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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#821 » by VFX » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:01 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
Knightro wrote:Man that's tough.

I definitely agree that Mobley needs to add size and strength, but the actual skill gap between he and Bamba seems massive to me.

Bamba at Texas only had 10 assists his entire freshman season. Mobley has 60.

Mo racked up a ton of rebounds and blocks because of his wingspan, but outside of lobs and scoring off offensive rebounds, he really showed very little ability to do much of anything offensively with the ball in his hands at Texas. If you asked him to take even one dribble, he really had a hard time.

I'd even go so far as to say Bamba's shot transformation (which is still very much a work in progress to this day) didn't even happen until he hooked up with Drew Hanlen who completely overhauled his shot mechanics in the summer between his final college game and the draft.

Mobley has tangible skill as a short roll man, both as a passer and as a shotmaker which is something Bamba is unlikely to ever possess.

Candidly, I don't really want my bigs posting up all that much anyway, so the fact that Mobley is moved off his spot relatively easily right now isn't a huge deal for me either.

The Bamba comment wasn't me trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison between him and Mobley. They are pretty different players, && I would tend to agree that Mobley is much more skilled offensively at this stage than Bamba was. His playmaking ability is the most impressive thing about him as a prospect, which has never been in Bamba's repertoire. I was just simply stating that a lot of the production Mobley is getting in the mid-post/low post area where he is drawing nearly 6 FTA's a game, is going to come harder at the next level.

That relegates him to taking a lot more of those long 2's, which he's shown to be quite good at, but is not a skillset I covet whatsoever out of my stretch 5's. I see him being more than content with doing so though. I've seen a player who has too often shied away from contact this year. I believe much of his value early on is going to hinge on the development of his 3pt shot, which he quite honestly just hasn't hit consistently enough this season.

Everything I've seen from Mobley has come in bursts and inconsistent stretches. I just can't agree with the notion that he is one of the best players in the country. One of the most talented, and an intriguing project?

Sure. But many centers before him have had intriguing offensive skillsets with a lot of talent to go with it. Intangibles matter though. I worry about a center that shies away from contact and disappears for stretches, as I've seen throughout the year. Perhaps I'm still jaded from the promise that was Mo Bamba, but I'd like to think I have a pretty good grasp on Mobley as a prospect.

He could certainly prove me wrong, put all the skills together, && develop into a force offensively, but I wouldn't bet on it.


I’m not taking Mobley for the same reasons I didn’t want us to draft Bamba or Ayton in 2018...

I don’t care if he’s AD, Love, or Bosh...

None of those players have ever been successful to “build around” on non-big-market rosters. In reality, they are always secondary to a playmaker or a wing as a primary option.

If you land a top 5 pick in a draft such as this, you take the non-big. Why? Because you are likely making that selection knowing that kind of player is a cornerstone moving forward.

Now I’m not saying the FO holds that same belief/standard. They likely don’t considering their draft history and who they’ve taken toward the top. Taking Mobley, or even Barnes, ahead of any of those wings/guards slated toward the top makes zero sense not only from the Magic’s situation, but from a square one perspective in my opinion.

Having said all this, I could 100% see this clueless front office selecting Mobley, Barnes, or Kuminga with the #3 pick and it wouldn’t shock me at all.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#822 » by Knightro » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:03 pm

Montverde High School had Cade Cunningham, Moses Moody and Scottie Barnes all on the same team last year.

Not surprising they went 25-0.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#823 » by MagicFan101 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:14 pm

Knightro wrote:Montverde High School had Cade Cunningham, Moses Moody and Scottie Barnes all on the same team last year.

Not surprising they went 25-0.


That’s actually a pretty dream trio to start an NBA rebuild with ...

How can we trade the farm for 2 extra top 10 picks should we somehow land #1? 8-) :wink:
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#824 » by MagicFan101 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:20 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
Knightro wrote:Man that's tough.

I definitely agree that Mobley needs to add size and strength, but the actual skill gap between he and Bamba seems massive to me.

Bamba at Texas only had 10 assists his entire freshman season. Mobley has 60.

Mo racked up a ton of rebounds and blocks because of his wingspan, but outside of lobs and scoring off offensive rebounds, he really showed very little ability to do much of anything offensively with the ball in his hands at Texas. If you asked him to take even one dribble, he really had a hard time.

I'd even go so far as to say Bamba's shot transformation (which is still very much a work in progress to this day) didn't even happen until he hooked up with Drew Hanlen who completely overhauled his shot mechanics in the summer between his final college game and the draft.

Mobley has tangible skill as a short roll man, both as a passer and as a shotmaker which is something Bamba is unlikely to ever possess.

Candidly, I don't really want my bigs posting up all that much anyway, so the fact that Mobley is moved off his spot relatively easily right now isn't a huge deal for me either.

The Bamba comment wasn't me trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison between him and Mobley. They are pretty different players, && I would tend to agree that Mobley is much more skilled offensively at this stage than Bamba was. His playmaking ability is the most impressive thing about him as a prospect, which has never been in Bamba's repertoire. I was just simply stating that a lot of the production Mobley is getting in the mid-post/low post area where he is drawing nearly 6 FTA's a game, is going to come harder at the next level.

That relegates him to taking a lot more of those long 2's, which he's shown to be quite good at, but is not a skillset I covet whatsoever out of my stretch 5's. I see him being more than content with doing so though. I've seen a player who has too often shied away from contact this year. I believe much of his value early on is going to hinge on the development of his 3pt shot, which he quite honestly just hasn't hit consistently enough this season.

Everything I've seen from Mobley has come in bursts and inconsistent stretches. I just can't agree with the notion that he is one of the best players in the country. One of the most talented, and an intriguing project?

Sure. But many centers before him have had intriguing offensive skillsets with a lot of talent to go with it. Intangibles matter though. I worry about a center that shies away from contact and disappears for stretches, as I've seen throughout the year. Perhaps I'm still jaded from the promise that was Mo Bamba, but I'd like to think I have a pretty good grasp on Mobley as a prospect.

He could certainly prove me wrong, put all the skills together, && develop into a force offensively, but I wouldn't bet on it.


I’m not taking Mobley for the same reasons I didn’t want us to draft Bamba or Ayton in 2018...

I don’t care if he’s AD, Love, or Bosh...

None of those players have ever been successful to “build around” on non-big-market rosters. In reality, they are always secondary to a playmaker or a wing as a primary option.

If you land a top 5 pick in a draft such as this, you take the non-big. Why? Because you are likely making that selection knowing that kind of player is a cornerstone moving forward.

Now I’m not saying the FO holds that same belief/standard. They likely don’t considering their draft history and who they’ve taken toward the top. Taking Mobley, or even Barnes, ahead of any of those wings/guards slated toward the top makes zero sense not only from the Magic’s situation, but from a square one perspective in my opinion.

Having said all this, I could 100% see this clueless front office selecting Mobley, Barnes, or Kuminga with the #3 pick and it wouldn’t shock me at all.


If Minny lands the #2 or #3 pick they are taking Kuminga over Suggs and Green and not thinking twice. I would fully agree with that selection.

So I don’t fully agree with your post.

These 5 guys are all super crazy talented. So BPA is a bit nullified in the top 5.

IMO, Cade is ahead of the pack in potential to be a Franchise Super Star. I would say any team at #1 must take Cade. After that, some context matters.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#825 » by VFX » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:31 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:The Bamba comment wasn't me trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison between him and Mobley. They are pretty different players, && I would tend to agree that Mobley is much more skilled offensively at this stage than Bamba was. His playmaking ability is the most impressive thing about him as a prospect, which has never been in Bamba's repertoire. I was just simply stating that a lot of the production Mobley is getting in the mid-post/low post area where he is drawing nearly 6 FTA's a game, is going to come harder at the next level.

That relegates him to taking a lot more of those long 2's, which he's shown to be quite good at, but is not a skillset I covet whatsoever out of my stretch 5's. I see him being more than content with doing so though. I've seen a player who has too often shied away from contact this year. I believe much of his value early on is going to hinge on the development of his 3pt shot, which he quite honestly just hasn't hit consistently enough this season.

Everything I've seen from Mobley has come in bursts and inconsistent stretches. I just can't agree with the notion that he is one of the best players in the country. One of the most talented, and an intriguing project?

Sure. But many centers before him have had intriguing offensive skillsets with a lot of talent to go with it. Intangibles matter though. I worry about a center that shies away from contact and disappears for stretches, as I've seen throughout the year. Perhaps I'm still jaded from the promise that was Mo Bamba, but I'd like to think I have a pretty good grasp on Mobley as a prospect.

He could certainly prove me wrong, put all the skills together, && develop into a force offensively, but I wouldn't bet on it.


I’m not taking Mobley for the same reasons I didn’t want us to draft Bamba or Ayton in 2018...

I don’t care if he’s AD, Love, or Bosh...

None of those players have ever been successful to “build around” on non-big-market rosters. In reality, they are always secondary to a playmaker or a wing as a primary option.

If you land a top 5 pick in a draft such as this, you take the non-big. Why? Because you are likely making that selection knowing that kind of player is a cornerstone moving forward.

Now I’m not saying the FO holds that same belief/standard. They likely don’t considering their draft history and who they’ve taken toward the top. Taking Mobley, or even Barnes, ahead of any of those wings/guards slated toward the top makes zero sense not only from the Magic’s situation, but from a square one perspective in my opinion.

Having said all this, I could 100% see this clueless front office selecting Mobley, Barnes, or Kuminga with the #3 pick and it wouldn’t shock me at all.


If Minny lands the #2 or #3 pick they are taking Kuminga over Suggs and Green and not thinking twice. I would fully agree with that selection.

So I don’t fully agree with your post.

These 5 guys are all super crazy talented. So BPA is a bit nullified in the top 5.

IMO, Cade is ahead of the pack in potential to be a Franchise Super Star. I would say any team at #1 must take Cade. After that, some context matters.


Yeah, I think Cade is going #1 regardless. It’s still going to be determined on the draft lotto. Not entirely sure the 3 of Cade, Suggs, and Green would go any later than #4 altogether.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#826 » by basketballRob » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:02 am

Scottie Barnes looks like a Giannis type player.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#827 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:05 am

MagicMatic wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
I’m not taking Mobley for the same reasons I didn’t want us to draft Bamba or Ayton in 2018...

I don’t care if he’s AD, Love, or Bosh...

None of those players have ever been successful to “build around” on non-big-market rosters. In reality, they are always secondary to a playmaker or a wing as a primary option.

If you land a top 5 pick in a draft such as this, you take the non-big. Why? Because you are likely making that selection knowing that kind of player is a cornerstone moving forward.

Now I’m not saying the FO holds that same belief/standard. They likely don’t considering their draft history and who they’ve taken toward the top. Taking Mobley, or even Barnes, ahead of any of those wings/guards slated toward the top makes zero sense not only from the Magic’s situation, but from a square one perspective in my opinion.

Having said all this, I could 100% see this clueless front office selecting Mobley, Barnes, or Kuminga with the #3 pick and it wouldn’t shock me at all.


If Minny lands the #2 or #3 pick they are taking Kuminga over Suggs and Green and not thinking twice. I would fully agree with that selection.

So I don’t fully agree with your post.

These 5 guys are all super crazy talented. So BPA is a bit nullified in the top 5.

IMO, Cade is ahead of the pack in potential to be a Franchise Super Star. I would say any team at #1 must take Cade. After that, some context matters.


Yeah, I think Cade is going #1 regardless. It’s still going to be determined on the draft lotto. Not entirely sure the 3 of Cade, Suggs, and Green would go any later than #4 altogether.


Consider the 5 teams at the bottom right now:

Minny, Detroit, Houston, Orlando, Cleveland

All 5 would take Cade in a heartbeat.

Detroit and Houston need everything and are true BPA team.

Would Minny or Cleveland take Suggs or Green? I don’t think so. I think Minny would want Kuminga and Cleveland would want either of the two bigs.

Orlando has to be all in on Cade, Suggs and Green.

So after Cade, draft order matters. It isn’t as simple as “small ball >>> bigs” that is silly.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#828 » by RookieStar » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:14 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
If Minny lands the #2 or #3 pick they are taking Kuminga over Suggs and Green and not thinking twice. I would fully agree with that selection.

So I don’t fully agree with your post.

These 5 guys are all super crazy talented. So BPA is a bit nullified in the top 5.

IMO, Cade is ahead of the pack in potential to be a Franchise Super Star. I would say any team at #1 must take Cade. After that, some context matters.


Yeah, I think Cade is going #1 regardless. It’s still going to be determined on the draft lotto. Not entirely sure the 3 of Cade, Suggs, and Green would go any later than #4 altogether.


Consider the 5 teams at the bottom right now:

Minny, Detroit, Houston, Orlando, Cleveland

All 5 would take Cade in a heartbeat.

Detroit and Houston need everything and are true BPA team.

Would Minny or Cleveland take Suggs or Green? I don’t think so. I think Minny would want Kuminga and Cleveland would want either of the two bigs.

Orlando has to be all in on Cade, Suggs and Green.

So after Cade, draft order matters. It isn’t as simple as “small ball >>> bigs” that is silly.


Minny needs a 4. Mobley because of his skill and frame is generally seen as a 4 in the league.. so yeah i think Mobley or Kuminga is right for them.

Cleveland though... why woukd they want a big? As I recall they still have love drummong javalee jaffro... while their backcourt is sooo undersized even though productive offensively
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#829 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:31 am

RookieStar wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Yeah, I think Cade is going #1 regardless. It’s still going to be determined on the draft lotto. Not entirely sure the 3 of Cade, Suggs, and Green would go any later than #4 altogether.


Consider the 5 teams at the bottom right now:

Minny, Detroit, Houston, Orlando, Cleveland

All 5 would take Cade in a heartbeat.

Detroit and Houston need everything and are true BPA team.

Would Minny or Cleveland take Suggs or Green? I don’t think so. I think Minny would want Kuminga and Cleveland would want either of the two bigs.

Orlando has to be all in on Cade, Suggs and Green.

So after Cade, draft order matters. It isn’t as simple as “small ball >>> bigs” that is silly.


Minny needs a 4. Mobley because of his skill and frame is generally seen as a 4 in the league.. so yeah i think Mobley or Kuminga is right for them.

Cleveland though... why woukd they want a big? As I recall they still have love drummong javalee jaffro... while their backcourt is sooo undersized even though productive offensively


You might want to catch up on Andre Drummond’s status in the news.

The do have Jarrett Allen at C.

Kevin Love is not long for this young roster. They need an upgrade at PF. Kuminga or Mobley would be nice additions to this roster.

Sure, they aren’t sold on Sexton / Garland then perhaps Suggs or Green are the play. If they are sitting at the #5 pick and one of those two is the BPA they will take him but if they have the #2-4 pick and have to make a choice, I think they look to replace Kevin Love and then trade him to a contender ... once they can find a taker (possibly in a year when he becomes an expiring).
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#830 » by Knightro » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:27 am

Cunningham is almost certainly going 1st.

2 is where it gets interesting. I could see Mobley, Suggs, Green or Kuminga depending on who gets the pick.

Assuming the Magic are not going to fire the front office or the coaching staff and also aren't going to unload Vucevic, then it seems like their board should be...

1. Cunningham
2A. Suggs/Green
2B. Suggs/Green

Under different circumstances, I'd be willing to Mobley, Kuminga and especially Barnes, but I just don't think it's in the cards given how I suspect things will look when the draft rolls around.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#831 » by MasterGMer » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:36 am

Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#832 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:51 am

Perhaps my favorite part of watching Scottie Barnes is seeing him out there on offense and defense directing the team. He truly is a floor general and a coach on the court.

... as a freshman!!
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#833 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:57 am

MasterGMer wrote:Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard


We need a Franchise Super Star. If Suggs is that, I’ll take it; especially at the PG spot.

True, ideally I would love a Kobe / T-Mac type guy at guard to play alongside the investment we have made in Fultz and Cole. However, if the lotto luck doesn’t work out for us or the process tells us Suggs >> Green, we go with what we can.

At the end of the day. None of Fultz or Cole or Isaac or Vuc are future super stars. So I’m not drafting around them.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#834 » by IllMagic04 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:00 am

MasterGMer wrote:Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard
We just gotta take the best player available. Im still not sold on Fultz as our starter. Cole has impressed but I still see him as a scoring punch off the bench more then our lead guard.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#835 » by MasterGMer » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:03 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard


We need a Franchise Super Star. If Suggs is that, I’ll take it; especially at the PG spot.

True, ideally I would love a Kobe / T-Mac type guy at guard to play alongside the investment we have made in Fultz and Cole. However, if the lotto luck doesn’t work out for us or the process tells us Suggs >> Green, we go with what we can.

At the end of the day. None of Fultz or Cole or Isaac or Vuc are future super stars. So I’m not drafting around them.


That's fine. But I just wish we can stay off of Mobley if we have a Top 5 pick. All the other players are fine with me
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#836 » by Def Swami » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:39 am

MasterGMer wrote:Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard

Suggs has way higher upside than anyone on our roster.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#837 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:17 am

Man, I would love to see Scottie Barnes with a 40% 3pt shot from NBA range and over 80% from the line.

I want to know what THAT player looks like.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#838 » by Knightro » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:39 am

MasterGMer wrote:Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard


Because theoretically Suggs is way better than both of them?
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#839 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:45 am

MasterGMer wrote:Why do we need Suggs? We have Fultz and Cole. Suggs is another PG for the team. I like Green or Kuminga and quite surprisingly, I think Kuminga needs to play 2 guard

Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony can't factor into a single long-term decision for this team. Right now, neither has shown to be starting-level NBA players. Especially not above-average ones. With their deficiencies, I don't see it happening either.

We need to be actively trying to upgrade at the point guard spot. Suggs would be an obvious attempt at doing that.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#840 » by VFX » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:51 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
If Minny lands the #2 or #3 pick they are taking Kuminga over Suggs and Green and not thinking twice. I would fully agree with that selection.

So I don’t fully agree with your post.

These 5 guys are all super crazy talented. So BPA is a bit nullified in the top 5.

IMO, Cade is ahead of the pack in potential to be a Franchise Super Star. I would say any team at #1 must take Cade. After that, some context matters.


Yeah, I think Cade is going #1 regardless. It’s still going to be determined on the draft lotto. Not entirely sure the 3 of Cade, Suggs, and Green would go any later than #4 altogether.


Consider the 5 teams at the bottom right now:

Minny, Detroit, Houston, Orlando, Cleveland

All 5 would take Cade in a heartbeat.

Detroit and Houston need everything and are true BPA team.

Would Minny or Cleveland take Suggs or Green? I don’t think so. I think Minny would want Kuminga and Cleveland would want either of the two bigs.

Orlando has to be all in on Cade, Suggs and Green.

So after Cade, draft order matters. It isn’t as simple as “small ball >>> bigs” that is silly.


Oh yeah I agree they don’t likely see it that way.

Just hoping Orlando lands in top 4 and let them sort out the rest. I’m not sold on Fultz or a Cole for a potential future starting lineup quite yet.

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