The Anthony Black dunk tank

[CarraT]

Quick question... Can you give me a player in the last 20 years who didn't look like a functional PG in any point of his career/life actually turn into a PG years later in the NBA?

Because looking at AB he's NEVER looked like a PG to me at any point.

Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Shaun Livingston.

AB played point at Arkansas, was drafted as a point guard, and is being developed as one now. He’s not finished, but the foundation is clear. If you’ve never seen it, that says more about what you're expecting than what he's doing.

Livingston and Lowry played PG in college and both looked legit as PG's right away.

And Holiday averaged 6.5 assists in his second season, while being younger than Black. That’s more than doubling Blacks 3.1 apg in his sophomore season. Per 36 min holiday also was a lot better his first two season.

AB is showing nothing, never did, that he’ll be a PG starter in this league. Handles, shot, quickness. Everything is way too bad.
Don’t argue with him about AB. It’s just nonsense.

[basketballRob]

Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Shaun Livingston.

AB played point at Arkansas, was drafted as a point guard, and is being developed as one now. He’s not finished, but the foundation is clear. If you’ve never seen it, that says more about what you're expecting than what he's doing.

Livingston and Lowry played PG in college and both looked legit as PG's right away.

And Holiday averaged 6.5 assists in his second season, while being younger than Black. That’s more than doubling Blacks 3.1 apg in his sophomore season. Per 36 min holiday also was a lot better his first two season.

AB is showing nothing, never did, that he’ll be a PG starter in this league. Handles, shot, quickness. Everything is way too bad.
Don’t argue with him about AB. It’s just nonsense.

Jrue was 5 months younger than AB in his second season.

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[CarraT]

Livingston and Lowry played PG in college and both looked legit as PG's right away.

And Holiday averaged 6.5 assists in his second season, while being younger than Black. That’s more than doubling Blacks 3.1 apg in his sophomore season. Per 36 min holiday also was a lot better his first two season.

AB is showing nothing, never did, that he’ll be a PG starter in this league. Handles, shot, quickness. Everything is way too bad.
Don’t argue with him about AB. It’s just nonsense.

Jrue was 5 months younger than AB in his second season.

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Well, thanks for accepting the facts I mentioned

[basketballRob]

And Holiday averaged 6.5 assists in his second season, while being younger than Black. That’s more than doubling Blacks 3.1 apg in his sophomore season. Per 36 min holiday also was a lot better his first two season.

AB is showing nothing, never did, that he’ll be a PG starter in this league. Handles, shot, quickness. Everything is way too bad.
Don’t argue with him about AB. It’s just nonsense.

Jrue was 5 months younger than AB in his second season.

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Well, thanks for accepting the facts I mentioned

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=holidjr01&p1yrfrom=2011&p1yrto=2011&player_id2=blackan01&p2yrfrom=2025&p2yrto=2025

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[basketballRob]

I'm surprised that Black was already a better defender than Jrue in his second season.

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[basketballRob]

Black's DBPM was 1.2 this season. Jrue's best season was 1.1.

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[CarraT]

I'm surprised that Black was already a better defender than Jrue in his second season.

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Even if that’s true, does that make him a PG?

[basketballRob]

I'm surprised that Black was already a better defender than Jrue in his second season.

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Even if that’s true, does that make him a PG?

Jrue averaged 2 more assists than Black did per 36, and likely played more PG in his second season due to his height. Black can play more positions and roles.

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[RookieStar]

I'm surprised that Black was already a better defender than Jrue in his second season.

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Even if that’s true, does that make him a PG?

If you go by the nba saying... " you are who you guard"

[CarraT]

I'm surprised that Black was already a better defender than Jrue in his second season.

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Even if that’s true, does that make him a PG?

Jrue averaged 2 more assists than Black did per 36, and likely played more PG in his second season due to his height.

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Not due to his height. Due to his skills.
And he had exactly 50% more assists per 100 possessions. That’s massive.

[basketballRob]

I'm impressed that Jrue was already a plus BPM player in his second season. I hope Black can do that this year.

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[basketballRob]

Even if that’s true, does that make him a PG?

Jrue averaged 2 more assists than Black did per 36, and likely played more PG in his second season due to his height.

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Not due to his height. Due to his skills.
And he had exactly 50% more assists per 100 possessions. That’s massive.

9.6 to 6.4, and Black didn't play PG the whole season.

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[basketballRob]

I'm surprised that Black was already a better defender than Jrue in his second season.

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Even if that’s true, does that make him a PG?

If you go by the nba saying... " you are who you guard"

Black usually guarded the PG.

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[CarraT]

Jrue averaged 2 more assists than Black did per 36, and likely played more PG in his second season due to his height.

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Not due to his height. Due to his skills.
And he had exactly 50% more assists per 100 possessions. That’s massive.

9.6 to 6.4, and Black didn't play PG the whole season.

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9.6 to 6.4 is exactly 50% more, like I said.
And the fact that AB didn’t play PG in a team that’s desperately in need of a PG, so we even started CoJo at end of season and in playoffs, should be another very strong hint that AB will never be funktional PG in this league.
Seriously, this feels like Payton/Fultz discussion in last 10 years

[basketballRob]

Not due to his height. Due to his skills.
And he had exactly 50% more assists per 100 possessions. That’s massive.

9.6 to 6.4, and Black didn't play PG the whole season.

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9.6 to 6.4 is exactly 50% more, like I said.
And the fact that AB didn’t play PG in a team that’s desperately in need of a PG, so we even started CoJo at end of season and in playoffs, should be another very strong hint that AB will never be funktional PG in this league.
Seriously, this feels like Payton/Fultz discussion in last 10 years

We'll see, I think you're wrong.

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[CarraT]

9.6 to 6.4, and Black didn't play PG the whole season.

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9.6 to 6.4 is exactly 50% more, like I said.
And the fact that AB didn’t play PG in a team that’s desperately in need of a PG, so we even started CoJo at end of season and in playoffs, should be another very strong hint that AB will never be funktional PG in this league.
Seriously, this feels like Payton/Fultz discussion in last 10 years

We'll see, I think you're wrong.

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Sure. Everybody is allowed to believe in miracles that never happened before.

[basketballRob]

Haha

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[eyriq]

Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Shaun Livingston.

AB played point at Arkansas, was drafted as a point guard, and is being developed as one now. He’s not finished, but the foundation is clear. If you’ve never seen it, that says more about what you're expecting than what he's doing.

Livingston and Lowry played PG in college and both looked legit as PG's right away.

And Holiday averaged 6.5 assists in his second season, while being younger than Black. That’s more than doubling Blacks 3.1 apg in his sophomore season. Per 36 min holiday also was a lot better his first two season.

AB is showing nothing, never did, that he’ll be a PG starter in this league. Handles, shot, quickness. Everything is way too bad.
Don’t argue with him about AB. It’s just nonsense.

I brought up Jrue as an example of a guy who didn’t have strong point guard signals early but grew into the role over time. He played off-ball at UCLA next to Collison and wasn’t seen as a true PG right away. That’s not the case with AB. He played point in high school, ran it full-time at Arkansas, was drafted as a PG, and is being developed as one now.

[basketballRob]

People can't just allow AB to gradually get better. They get upset and emotional.

https://youtu.be/9FnO3igOkOk?si=96zTd_TrojQZHIvP

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[JF5]

He ran point full-time at Arkansas, was drafted as a point guard, and is being developed as one now. The fact that he’s still learning isn’t some red flag. Point guard is the hardest role to grow into, and he’s only 21. The front office sees the trajectory and they’re backing it.

Quick question... Can you give me a player in the last 20 years who didn't look like a functional PG in any point of his career/life actually turn into a PG years later in the NBA?

Because looking at AB he's NEVER looked like a PG to me at any point.

Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Shaun Livingston.

AB played point at Arkansas, was drafted as a point guard, and is being developed as one now. He’s not finished, but the foundation is clear. If you’ve never seen it, that says more about what you're expecting than what he's doing.

Those guys were all seen as actual PGs before they were drafted. And when they entered the league they looked like PGs. Regardless if they were any good or not at the start of their careers.

On top of that even if those assertions were true it's pretty much impossible to becoming a functional starting PG when you've never had those instincts or abilities in the first place.

This reminds me so much of the Aaron Gordon conversations 7-8 years ago when a few posters thought he'd be a superstar player similar to Paul George or Kawhi Leonard.

Its like a guy built off of pure athleticism and literally one of the worst on ball instincts and statistically one of the worst one on one players in the league was somehow going to have this tremendous offensive leap. Instead this time it's Black and he's being compared to SGA.

The player who was statistically one of the worst offensive players in the league at one point last season. The same player that lowers the Magic's offensive rating to a 97.2 when he starts. The guy who couldn't even usurp a 3rd string back up PG (which they purposely tried to give opportunity to AB) to be the starter is somehow going to be a starting PG.

Ironically, AB to me will end up kind of like AG. But he is definitely 2-3 more years away from being a consistent contributor and somewhat reliable/starting caliber player. He just needs so much more work and playing time this team can't actually invest in him since they're trying to win now.