Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

[basketballRob]

I think giving Fultz or Isaac extensions is a mistake. Both guys have had huge injury issues and Fultz has been mediocre at best when healthy. He might improve, but how about he actually go out and improve before getting a big contract. He had moments of brilliance last year but many moments that had you shaking your head.

As for Isaac, I like what I see when healthy. But he’s never healthy. I’m tired of people wanting to bank the future of the franchise on him.

I’m not saying either guy sucks or has to go or anything but I would take future financial flexibility over banking on often injured players who haven’t accomplished anything.

You can read tweet after tweet where Warriors fans were upset they gave Curry a 4 yr 44m deal. If Isaac played for an organization like the Heat or Celtics he'd already be extended.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[KillMonger]

i'm in favor of extensions for JI and Fultz sooner rather than later of course the price got to be right....but you don't want them to go to market for some other team to drive up the price.....try to get something team friendly done soon

[pepe1991]

I think giving Fultz or Isaac extensions is a mistake. Both guys have had huge injury issues and Fultz has been mediocre at best when healthy. He might improve, but how about he actually go out and improve before getting a big contract. He had moments of brilliance last year but many moments that had you shaking your head.

As for Isaac, I like what I see when healthy. But he’s never healthy. I’m tired of people wanting to bank the future of the franchise on him.

I’m not saying either guy sucks or has to go or anything but I would take future financial flexibility over banking on often injured players who haven’t accomplished anything.

You can read tweet after tweet where Warriors fans were upset they gave Curry a 4 yr 44m deal. If Isaac played for an organization like the Heat or Celtics he'd already be extended.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Jaylen showed A LOT of star flashes. He was also very healthy every year, missed just handful games in 3 years.
In year 2 in playoffs he avereaged 18 ppg of 56,3% TS on team that went to Eastern conference finals.
In year 3 he averaged 14 ppg but i assume Ainge knew team is just disfunctional due Irving situation and didn't take that as knock on Jaylen and his game.

As far as Curry goes, you found 1 tweet
Curry, after 3 years, and missing almost whole third year ( 26 games ) collected 180 games of regular season.
Markelle Fultz after 3 years collected- 105.

Markelle Fultz in 3 yeras in nba played 2676 min. Steph Curry in rookie year played 2896.

Not even gonna talk about quality of those min where Curry was 19 ppg ,59% TS player and already one of the best outside shooters ( 44,2% for 3 ) in year 2, where Fultz after 3 years is replacment level rotation PG.

I just don't see any objective reason why should anybody lock into mediocre non-shooter at PG and guy who will basically miss 2 years in a row.
Why rush? Let one play, other recover. Nobody is preparing max contract for any of them, even if somebody does, they are RFA, Magic can match whatever is offered.
And non of them with list of those injuries i takint qualifying offer and bets on themselfs, that's why players have menagers, to slap in face and tell them to stfu and sign contracts.

[tiderulz]

Two years ago Boston gave Jaylen Brown a 4 yr 107m dollar contract after he averaged 13 pts. Everyone here almost universally don't want to give Fultz a 4 yr 80m deal. I think it's a mistake and we're starting to look like a cheap organization that doesn't extend players.

Why would any player want to go here, when our M.O. is to never extend anyone? When was the last time a player got an extension at this Mickey Mouse place?

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

it was 1 year ago, not 2 years ago. and Brown showed more capabilities than Fultz. Im not at practices so i dont know what the coaches are seeing. If they think he is worth extending, then do it, but he doesnt command a 4 yr $80 mil deal right now. He hasnt shown that much. he was 12 ppg 5 apg as a starter.

[jonbob17]

The risk of not extending them is losing value. Isaac could be bid up by teams with excess cash next offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $25-30M next offseason, which then makes it a real question if the Magic match the offer. I think they would have to.
If Fultz can shoot the 3 ball at 33% on higher volume this year while also improving in other areas, like defense, he is going to get paid next offseason.

If we are able to lock Isaac in to something like $18M a year, while he is producing closer to $30M, then we are on to something. That is how you get a good team, by excess value/production over the salary cap. Same goes for Fultz. If we could get him at 13-15, and have him produce at something like $20M, it's a huge win, and $20M of production is probably like 15th best point guard territory.

Is it a risk? Of course. Every contract is a risk, you have to guess on development or decline (in older players). Almost every contract this offseason was a big risk. We have to spend our money on someone, it may as well be on players that have upside. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving JI $20M a year than Jerami Grant, or Fultz $13M than Rozier's $19M.

[tiderulz]

I think giving Fultz or Isaac extensions is a mistake. Both guys have had huge injury issues and Fultz has been mediocre at best when healthy. He might improve, but how about he actually go out and improve before getting a big contract. He had moments of brilliance last year but many moments that had you shaking your head.

As for Isaac, I like what I see when healthy. But he’s never healthy. I’m tired of people wanting to bank the future of the franchise on him.

I’m not saying either guy sucks or has to go or anything but I would take future financial flexibility over banking on often injured players who haven’t accomplished anything.

You can read tweet after tweet where Warriors fans were upset they gave Curry a 4 yr 44m deal. If Isaac played for an organization like the Heat or Celtics he'd already be extended.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Curry had shown a LOT more. he was 17/6 and 19/6 (and 44% from 3) his first 2 years in the league.

[tiderulz]

The risk of not extending them is losing value. Isaac could be bid up by teams with excess cash next offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $25-30M next offseason, which then makes it a real question if the Magic match the offer. I think they would have to.
If Fultz can shoot the 3 ball at 33% on higher volume this year while also improving in other areas, like defense, he is going to get paid next offseason.

If we are able to lock Isaac in to something like $18M a year, while he is producing closer to $30M, then we are on to something. That is how you get a good team, by excess value/production over the salary cap. Same goes for Fultz. If we could get him at 13-15, and have him produce at something like $20M, it's a huge win, and $20M of production is probably like 15th best point guard territory.

Is it a risk? Of course. Every contract is a risk, you have to guess on development or decline (in older players). Almost every contract this offseason was a big risk. We have to spend our money on someone, it may as well be on players that have upside. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving JI $20M a year than Jerami Grant, or Fultz $13M than Rozier's $19M.

I would be very surprised, because he cannot stay healthy. Isaac hasnt shown enough to land a $25-30 mil/yr type of contract.

[JBSouthpaw]

The risk of not extending them is losing value. Isaac could be bid up by teams with excess cash next offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $25-30M next offseason, which then makes it a real question if the Magic match the offer. I think they would have to.
If Fultz can shoot the 3 ball at 33% on higher volume this year while also improving in other areas, like defense, he is going to get paid next offseason.

If we are able to lock Isaac in to something like $18M a year, while he is producing closer to $30M, then we are on to something. That is how you get a good team, by excess value/production over the salary cap. Same goes for Fultz. If we could get him at 13-15, and have him produce at something like $20M, it's a huge win, and $20M of production is probably like 15th best point guard territory.

Is it a risk? Of course. Every contract is a risk, you have to guess on development or decline (in older players). Almost every contract this offseason was a big risk. We have to spend our money on someone, it may as well be on players that have upside. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving JI $20M a year than Jerami Grant, or Fultz $13M than Rozier's $19M.

I would be very surprised, because he cannot stay healthy. Isaac hasnt shown enough to land a $25-30 mil/yr type of contract.

Yeah, they both have enough question marks, I don't see a team going 20+ Mil on either. Good thing they'll be Restricted FA, no need to bid against ourselves.

[jonbob17]

The risk of not extending them is losing value. Isaac could be bid up by teams with excess cash next offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $25-30M next offseason, which then makes it a real question if the Magic match the offer. I think they would have to.
If Fultz can shoot the 3 ball at 33% on higher volume this year while also improving in other areas, like defense, he is going to get paid next offseason.

If we are able to lock Isaac in to something like $18M a year, while he is producing closer to $30M, then we are on to something. That is how you get a good team, by excess value/production over the salary cap. Same goes for Fultz. If we could get him at 13-15, and have him produce at something like $20M, it's a huge win, and $20M of production is probably like 15th best point guard territory.

Is it a risk? Of course. Every contract is a risk, you have to guess on development or decline (in older players). Almost every contract this offseason was a big risk. We have to spend our money on someone, it may as well be on players that have upside. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving JI $20M a year than Jerami Grant, or Fultz $13M than Rozier's $19M.

I would be very surprised, because he cannot stay healthy. Isaac hasnt shown enough to land a $25-30 mil/yr type of contract.

What has he had three injuries. A sprained ankle, a sprained/bruised knee, and the torn ACL. Basically the ACL is the only one of consequence at this point. Kristaps and Klay Thompson both got a max on blind ACL recoveries. These are probably a horrible examples to use for giving JI a new contract, but the point is teams are willing to bet on recovery. ACL is a common injury at this point, that usually result in full recoveries. Had he not gotten hurt he would probably been looking at close to the max, based on just last year, not any further development this year.

I am certainly not saying we should bid against ourselves, but next year we would be bidding against teams loaded up with cash. We saw what happened in FA this year when there was hardly any cash. JI at $18M would look like one of the best contracts this offseason comparatively.

[KillMonger]

The risk of not extending them is losing value. Isaac could be bid up by teams with excess cash next offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $25-30M next offseason, which then makes it a real question if the Magic match the offer. I think they would have to.
If Fultz can shoot the 3 ball at 33% on higher volume this year while also improving in other areas, like defense, he is going to get paid next offseason.

If we are able to lock Isaac in to something like $18M a year, while he is producing closer to $30M, then we are on to something. That is how you get a good team, by excess value/production over the salary cap. Same goes for Fultz. If we could get him at 13-15, and have him produce at something like $20M, it's a huge win, and $20M of production is probably like 15th best point guard territory.

Is it a risk? Of course. Every contract is a risk, you have to guess on development or decline (in older players). Almost every contract this offseason was a big risk. We have to spend our money on someone, it may as well be on players that have upside. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving JI $20M a year than Jerami Grant, or Fultz $13M than Rozier's $19M.

I would be very surprised, because he cannot stay healthy. Isaac hasnt shown enough to land a $25-30 mil/yr type of contract.

showed me enough for $17-25/yr range

[basketballRob]

I think giving Fultz or Isaac extensions is a mistake. Both guys have had huge injury issues and Fultz has been mediocre at best when healthy. He might improve, but how about he actually go out and improve before getting a big contract. He had moments of brilliance last year but many moments that had you shaking your head.

As for Isaac, I like what I see when healthy. But he’s never healthy. I’m tired of people wanting to bank the future of the franchise on him.

I’m not saying either guy sucks or has to go or anything but I would take future financial flexibility over banking on often injured players who haven’t accomplished anything.

You can read tweet after tweet where Warriors fans were upset they gave Curry a 4 yr 44m deal. If Isaac played for an organization like the Heat or Celtics he'd already be extended.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Jaylen showed A LOT of star flashes. He was also very healthy every year, missed just handful games in 3 years.
In year 2 in playoffs he avereaged 18 ppg of 56,3% TS on team that went to Eastern conference finals.
In year 3 he averaged 14 ppg but i assume Ainge knew team is just disfunctional due Irving situation and didn't take that as knock on Jaylen and his game.

As far as Curry goes, you found 1 tweet
Curry, after 3 years, and missing almost whole third year ( 26 games ) collected 180 games of regular season.
Markelle Fultz after 3 years collected- 105.

Markelle Fultz in 3 yeras in nba played 2676 min. Steph Curry in rookie year played 2896.

Not even gonna talk about quality of those min where Curry was 19 ppg ,59% TS player and already one of the best outside shooters ( 44,2% for 3 ) in year 2, where Fultz after 3 years is replacment level rotation PG.

I just don't see any objective reason why should anybody lock into mediocre non-shooter at PG and guy who will basically miss 2 years in a row.
Why rush? Let one play, other recover. Nobody is preparing max contract for any of them, even if somebody does, they are RFA, Magic can match whatever is offered.
And non of them with list of those injuries i takint qualifying offer and bets on themselfs, that's why players have menagers, to slap in face and tell them to stfu and sign contracts.

So are you saying Fultz should get 75% of what Brown got?

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

[Nyce_1]

Read on Twitter

[JBSouthpaw]

Read on Twitter

Never want anyone to be hurt, but it is good for Okeke! Glad he is cleared.

[j-ragg]

We were already #1 in the ultra important continuity rankings last year Cliff. How much more continuity improvement can you expect?

[j-ragg]

Bamba.... man. I will refrain from my typical rant because there’s a chance this is still him shaking off the covid cobwebs.

I hope he doesn’t go down as one of the biggest-wastes-of-an-NBA-body of all time. He’s skinny but IMO has a bigger frame than someone like Isaac to put on muscle. 3rd year is usually the big year young guys put it together, not off to a great start.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Clifford keeps hinting at this idea that it's going to be tough for Anthony and Okeke to get on the floor and if that's the case, really just kill me now.

[tiderulz]

The risk of not extending them is losing value. Isaac could be bid up by teams with excess cash next offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $25-30M next offseason, which then makes it a real question if the Magic match the offer. I think they would have to.
If Fultz can shoot the 3 ball at 33% on higher volume this year while also improving in other areas, like defense, he is going to get paid next offseason.

If we are able to lock Isaac in to something like $18M a year, while he is producing closer to $30M, then we are on to something. That is how you get a good team, by excess value/production over the salary cap. Same goes for Fultz. If we could get him at 13-15, and have him produce at something like $20M, it's a huge win, and $20M of production is probably like 15th best point guard territory.

Is it a risk? Of course. Every contract is a risk, you have to guess on development or decline (in older players). Almost every contract this offseason was a big risk. We have to spend our money on someone, it may as well be on players that have upside. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving JI $20M a year than Jerami Grant, or Fultz $13M than Rozier's $19M.

I would be very surprised, because he cannot stay healthy. Isaac hasnt shown enough to land a $25-30 mil/yr type of contract.

Yeah, they both have enough question marks, I don't see a team going 20+ Mil on either. Good thing they'll be Restricted FA, no need to bid against ourselves.

exactly. hopefully we get a discount like GS did with Curry with his injury issues.

[Tarheel]

Surprised that Aminu still isn't healthy. Clears minutes at the 4 for Okeke though, so we should get a good look at him from the off.

[Knightro]

If Aminu isn't cleared, then there's really nothing stopping Okeke from having a rotation spot from Day 1.

And that's a good thing, because he should be playing.