Hedo All-Star? (Allen replaces Bulter)

[taruky1]

[quote="N4U|Redux"][/quote]

So you are saying that because Allen is playing with Garnett and Pierce he should somehow have a lower shooting percentage? Your argument is ridiculous. Hedo is shooting 44.7, Allen 42.7. Hedo's three-point percentage is 38.5, Allen's 37.1. Hedo outrebounds him and outassists him.

As I've stated before, I am not comparing their career accomplishments. But this is about the 2008 all-star game.

[KingRobb02]

Nash is better than Paul right now...Paul will be better though.

Hornets have Peja, Chandler, West...Not just one offensive force.

David Lee is loved, mostly for his hustle...The kid leaves it all on the floor...Hes also good for a double double when given the minutes and thats with no plays being run for him.

I would take David Lee over any Knicks player based soley on potential and heart.

Kirk Hinrich got his deal because until this season, he was playing out of his mind. He lead the bulls to some 50 win seasons and into the playoffs. He was also logging big minutes on team USA. The kid was earning the pay.

Statement about AK and getting respect in the league i totally agree with you on.

White players not getting respect based on race is total garbage.

Lastly im not trying to defend anyone, but i dont think n4u was the one that made the race comments, correct me if im wrong

First of all, I'm sorry about getting mixed up on who said what. It was 1AM and I had to do a lot of stuff yesterday for the holiday and at work.

Back to the topic, Peja scores 16 PPG on 46% shooting, West scores 19 points on 47% shooting, and Chandler scores a career high 12 on 60% shooting. West was the one I was talking about, but how can you call those other two threats. Meanwhile Nash plays with Amare, who is an all NBA center (23 on 59) Barbosa is good for 17 off the bench, Grant Hill gives them 15, and Bell 12. Up until last week they also had Shawn Marion dropping 16. That is 3 guys who can drop 30 on any given, plus Grant Hill who will give them consistent scoring, and Bell who is a spot up shooter who might get hot. All the Hornets have is David West (beast, but not on Amare's level) and their own overpaid spot up shooter in Peja. Which team would you rather play with?

Other than outside shooting, Paul is much better at every aspect of the game. The simple way to look at it is that Paul's PER is 5 points higher than Nash's and that doesn't take defense into account. Nash plays in a faster offense (more shots), with better players and averages only 1 more assist per game than Paul.

If you consider it a sacrilege for Paul to outrank Nash , get a tape of Feb. 6 Hornets-Suns game and it might be easier to swallow. Paul got the better of Nash in that pairing just like he has every time they have faced this year. 42 points 9 assists 8 steals, against a guy who is supposed to be better (32 points, 12 ast, 10 TO)? The thing that I don't think people realize is that Chris Paul is on pace to beat Allen Iverson's best PER by a full point which will be a new record for small guards. Nash has never even appraoched these numbers (his best is 23.87). I will take Chris Paul today, tomorrow, and five years from now.

You are right that Kirk Hinrich played out of his mind for the Bulls, but he wasn't their leading scorer, he didn't run the offense, the ball didn't go through him in crunch time, and he wasn't the first player most GMs asked for when they called the Bulls for a trade. On top of that, I don't see how he logged big minutes for team USA, when he didn't even make the team.

About the Knicks, if Randolph can give me 25 and 12, and David Lee's ceiling is 10 and 10, all the hustle in the world won't convince me he is better. Lee doesn't have much room for growth which is why he went 30th in the draft. He is a defensive liability, and he has no post offesnse. His motor makes him a monster on the boards and his contract is easier to swallow but, based on production, he isn't the best prospect on the Knicks. If you want to talk upside, Nate Robinson is the best their, and the most clutch performer is Crawford. I love David Lee and the rest of the Florida guys, but I don't see myself getting excited about anyone that teams attack every time they are on the floor.

[karizma87]

I'm not an Allen homer...where the hell did you get that idea?

First off, I'm a Magic fan and I hate the Celtics. And, not simply because of this year either, I've hated them for most of my life that I can remember

Second, I am just not a Hedo homer. I love the guy and think he's great for our team. But, I'm able to be objective about this, something you're evidently not able to do.

Thirdly, I have mentioned why I feel Hedo is not as deserving, both logically and why it probably actually happened. To recap:

1. Allen is a proven all-star player, and for most of his career has been one of the best at his position.

2. Hedo is unproven and plays in a small market, you cannot expect him to get recognition based on half of a season. Unlike you or I, the voters don't obsess over our team. This is the factor that is probalby a huge factor as to why he's not on the team -- not that it's a fair factor.

3. Hedo does not "own" him in places, it's actually a moot point.

4. Stats aren't everything. As stated, Josh SMith, Manu Ginobili, and Jose Calderon should all have made their respective rosters if we're going off of statistics only -- BUT WE'RE NOT.

5. Hedo could arguably have better stats, but that doesn't make him the better player automatically. As stated, other homers bring up the "stats" argument even though stats are easily skewed. I'm pretty damn sure that if Allen were on a team different than the Celtics he'd have better raw stats. That doesn't mean his game has gotten worse from last year though. Furthermore, I do not believe Hedo would produce similarly in Boston where the possessions are much more competitive (Garnett > Dwight, Pierce > Lewis).

6. Anyone who wouldn't trade Hedo for Allen on the basis that Hedo's raw stats this season are better is insane in the membrane (lol). All things considered equal (i.e. age, salary, etc) would you or would you not trade Hedo for Allen if the opportunity arose? I know I would without hesitation.

Do I need to quantify my reasoning any clearer? Do me a favor and just answer the question proposed in #7 and explain your reasoning as to why you wouldn't take Allen for Hedo in a trade.

I'll do you a favor and answert them ALL:
the first few reasons you gave are reasons why hedo got snubbed, and why allen got picked over him...we're talking about who deserves it...
Josh smith plays for the hawks...
Calderon should've been an AS in my view, have you seen the guy play???? amazing assist/TO ratio, the guy is the perfect pg...
Manu, as telented as he is, is a 6th man, and even though probably deserves to be an AS, he doesn't have as much pressure on him to go out and perform. he can just take some nights off, and then come back drop 40 and be a hero.
You keep saying hedo "may have betetr stats, arguebly". NO BUDDY, NOT ARGUEBLY, HE DOES HAVE BETTER STATS PERIOD. I understand you can;'t take stats only to determine who's better but he leads in every freaking category!!! at least use it as a measuring stick.
I don't understand how playing with garnett and pierce, and 30smthng minutes per game is supposed to make you sacrifice your stats...what an idiotic comment.
and all things being equal like salary, age etc. why don't we just have shaq and MJ play in the ASG. they have spectacular careers....you're yet to give me a solid reason buddy, all you do is go around the points...

[drsd]

I cannot recall a thread being as rational as this. Interesting thoughts from many!

[parso15]

This debate is getting more and more absurd...

People arguing that Allen is a proven player should get him the nod
(Folks this is not about the past nor the future just about now!!!)

Other say Hedo didn't get in because of his race? Nonsense...

Some other are going into economic reasons... if this is the reasoning behind Stern's decision then this su$ks big time.

I would love it if only and only the players could vote. I mean forget about jounalists, fans & Stern the players do know each other better than anyone. If you can't impress your fellow players than you don't deserve to be in!!!

There could be simple rules such as not being allowed to vote for themselfs or maybe not within their own team... I know it would never happen but a bit of direct democracy would do the league a ton of good...

[MagicMadness]

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[Typhoon20]

(picture)
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Hah that's brilliant.

I'm guessing it's photoshopped, brilliant nonetheless.

[AdamTheGreek]

Paul>Nash this season as Chris Paul is at the moment MVP.

[N4U|Redux]

That said, are you implying that people who think Hedo should be an all-star are Hedo homers ? People who wouldn't trade Hedo for Allen are considered homers in your eyes ?

No, the defenders of Hedo in this thread either are proven Hedo d*ck suckers (i.e. taruky) or are acting like big time Hedo homers.

I'm actually open to the idea of Hedo being on the all-star team, I'm quantifying the guys who are saying that for all intents and purposes there's no way he should've been left off the team -- they're insanely homertastic.

Hedo could've made it over Allen, and Allen could've made it over Hedo. I happen to feel that Allen was more justified being there, but I'm arguing with a bunch of extremists who think Hedo was snubbed on the ORIGINAL roster, much less this rendition.

[doct3r dr3]

David Stern doesn't care about white people.

[karizma87]

-= original quote snipped =-



No, the defenders of Hedo in this thread either are proven Hedo d*ck suckers (i.e. taruky) or are acting like big time Hedo homers.

I'm actually open to the idea of Hedo being on the all-star team, I'm quantifying the guys who are saying that for all intents and purposes there's no way he should've been left off the team -- they're insanely homertastic.

Hedo could've made it over Allen, and Allen could've made it over Hedo. I happen to feel that Allen was more justified being there, but I'm arguing with a bunch of extremists who think Hedo was snubbed on the ORIGINAL roster, much less this rendition.

watch your mouth hick, you're the one that can't make a point worht a damn. don't call names...

[mhectorgato]

David Stern doesn't care about white people.

[mattyBoi]

I got a funny feeling there will be some P.M.'s floating around...

[Typhoon20]

-= original quote snipped =-



No, the defenders of Hedo in this thread either are proven Hedo d*ck suckers (i.e. taruky) or are acting like big time Hedo homers.

I'm actually open to the idea of Hedo being on the all-star team, I'm quantifying the guys who are saying that for all intents and purposes there's no way he should've been left off the team -- they're insanely homertastic.

Hedo could've made it over Allen, and Allen could've made it over Hedo. I happen to feel that Allen was more justified being there, but I'm arguing with a bunch of extremists who think Hedo was snubbed on the ORIGINAL roster, much less this rendition.

My bad, I guess I misinterpreted your comment.

[N4U|Redux]

watch your mouth hick, you're the one that can't make a point worht a damn. don't call names...

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Not sure where you somehow got that idea, but okay...

[N4U|Redux]

-= original quote snipped =-



My bad, I guess I misinterpreted your comment.

I probably didn't communicate that very clearly.

However, I wasn't debating with people being rational. It's like debating with Al Queda (??) morons, it's difficult to reason with them while appearing to be completely objective because you have to heavily lean on the opposite of what they're stupidly leaning on.

Unlike these people, I understand legitimate reasons for Hedo being left off of the original roster, or even still left off. These people clearly do not -- to them, there is no choice other than for Hedo to be an allstar based on half a season of good play.

[Wayland The Smith]

@N4U|Redux Your opinions are terrible. You can think whatever you want but you shouldn't insult people....

[N4U|Redux]

@N4U|Redux Your opinions are terrible. You can think whatever you want but you shouldn't insult people....

Do me a favor, go back and find my "insults" because I see one throughout this entire thread.

Which was where I called taruky a Hedo d*ck sucker...which is definitely true, and it's been proven time and again. It's almost not an insult either, it's just a fact that he really love Hedo for whatever reason. Kind of like some people really love Carlos here. Put similarly, we're all Dwight d*ck suckers because we're usually pretty homeristic about him.

I also compared them to "Al Queda morons" in their extreme views for which they're completely unwilling to accept any other (portion of an) objective opinion.

Maybe I missed these rogue insults, but I deliberately went and re-read this thread scanning for insults, and that was the only one I found out of pages of my comments. Unless of course, if calling people homers is an insult nowadays. If so, your panties are likely greatly too binded into your ass crack.

EDIT: As far as my terrible opinion goes, it must not be so bad because Hedo was left out of the original team (which people were still pissed about) by some of the greatest minds in the game. I know, I know, we're all smarter than the people that vote for the allstar reserves but I'm just sayin...

I'm done with this thread, but it can be argued in either direction that Hedo should make it in light of all these changes to the roster. He's having a good year, not a great year...he's only having a great year for him. As stated, if the game were based purely off stats and nothing else guys like Manu and Josh Smith are better than most people on the allstar team. People will say they're 6th men and on bad teams respectively, but at that point you just prove there's a multitude of factors into selecting the best team from each conference. Put basically, while Hedo is putting up the better numbers, he is not anywhere near the same talent. Many players put up stats which make them look better than they are, or do not put up stats which indicate their skill (this is partially the region a guy like Josh Smith is left off and Rashweed is included). I understand the allstar game as having the most talent in it, and while Ray is not putting up better numbers this year, he's still more talented. BTW - None of this would even be an argument if Hedo hadn't been playing out of his mind recently.

[taruky1]

@N4U|Redux Your opinions are terrible. You can think whatever you want but you shouldn't insult people....

Do me a favor, go back and find my "insults" because I see one throughout this entire thread.

Which was where I called taruky a Hedo d*ck sucker...which is definitely true, and it's been proven time and again. It's almost not an insult either, it's just a fact that he really love Hedo for whatever reason. Kind of like some people really love Carlos here. Put similarly, we're all Dwight d*ck suckers because we're usually pretty homeristic about him.

I also compared them to "Al Queda morons" in their extreme views for which they're completely unwilling to accept any other (portion of an) objective opinion.

Maybe I missed these rogue insults, but I deliberately went and re-read this thread scanning for insults, and that was the only one I found out of pages of my comments. Unless of course, if calling people homers is an insult nowadays. If so, your panties are likely greatly too binded into your ass crack.

EDIT: As far as my terrible opinion goes, it must not be so bad because Hedo was left out of the original team (which people were still pissed about) by some of the greatest minds in the game. I know, I know, we're all smarter than the people that vote for the allstar reserves but I'm just sayin...

I'm done with this thread, but it can be argued in either direction that Hedo should make it in light of all these changes to the roster. He's having a good year, not a great year...he's only having a great year for him. As stated, if the game were based purely off stats and nothing else guys like Manu and Josh Smith are better than most people on the allstar team. People will say they're 6th men and on bad teams respectively, but at that point you just prove there's a multitude of factors into selecting the best team from each conference. Put basically, while Hedo is putting up the better numbers, he is not anywhere near the same talent. Many players put up stats which make them look better than they are, or do not put up stats which indicate their skill (this is partially the region a guy like Josh Smith is left off and Rashweed is included). I understand the allstar game as having the most talent in it, and while Ray is not putting up better numbers this year, he's still more talented. BTW - None of this would even be an argument if Hedo hadn't been playing out of his mind recently.

Quite honestly I didn't catch that because I don't pay much attention to your posts. You're a little like the toddler that can't express himself well so throws temper tantrums. Read a few books in your lifetime and you might learn a few words to better state your case.

Disagreeing with my opinions is your prerogative. Where your rights stop is in throwing around vulgar insults at people on this board. I guess you think you're pretty brave saying stuff like that from behind a computer.

[N4U|Redux]

I guess you think you're pretty brave saying stuff like that from behind a computer.

Yes, I'm the brave person talking behind a computer, I'm not challenging youa bout anything, and everyone in this entire forum knows you're a hedo d*ck sucker including yourself. There isn't anything necessarily wrong with that either BTW, but your opinions always skew in favor of him, don't even try to act like they do not. I'm 99.9999% sure that if I called you a hedo d*ck sucker to your face you'd do a whole bunch of nothing, because you know you are.

+ ignore list, frankly, I don't know why you haven't been on ignore since your first post (though, this is the first discussion I've ever really had with you because of your asinine posts).