatum and Brown were already in their 4th and 5th year respectively. So was Lebron, who had a walk in the park in the weak East, at that time.

Timeline is important.

The end goal is to win the finals, not just to make the Finals. Look at the Cavs during Lebron’s first sitint. The goal is to have a sustainable winning team. Its not just acquiring talent, but also have to consider the financials and fit as well.

[pepe1991]

that’s actually true.

But okc also has a mvp caliber cornerstone already. Not to mention, a treasure trove of assets.

OKC is already in the 6th year of the rebuild. Took them a while to reach this point as well. This is like our third/fourth year. Y’all have to relax.

Obviously, no moves during the deadline don’t make sense. But at the same time, you have to look at the mirror and ask yourself is it worth it to give those assets, when at best we’re just gonna be a second round team. We don’t even have a player playing at an mvp level.

The best of the best wins when they are around 25-28 years old. Even Tatum is 26, when he won his first ring. Kobe had shaq who was already at the peak of his career already. It is unrealistic to go all in and make a big splash at this point, tbh.

Slowly acquiring pieces around Franz and Paolo, sure, but, if what weltman says is true that teams are squeezing assets since we are on a losing streak, then it is not worth it.

Also, we’ve really been bugged by injuries this season.

Hell they are.

You should ask yourself will those assets be any more valuable in offseason than they are now.
Jett Howard can't unglue his as** from bench of mediocre team, how will he be any more valuable later?

Nuggets pick held more value before season even started.

Kobe was 21 when he won first title.
Tatum went to first finals at age of 23.
Lebron went to first finals at age of 22.

There is no "slowly adding talent around Paolo" if you know they exit their rookie deals, as soon as next year ( Franz) and Paolo year later.

We aren't even as injuried as Knicks last year. It's just pile of excuses to sit on hands.
We already went through this BS in 2020. Just bunch of excuses why to do nothing.

Yeah, we were a better team that year, but they already had a franchise cornerstone (SGA) who was only the same age as Franz and Paolo this year. Lol


In 2021-2022 franz and suggs were just a year away removed from college. Paolo was still in college. Sga was already in his 4th year. Lol

Sga was already in his 4th year then.

Like I said, Kobe had shaq in his first title.
Tatum and Brown were already in their 4th and 5th year respectively. So was Lebron, who had a walk in the park in the weak East, at that time.

Timeline is important.

The end goal is to win the finals, not just to make the Finals. Look at the Cavs during Lebron’s first sitint. The goal is to have a sustainable winning team. Its not just acquiring talent, but also have to consider the financials and fit as well.

*checks sustainable winning team*
*checks standings*
26-29

Guess what they aren't right now?
Neither sustainable nor winning team.

Once again, current roster age isn't even top 10 youngest in nba. Guess who is younger? Memphis. OKC etc.

Grizzlies are running around with 2 rookies in starting 5. Two rookies.

We just pile up most bull*** excuses and have some imaginary timeline like there is granted that in some imaginary 2028 championship window will just crack open.
What if Lakers add another top 5 star and close championship window for everybody? Where to go from there? Ooops, wrong timeline, better start new rebuild ?!

[YosemiteSam]

After catching up on this thread I have two thoughts:

1) after a year or so of chill Pepe, old Pepe seems to be back. I’m not sure what was the final straw that broke the camel’s back to have him in his rage voice, but here we are. Honestly I think it makes the board more interesting lol

2) and the way these things work, Mosley is going to have to be fired before Weltman is. You would need a legendary Coach for him to be retained while they replaced management. If ownership determines that a change is needed they will allow Weltman to get another coach first, and then if that doesn’t work he could be fired but first we’re going to have to get through the Mosley era before any change at the Weltman level is considered.

So question: are you guys ready to move on from Mosley at the end of the year if things go as we’ve been discussing?

[fendilim]

Hell they are.

You should ask yourself will those assets be any more valuable in offseason than they are now.
Jett Howard can't unglue his as** from bench of mediocre team, how will he be any more valuable later?

Nuggets pick held more value before season even started.

Kobe was 21 when he won first title.
Tatum went to first finals at age of 23.
Lebron went to first finals at age of 22.

There is no "slowly adding talent around Paolo" if you know they exit their rookie deals, as soon as next year ( Franz) and Paolo year later.

We aren't even as injuried as Knicks last year. It's just pile of excuses to sit on hands.
We already went through this BS in 2020. Just bunch of excuses why to do nothing.

Yeah, we were a better team that year, but they already had a franchise cornerstone (SGA) who was only the same age as Franz and Paolo this year. Lol


In 2021-2022 franz and suggs were just a year away removed from college. Paolo was still in college. Sga was already in his 4th year. Lol

Sga was already in his 4th year then.

Like I said, Kobe had shaq in his first title.
Tatum and Brown were already in their 4th and 5th year respectively. So was Lebron, who had a walk in the park in the weak East, at that time.

Timeline is important.

The end goal is to win the finals, not just to make the Finals. Look at the Cavs during Lebron’s first sitint. The goal is to have a sustainable winning team. Its not just acquiring talent, but also have to consider the financials and fit as well.

*checks sustainable winning team*
*checks standings*
26-29

Guess what they aren't right now?
Neither sustainable nor winning team.

They are certainly not a winning team right now, they are a losing team.

You are also correct in saying that they are not sustainable, you are correct. They are not a sustainable losing team. Lol. The team was like 4th or 5th in the east, without Paolo, and before Franz went down.

How many games have our best players played together this season? Lol

Suggs-Franz-Paolo

[RichCollab]

After catching up on this thread I have two thoughts:

1) after a year or so of chill Pepe, old Pepe seems to be back. I’m not sure what was the final straw that broke the camel’s back to have him in his rage voice, but here we are. Honestly I think it makes the board more interesting lol

2) and the way these things work, Mosley is going to have to be fired before Weltman is. You would need a legendary Coach for him to be retained while they replaced management. If ownership determines that a change is needed they will allow Weltman to get another coach first, and then if that doesn’t work he could be fired but first we’re going to have to get through the Mosley era before any change at the Weltman level is considered.

So question: are you guys ready to move on from Mosley at the end of the year if things go as we’ve been discussing?

Love Mosley but I’m onboard with firing him.

Coaching staff isn’t doing the offense any favors. We need to add offensive coach to replace Mosley or to Augment.

[otownflava21]

Read on Twitter

Would much rather have peak Orlando Bol Bol than WCJ

[pepe1991]

Yeah, we were a better team that year, but they already had a franchise cornerstone (SGA) who was only the same age as Franz and Paolo this year. Lol


In 2021-2022 franz and suggs were just a year away removed from college. Paolo was still in college. Sga was already in his 4th year. Lol

Sga was already in his 4th year then.

Like I said, Kobe had shaq in his first title.
Tatum and Brown were already in their 4th and 5th year respectively. So was Lebron, who had a walk in the park in the weak East, at that time.

Timeline is important.

The end goal is to win the finals, not just to make the Finals. Look at the Cavs during Lebron’s first sitint. The goal is to have a sustainable winning team. Its not just acquiring talent, but also have to consider the financials and fit as well.

*checks sustainable winning team*
*checks standings*
26-29

Guess what they aren't right now?
Neither sustainable nor winning team.

How many games have our best players played together this season? Lol

Suggs-Franz-Paolo

72 last year. First round exit.
back to: re-evaluate same thing for 3rd year expecting different result. If one of them misses more than 5 games, try again?

[pepe1991]

if you need 82 games of 10 men roster you will be running same team from 1991 -present day, some of them might die in process from natural causes. Including half of fanbase.


it's same fanbase that repeated that 24 years old guy is "basically rookie" to defend Fultz. Where is he now? Basically he is just 3rd year player.

[fendilim]

*checks sustainable winning team*
*checks standings*
26-29

Guess what they aren't right now?
Neither sustainable nor winning team.

How many games have our best players played together this season? Lol

Suggs-Franz-Paolo

72 last year. First round exit.
back to: re-evaluate same thing for 3rd year expecting different result. If one of them misses more than 5 games, try again?

72 last year. How many game did they win last year?

how many have they played this year?

[pepe1991]

How many games have our best players played together this season? Lol

Suggs-Franz-Paolo

72 last year. First round exit.
back to: re-evaluate same thing for 3rd year expecting different result. If one of them misses more than 5 games, try again?

72 last year, 47 wins.

how many have they played this year?

First round exit vs team without starting all star C and bench PF, with healthiest roster in nba

[fendilim]

72 last year. First round exit.
back to: re-evaluate same thing for 3rd year expecting different result. If one of them misses more than 5 games, try again?

72 last year, 47 wins.

how many have they played this year?

First round exit vs team without starting all star C and bench PF, with healthiest roster in nba

Pepe, just answer the question. Lol

[pepe1991]

72 last year, 47 wins.

how many have they played this year?

First round exit vs team without starting all star C and bench PF, with healthiest roster in nba

Pepe, just answer the question. Lol

Fendilim, just answer a question. over past 3 years how many games Banchero, Franz and Suggs played together and what is trash hold for you to make change and when it's enough games to finish evaluation?
100?
500?
1500?

Two decades?

Two and half years

[pepe1991]

Actual numbers:
116 games together
2530 min together
= 60 hours of basketball to evaluate

still not enough i guess? Better make sure no trades are done in next 10 years, you need to see more.

[pepe1991]

After catching up on this thread I have two thoughts:

1) after a year or so of chill Pepe, old Pepe seems to be back. I’m not sure what was the final straw that broke the camel’s back to have him in his rage voice, but here we are. Honestly I think it makes the board more interesting lol

2) and the way these things work, Mosley is going to have to be fired before Weltman is. You would need a legendary Coach for him to be retained while they replaced management. If ownership determines that a change is needed they will allow Weltman to get another coach first, and then if that doesn’t work he could be fired but first we’re going to have to get through the Mosley era before any change at the Weltman level is considered.

So question: are you guys ready to move on from Mosley at the end of the year if things go as we’ve been discussing?

This tread broke my spirit.

[Fortune Teller]

So Franz and Paolo have been back for at least a few weeks now — how are things looking? Is it still impossible to evaluate roster construction because Suggs isn’t back yet? If one player makes that much difference even though your two best players are playing, then you have a serious roster problem. And guess what, Suggs has had one season out of four where he didn’t miss significant time. Everyone pointing to last season as justification for doing nothing to address weaknesses fail to consider that last season was quite possibly an anomaly in terms of: a) health, and b) winning despite being an awful offensive team.

[basketballRob]

Neither PB or Franz are superstars

This is the blinking red warning light that a lot of the "trust the long-term plan" guys don't seem to understand. I think it's been so long since the Magic have had a superstar that they don't remember what it's like to watch one. We don't have an SGA, Wemby, Giannis, Tatum or the like. We have two star players that aren't a natural on-court fit. It's going to take more than Banchero and Wagner to become contenders.

Wonder what we could get for Franz?

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=wagnefr01&p1yrfrom=2025&p1yrto=2025&player_id2=gilgesh01&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Fortune Teller]

After catching up on this thread I have two thoughts:

1) after a year or so of chill Pepe, old Pepe seems to be back. I’m not sure what was the final straw that broke the camel’s back to have him in his rage voice, but here we are. Honestly I think it makes the board more interesting lol

2) and the way these things work, Mosley is going to have to be fired before Weltman is. You would need a legendary Coach for him to be retained while they replaced management. If ownership determines that a change is needed they will allow Weltman to get another coach first, and then if that doesn’t work he could be fired but first we’re going to have to get through the Mosley era before any change at the Weltman level is considered.

So question: are you guys ready to move on from Mosley at the end of the year if things go as we’ve been discussing?

If the choice is between firing Mosley or Jeff, ask yourselves who would have the longer list of suitors if we terminated them? I think Mos would get a head coaching job immediately. I think Jeff would be hoping for a lower level management position in an organization where he knows someone.

[basketballRob]

This thread reminds me of a guy peeing into the wind.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[jonbob17]

To be fair, in the same podcast, they did say that we are in the same scenario (not active in trade deadline) OKC was in LAST YEAR.

Same scenario like the 57 win OKC? Same scenario like the 57 win okc with open cap space next summer? Same scenario as the 57 win OKC who get a elite player like Chet back for free the next season? Same sneraio as the 57 win OKC with more picks than 70% of the leaque combined as future asset to get cheap players or to do any trade they want?

No, that's not the same scenario.

This is most epic part of all this.
OKC traded their former 6th overall pick for 30+ years old role player because it fitted their vision, they signed starter from other playoff team.
They won 57-58 games last year AND made moves after passing first round of playoffs and playing 7 games to eventual finalist.

Magic lost in first round to a team without starting C, backup PF who lost in very next round, signed one low usage 3 and D player because "championship pedigree" , ignored guy plays same position and role as Suggs, resigned two most injury prone players from 2017 draft and called a year.
Midway through next year team is falling apart and we learn our Front office does not engage in trade talks, and most of a league views them as awkward goofballs.

Also isn't it fitting how same people who bring injuries as excuse, but bring OKC as defending point in very next sentence tend to "forget" how OKC lost Chet Holmgren, their second best player for 40 games and didn't used that as excuse? Hmm... interesting

Yah SGA is probably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league. And we've lost our three best players for huge chunks of the season as well as the highest scoring bench player. The Injuries are real. Paolo still aint right.

The Magic and OKC are and have been in very different situations.

If in 2 years, the Magic are ready to compete (finishing at the top of the tables the prior season) Anthony Black still can't shoot, and there is a Alex Caruso type deal out there IN THE OFFSEASON, by all means make the deal.