OT: Why oil prices are so high?

[Shishnizzle]

I quit smoking 3 years ago thank god.

[Optimus_Steel]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080524/bs_ ... cession_dc

Buffett also renewed his criticism of derivatives trading.

"It's not right that hundreds of thousands of jobs are being eliminated, that entire industrial sectors in the real economy are being wiped out by financial bets even though the sectors are actually in good health."

Buffett complained about the lack of effective controls.

"That's the problem," he said. "You can't steer it, you can't regulate it anymore. You can't get the genie back in the bottle."

Not really related to gas prices directly but an interesting point by Buffett when it comes to speculators and futures trading. I have to say i agree.

[sp1187]

so, when it hits 7...will anyone going to quit driving?

[MoMM]

For those of interest: convert

[cjrwell22]

its nuanced but one thing is driving this whole thing the most

[cjrwell22]

speculation, speculation, speculation, its all the oil futures traders buying up oil on the market cuz of the weak dollar. the dollar is weak primarily because we are a debtor nation, we buy more than we sell, and borrow the difference. Enjoy that tax rebate $ cuz it was all borrowed from the Chinese. Yes there are other factors at play, such as an increased demand in the growing economies of China, India, & Brazil, and we may have reached peak oil in certain parts of the world like Mexico & Russia, but there's no reason for all of that to make the price increase at such an EXPONENTIAL level. When the dollar loses this much value, due to terrible economic policies (Thanks George) people rush to buy commodities, like gold, and of course oil. Its all a scam people, we need to start focusing on a massive, Apollo project style energy R&D program for the next decade. In the meantime, open up the reserve, and raise fuel efficiency standards on automobiles. Like most of our problems, the solution is Progressive/Pragmatic Movement of our generation, headed by a great leader, GO OBAMA 08!

[Magicmehdi]

Yeah speculation at his best but i really enjoyed the past few weeks with oil, gold and silver )))

[Optimus_Steel]

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Here in Brazil it costs R$2.50/liter (something like US$1.50/liter or 6 bucks per gallon).

The Americans complain a lot, i spent 3 months in USA this year and at least the gallon gets cheaper based on barrel quote. Here in Brazil it doesnt happen, when it gets higher we have to pay more, but when the prices get lower it remains the same to the customer.

Ahm, and i forgot about something, here it isnt pure gasoline, it has 20% of alcohol thats cheaper and makes the car less productive.

There are people losing their jobs because the crazy increase in price in the last year or 2 has caused many businesses to shut down. So thats why people are complaining.

[Optimus_Steel]

Yeah speculation at his best but i really enjoyed the past few weeks with oil, gold and silver )))

You are part of the problem.

[aleZ]

When the dollar loses this much value, due to terrible economic policies (Thanks George) people rush to buy commodities, like gold, and of course oil.

Except for the election plug (Dubya is terrible, but don't think for a second Obama's a saviour) you're basically right on everything. Especially the fuel efficiency of american cars, no wonder Imports or japanese manufacturers are enjoying more success these days, too bad it's all cash that goes outside the US into foreign firms' pockets.

Like so many wrote in the previous pages, you don't need a 5 ton, 350bhp truck to drive to work every morning

[Shishnizzle]

I'm no W fan but Obama will be just as bad. Your basically right about us being a debtor nation, but instead of just blaming a politician look at the real policy's that make it the case.

With NAFTA which was put in place by Clinton, we have to compete with economy's around the world on an even playing field. Except, for us we have much higher wages and higher corporate taxes and regulation. Company's do not have to employ American workers. They can move their jobs and they do. The reasons they move those manufacturing jobs are as follows. Higher corporate taxes, higher regulation, and unionization. Those evil corporations that Democrats attack all the time, are the same company's providing lots of jobs. To be competitive in this free trade world. We have to lower corporate taxes, regulation, and decrease union influence. That will create more jobs. increase tax revenue to the federal govt. and increase our exports versus what we import. I'm a libertarian, so don't attack me like I am a republican after you read this. The fact is, Democrats greatest constituency's are Labor unions, environmental groups that love to increase regulation and Democrats love to over tax anything, including business. Democrats are against lowering corporate taxes, Democrats are against drilling for new oil, against Nuclear power, against new refineries, If you think Obama is going to solve it your kidding yourself. Vote for Bob Barr, and legalize Marijuana so Noah can stay out of jail. In fact Legalize all drugs and get rid of the IRS.

[spinedoc]

I'm no W fan but Obama will be just as bad. Your basically right about us being a debtor nation, but instead of just blaming a politician look at the real policy's that make it the case.

With NAFTA which was put in place by Clinton, we have to compete with economy's around the world on an even playing field. Except, for us we have much higher wages and higher corporate taxes and regulation. Company's do not have to employ American workers. They can move their jobs and they do. The reasons they move those manufacturing jobs are as follows. Higher corporate taxes, higher regulation, and unionization. Those evil corporations that Democrats attack all the time, are the same company's providing lots of jobs. To be competitive in this free trade world. We have to lower corporate taxes, regulation, and decrease union influence. That will create more jobs. increase tax revenue to the federal govt. and increase our exports versus what we import. I'm a libertarian, so don't attack me like I am a republican after you read this. The fact is, Democrats greatest constituency's are Labor unions, environmental groups that love to increase regulation and Democrats love to over tax anything, including business. Democrats are against lowering corporate taxes, Democrats are against drilling for new oil, against Nuclear power, against new refineries, If you think Obama is going to solve it your kidding yourself. Vote for Bob Barr, and legalize Marijuana so Noah can stay out of jail. In fact Legalize all drugs and get rid of the IRS.

I've heard this song and dance all my life Cat. Its partially true, but not for the reasons that you think. These companies move their businesses because of cheap labor and yes, a total lack of regulations. But look at our history as a nation, most of the regulations are a sign of progress imo, not a form of punishment. Any idea what manufacturing was like before most of these regulations were put into place? You sever an arm in a cotton mill, they simply gather your arm, clean up the mess, and employ the next person behind you with no further responsibility to the worker or their replacement. Work environments were unsafe, unhealthy, abusive, and focused only on production. It should be a symbiotic relationship between company and worker imo. Check out the movie Norma Rae sometime. People had to come together for protection because it wasn't being offered by the employer, and certainly not by the government. Heck, we even abused little children in the work place. Now we do it in other countries.

Currently companies are encouraged to outsource their factories with very large tax cuts and loop holes. The new host country that we are supposedly "free" trading with is tariffing our goods to death, while we take a loss on theirs. All this so a very few can make the money, while the many get the shaft. Obama will be different because he wants to give tax cuts to only those companies that stay here and not move overseas. No, he can't stop outsourcing, but he can take away the incentive to do so. The government is not the engine. It doesn't drive the country, but rather the rudder. It guides the direction in which the country goes in. He also wants to invest on infrastructure which will give the people a lot of good paying jobs with benefits, and also invest in green technology. Its important that we stay on the cutting edge, because thats where the good jobs and money is in the future. Then let the people of southeast Asia make our mops and other disposable goods if you want. Instead, our future is in retail, selling all this crap that doesn't last long and is made elsewhere. Like I said, I gave money to Ron Paul. I dig some Libertarian ideas, but Bob Barr? Thats a dyed in the wool retooled Republican, don't be fooled.

One other thing about regulation. De-regulation has been one of our greatest downfalls. I'm not touting over reach by government, but look at what a lack of government has done. Its brought us this housing market mess. Its bad enough that mortgage companies were giving money out like candy and the government didn't do anything to stop it. Instead these bad loans got AAA ratings from the government, so now they are in the worlds' financial portfolios bought as investments. Enron was another product of de-regulation. Energy companies allowed to bilk entire states out of their reserves and the President wouldn't even hear from governors or state representatives about it. Instead the vice president had over 40 secret meetings with these same energy companies. Last one I'll mention was the scam to have financial auditors getting paid to check companies books and at the same time getting paid to advise the companies financial futures. A total conflict of interest brought to you by de-regulation. The stock market loved that one, many people went down the hole with that. Governments job is to govern Cat, not in a way to break corporations back, but to make sure that the game is being played fair. Think about what sports would be like without refs or umps and teams were allowed to regulate the game instead. Now we all hate it when refs over exert themselves in the game, but they still need to be present to have some semblance of fairness. Sorry for the rant, but this one obviously struck a nerve.

[CourtsideTV]

I drive a Hummer so I can spend $100/day on gas. (GREEN FONT)

[aleZ]

we even abused little children in the work place. Now we do it in other countries.

Great post Spine, I don't wholly agree on the regulations point however. In Europe we got laws for everything and they've just slowed the economy to a halt over the years (don't be fooled by the Euro, it's like a virtual currency made for stock market jockeys). Companies will find their way around governments anyway, and ppl will just find it harder to get new jobs.

[spinedoc]

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Great post Spine, I don't wholly agree on the regulations point however. In Europe we got laws for everything and they've just slowed the economy to a halt over the years (don't be fooled by the Euro, it's like a virtual currency made for stock market jockeys). Companies will find their way around governments anyway, and ppl will just find it harder to get new jobs.

Thanks, and I don't disagree really, just there needs to be a balance of the two. Right now its definitely out of balance. Its not black and white, but many shades of gray.

[Shishnizzle]

Of course you need some regulation, but my over all point is that with free trade, we as a country need to be more competitive, or we will continue to loose those jobs. Which in the end decreases tax revenue to the govt. I think we need to be more competitive. We can do that by substantially decreasing corporate taxes. We can have better more effective regulation and we can reduce union influence. That is not to say we have to completely get rid of unions or regulation, but we should reduce taxes o substantially on corporations and businesses. We need to be more competitive over all is my point. Not to the extremes.

It's not all about loosing the jobs either. We need to be more attractive to corporations wanting to bring jobs here. It's not as dire as a lot of people think. We have great infrastructure in place and we live in a wonderful country.

Anyway, I'm glad we can have this conversation without arguing.

[spinedoc]

Anyway, I'm glad we can have this conversation without arguing.

Same here, and I understand what your saying.

[cjrwell22]

Oh dude, i definitely dont believe that Obama is a savior, I just honestly believe that he can galvanize people to get behind some changes that need to be made, and if it comes down to him or Flip-Flop McCain, its no contest. I totally agree wit spinedoc on regulation, i mean look.. I firmly believe that too much of anything is bad. We need to let the markets do their thing, but within reason. and im not just bagging on the worst president of all time (dubya) Hell, clinton was in charge when congress repealled the glass-stegall act in 96'. That act was crucial to regulation of financial markets for over 60 years, specifically designed to prevent the kinda b.s. we've seen now with the credit, and financial rackets. I mean these companies had MILLIONS of dollars not on the books, and were playing games to make more $. Its disgusting. I wasn't even born yet, but we had a situation even worse in the 70s. My pops told me about the lines around the block, the rationing, the gridlock. You would think that we would have been on the road to new energy independence years ago, but alas, the big money interests are blocking everything. We need to rebuild our national infrastructure, creating jobs, and investing in new energy subsidies. I honestly believe Obama has the best chance at doing so, plus dem majorities are gonna be huge in november. Maybe 58 or 59 senate seats, almost filibuster proof. What we will see now and hopefully for the next decade or 2 is a new progressive movement in this country. People realize our problems are based on old money and politics getting in the way. Why aren't we on the front lines of creating new energy sources, and hybrid cars. Why aren't we on the forefront of a new national public transportation system. Why aren't we rebuilding our national roads, and bridges, and investing more in wind, solar, and water energy? The bottom line is we have a duty, opportunity, and obligation, to do things cleaner, better, faster, & more efficiently. We can only hope something gets done, because this could go up to $5 before the summer is over, and we can all agree that many people are hurting right now.

[Catledge]

BCCat, the philosophy that you are advocating has basically been the one in place since the Reagan Revolution, and the promised results have never happened. I think it's fair to say that the Great Society was a case of government trying to do too much for too many, but at some point we have to learn the lessons of the last quarter century, not just those of the 60s and 70s.

The fact is that the conservative approach to taxes and regulations has never had the effects we were promised by Buckley, Goldwater, Reagan, and the Bushes. When we have seen growth in net wealth, it has rarely translated into significant growth in the net number of wealthy people, meaning that the quality of life for most Americans has not improved. It turns out that business, when left to its own devices, won't take care of the American people without the watchful eye of government; the Internet crash, the housing crash, and the Enron-like scandals are direct testimony to this.

[orlandomike]

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whoa, wait.

a libertarian who understands the necessity of regulation in certain instances?

god bless your heart, sir.

most libertarians dont believe in no government, just that it is a necessary evil as was taught in civics class. But the amount of regulation we have and turning our government into a world business dealer undermines the natural law of supply and demand and the free market system.