VFX wrote:zaymon wrote:VFX wrote:
This ultimately comes down to how he is utilized and folded into the current system.
Now do I believe Mosely is going to have Desmond Bane running offense and getting people into better positions for pick and roll opportunities? No. Paolo and Franz will be bringing up the ball a majority of the time.
Our info on how Bane is used was in one total system in Memphis as the main secondary option off of Ja. He will not be that guy in Orlando in my estimation. He will be the 3rd option, which is nice because it means less pressure on Suggs.
It’s not that I think he’s incapable of the things you listed. It’s that he won’t be tasked with a lot of it due to how things have been run here. And no, he isn’t a primary playmaker. It’s not like people list him as some dual threat combo guard like Harden, SGA, or something. He’s a 3&D guy with a little more in his bag than the average catch and shoot guy. Hes basically a much more elite offensively older Suggs from a season ago in terms of how he gets into spots and defensively.
I thought about what you and pepe said and Bane and his role.
We were and are in the same boat regarding a need for lead ball handler. Where we differ i guess is you think we should keep PB while adding lead ball handler while i think we can trade Banchero for a lead ball handler or build around him with more scoring oriented guard.
I just dont think adding a lead ball handler to Franz, Paolo and Jalen makes that much sense. We would pay two max contracts for off ball players ? So what we need from our guard ? 1. Shooting 2. Being able to perform pick and roll becouse it doesnt work well between Franz and Paolo 3. Making smart decisive decisions moving the ball 4. Not being a weak link defensively.
You can argue Bane is just good not elite in pick and roll and i get that but other options were Fox who wanted to play for Spurs is on the last year of his contract and will want a mx himself. Morant who is not for trade, small and not good shooter. Lillard who is old and injured. Curry who is not for trade. Maxey not for trade. Young small and expensive. Like what is the alternative ?
Even if we wanted to trade Banchero who is worth it and available ? SGA not. Haliburton not. Brunson not worth it. Curry old. Cunningham not.
Bane is propably good enough to relieve some pressure from them. Can be involved in pnr, hand offs, running off the screen. When we bank on PB and FW he just makes sense while not pretending to be a lead ball handler. (and he doesnt have to)
If things go south and both Paolo and Franz stagnate than we can trade one of them for a chance at better lead ball handler. We will recharge our picks just as Banchero enters his 27 year on this planet. Until then we can try with different iterations. We can trade Suggs. We can experiment with different centers.
tldr we can still be contenders while Bane is not a lead ball handler.
I'm going to respond to this post even though I know not many want to read a wall of text.
Anyway, you candidly brought up some sacred cows so here it goes.
I'm not a huge fan of Paolo Banchero. I don't like his game. I don't like traditional power forwards that aren't either terrific defenders OR don't stretch the floor reliably. He does neither. I also just don't like face up iso forwards that are not great finishers, effort rebounders, or both. Non versatile Power Forwards in my mind are basically a utility position unless they either possess all of the aforementioned abilities or are unstoppable scorers.
There are like 8 or 9 guys that are traditional non-versatile power forwards that are actually elite league wide (Giannis, AD, Sabonis, Mobely, JJJ, Siakam, Lauri) others are either multi positional as Centers or Small Forwards. I felt the same exact way about Aaron Gordon throughout the duration of his time here. Turns out he's a 3rd/4th option utility guy, which is exactly what I thought he was based on his skillset.
With Paolo he's basically all of those things I dislike. I said this since his days at Duke and despite all that I thought he was the best selection and fit for us in the draft at #1.
ANYWAY NOW with all that being said and getting to the crux of the discussion...
Orlando is not willingly going to trade him. I've just accepted that he is part of the future and Weltman's grand plan of position-less forwards and a defensive back court emulating Boston's blueprint MINUS the ability for either of them to shoot as well as that team, which kind of defeats the whole point but I digress.
Now because I have accepted this.. My theory here WAS that an actual point guard would have been able to get Paolo into better spots positionally so that scoring would come easier. Being able to catch and shoot or run actions to get him easier looks at the basket always made more sense to me than giving him a huge lane and watching him attempt to back down players into difficult shots. This comes at the expense of a more fluid ball movement system. Instead, guys stand around waiting to him to kick the ball their way. It just makes the offense either entirely predictable or a chaotic mess underneath the basket.
I've argued with others outside of this board, or other Magic echo chambers, about the best possible development arch for Paolo. Ultimately, I've come down to the idea that he just doesn't produce efficient enough offense on-ball the way he wants to in a half court. He's not relevant enough off-ball within this current system to matter. He needs the ball in his hands. Getting a playmaking point guard alleviates that reality, as well as a competent coach that knows how to draw things up for him within a real working system. Franz must be doing a lot more off-ball for this tandem to work the way Weltman wants it to and even then, it comes down to stretching the floor.
Well thats not happening now. We have now seen 3 or 4 iterations of various dual guard lineups. AB/Suggs , Gary/Suggs, Suggs/KCP, and Suggs/Bane soon. None of those combinations address the above concerns. They aren't playmakers that can build a system with those guys. They place those responsibilities at the feet of Paolo and Franz and enable them to do exactly what I don't think is effective basketball. Franz Wagner is kind of the X factor here because he can become a guy that plays more off-ball than he would probably like, while he can also develop better playmaking skills. To what degree is the question.
tldr; Bane is a good acquisition but I dont think it changes how things are run.
