Official 2025 Offseason Thread

[tiderulz]

Twist narrative as much as you want, reality is different.

Being in charge of same team from 8 years, and systematically ignoring PG position, the most important position in basketball from day one to present day (finally) caught up with Weltman.

What all the contenders this year had in common? Star guard. Who plays in finals? Two out of top 5-ish best PGs in nba. Who is MVP - guard. Among top 4 best players in the world- 2 are guards.


The way he sorted up contracts tells you a lot.

2024-25 salary floor was $140M, luxury tax was $170M. He went right in between with $154M

2025-26 salary cap projection was $154M, luxury tax at $188M, first apron $195M

Magic would be $186M team with 11 guaranteed players + Moe Wagner ($186M total) + Houstan (2,1M) = $ 189 034 241.
Draft pick + fillers= right at a verge of first apron, or slightly at first apron.


Going forward, looking at cap, he also handed so many team options to squeeze whole group into 2026-27 to once again stay at first apron or bit above it, once Banchero's contract kicks in.


Now most important question is why.

Given how team was constructed and how he rushed to resign Carter, Goga, Harris, Moe , Isaac only logical conclusion is : he thought he has contending team on his hands last summer.

And this is where whole plan goes off the grid.

Yes, they won 47 games. Being fully healthy. And still lost in first round. Winning 47 games wasn't anything special, that record wasn't even top 10 in nba. This year on West 47 games wasn't enough to make playoffs.
He turned blind eye on how those 47 wins were collected. By beating s***y team and sucking against good teams all the time.

47 wins team that is re-signing everybody probably shouldn't have 19-28 record vs winning teams if goal is contend. Because in playoffs you probably won't meet 16-66 Wizards in first round.
Half of a roster had career years and team was still not good enough to win playoff series. Mind you, not some uber elite opponent, rather team that will get bounced in next round in 5 games.


Next season starts, people get hurt, Magic continue to suck against good teams. 12-25. Wins go from 47 to 41.
Mid season trade deadline passes by. Nothing on roster is fixed. It's just same group of overrated role players who got overpaid declining ("shocking" ) after playing above their heads in contract years as they reverting back to pumpkins.
Playoffs roll, offense is disaster, Celtics managed to sit out two starters and beat you, you have nothing from bench. Same Celtics, but with Jrue, are eliminated in very next round. Once again proving Magic opponent in playoffs wasn't that impressive at all. (by the time Tatum got hurt, Celtics were already down 3-1 ).



And now, after ignoring PG position for 8 years, after squeezing $71M in cap space for PF/C position in 24-25 alone (Goga, Carter, Banchero, Isaac and Moe) you come to realization you have no PG but also not starting C ? Tough f***ing luck.

Teams low blowed you at deadline ? Tough f****ing luck.

Not doing your job for 8 years, sniffing nose, pretending to be smartest person in nba, with 0 playoff series won, 6 out of 8 losing seasons, doing parade with Jabari Smith thinking you are new Danny Ainge, not picking up calls, telling people how draft flattened out as other teams pull playoff starters after you, using second round picks as cannon fodders, missing on multiple superstar star guards in every second draft you FINALLY have to make sense of your rosters ? How da f*** this clown kept job for near decade?

And here we are talking about some bum from 18-64 Wizards who got K.O.ed by Draymoond Green.
Talking about some D level role players and Colin Sexton who's best part of his game is his prefix of his surname.

Daydreaming about Derrick White , who this moron could have drafted in 2017 but remember folks, 25# pick in 2017 flattened out = Derrick White 29# pick from same draft

Spoiler:

But no. From 2019- 2024 we had to pretend Fultz is " all star we had all along" because as*sniffer has too fragile ego to admit trade f**k up, man up, and move on.

And now you are telling me he has to make multiple trades and new salary allocation after spending 8 years doing below minimum ?

Same guy who drafted Okeke at 15# just to avoid paying another guy ?
Now your FA target is NAW? Now folks talk about Jordan Poole and Ty Jerome? Guess what ? He could have drafted ALL OF THEM but he drafted only guy who agreed to not sign nba contract. Because that was only important part of that draft for him


How about Ayo, McBride, Herb Jones, Brandon Boston Jr, or Aaron Wiggins? Would be handy ? Well tough f***ing luck, he traded 33# pick for 2026- second round pick (Pistons) .

FFS we talk about guy who drafted Bamba over Shai and MIkal Bridges on team with 0 guards.

He didn't even want to rebuild, players just walked out on him and he landed good return in trade-outs in Franz, got lucky and won lottery and Banchero. Take Franz out of this roster and floor and ceiling would be 40 wins.

I agree with a lot of that, but there are some points I think they looked at.

yes, 47 win team. but a very very young team. They obviously were banking on development and growth. Having big injuries to Paolo and Suggs and Moe hurt big time. Also, it was a career year from Suggs, but he is so young in his career they didnt think that it was only a career year. Its very different than a 10 yr vet having a great year. I agree there was a rush to sign WCJ, and personally I wouldnt have done that. There wasnt a rush for Goga, they let him sit out there for awhile. And his deal isnt a bad one at all. I would have liked to see more from him, especially after Moe got hurt.

Isaac and Harris, they need to be moved or this front office will keep them until retirement.

I agree with you on the draft stuff. I pounded the desk for Ayo and Herb. This front office wastes 2nd round picks. and I bet we trade one of the 1st round picks and the 2nd round for "future picks" or cash.

[eyriq]

Twist narrative as much as you want, reality is different.

Being in charge of same team from 8 years, and systematically ignoring PG position, the most important position in basketball from day one to present day (finally) caught up with Weltman.

What all the contenders this year had in common? Star guard. Who plays in finals? Two out of top 5-ish best PGs in nba. Who is MVP - guard. Among top 4 best players in the world- 2 are guards.


The way he sorted up contracts tells you a lot.

2024-25 salary floor was $140M, luxury tax was $170M. He went right in between with $154M

2025-26 salary cap projection was $154M, luxury tax at $188M, first apron $195M

Magic would be $186M team with 11 guaranteed players + Moe Wagner ($186M total) + Houstan (2,1M) = $ 189 034 241.
Draft pick + fillers= right at a verge of first apron, or slightly at first apron.


Going forward, looking at cap, he also handed so many team options to squeeze whole group into 2026-27 to once again stay at first apron or bit above it, once Banchero's contract kicks in.


Now most important question is why.

Given how team was constructed and how he rushed to resign Carter, Goga, Harris, Moe , Isaac only logical conclusion is : he thought he has contending team on his hands last summer.

And this is where whole plan goes off the grid.

Yes, they won 47 games. Being fully healthy. And still lost in first round. Winning 47 games wasn't anything special, that record wasn't even top 10 in nba. This year on West 47 games wasn't enough to make playoffs.
He turned blind eye on how those 47 wins were collected. By beating s***y team and sucking against good teams all the time.

47 wins team that is re-signing everybody probably shouldn't have 19-28 record vs winning teams if goal is contend. Because in playoffs you probably won't meet 16-66 Wizards in first round.
Half of a roster had career years and team was still not good enough to win playoff series. Mind you, not some uber elite opponent, rather team that will get bounced in next round in 5 games.


Next season starts, people get hurt, Magic continue to suck against good teams. 12-25. Wins go from 47 to 41.
Mid season trade deadline passes by. Nothing on roster is fixed. It's just same group of overrated role players who got overpaid declining ("shocking" ) after playing above their heads in contract years as they reverting back to pumpkins.
Playoffs roll, offense is disaster, Celtics managed to sit out two starters and beat you, you have nothing from bench. Same Celtics, but with Jrue, are eliminated in very next round. Once again proving Magic opponent in playoffs wasn't that impressive at all. (by the time Tatum got hurt, Celtics were already down 3-1 ).



And now, after ignoring PG position for 8 years, after squeezing $71M in cap space for PF/C position in 24-25 alone (Goga, Carter, Banchero, Isaac and Moe) you come to realization you have no PG but also not starting C ? Tough f***ing luck.

Teams low blowed you at deadline ? Tough f****ing luck.

Not doing your job for 8 years, sniffing nose, pretending to be smartest person in nba, with 0 playoff series won, 6 out of 8 losing seasons, doing parade with Jabari Smith thinking you are new Danny Ainge, not picking up calls, telling people how draft flattened out as other teams pull playoff starters after you, using second round picks as cannon fodders, missing on multiple superstar star guards in every second draft you FINALLY have to make sense of your rosters ? How da f*** this clown kept job for near decade?

And here we are talking about some bum from 18-64 Wizards who got K.O.ed by Draymoond Green.
Talking about some D level role players and Colin Sexton who's best part of his game is his prefix of his surname.

Daydreaming about Derrick White , who this moron could have drafted in 2017 but remember folks, 25# pick in 2017 flattened out = Derrick White 29# pick from same draft

Spoiler:

But no. From 2019- 2024 we had to pretend Fultz is " all star we had all along" because as*sniffer has too fragile ego to admit trade f**k up, man up, and move on.

And now you are telling me he has to make multiple trades and new salary allocation after spending 8 years doing below minimum ?

Same guy who drafted Okeke at 15# just to avoid paying another guy ?
Now your FA target is NAW? Now folks talk about Jordan Poole and Ty Jerome? Guess what ? He could have drafted ALL OF THEM but he drafted only guy who agreed to not sign nba contract. Because that was only important part of that draft for him


How about Ayo, McBride, Herb Jones, Brandon Boston Jr, or Aaron Wiggins? Would be handy ? Well tough f***ing luck, he traded 33# pick for 2026- second round pick (Pistons) .

FFS we talk about guy who drafted Bamba over Shai and MIkal Bridges on team with 0 guards.

He didn't even want to rebuild, players just walked out on him and he landed good return in trade-outs in Franz, got lucky and won lottery and Banchero. Take Franz out of this roster and floor and ceiling would be 40 wins.

This entire narrative misrepresents what actually happened. Weltman never believed the 47-win team was a contender. He understood the roster was ahead of schedule in development and opted for continuity to assess the core with moderate, flexible upgrades. That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

[Fortune Teller]

Twist narrative as much as you want, reality is different.

Being in charge of same team from 8 years, and systematically ignoring PG position, the most important position in basketball from day one to present day (finally) caught up with Weltman.

What all the contenders this year had in common? Star guard. Who plays in finals? Two out of top 5-ish best PGs in nba. Who is MVP - guard. Among top 4 best players in the world- 2 are guards.


The way he sorted up contracts tells you a lot.

2024-25 salary floor was $140M, luxury tax was $170M. He went right in between with $154M

2025-26 salary cap projection was $154M, luxury tax at $188M, first apron $195M

Magic would be $186M team with 11 guaranteed players + Moe Wagner ($186M total) + Houstan (2,1M) = $ 189 034 241.
Draft pick + fillers= right at a verge of first apron, or slightly at first apron.


Going forward, looking at cap, he also handed so many team options to squeeze whole group into 2026-27 to once again stay at first apron or bit above it, once Banchero's contract kicks in.


Now most important question is why.

Given how team was constructed and how he rushed to resign Carter, Goga, Harris, Moe , Isaac only logical conclusion is : he thought he has contending team on his hands last summer.

And this is where whole plan goes off the grid.

Yes, they won 47 games. Being fully healthy. And still lost in first round. Winning 47 games wasn't anything special, that record wasn't even top 10 in nba. This year on West 47 games wasn't enough to make playoffs.
He turned blind eye on how those 47 wins were collected. By beating s***y team and sucking against good teams all the time.

47 wins team that is re-signing everybody probably shouldn't have 19-28 record vs winning teams if goal is contend. Because in playoffs you probably won't meet 16-66 Wizards in first round.
Half of a roster had career years and team was still not good enough to win playoff series. Mind you, not some uber elite opponent, rather team that will get bounced in next round in 5 games.


Next season starts, people get hurt, Magic continue to suck against good teams. 12-25. Wins go from 47 to 41.
Mid season trade deadline passes by. Nothing on roster is fixed. It's just same group of overrated role players who got overpaid declining ("shocking" ) after playing above their heads in contract years as they reverting back to pumpkins.
Playoffs roll, offense is disaster, Celtics managed to sit out two starters and beat you, you have nothing from bench. Same Celtics, but with Jrue, are eliminated in very next round. Once again proving Magic opponent in playoffs wasn't that impressive at all. (by the time Tatum got hurt, Celtics were already down 3-1 ).



And now, after ignoring PG position for 8 years, after squeezing $71M in cap space for PF/C position in 24-25 alone (Goga, Carter, Banchero, Isaac and Moe) you come to realization you have no PG but also not starting C ? Tough f***ing luck.

Teams low blowed you at deadline ? Tough f****ing luck.

Not doing your job for 8 years, sniffing nose, pretending to be smartest person in nba, with 0 playoff series won, 6 out of 8 losing seasons, doing parade with Jabari Smith thinking you are new Danny Ainge, not picking up calls, telling people how draft flattened out as other teams pull playoff starters after you, using second round picks as cannon fodders, missing on multiple superstar star guards in every second draft you FINALLY have to make sense of your rosters ? How da f*** this clown kept job for near decade?

And here we are talking about some bum from 18-64 Wizards who got K.O.ed by Draymoond Green.
Talking about some D level role players and Colin Sexton who's best part of his game is his prefix of his surname.

Daydreaming about Derrick White , who this moron could have drafted in 2017 but remember folks, 25# pick in 2017 flattened out = Derrick White 29# pick from same draft

Spoiler:

But no. From 2019- 2024 we had to pretend Fultz is " all star we had all along" because as*sniffer has too fragile ego to admit trade f**k up, man up, and move on.

And now you are telling me he has to make multiple trades and new salary allocation after spending 8 years doing below minimum ?

Same guy who drafted Okeke at 15# just to avoid paying another guy ?
Now your FA target is NAW? Now folks talk about Jordan Poole and Ty Jerome? Guess what ? He could have drafted ALL OF THEM but he drafted only guy who agreed to not sign nba contract. Because that was only important part of that draft for him


How about Ayo, McBride, Herb Jones, Brandon Boston Jr, or Aaron Wiggins? Would be handy ? Well tough f***ing luck, he traded 33# pick for 2026- second round pick (Pistons) .

FFS we talk about guy who drafted Bamba over Shai and MIkal Bridges on team with 0 guards.

He didn't even want to rebuild, players just walked out on him and he landed good return in trade-outs in Franz, got lucky and won lottery and Banchero. Take Franz out of this roster and floor and ceiling would be 40 wins.

This entire narrative misrepresents what actually happened. Weltman never believed the 47-win team was a contender. He understood the roster was ahead of schedule in development and opted for continuity to assess the core with moderate, flexible upgrades. That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You don't "opt for continuity to assess the core" during your one and only cap space summer. To make matters worse, he carried that philosophy through the trade deadline, long after it was apparent that the core and its meager supporting cast were one injury away from being a play-in team at best. And if he really assessed the core, he would've noticed that the one injury was to a player who is rarely healthy, meaning the 24-25 season was predictable, and this really is a play-in team at best if it's Paolo, Franz and a bunch of scrubs with no guards.

[eyriq]

Twist narrative as much as you want, reality is different.

Being in charge of same team from 8 years, and systematically ignoring PG position, the most important position in basketball from day one to present day (finally) caught up with Weltman.

What all the contenders this year had in common? Star guard. Who plays in finals? Two out of top 5-ish best PGs in nba. Who is MVP - guard. Among top 4 best players in the world- 2 are guards.


The way he sorted up contracts tells you a lot.

2024-25 salary floor was $140M, luxury tax was $170M. He went right in between with $154M

2025-26 salary cap projection was $154M, luxury tax at $188M, first apron $195M

Magic would be $186M team with 11 guaranteed players + Moe Wagner ($186M total) + Houstan (2,1M) = $ 189 034 241.
Draft pick + fillers= right at a verge of first apron, or slightly at first apron.


Going forward, looking at cap, he also handed so many team options to squeeze whole group into 2026-27 to once again stay at first apron or bit above it, once Banchero's contract kicks in.


Now most important question is why.

Given how team was constructed and how he rushed to resign Carter, Goga, Harris, Moe , Isaac only logical conclusion is : he thought he has contending team on his hands last summer.

And this is where whole plan goes off the grid.

Yes, they won 47 games. Being fully healthy. And still lost in first round. Winning 47 games wasn't anything special, that record wasn't even top 10 in nba. This year on West 47 games wasn't enough to make playoffs.
He turned blind eye on how those 47 wins were collected. By beating s***y team and sucking against good teams all the time.

47 wins team that is re-signing everybody probably shouldn't have 19-28 record vs winning teams if goal is contend. Because in playoffs you probably won't meet 16-66 Wizards in first round.
Half of a roster had career years and team was still not good enough to win playoff series. Mind you, not some uber elite opponent, rather team that will get bounced in next round in 5 games.


Next season starts, people get hurt, Magic continue to suck against good teams. 12-25. Wins go from 47 to 41.
Mid season trade deadline passes by. Nothing on roster is fixed. It's just same group of overrated role players who got overpaid declining ("shocking" ) after playing above their heads in contract years as they reverting back to pumpkins.
Playoffs roll, offense is disaster, Celtics managed to sit out two starters and beat you, you have nothing from bench. Same Celtics, but with Jrue, are eliminated in very next round. Once again proving Magic opponent in playoffs wasn't that impressive at all. (by the time Tatum got hurt, Celtics were already down 3-1 ).



And now, after ignoring PG position for 8 years, after squeezing $71M in cap space for PF/C position in 24-25 alone (Goga, Carter, Banchero, Isaac and Moe) you come to realization you have no PG but also not starting C ? Tough f***ing luck.

Teams low blowed you at deadline ? Tough f****ing luck.

Not doing your job for 8 years, sniffing nose, pretending to be smartest person in nba, with 0 playoff series won, 6 out of 8 losing seasons, doing parade with Jabari Smith thinking you are new Danny Ainge, not picking up calls, telling people how draft flattened out as other teams pull playoff starters after you, using second round picks as cannon fodders, missing on multiple superstar star guards in every second draft you FINALLY have to make sense of your rosters ? How da f*** this clown kept job for near decade?

And here we are talking about some bum from 18-64 Wizards who got K.O.ed by Draymoond Green.
Talking about some D level role players and Colin Sexton who's best part of his game is his prefix of his surname.

Daydreaming about Derrick White , who this moron could have drafted in 2017 but remember folks, 25# pick in 2017 flattened out = Derrick White 29# pick from same draft

Spoiler:

But no. From 2019- 2024 we had to pretend Fultz is " all star we had all along" because as*sniffer has too fragile ego to admit trade f**k up, man up, and move on.

And now you are telling me he has to make multiple trades and new salary allocation after spending 8 years doing below minimum ?

Same guy who drafted Okeke at 15# just to avoid paying another guy ?
Now your FA target is NAW? Now folks talk about Jordan Poole and Ty Jerome? Guess what ? He could have drafted ALL OF THEM but he drafted only guy who agreed to not sign nba contract. Because that was only important part of that draft for him


How about Ayo, McBride, Herb Jones, Brandon Boston Jr, or Aaron Wiggins? Would be handy ? Well tough f***ing luck, he traded 33# pick for 2026- second round pick (Pistons) .

FFS we talk about guy who drafted Bamba over Shai and MIkal Bridges on team with 0 guards.

He didn't even want to rebuild, players just walked out on him and he landed good return in trade-outs in Franz, got lucky and won lottery and Banchero. Take Franz out of this roster and floor and ceiling would be 40 wins.

This entire narrative misrepresents what actually happened. Weltman never believed the 47-win team was a contender. He understood the roster was ahead of schedule in development and opted for continuity to assess the core with moderate, flexible upgrades. That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You don't "opt for continuity to assess the core" during your one and only cap space summer. To make matters worse, he carried that philosophy through the trade deadline, long after it was apparent that the core and its meager supporting cast were one injury away from being a play-in team at best. And if he really assessed the core, he would've noticed that the one injury was to a player who is rarely healthy, meaning the 24-25 season was predictable, and this really is a play-in team at best if it's Paolo, Franz and a bunch of scrubs with no guards.

Calling 2024 the "one and only" cap space summer ignores the basics. Orlando has multiple years of flexibility, young stars under team control, and a GM who chose continuity after a 47-win leap. Suggs getting hurt exposed the lack of depth, not the core itself. The issue was shooting and spacing, not some imaginary collapse of the roster.

[89Magicfan]

This entire narrative misrepresents what actually happened. Weltman never believed the 47-win team was a contender. He understood the roster was ahead of schedule in development and opted for continuity to assess the core with moderate, flexible upgrades. That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You don't "opt for continuity to assess the core" during your one and only cap space summer. To make matters worse, he carried that philosophy through the trade deadline, long after it was apparent that the core and its meager supporting cast were one injury away from being a play-in team at best. And if he really assessed the core, he would've noticed that the one injury was to a player who is rarely healthy, meaning the 24-25 season was predictable, and this really is a play-in team at best if it's Paolo, Franz and a bunch of scrubs with no guards.

Calling 2024 the "one and only" cap space summer ignores the basics. Orlando has multiple years of flexibility, young stars under team control, and a GM who chose continuity after a 47-win leap. Suggs getting hurt exposed the lack of depth, not the core itself. The issue was shooting and spacing, not some imaginary collapse of the roster.

Issue is much bigger than just shooting and spacing.

[VFX]

That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You keep saying this but you clearly don’t know what it means.

At no point in 4 seasons did Weltman kick the tires on trades to “build” the roster. He made zero adjustments in terms of attempting to find what was missing outside of the draft.

I’ve said this now a million times here… so I’ll put some emphasis on it this time in case anyone here misses it.

COLE ANTHONY
WENDELL CARTER
JONATHAN ISAAC
GARY HARRIS
MOE WAGNER

**You can add Markelle Fultz and Chuma Okeke to this list too.

WERE ALL HERE PRIOR TO THE CORE EXISTING.

Now…

Either YOU buy the idea that Weltman had the perfect bench, supporting cast, and role players here BEFORE he knew who the team was going to be built around, or you are a complete apologist not to be taken seriously whatsoever.

He didn’t “build” anything. He made draft selections after a Vucevic trade 4 years ago and added a career journeyman 4th option guy with a duplicative skillset next to his 3rd best player while his 4th best asset was displaced and relegated to bench time.

What’s more is that none of the players that I have listed have grown exponentially in asset value. They are middling and easily replaceable aside from maybe Moe. Weltman hasn’t even cultivated them as assets for that side of the argument to work.

This is a first apron team that has never moved any of those players for return assets. They walked.

And now 8-9 years into his tenure I have apologists telling me he’s been “building” kindly gtfoh.

[eyriq]

That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You keep saying this but you clearly don’t know what it means.

At no point in 4 seasons did Weltman kick the tires on trades to “build” the roster. He made zero adjustments in terms of attempting to find what was missing outside of the draft.

I’ve said this now a million times here… so I’ll put some emphasis on it this time in case anyone here misses it.

COLE ANTHONY
WENDELL CARTER
JONATHAN ISAAC
GARY HARRIS
MOE WAGNER

**You can add Markelle Fultz and Chuma Okeke to this list too.

WERE ALL HERE PRIOR TO THE CORE EXISTING.

Now…

Either YOU buy the idea that Weltman had the perfect bench, supporting cast, and role players here BEFORE he knew who the team was going to be built around, or you are a complete apologist not to be taken seriously whatsoever.

He didn’t “build” anything. He made draft selections after a Vucevic trade 4 years ago and added a career journeyman 4th option guy with a duplicative skillset next to his 3rd best player while his 4th best asset was displaced and relegated to bench time.

This is a first apron team that has never moved any of those players for return assets. They walked.

And now 8-9 years into his tenure I have apologists telling me he’s been “building” kindly gtfoh.

You're listing role players and pretending that proves a point. Let’s be serious, none of those guys are core pieces, they’re low-cost, low-risk contracts that filled gaps while the actual core was drafted and developed. That’s how responsible teams rebuild: control costs, stack picks, develop talent.

Suggs and AB were lottery picks. Paolo and Franz are All-Star caliber wings. That is the core, and it was built on a clear timeline. Extensions hit now, cap space narrows, and Weltman himself said the team is shifting into win-now mode. You calling that aimless is just bad faith. If you can’t distinguish between bridge pieces and a real build, maybe it’s time to stop pretending you're the only one paying attention.

[VFX]

That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You keep saying this but you clearly don’t know what it means.

At no point in 4 seasons did Weltman kick the tires on trades to “build” the roster. He made zero adjustments in terms of attempting to find what was missing outside of the draft.

I’ve said this now a million times here… so I’ll put some emphasis on it this time in case anyone here misses it.

COLE ANTHONY
WENDELL CARTER
JONATHAN ISAAC
GARY HARRIS
MOE WAGNER

**You can add Markelle Fultz and Chuma Okeke to this list too.

WERE ALL HERE PRIOR TO THE CORE EXISTING.

Now…

Either YOU buy the idea that Weltman had the perfect bench, supporting cast, and role players here BEFORE he knew who the team was going to be built around, or you are a complete apologist not to be taken seriously whatsoever.

He didn’t “build” anything. He made draft selections after a Vucevic trade 4 years ago and added a career journeyman 4th option guy with a duplicative skillset next to his 3rd best player while his 4th best asset was displaced and relegated to bench time.

This is a first apron team that has never moved any of those players for return assets. They walked.

And now 8-9 years into his tenure I have apologists telling me he’s been “building” kindly gtfoh.

You're listing role players and pretending that proves a point. Let’s be serious—none of those guys are core pieces, they’re low-cost, low-risk contracts that filled gaps while the actual core was drafted and developed. That’s how responsible teams rebuild: control costs, stack picks, develop talent.

Suggs and AB were lottery picks. Paolo and Franz are All-Star caliber wings. That is the core, and it was built on a clear timeline. Extensions hit now, cap space narrows, and Weltman himself said the team is shifting into win-now mode. You calling that aimless is just bad faith. If you can’t distinguish between bridge pieces and a real build, maybe it’s time to stop pretending you're the only one paying attention.

It does prove a point.

He hasn’t built anything. He’s made draft selections.

Half of the job of a small market GM is to MAKE TRADES. You cannot only acquire talent through the draft to create a roster that makes sense around your core. Free agency is rarely an option.

A GM that was actually building something would have been rotating some of these players out for a better fitting supporting cast around the core. He didn’t.

I planted this flag in another thread. The Pacers with their core 3 are a good team when healthy. Their starting 5 + 3-4 bench guys makes them a great team. Orlando has their 3 guys, no starting Point and no true starting Center. You are an APOLOGIST because that goes against your argument.

Moving those assets sooner made sense not only in terms of building value but in terms of finding better players to pair with the core. You cannot be taken seriously if you think “it was all part of the plan”.

[eyriq]

You don't "opt for continuity to assess the core" during your one and only cap space summer. To make matters worse, he carried that philosophy through the trade deadline, long after it was apparent that the core and its meager supporting cast were one injury away from being a play-in team at best. And if he really assessed the core, he would've noticed that the one injury was to a player who is rarely healthy, meaning the 24-25 season was predictable, and this really is a play-in team at best if it's Paolo, Franz and a bunch of scrubs with no guards.

Calling 2024 the "one and only" cap space summer ignores the basics. Orlando has multiple years of flexibility, young stars under team control, and a GM who chose continuity after a 47-win leap. Suggs getting hurt exposed the lack of depth, not the core itself. The issue was shooting and spacing, not some imaginary collapse of the roster.

Issue is much bigger than just shooting and spacing.

Absolutely fair to call that out. Shooting and spacing were obvious issues, but the broader problem was availability, Paolo, Franz, and Suggs all missed major chunks of the season. That throws off continuity, burdens role players, and makes the whole system look worse than it is. Health is a transient issue though, not necessarily something you overhaul a roster over—unless you think trading Suggs to improve reliability is worth the cost.

[89Magicfan]

That is a textbook approach to responsible team-building.

The cap sheet looked like one from a rebuilding team, not a contender. Most contracts are mid-level or below, preserving optionality. Drafting Suggs and AB in the lottery further proves the front office was building a wing-led offense supported by complementary backcourt playmaking. Now that the young core is maturing and extensions are due, Weltman has said this offseason marks a shift toward competing. That is not a mistake. It is the natural evolution of a rebuild done right.

You keep saying this but you clearly don’t know what it means.

At no point in 4 seasons did Weltman kick the tires on trades to “build” the roster. He made zero adjustments in terms of attempting to find what was missing outside of the draft.

I’ve said this now a million times here… so I’ll put some emphasis on it this time in case anyone here misses it.

COLE ANTHONY
WENDELL CARTER
JONATHAN ISAAC
GARY HARRIS
MOE WAGNER

**You can add Markelle Fultz and Chuma Okeke to this list too.

WERE ALL HERE PRIOR TO THE CORE EXISTING.

Now…

Either YOU buy the idea that Weltman had the perfect bench, supporting cast, and role players here BEFORE he knew who the team was going to be built around, or you are a complete apologist not to be taken seriously whatsoever.

He didn’t “build” anything. He made draft selections after a Vucevic trade 4 years ago and added a career journeyman 4th option guy with a duplicative skillset next to his 3rd best player while his 4th best asset was displaced and relegated to bench time.

This is a first apron team that has never moved any of those players for return assets. They walked.

And now 8-9 years into his tenure I have apologists telling me he’s been “building” kindly gtfoh.

You're listing role players and pretending that proves a point. Let’s be serious, none of those guys are core pieces, they’re low-cost, low-risk contracts that filled gaps while the actual core was drafted and developed. That’s how responsible teams rebuild: control costs, stack picks, develop talent.

Suggs and AB were lottery picks. Paolo and Franz are All-Star caliber wings. That is the core, and it was built on a clear timeline. Extensions hit now, cap space narrows, and Weltman himself said the team is shifting into win-now mode. You calling that aimless is just bad faith. If you can’t distinguish between bridge pieces and a real build, maybe it’s time to stop pretending you're the only one paying attention.

The fact that pieces of that core might have to be included in deals should tell you that Weltman did screw up last off season and deadline. Only saving grace maybe draft picks and teams salary issues but that’s a not ideal position with trade negotiations. It’s very limited and he even proves this by saying teams tried squeezing him at the deadline.

[eyriq]

You keep saying this but you clearly don’t know what it means.

At no point in 4 seasons did Weltman kick the tires on trades to “build” the roster. He made zero adjustments in terms of attempting to find what was missing outside of the draft.

I’ve said this now a million times here… so I’ll put some emphasis on it this time in case anyone here misses it.

COLE ANTHONY
WENDELL CARTER
JONATHAN ISAAC
GARY HARRIS
MOE WAGNER

**You can add Markelle Fultz and Chuma Okeke to this list too.

WERE ALL HERE PRIOR TO THE CORE EXISTING.

Now…

Either YOU buy the idea that Weltman had the perfect bench, supporting cast, and role players here BEFORE he knew who the team was going to be built around, or you are a complete apologist not to be taken seriously whatsoever.

He didn’t “build” anything. He made draft selections after a Vucevic trade 4 years ago and added a career journeyman 4th option guy with a duplicative skillset next to his 3rd best player while his 4th best asset was displaced and relegated to bench time.

This is a first apron team that has never moved any of those players for return assets. They walked.

And now 8-9 years into his tenure I have apologists telling me he’s been “building” kindly gtfoh.

You're listing role players and pretending that proves a point. Let’s be serious—none of those guys are core pieces, they’re low-cost, low-risk contracts that filled gaps while the actual core was drafted and developed. That’s how responsible teams rebuild: control costs, stack picks, develop talent.

Suggs and AB were lottery picks. Paolo and Franz are All-Star caliber wings. That is the core, and it was built on a clear timeline. Extensions hit now, cap space narrows, and Weltman himself said the team is shifting into win-now mode. You calling that aimless is just bad faith. If you can’t distinguish between bridge pieces and a real build, maybe it’s time to stop pretending you're the only one paying attention.

It does prove a point.

He hasn’t built anything. He’s made draft selections.

Half of the job of a small market GM is to MAKE TRADES. You cannot only acquire talent through the draft to create a roster that makes sense around your core. Free agency is rarely an option.

A GM that was actually building something would have been rotating some of these players out for a better fitting supporting cast around the core. He didn’t.

I planted this flag in another thread. The Pacers with their core 3 are a good team when healthy. Their starting 5 + 3-4 bench guys makes them a great team. Orlando has their 3 guys, no starting Point and no true starting Center. You are an APOLOGIST because that goes against your argument.

Moving those assets sooner made sense not only in terms of building value but in terms of finding better players to pair with the core. You cannot be taken seriously if you think “it was all part of the plan”.

You’re acting like every rebuild has to follow the same exact playbook. Weltman made the Vooch deal, nailed two top-10 picks with Paolo and Franz, added Suggs and AB as complementary pieces, and preserved cap flexibility along the way. That is building. The reason those depth guys stuck around is because they’re cheap, functional, and don’t compromise the long-term plan.

You point to Indiana like it’s a universal model, but they got Haliburton in a rare value trade and have taken swings of their own. Now Orlando is in the same phase, moving from accumulation to consolidation. If you’re still mad trades weren’t made during the rebuild phase, you’ve missed where we are in the cycle.

[89Magicfan]

Calling 2024 the "one and only" cap space summer ignores the basics. Orlando has multiple years of flexibility, young stars under team control, and a GM who chose continuity after a 47-win leap. Suggs getting hurt exposed the lack of depth, not the core itself. The issue was shooting and spacing, not some imaginary collapse of the roster.

Issue is much bigger than just shooting and spacing.

Absolutely fair to call that out. Shooting and spacing were obvious issues, but the broader problem was availability, Paolo, Franz, and Suggs all missed major chunks of the season. That throws off continuity, burdens role players, and makes the whole system look worse than it is. Health is a transient issue though, not necessarily something you overhaul a roster over—unless you think trading Suggs to improve reliability is worth the cost.

Not just availability. Our offensive issues were well documented even when healthy. In fact is highlighted because when the offense was somewhat decent we had guys outside of Paolo/Franz/Suggs who can make plays. Not just shoot. Actual play making such as Ingles.

Our offense has been an (not just shooting) problem for quite some time. He kicked the can too far down the road. I don’t think you fix this unless you include a core piece because the options that are being throw around if you don’t, doesn’t really address all the issues with the offense.

Sure you bring in Simons and opens up the floor but data says he still going to get shots in terrible situations. It’s our biggest issue we don’t have a legit table setter. Paolo/Franz with their uber high usage are not good enough to be full time table setters. They are good at it in specific situations but not full time. Simons himself isn’t a prime table setter. Oh he can do a little, but his main bread and butter is shooting.

You got to bring in a guy who can run this offense when **** goes south which it will. Shots won’t always fall. High usage players will just dribble the snot out of the 24 clock leading to bad shots. You need a skilled player who can shoot as well in that regard and right now it looks like only you can get that is by possibly trading a core piece or two.

[eyriq]

Issue is much bigger than just shooting and spacing.

Absolutely fair to call that out. Shooting and spacing were obvious issues, but the broader problem was availability, Paolo, Franz, and Suggs all missed major chunks of the season. That throws off continuity, burdens role players, and makes the whole system look worse than it is. Health is a transient issue though, not necessarily something you overhaul a roster over—unless you think trading Suggs to improve reliability is worth the cost.

Not just availability. Our offensive issues were well documented even when healthy. In fact is highlighted because when the offense was somewhat decent we had guys outside of Paolo/Franz/Suggs who can make plays. Not just shoot. Actual play making such as Ingles.

Our offense has been an (not just shooting) problem for quite some time. He kicked the can too far down the road. I don’t think you fix this unless you include a core piece because the options that are being throw around if you don’t, doesn’t really address all the issues with the offense.

Sure you bring in Simons and opens up the floor but data says he still going to get shots in terrible situations. It’s our biggest issue we don’t have a legit table setter. Paolo/Franz with their uber high usage are not good enough to be full time table setters. They are good at it in specific situations but not full time. Simons himself isn’t a prime table setter. Oh he can do a little, but his main bread and butter is shooting.

You got to bring in a guy who can run this offense when **** goes south which it will. Shots won’t always fall. High usage players will just dribble the snot out of the 24 clock leading to bad shots. You need a skilled player who can shoot as well in that regard and right now it looks like only you can get that is by possibly trading a core piece or two.

The offense is flawed by design because we're developing a wing-hub system built around Paolo and Franz. That's the long-term bet. High-usage wings need time to grow into decision-makers, and you don't stunt that by handing the keys to a table-setting guard just to smooth out the bumps. Ingles helped because he could pass, not because he ran the show. What this group needs is more complementary shooting and spacing to let the core breathe, not a system overhaul that reshapes the offense around someone else. You fix the margins, not the foundation.

[pepe1991]

Let this just sink in.

End of 2021-22 season.

Pacers 25-57 record
OKC 24-58 record
Magic 22-60 record

Magic - draft 1#
OKC drafts 3#
Pacers fall all the way to 6#


End of 2022-23 season
Pacers 35-47 record
OKC 40-42 record
Magic 33-47 record

Magic draft #6 and 11#
OKC drafts 10#
Pacers draft 8#


End of 2023-24 season
Pacers 47-35 record- ECF
OKC 57-25 record - WCF
Magic 47-35 record- first round exit


End of 2024-25
Pacers 50-32 record
OKC 68-24 record
Magic 41-41

Two teams in finals, one went home after 5 games.

Despite fact Magic had MORE lottery picks, BETTER POSITIONS in draft and collected more assets, Pacers and OKC beat them by simply being better managed teams.

But you sit there sucking Weltman's jock , after yet another season where he failed to improve roster, but this time around he wasted all the cap space so now you need to make trades to get out of this mess.

btw Magic were terrible offense during 47 wins season as well. Worst offense to make playoffs. This offense -related problems exist for years.
2021-22 - worst offense
2022-23- 5th worst offense
2023-24 - 9th worst offense
2024-25 -4th worst offense

But hey. Quick, resign Garry Harris and call it a summer as you continue on your "wing-hub" mental gymnastics to justify why "two great offensive talents" contribute to offensive rating on par with Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellise.
If mental gymnastics become olympic sport, Eric is bound for glory.

Reality strike: Magic offense sucks because Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero are NOT PLAYMAKERS NOR CAPABLE OF RUNNING EFFICIENT OFFENSE.
NBA point guards are most important positions in nba. Magic don't have any. That's why so many SMART General Managers seek for PGs first in rebuild, than continue, because it secures them better floor (and raises ceiling).

[drsd]

He hasn’t built anything.

Are you really gonna criticise the guy who brought in Ingles and Joseph in respective FA contracts????

[eyriq]

Let this just sink in.

End of 2021-22 season.

Pacers 25-57 record
OKC 24-58 record
Magic 22-60 record

Magic - draft 1#
OKC drafts 3#
Pacers fall all the way to 6#


End of 2022-23 season
Pacers 35-47 record
OKC 40-42 record
Magic 33-47 record

Magic draft #6 and 11#
OKC drafts 10#
Pacers draft 8#


End of 2023-24 season
Pacers 47-35 record- ECF
OKC 57-25 record - WCF
Magic 47-35 record- first round exit


End of 2024-25
Pacers 50-32 record
OKC 68-24 record
Magic 41-41

Two teams in finals, one went home after 5 games.

Despite fact Magic had MORE lottery picks, BETTER POSITIONS in draft and collected more assets, Pacers and OKC beat them by simply being better managed teams. It's almost like isn't just talent mine, but also very good pool to get assets from.

But you sit there sucking Weltman's jock , after yet another season where he failed to improve roster, but this time around he wasted all the cap space so now you need to make trades to get out of this mess.

btw Magic were terrible offense during 47 wins season as well. Worst offense to make playoffs. This offense -related problems exist for years.
2021-22 - worst offense
2022-23- 5th worst offense
2023-24 - 9th worst offense
2024-25 -4th worst offense

But hey. Quick, resign Garry Harris and call it a summer.

You’re ignoring the most obvious difference—age. SGA and Haliburton are in their primes. Paolo just turned 22. Indiana and OKC are where they are because their timelines demanded aggressive moves. Ours didn’t, until now. Weltman didn’t fail to act early. He waited until our core matured, and now that we’ve entered win-now mode, the timing is exactly right.

[SOUL]

Yeah pepe that's a bit hand-picked lol. There are other ways to convey Magic needing to do better. SGA is definitely in his prime and an MVP. And OKC definitely has way more assets to work with, they've been compiling them for YEARS.

Also think the equivalent of SGA/Hali/Siakam/Jdub missing months due to oblique injuries + having their 3rd/4th players out for the season halfway through (Turner/Nesmith/Caruso/Hartenstein) would have these teams looking a bit different in terms of compete level.

[eyriq]

Ranting about timelines like they’re all supposed to align, but somehow missed the basic fact that Paolo is 22 and just finishing year three. SGA is 26. Haliburton is 25. Their teams were supposed to hit sooner. Ours wasn’t. Pretending Orlando should’ve pushed chips in at the same time is how you end up misunderstanding a rebuild entirely. This offseason is when it’s supposed to happen...and it is.

[89Magicfan]

Absolutely fair to call that out. Shooting and spacing were obvious issues, but the broader problem was availability, Paolo, Franz, and Suggs all missed major chunks of the season. That throws off continuity, burdens role players, and makes the whole system look worse than it is. Health is a transient issue though, not necessarily something you overhaul a roster over—unless you think trading Suggs to improve reliability is worth the cost.

Not just availability. Our offensive issues were well documented even when healthy. In fact is highlighted because when the offense was somewhat decent we had guys outside of Paolo/Franz/Suggs who can make plays. Not just shoot. Actual play making such as Ingles.

Our offense has been an (not just shooting) problem for quite some time. He kicked the can too far down the road. I don’t think you fix this unless you include a core piece because the options that are being throw around if you don’t, doesn’t really address all the issues with the offense.

Sure you bring in Simons and opens up the floor but data says he still going to get shots in terrible situations. It’s our biggest issue we don’t have a legit table setter. Paolo/Franz with their uber high usage are not good enough to be full time table setters. They are good at it in specific situations but not full time. Simons himself isn’t a prime table setter. Oh he can do a little, but his main bread and butter is shooting.

You got to bring in a guy who can run this offense when **** goes south which it will. Shots won’t always fall. High usage players will just dribble the snot out of the 24 clock leading to bad shots. You need a skilled player who can shoot as well in that regard and right now it looks like only you can get that is by possibly trading a core piece or two.

The offense is flawed by design because we're developing a wing-hub system built around Paolo and Franz. That's the long-term bet. High-usage wings need time to grow into decision-makers, and you don't stunt that by handing the keys to a table-setting guard just to smooth out the bumps. Ingles helped because he could pass, not because he ran the show. What this group needs is more complementary shooting and spacing to let the core breathe, not a system overhaul that reshapes the offense around someone else. You fix the margins, not the foundation.

You don’t have to fix the foundation. Your foundation starts with Paolo who also wants a PG btw. Then it’s Franz

You don’t have to bring in someone who runs the show every possession. I don’t know why you’re thinking that bringing in someone who has that skill will turn Paolo and Franz into some door mat.

Plenty of PG’s can produce plays and take a backseat and allow their star scorer work. They just make their lives easier by putting them into the easiest positions to score which is Paolo main and best skill.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

so ready for this FO to bring in a guard so we can see how this offense might make sense for a normal basketball team in 2025