2023 NBA Draft Thread 4

KillMonger · Post #921 » by **KillMonger** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:05 am

There are so many ways we can go.... You can make an argument for whatever prospect.... Also though if we plan to get a shooter via free agency that might change how we view things draft wise.... For example if we go after Gary Trent no need for gradey and maybe lively could be a nice pivot.... Or we could just trade out of the draft completely... Don't see it happening but we got so many options

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Ducklett · Post #922 » by **Ducklett** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:08 am

The only player I really want right this second is Cason Wallace. Dude will be in the league for a long time.

Second in the SEC in assists and fourth in steals. ~36% from 3. Seems like a guy all playoff teams need and want.

Post #923 » by **Bensational** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:24 am

I’m still convinced WeHam want Black at 6, but I can’t tell who they’ll want at 11. Dick Hawkins or Sensabaugh as a specialist shooter and scorer? Another playmaker like Wallace/JHS/Bufkin to crowd the backcourt? Coulibaly for the wing? Lively to add to a C spot which is already pretty solid? Leonard Miller or Jet Howard or Rupert as a wing forward?

Either way, Black is their guy at 6. If I could put money on it, I would.

basketballRob · Post #924 » by **basketballRob** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:40 am

Black at PG and Lively at Center.

They are the perfect players to enhance what Franz and Paolo do. Lively is a really good passer, and rim protector.

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thelead · Post #925 » by **thelead** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:02 am

I do wonder if Weltman would go all in for Scoot if he falls to 3. I just don’t think we have what Portland would want to trade down. A Fultz, WCJ, GHarris, 6, and 11 (maybe additional protected picks) for Scoot, Simon, Nurkic would be an interesting trade for us but I’m not sure it moves the needle for Dame’s timeline. It’s such a shame they out-tanked us at the end of the season.

A Scoot/Gradey draft would have been almost perfect for us.

jonbob17 · Post #926 » by **jonbob17** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:49 am

basketballRob wrote:Black at PG and Lively at Center.

They are the perfect players to enhance what Franz and Paolo do. Lively is a really good passer, and rim protector.

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Half the boards' head might explode if we choose two non-shooters. I do like it though.

I think Black is going to end up shooting, and Lively might be a sneaky shooter eventually too, though i am not making any bets on it.

jonbob17 · Post #927 » by **jonbob17** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:56 am

Bensational wrote:I’m still convinced WeHam want Black at 6, but I can’t tell who they’ll want at 11. Dick Hawkins or Sensabaugh as a specialist shooter and scorer? Another playmaker like Wallace/JHS/Bufkin to crowd the backcourt? Coulibaly for the wing? Lively to add to a C spot which is already pretty solid? Leonard Miller or Jet Howard or Rupert as a wing forward?

Either way, Black is their guy at 6. If I could put money on it, I would.

I have come to believe Black is the guy at 6. It's kind of hard to know who will be there at 11...I love Wallace, but its kind of hard to rationalize two guards, when we already have Suggs, and to a lesser degree Cole and MF.

Any chance Hendricks is the guy to fall...I don't know. I am fine with Gradey or Lively...do think it is possible they move that 11th pick for something that seems ridiculous to Magic fans, like a trade down for some rando future first that they view as a trade asset.

Black and Blue · Post #928 » by **Black and Blue** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 2:14 am

It seems a lot of you are convinced the Magic draft Black. I am hoping one of the Thompson twins or Whitmore is the pick (in my wildest dreams we trade up for Scoot to pair him with Franz and Paolo), but could see them going with Black if options are sparse. I selfishly want someone at the 1 or 2 who has that option of becoming a number 3 scoring option to help relieve that load and keep defenses honest.

Black is a gigantic project on offense, so know this going in. It’s going to be a Suggs-like long game of wincing while he attempts to shoot and teams playing off of him. If he is the choice, we’ll need to pair him with a sharpshooter to help keep people out of the lane.

Post #929 » by **SOUL** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 2:19 am

I'm not entirely sure Black will stick as a PG at the next level so I'm fine with him if we think everything else can come together as an Iguodala-level connector guy. Although the shooting would need to come from him or Suggs because they both can cause a lot of damage in the backcourt doing everything else, but not you could justify the amount of minutes on two guys who aren't average shooters long-term.

tiderulz · Post #930 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 2:49 am

basketballRob wrote:Black at PG and Lively at Center.

They are the perfect players to enhance what Franz and Paolo do. Lively is a really good passer, and rim protector.

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Lively at 11 is a massive overreach. shoot, Lively in the lottery period is an overreach.

Post #931 » by **SOUL** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:06 am

Sam Vecenie released his final big board, it's paywalled but interesting and I like it since he doesn't do group-think opinions. Some interesting notes below:

3. Cam Whitmore (above Miller, thinks he has elite upside as a scorer (25 ppg at his ceiling), but has to polish/improve certain parts of his game, mainly showcase passing ability and better feel in certain situations)
10. Dereck Lively (thinks he has all the defensive tools already, just needs to polish them, if he adds any offense at all the value is insane, high floor basically)
11. Kobe Bufkin (thinks he needs to develop off the bounce skills but loves him as a future starter and has two-way ability)
13. Leonard Miller (thinks his size/ability is rare and that he's super talented, team that takes him has to be patient)

lower on than most -

16. Gradey Dick (thinks between average athleticism (better than people he's been compared to, but average in the NBA), average measurables, below-average strength, thinks defense is a real concern but could be a steal if these things are worked on)
22. Nick Smith Jr. (needs to improve reads and driving, as well as defense, also shot badly but did enough as a HS prospect to still be intrigued by his ceiling)

I do notice he has a tendency to like toolsy players with more functional strength/size/upside and seems to be underrating a lot of guys who are potentially great at one specific skill (Dick, Hawkins, Sensabaugh, etc), but I do see why scouts would have more interest unless they do have a specific need, especially if some of these scorers have just as many holes as the toolsy non-shooter guys.

Post #932 » by **SOUL** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:10 am

Lively might be a Mitchell Robinson type which is for sure valuable in late lotto. It's just very niche so it's not that sexy for a lot of teams and it also means you have to have creators at other positions.. but we do have that to be fair.

Orlando Dawg · Post #933 » by **Orlando Dawg** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:12 am

That Sam guy thinks Gradey Dick is Pat Garrity (drafted 19th in 1998)

Cammo101 · Post #934 » by **Cammo101** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:12 am

tiderulz wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Black at PG and Lively at Center.

They are the perfect players to enhance what Franz and Paolo do. Lively is a really good passer, and rim protector.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Lively at 11 is a massive overreach. shoot, Lively in the lottery period is an overreach.

Lively is rising. At this point I'm not sure he makes it to pick #11.

Post #935 » by **SOUL** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:13 am

Oh and Keyonte George at 26.. yikes.. eyriq wouldn't be happy lol

89Magicfan · Post #936 » by **89Magicfan** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:17 am

I just don’t see it with Black. I’ve watched quite a few of his full games and I just don’t see this amazing passer/player. I see a solid player but I don’t see anything that suggests he’s a guy I’m taking at 6 or I guy that’s going to come in, make a team trade their PG’s and have him starting because he makes your team that good.

NothingButMagic · Post #937 » by **NothingButMagic** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:19 am

Skybox wrote:
NothingButMagic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Too old - low ceiling. I have a 2 week old grandson in the 90th size percentile. His dad shot around 50% from 3 at Lake Mary Prep - but he suffered from G. Harris selectiveness, so he wouldn't take a defended shot. I've already signed the prodigy up for Personal Training and have been slipping PEDs into his bottles...if they ever let me babysit unsupervised, I'll plant him in front of a loop of Larry Bird videos and plug him into a muscle stim machine.

Sorry, unrelated - my kid wants to go to Lake Mary Prep for middle school. How was your experience?

Very expensive...but great. I have 3 very different kids and they all thrived there. Never a worry. Great sports for a small school...but anybody can sign up. Lots of activities and solid academics as far as I could tell. It seemed very inclusive and diverse for a prep school. Some snobbery but not to the extent one might think...probably no worse than at local public schools in the area.

EDIT: I might not really know what "expensive" is...I never went to or really thought we'd do private school. I'm sure Highland is MUCH more.

Thanks so much for sharing! Highland is another potential option - I just fear snobbery... and price.

Post #938 » by **SOUL** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:20 am

89Magicfan wrote:I just don’t see it with Black. I’ve watched quite a few of his full games and I just don’t see this amazing passer/player. I see a solid player but I don’t see anything that suggests he’s a guy I’m taking at 6 or I guy that’s going to come in, make a team trade their PG’s and have him starting because he makes your team that good.

At 6 there's a lot of players who are going to have a lot of issues, or at least, players that need a lot more to go right to reach high ceilings, so it's about talent/fit/opportunity combined which makes it hard.

89Magicfan · Post #939 » by **89Magicfan** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:24 am

SOUL wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I just don’t see it with Black. I’ve watched quite a few of his full games and I just don’t see this amazing passer/player. I see a solid player but I don’t see anything that suggests he’s a guy I’m taking at 6 or I guy that’s going to come in, make a team trade their PG’s and have him starting because he makes your team that good.

At 6 there's a lot of players who are going to have a lot of issues, or at least, players that need a lot more to go right to reach high ceilings, so it's about talent/fit/opportunity combined which makes it hard.

Yeah but that’s not what I’m taking about. He just doesn’t do anything remarkable well offensively to me. Only thing that stood out to me was his hustle and defense but offensively, I see a very average player.

Post #940 » by **SOUL** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:27 am

89Magicfan wrote:Yeah but that’s not what I’m taking about. He just doesn’t do anything remarkable well offensively to me. Only thing that stood out to me was his hustle and defense but offensively, I see a very average player.

I think his FT drawing was at elite levels compared to some other prospects that have made it (I forgot where I saw it, but I think?) - but obviously his shot itself can be better. It's really all about the faith of how far their offensive games can develop and what would that player be worth combined with everything else even if it's not elite