Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[Magic_Kingdom]

I still feel that our starting Center NEXT season will be one Mo Bamba. WCJ, on a very reasonable extension, will be traded as soon as we know Isaac is viable. WCJ may prove to be our PF of the future with Isaac possibly on the block (if Bamba/WCJ starts delivering a legit front court 2-2way upside). I'm saying Bamba's improved play is real and is more a function of opportunity and Coaching support than contract status...we'll see.

Now onto the 3 spot...

I think the issue for some of us, is only judging him on this contract year. We can't forget the past 3 years.
IF he puts up the numbers that look like a 20M year center, then goes back to partial participation, that really puts the org in a bind.

To me these are empty stats on a team losing by 30 points a game. Never pay a guy big bucks unless he is a difference maker. Bamba is not worth more than $12-15 mil per year until he becomes a difference maker that helps those around him win games.

Agreed. This is the best Bamba we've seen and the team lost the first 2 games by 26 and 25 points. I thought it was interesting at the end of last season when the team was tanking hard and benched all their quality players with "injuries", they kept playing Bamba. They knew there was no danger of him contributing to any wins.

[SOUL]

I think the issue for some of us, is only judging him on this contract year. We can't forget the past 3 years.
IF he puts up the numbers that look like a 20M year center, then goes back to partial participation, that really puts the org in a bind.

To me these are empty stats on a team losing by 30 points a game. Never pay a guy big bucks unless he is a difference maker. Bamba is not worth more than $12-15 mil per year until he becomes a difference maker that helps those around him win games.

Agreed. This is the best Bamba we've seen and the team lost the first 2 games by 26 and 25 points. I thought it was interesting at the end of last season when the team was tanking hard and benched all their quality players with "injuries", they kept playing Bamba. They knew there was no danger of him contributing to any wins.

Bamba has the lowest +/- of any of it so equating it being a product of Bamba just putting up stats and not actually affecting the game isn't really a thing.

He needs to keep it up for a while though.

[Xatticus]

I think the issue for some of us, is only judging him on this contract year. We can't forget the past 3 years.
IF he puts up the numbers that look like a 20M year center, then goes back to partial participation, that really puts the org in a bind.

To me these are empty stats on a team losing by 30 points a game. Never pay a guy big bucks unless he is a difference maker. Bamba is not worth more than $12-15 mil per year until he becomes a difference maker that helps those around him win games.

Agreed. This is the best Bamba we've seen and the team lost the first 2 games by 26 and 25 points. I thought it was interesting at the end of last season when the team was tanking hard and benched all their quality players with "injuries", they kept playing Bamba. They knew there was no danger of him contributing to any wins.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612753&VsPlayerID=1628964

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=orlando+magic+players+2021-22+plus+minus+leaders

So not only does Bamba have literally the best plus/minus on the team, but the team has been 55 points better per 100 possessions with him than without.

I think it’s interesting that folks that unfailingly defended Vucevic suddenly care about plus/minus, but not enough to actually look at the stats.

[Bensational]

Bamba could be on track for MIP if he sustains or improves on this level.

[MasterGMer]

Bamba's size and arm reach is a huge advantage on the court. He is really the biggest surprise this season for the Magic. Hard work pays off and I hope he can keep it up plus bring us a win!

[BadMofoPimp]

To me these are empty stats on a team losing by 30 points a game. Never pay a guy big bucks unless he is a difference maker. Bamba is not worth more than $12-15 mil per year until he becomes a difference maker that helps those around him win games.

Agreed. This is the best Bamba we've seen and the team lost the first 2 games by 26 and 25 points. I thought it was interesting at the end of last season when the team was tanking hard and benched all their quality players with "injuries", they kept playing Bamba. They knew there was no danger of him contributing to any wins.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612753&VsPlayerID=1628964

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=orlando+magic+players+2021-22+plus+minus+leaders

So not only does Bamba have literally the best plus/minus on the team, but the team has been 55 points better per 100 possessions with him than without.

I think it’s interesting that folks that unfailingly defended Vucevic suddenly care about plus/minus, but not enough to actually look at the stats.

Vooch won games and was integral to the team victories. Until Bamba can prove otherwise, he is just empty stats on a team losing by 20+ ppg.

[BCS]

Agreed. This is the best Bamba we've seen and the team lost the first 2 games by 26 and 25 points. I thought it was interesting at the end of last season when the team was tanking hard and benched all their quality players with "injuries", they kept playing Bamba. They knew there was no danger of him contributing to any wins.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612753&VsPlayerID=1628964

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=orlando+magic+players+2021-22+plus+minus+leaders

So not only does Bamba have literally the best plus/minus on the team, but the team has been 55 points better per 100 possessions with him than without.

I think it’s interesting that folks that unfailingly defended Vucevic suddenly care about plus/minus, but not enough to actually look at the stats.

Vooch won games and was integral to the team victories. Until Bamba can prove otherwise, he is just empty stats on a team losing by 20+ ppg.

You missed the green font I hope. Vooch stats leading to victories? Only 1 winning season during his tenure with the Magic and barely, come on. If Bamba's are empty stats so are Vooch's.

And why are we comparing the 2, different players. Vooch led the worst decade in Magic history, let's just leave him in the past please.

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[Knightro]

Vooch won games and was integral to the team victories. Until Bamba can prove otherwise, he is just empty stats on a team losing by 20+ ppg.

This is

[pepe1991]

Is it just me, or RJ Hampton has some oke-ish stats but eye test for him is just horrendus?

[jezzerinho]

Is it just me, or RJ Hampton has some oke-ish stats but eye test for him is just horrendus?

Yup, if Franz has elite IQ but mediocre athleticism, then RJ is the opposite. He looks like a pro sportsman from another game altogether who was asked to suit up and play basketball for the first time. Because he's coordinated and has fluid motor skills, you can see something resembling a basketball player if you squint really hard. But in general he looks like he's never played the game before.

[pepe1991]

Is it just me, or RJ Hampton has some oke-ish stats but eye test for him is just horrendus?

Yup, if Franz has elite IQ but mediocre athleticism, then RJ is the opposite. He looks like a pro sportsman from another game altogether who was asked to suit up and play basketball for the first time. Because he's coordinated and has fluid motor skills, you can see something resembling a basketball player if you squint really hard. But in general he looks like he's never played the game before.

Yea, sums it up my feelings as well.

Once Fultz returns he is out of rotation.

[RookieStar]

well... out of guys we are developing, i kinda wonder why Ross and Harris are ahead kf RJ in the rotation. I mean if the goal is about developing. What happened to the rookie of the nonth last season? Where did he go?

[pepe1991]

To me these are empty stats on a team losing by 30 points a game. Never pay a guy big bucks unless he is a difference maker. Bamba is not worth more than $12-15 mil per year until he becomes a difference maker that helps those around him win games.

Agreed. This is the best Bamba we've seen and the team lost the first 2 games by 26 and 25 points. I thought it was interesting at the end of last season when the team was tanking hard and benched all their quality players with "injuries", they kept playing Bamba. They knew there was no danger of him contributing to any wins.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612753&VsPlayerID=1628964

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=orlando+magic+players+2021-22+plus+minus+leaders

So not only does Bamba have literally the best plus/minus on the team, but the team has been 55 points better per 100 possessions with him than without.

I think it’s interesting that folks that unfailingly defended Vucevic suddenly care about plus/minus, but not enough to actually look at the stats.

I have so many questions, but one is obvious? Why would somebody who prouds himself to be level-headed, got into rabbithole of 2 games sample size to flex opinion?

Literally, 48 hours after posting this, same player is 4th worst in plus minus on a team, leads team in fouls , is third in turnovers, has negative assist to turnover ratio ...




Even looking at stats after 2,3,4 or even 15 games is usless. You know better than this.

And if idneed we are going to look at stats after 4 games, for whatever reason, Franz Wagner would be closest thing to positive contributor you can find. Maybe with Wendell Carter, who isn't particularly amazing, but isn't harmful either.
Others would all fill tank commander, first officier and soldiers role.

Oh and Most IMproved player ... first week would suggest it will probably be battle between Ja Morant, Miles Bridges, Lamelo Ball... where he probably won't sustain it and won't win it, Harrison Barnes is averaging like 30 ppg.

[tooler]

RJ was rookie of the month last year so it's still possible for him to settle down when he's in a more reasonable role. He played well last night by keeping it simple.

He doesn't really concern me one way or the other. It's just odd.

[Skybox]

Is it just me, or RJ Hampton has some oke-ish stats but eye test for him is just horrendus?

Yup, if Franz has elite IQ but mediocre athleticism, then RJ is the opposite. He looks like a pro sportsman from another game altogether who was asked to suit up and play basketball for the first time. Because he's coordinated and has fluid motor skills, you can see something resembling a basketball player if you squint really hard. But in general he looks like he's never played the game before.

That's a good take. Reminds me of when a couple of wrestlers would show up to play pick up in college. Intense, fast, explosive, engaged, lacking in any skill or etiquette...that's when people got hurt.

[drsd]

Bamba is playing with passion; something he needs to get better.

[tooler]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-rookie-rankings-chris-duarte-shows-off-scoring-prowess-no-1-after-opening-week-jalen-green-ties-record/

Franz at #5 and Suggs at #6.

I liked how the CBS writer was a lot more level-headed about Suggs than some people on this board. Haha!

[MagicFan101]

well... out of guys we are developing, i kinda wonder why Ross and Harris are ahead kf RJ in the rotation. I mean if the goal is about developing. What happened to the rookie of the nonth last season? Where did he go?

Just my thoughts.

This is a team game. Individual development does depend somewhat on your surrounding and that includes the guys you’re playing with. RJ is still very raw, especially as a TEAM player.

If we want to prioritize guys like Suggs and Bamba improving then it makes sense to surround them with more seasoned / higher bbIQ players as much as possible. WCJ, Harris, Lopez and others fit that.

[3ddman23]

Is it just me, or RJ Hampton has some oke-ish stats but eye test for him is just horrendus?

Yup, if Franz has elite IQ but mediocre athleticism, then RJ is the opposite. He looks like a pro sportsman from another game altogether who was asked to suit up and play basketball for the first time. Because he's coordinated and has fluid motor skills, you can see something resembling a basketball player if you squint really hard. But in general he looks like he's never played the game before.

I had to come in and and 1 this post lol.

You said it perfect he looks like thay kid who you can tell has some talent but has never really played at a high level or had coaching to refine his game. Or a high level football player who jumps on a ball court to play with varsity lol. Perfect way to put it.

[drsd]

Offensive rating of 99.6 — 27th
Defensive rating of 115.3 — 27th
Field goal percentage of 40.5% — 28th
Opponent field goal percentage of 45.8% — 20th
Two point field goal percentage of 48.6% — 25th
Opponent two point field goal percentage of 53.7% — 23rd
Effective field goal percentage of 47.9% — 26th
Opponent effective field goal percentage of 53.4% — 22nd
Turnover percentage of 14.9% — 25th
Opponent turnover percentage of 9.3% — 29th

LINK: Unpacking the overreactions


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