Official Offseason Thread 9.0: The Long Road to October

[drsd]

Anyone who tells me they know who's going to get what minutes, until there's a consolidation, is having a laugh.

Well, regarding the backcourt, it is a 100% lock that Suggs, Anthony, and Caldwell-Pope are "going to get ... minutes". And in a standard 10-man rotation, that means its between Harris, Black, Howard, and scrubs for the final slot.

Except: there is no SF depth chart. No player on this roster should be the backup to F-Wagner. So we all blah-blah about Black, or Harris, or da Silva. The only reason for that is "poor roster construction".

In conclusion: Orlando will run a lot of three guard sets.


As a second conclusion: if Orlando would trade Anthony and the Denver pick for a competent backup SF, there would be no further conversation. With that one move, the 10-man depth chart is simple:

Suggs/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Harris
F-Wagner/Mr-wonderful
Banchero/Isaac
Carter/M-Wagner

And Joseph/Howard/Houstan/da Silva/Bitadze can be the best Cheerleaders the Magic bench has ever had. The 3rd stringers actually look like a really good practice squad after this one simple trade.

[drsd]

Also, how is Cole Anthony a "wing"? He's 6'1 and has played backup point guard on this roster since entering the league.

If you had to guess.... who do you think is on the chopping block for such a move? KCP, Franz, and Paolo are obviously off the table.

In the sense that he is a score-first backcourt player. I think that was the intended meaning.

and p.s. Anthony is not a PG in the same sense that Suggs is not a PG. Antonhy;s pass rate is aweful. He is a blackhole with the ball in his hand.

Ingles had a better apg line than Anthony. Eeh gads.

Suggs and Anthony COMBINED for 5.6 apg. Dennis Schröder and 14 other PGs had better stats than Suggs and Anthony combined. That's not cool.

[SOUL]

drsd's disdain for a solid 23 year old SF that played well in summer league and every year in Colorado is one of my favorite things because I am clueless on why he wouldn't be at least given a chance to potentially be a solid backup. (da Silva )

[drsd]

drsd's disdain for a solid 23 year old SF that played well in summer league and every year in Colorado is one of my favorite things because I am clueless on why he wouldn't be at least given a chance to potentially be a solid backup. (da Silva )

Disdain: the feeling that someone is unworthy of one's consideration or respect.

I feel da Silva is worthy of consideration, and of course we all respect him. Only that he has not yet earned a backup role on this roster. Pre-season will teach us a lot.

But my view stands: a trade of Anthony for a guy like Cedi Osman or Caleb Martin, da Silva would be a lock as a 3rd stringer.

[MasterGMer]

So close to NBA basketball coming back. Oct. 4th! Here we come.

What is Oct 4th? I thought media day is Sept. 30th and training camp Oct 1st.

[MasterGMer]

I want Cole and AB to be in the 2nd unit. And I hope somehow it works. Cole is automatic with his offense but he has to be more consistent. Their success in the 2nd unit will largely affect the season for us. I might be among the minority. But this is the X factor for us along with JI.

[pepe1991]

So close to NBA basketball coming back. Oct. 4th! Here we come.

What is Oct 4th? I thought media day is Sept. 30th and training camp Oct 1st.

Nuggets vs Celtics preseason starts at Oc. 4th.

Playing time for US citizens is bit strange, game will be played in Abu Dhabi.

[MasterGMer]

So close to NBA basketball coming back. Oct. 4th! Here we come.

What is Oct 4th? I thought media day is Sept. 30th and training camp Oct 1st.

Nuggets vs Celtics preseason starts at Oc. 4th.

Playing time for US citizens is bit strange, game will be played in Abu Dhabi.

BTW what platform are Magic's games televised on? Still Bally Sports APP? Oh comon, I wish it is Amazon, lol

[jezzerinho]

Folks, we've accumulated 14 assets capable of playing in a nine-man NBA rotation:

Black, Joseph
Suggs, KCP, Anthony, Howard, Harris (plus Queen - deep bench)
F Wagner, Da Silva (Howard - deep bench)
Banchero, Isaac
Carter, M Wagner, Bitadze

Of our 14 NBA level guys, half of them are SG/Wings.

Anyone who tells me they know who's going to get what minutes, until there's a consolidation, is having a laugh.

You can look back at last season all you want, but the truth is we lost 2 initiators and added 2 more SG/wings.

It's all up for grabs and the FO would be nuts not to give everyone a chance to stake a claim, to boost consolidation value.

Weltman make a large consolidation trade? I'll believe it when I see it.

Also, how is Cole Anthony a "wing"? He's 6'1 and has played backup point guard on this roster since entering the league.

If you had to guess.... who do you think is on the chopping block for such a move? KCP, Franz, and Paolo are obviously off the table.

I know. I feel the same. But we can't afford everyone and it makes no sense having so many guys you can't give the minutes to they deserve.

[Rainwater]

drsd's disdain for a solid 23 year old SF that played well in summer league and every year in Colorado is one of my favorite things because I am clueless on why he wouldn't be at least given a chance to potentially be a solid backup. (da Silva )

Yeah, I was confused too, lol.

[Skybox]

drsd's disdain for a solid 23 year old SF that played well in summer league and every year in Colorado is one of my favorite things because I am clueless on why he wouldn't be at least given a chance to potentially be a solid backup. (da Silva )

Yeah, I was confused too, lol.

The BS logic of “AB & Jett are being developed in the lab by evil genius Weltman” might get an embarrassing wake up when da Silva is first guy off the bench early in the season.

[Knightro]

I reckon Mosley is looser and more flexible with his lineups in the first 3 months of the season and after that he’ll settle into his “let’s get competitive” lineups in the run up to the post season. Guys will get rested in order to create minutes and opportunities for the deep bench guys to show what they’ve got.

With Black, how much of a playmaking role he takes on with the 2nd unit will depend on how assertive he is - and that will fluctuate game to game depending on his confidence. He takes himself out of games if he makes mistakes. But the role is there for the taking because he’s the only guy with the profile to develop into that role.

If they want 3+D they’ve got Harris. If they want a 3pt glue-guy they’ve got TDS. If they want a microwave scorer they’ve got Cole with Jett developing in the wings. If they want a PG then AB is gong to have to grow into that role or find himself competing with other specialists who are ahead of him on their own developmental curves. So it feels like the expectations have been set and now guys just have to try to fulfil them.

I don't really think this is how it will go.

Like there will obviously be injuries throughout the year which will cause adjustments and changes to rotations, but generally speaking Mosley didn't change things up in his rotations too often without injuries being the catalyst.

The Magic rarely benched guys completely for poor performance.

The Magic didn't generally rest healthy players to give other players deeper on the bench a look.

The Magic didn't really change their normal rotations too much game-to-game based on performance.

My feeling...

Mosley has the 10 guys he wants to go with already in his mind and has for a while. As those guys suffer injuries and miss games, guys in spots 11-15 will be moved into roles in the top 10.

If the guys 11-15 play really well and do better than the guys who were in front of them, they probably won't rush those injured guys back or immediately put them back in their old roles.

But I really don't think guys will go from DNP:CD in the 6th game of the season to 15 minutes in 7th game of the season because the Magic want to give the opponent a different look or need a different skill set.

[VFX]

Also, how is Cole Anthony a "wing"? He's 6'1 and has played backup point guard on this roster since entering the league.

If you had to guess.... who do you think is on the chopping block for such a move? KCP, Franz, and Paolo are obviously off the table.

In the sense that he is a score-first backcourt player. I think that was the intended meaning.

and p.s. Anthony is not a PG in the same sense that Suggs is not a PG. Antonhy;s pass rate is aweful. He is a blackhole with the ball in his hand.

Ingles had a better apg line than Anthony. Eeh gads.

Suggs and Anthony COMBINED for 5.6 apg. Dennis Schröder and 14 other PGs had better stats than Suggs and Anthony combined. That's not cool.

I would agree with your assessment if Cole Anthony could guard wings. He can’t. He’s relegated to playing 1 total position because he’s shorter than even me. He gets targeted on defense regularly. He looked BAD in dual pg lineups next to Fultz last season. He has zero positional versatility.

There are point guards that aren’t great distributors. They are score first point guards… doesn’t change the fact that they are point guards… Cole Anthony isn’t a “wing” because he isn’t racking up high assist numbers.

[JoshuaPotter]

I reckon Mosley is looser and more flexible with his lineups in the first 3 months of the season and after that he’ll settle into his “let’s get competitive” lineups in the run up to the post season. Guys will get rested in order to create minutes and opportunities for the deep bench guys to show what they’ve got.

With Black, how much of a playmaking role he takes on with the 2nd unit will depend on how assertive he is - and that will fluctuate game to game depending on his confidence. He takes himself out of games if he makes mistakes. But the role is there for the taking because he’s the only guy with the profile to develop into that role.

If they want 3+D they’ve got Harris. If they want a 3pt glue-guy they’ve got TDS. If they want a microwave scorer they’ve got Cole with Jett developing in the wings. If they want a PG then AB is gong to have to grow into that role or find himself competing with other specialists who are ahead of him on their own developmental curves. So it feels like the expectations have been set and now guys just have to try to fulfil them.

I don't really think this is how it will go.

Like there will obviously be injuries throughout the year which will cause adjustments and changes to rotations, but generally speaking Mosley didn't change things up in his rotations too often without injuries being the catalyst.

The Magic rarely benched guys completely for poor performance.

The Magic didn't generally rest healthy players to give other players deeper on the bench a look.

The Magic didn't really change their normal rotations too much game-to-game based on performance.

My feeling...

Mosley has the 10 guys he wants to go with already in his mind and has for a while. As those guys suffer injuries and miss games, guys in spots 11-15 will be moved into roles in the top 10.

If the guys 11-15 play really well and do better than the guys who were in front of them, they probably won't rush those injured guys back or immediately put them back in their old roles.

But I really don't think guys will go from DNP:CD in the 6th game of the season to 15 minutes in 7th game of the season because the Magic want to give the opponent a different look or need a different skill set.

I leave the forum for a summer and we generally disagree more often then agree. I come back, and you are agreeable. What gives?

Mosely isn't going to do something different unless his hand is forced. Currently he is my "odd man out" but not the "oddest man". I just can't believe the wishful thinking that after 2 seasons of habit he suddenly changes.

The only credit I am going to give Mosely is his commitment to defense is worthy of praise. I just do not see him going 12 man deep so our favorite player gets minutes unless we are regularly blowing teams out.

[JoshuaPotter]

Also, how is Cole Anthony a "wing"? He's 6'1 and has played backup point guard on this roster since entering the league.

If you had to guess.... who do you think is on the chopping block for such a move? KCP, Franz, and Paolo are obviously off the table.

In the sense that he is a score-first backcourt player. I think that was the intended meaning.

and p.s. Anthony is not a PG in the same sense that Suggs is not a PG. Antonhy;s pass rate is aweful. He is a blackhole with the ball in his hand.

Ingles had a better apg line than Anthony. Eeh gads.

Suggs and Anthony COMBINED for 5.6 apg. Dennis Schröder and 14 other PGs had better stats than Suggs and Anthony combined. That's not cool.

I would agree with your assessment if Cole Anthony could guard wings. He can’t. He’s relegated to playing 1 total position because he’s shorter than even me. He gets targeted on defense regularly. He looked BAD in dual pg lineups next to Fultz last season. He has zero positional versatility.

There are point guards that aren’t great distributors. They are score first point guards… doesn’t change the fact that they are point guards… Cole Anthony isn’t a “wing” because he isn’t racking up high assist numbers.

Except for maybe Goga, Cole Anthony is the least flexible player on the roster. You can argue that anyone else can play potentially multiple positions in positionless basketball. Yet Cole doesn't fit this mold. At best, his is a PG who guards the shortest guy. Or you force him into a SG role if you can regularly pair him up with Suggs. But this doesn't mean i like it.

[Knightro]

I'm very confident the following 9 players will, if healthy, open the season in the rotation...

Suggs, KCP, Franz, Paolo, Carter
Cole, Harris, Isaac, Moritz

The only question for me is the 10th spot. I think it's either Black in a three-guard situation or it's TDS as the backup SF. I don't believe Jett or Caleb are in the mix for a rotation spot right now.

If any of Suggs/KCP/Cole/Gary miss games, Black gets the minutes

If any of Franz/Paolo/Isaac miss games, TDS gets the minutes

If either of Carter/Moritz miss games, Goga gets the minutes

If multiple of Suggs/KCP/Cole/Gary miss games or Black is unavailable, Jett would get the minutes

If multiple of Franz/Paolo/Isaac miss games or TDS is unavailable, Caleb would get the minutes

Etc.

[RichCollab]

I'm very confident the following 9 players will, if healthy, open the season in the rotation...

Suggs, KCP, Franz, Paolo, Carter
Cole, Harris, Isaac, Moritz

The only question for me is the 10th spot. I think it's either Black in a three-guard situation or it's TDS as the backup SF. I don't believe Jett or Caleb are in the mix for a rotation spot right now.

If any of Suggs/KCP/Cole/Gary miss games, Black gets the minutes

If any of Franz/Paolo/Isaac miss games, TDS gets the minutes

If either of Carter/Moritz miss games, Goga gets the minutes

If multiple of Suggs/KCP/Cole/Gary miss games or Black is unavailable, Jett would get the minutes

If multiple of Franz/Paolo/Isaac miss games or TDS is unavailable, Caleb would get the minutes

Etc.

Harris is a contract we attach in a trade. We reduced his pay 5 million a year and had him waive his no trade clause. Harris is an easy guard to plug in but again we have no investment in him and he seems the easiest to displace.

Harris may start in rotation but TDS or Jett show signs he is moved to the bench only as an insurance policy.

[eyriq]

Orlando has five players on an Exhibit 10 contract – Mac McClung, Javonte Smart, Ethan Thompson, Jarrett Culver and Jalen Slawson.

Two of them will join Queen, right?

This is another nice subplot to track.

[SOUL]

Mose is way more flexible than people are giving credit for, but his job is to help the team win games, which he has done, while instilling a culture, which he has done (#2-3 defense as one of the youngest teams) - it's not playing a 13 deep roster to appease fans who still want young guys to get as much chances as they did when we had no skin in the game.

Front offices and coaches also get together during the offseason to discuss plans of action for the team and players. It would not surprise me if there was an earlier workload for specific guys early on in the season, and if they can handle it, they would earn those minutes. Other guys would get opportunities versus specific teams, etc. It would not surprise me to see healthy scratches or "rest days" for specific vets on the team.

It would be nice if every young guy, including Black, Jett and TDS all played great and were plus rotational guys and all hit their stride at once, history shows that very little teams have every single young guy clicking at the same time and we will need the depth on this team. It's also good that we can consolidate and make room for young guys, or trade people if we truly don't believe in them, but that's on the front office to make that move when it's needed.

[drsd]

I would agree with your assessment if Cole Anthony could guard wings. He can’t. He’s relegated to playing 1 total position because he’s shorter than even me. He gets targeted on defense regularly. He looked BAD in dual pg lineups next to Fultz last season. He has zero positional versatility.

There are point guards that aren’t great distributors. They are score first point guards… doesn’t change the fact that they are point guards… Cole Anthony isn’t a “wing” because he isn’t racking up high assist numbers.

I don't think Anthony is "a wing". I think the original post that led to this thought line was using "wing" to mean "backcourt player".


Look: Anthony often has to guard SGs in the rotations he plays in, and does poorly there. ANd he gets smoked by attacking PGs.

Anthony is a bad defender against all the heights.