Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition

[tiderulz]

everyone gushing about Giddey. its preseason. i wasnt a fan of his coming into the draft (at least not as a lottery pick), easily admitted. Ill re-evaluate after 30-40 games

From NBL it’s night and day. Giddey is going to be bigger and taller than Lamelo (less zip, less special to me overall but it’s closer than people think). He’s grown noticeably. It’s a huge advantage imo

Great advertisement if all three including (RJ) become really really good NBA players. Might be bias but whatever but they play for keeps no funny business, it’s a very honest league. In fact it’s probably one of the best places for a youngster to go and play. Not necessarily for clout or anything like that but for young players to develop and mature properly.

Both were good finishers, so there’s no doubt he’ll be fine, the question for me is how good he’ll be. I have him as borderline All Star and the tiers as follows:

MVP tier:
Luka

All NBA/MVP like seasons:
Trae
Morant

All Star tier:
Lamelo

Borderline All Star/Appearances:
Garland
Giddey

PG spot is looking great for the future (tad jealous we don’t have one lol).

At minimum a 6”8” better shooting Rubio is way better than just a Rubio.

the NBL had league scoring leaders that couldnt make NBA rosters. the competition level just isnt very good.

[Xatticus]

everyone gushing about Giddey. its preseason. i wasnt a fan of his coming into the draft (at least not as a lottery pick), easily admitted. Ill re-evaluate after 30-40 games

From NBL it’s night and day. Giddey is going to be bigger and taller than Lamelo (less zip, less special to me overall but it’s closer than people think). He’s grown noticeably. It’s a huge advantage imo

Great advertisement if all three including (RJ) become really really good NBA players. Might be bias but whatever but they play for keeps no funny business, it’s a very honest league. In fact it’s probably one of the best places for a youngster to go and play. Not necessarily for clout or anything like that but for young players to develop and mature properly.

Both were good finishers, so there’s no doubt he’ll be fine, the question for me is how good he’ll be. I have him as borderline All Star and the tiers as follows:

MVP tier:
Luka

All NBA/MVP like seasons:
Trae
Morant

All Star tier:
Lamelo

Borderline All Star/Appearances:
Garland
Giddey

PG spot is looking great for the future (tad jealous we don’t have one lol).

At minimum a 6”8” better shooting Rubio is way better than just a Rubio.

the NBL had league scoring leaders that couldnt make NBA rosters. the competition level just isnt very good.

That really doesn't matter. You can't just douse every prospect simply because they aren't playing against the toughest competition. What he was doing in the NBL was exceptionally impressive given his age. I believe he was the league leader in assists and among the top rebounders in the league. He gets into the paint. He routinely puts pressure on the defense and his distribution is exceptional. He just understands the game. He's going to be a really valuable offensive player and he has plus plus size for a facilitator in the NBA.

The thing that will limit his upside is the defense. With a basketball IQ as high as his is, he should be able to force some turnovers, but that isn't there right now. He didn't do it in the NBL and he hasn't done it in the preseason. The team defense should be fine, but he might always be a liability at the point of attack. You won't be able to play him off of the court though, he is just too valuable offensively.

I thought last year's international crop was exceptional. You have to give credit to Presti and Stone for having the courage to go out and get the basketball players. Unorthodox packages scare most GMs. They like their prospects to look and quack like other NBA prospects.

[DCasey91]

everyone gushing about Giddey. its preseason. i wasnt a fan of his coming into the draft (at least not as a lottery pick), easily admitted. Ill re-evaluate after 30-40 games

From NBL it’s night and day. Giddey is going to be bigger and taller than Lamelo (less zip, less special to me overall but it’s closer than people think). He’s grown noticeably. It’s a huge advantage imo

Great advertisement if all three including (RJ) become really really good NBA players. Might be bias but whatever but they play for keeps no funny business, it’s a very honest league. In fact it’s probably one of the best places for a youngster to go and play. Not necessarily for clout or anything like that but for young players to develop and mature properly.

Both were good finishers, so there’s no doubt he’ll be fine, the question for me is how good he’ll be. I have him as borderline All Star and the tiers as follows:

MVP tier:
Luka

All NBA/MVP like seasons:
Trae
Morant

All Star tier:
Lamelo

Borderline All Star/Appearances:
Garland
Giddey

PG spot is looking great for the future (tad jealous we don’t have one lol).

At minimum a 6”8” better shooting Rubio is way better than just a Rubio.

the NBL had league scoring leaders that couldnt make NBA rosters. the competition level just isnt very good.

You do know prospects play mostly College AAU stuff right?

Euro second teams, Euroleague, NBL would dismantle College teams.

Most of the talent is in US, but there will be way better pathways for youngsters to actually acclimatize to Pro Ball (already happening).

NBA doesn’t have the domestic development equivalent to the Majors (which is perfect btw).

[tiderulz]

From NBL it’s night and day. Giddey is going to be bigger and taller than Lamelo (less zip, less special to me overall but it’s closer than people think). He’s grown noticeably. It’s a huge advantage imo

Great advertisement if all three including (RJ) become really really good NBA players. Might be bias but whatever but they play for keeps no funny business, it’s a very honest league. In fact it’s probably one of the best places for a youngster to go and play. Not necessarily for clout or anything like that but for young players to develop and mature properly.

Both were good finishers, so there’s no doubt he’ll be fine, the question for me is how good he’ll be. I have him as borderline All Star and the tiers as follows:

MVP tier:
Luka

All NBA/MVP like seasons:
Trae
Morant

All Star tier:
Lamelo

Borderline All Star/Appearances:
Garland
Giddey

PG spot is looking great for the future (tad jealous we don’t have one lol).

At minimum a 6”8” better shooting Rubio is way better than just a Rubio.

the NBL had league scoring leaders that couldnt make NBA rosters. the competition level just isnt very good.

That really doesn't matter. You can't just douse every prospect simply because they aren't playing against the toughest competition. What he was doing in the NBL was exceptionally impressive given his age. I believe he was the league leader in assists and among the top rebounders in the league. He gets into the paint. He routinely puts pressure on the defense and his distribution is exceptional. He just understands the game. He's going to be a really valuable offensive player and he has plus plus size for a facilitator in the NBA.

The thing that will limit his upside is the defense. With a basketball IQ as high as his is, he should be able to force some turnovers, but that isn't there right now. He didn't do it in the NBL and he hasn't done it in the preseason. The team defense should be fine, but he might always be a liability at the point of attack. You won't be able to play him off of the court though, he is just too valuable offensively.

I thought last year's international crop was exceptional. You have to give credit to Presti and Stone for having the courage to go out and get the basketball players. Unorthodox packages scare most GMs. They like their prospects to look and quack like other NBA prospects.

but it gives context. Players that were not good enough to make an NBA roster are leading scorers in that league. Does it mean they have not talent there? no. but it means i wont overestimate what a player can do from that league. The league's defense wasnt that good based on who could score there and his own defense was a problem.

[drsd]

lol ofc otto Porter out there averaging 15 ppg on 60% for 3 on other team

I would rather had seen the Magic resign Porter than sign Lopez. But it is what it is.


..

he is chasing a ring, he wasnt going to sign here unless we dropped bank on him

I would have questioned Porter's sanity if he had resigned. But one cannot think that Lopez is anything more than a placeholder of a roster slot. And a waste at that given the Magic's clear need for a forward over a big.

Wouldn't a "Torrey Craig" type be a better fit for this roster over Lopez???? (rhetoric)

..

[pepe1991]

I would rather had seen the Magic resign Porter than sign Lopez. But it is what it is.


..

he is chasing a ring, he wasnt going to sign here unless we dropped bank on him

I would have questioned Porter's sanity if he had resigned. But one cannot think that Lopez is anything more than a placeholder of a roster slot. And a waste at that given the Magic's clear need for a forward over a big.

Wouldn't a "Torrey Craig" type be a better fit for this roster over Lopez???? (rhetoric)

..

Otto is strange case tho, he is 28 years old. He indeed made s*** loud of money from past contract but looking at 28 years old player, agreeing to sign vets minimum is awkward to me. Is his health really that poor?
I highly doubt nobody offered anything more. Chasing rings is fine, but isn't he too young for that ?

Also amount of previously good players and/or big names- now vaiwed is big one. Magic could use half of those guys in better fashion they will have any usage of Robin Lopez ( or some other no-names)

Look at this list:
Stanley Johnson
Justin Jackson
Jordan Bell
Avery Bradley
Justin Anderson
Harry Giles III
Brandon Knight
Brandon Goodwin
Quin Cook
Jah Okafor
Luka Samanic

Fact we stock piled 4 centers and M. Wagner survived cut to ease-up F.Wagners transition shows where Magic are at. I saw some -sub 20 wins projections, roster decisions like this kind a explain why.

[drsd]

Look at this list:
Stanley Johnson
Justin Jackson
Jordan Bell
Avery Bradley
Justin Anderson
Harry Giles III
Brandon Knight
Brandon Goodwin
Quin Cook
Jah Okafor
Luka Samanic

Why did the Magic sign Lopez ???

M-Wagner makes sense both strategically, asset-wise (contract size) and for "upside" potential. But:

Stanley Johnson, forward at 2.1M
Justin Jackson, combo wing at LLE ??
Jordan Bell, combo big at 1.8M (rather have M-Wagner)
Avery Bradley, will be a LLE PG or out of the league
Justin Anderson, will be a LLE SG or out of the league
Harry Giles III, 1.7 combo big (rather have M-Wagner)
Brandon Knight, will be a LLE PG or out of the league
Brandon Goodwin, from the team that waived him alonside Mr. Bacon - no thanks.
Quin Cook, will be a LLE PG or out of the league
Jah Okafor, combo big at 1.9M (rather have M-Wagner)
Luka Samanic, upside PF on a LLE deal


Looking at your list is a little bith dperessing as to the "skill" level of players in the 400-500 range. But still a couple plauyers that should offer more to this team than Lopez.



EDIT: James Ennis is still on the market. Why not him over Lopez?
Or Noah Vonleh or Matt Ryan

..

[drsd]

... roster decisions like this kind a explain why.

When we fans yearn for a Carter-Williams return to create roster balance, there is a problem.



..

[SOUL]

WCJ and Bamba are both oft injured centers and Lopez is a good 3rd/2nd string guy in a pinch. Helps to have a few vets that have played a while and can help a bit in practice.

[pepe1991]

Look at this list:
Stanley Johnson
Justin Jackson
Jordan Bell
Avery Bradley
Justin Anderson
Harry Giles III
Brandon Knight
Brandon Goodwin
Quin Cook
Jah Okafor
Luka Samanic

Why did the Magic sign Lopez ???

M-Wagner makes sense both strategically, asset-wise (contract size) and for "upside" potential. But:

Stanley Johnson, forward at 2.1M
Justin Jackson, combo wing at LLE ??
Jordan Bell, combo big at 1.8M (rather have M-Wagner)
Avery Bradley, will be a LLE PG or out of the league
Justin Anderson, will be a LLE SG or out of the league
Harry Giles III, 1.7 combo big (rather have M-Wagner)
Brandon Knight, will be a LLE PG or out of the league
Brandon Goodwin, from the team that waived him alonside Mr. Bacon - no thanks.
Quin Cook, will be a LLE PG or out of the league
Jah Okafor, combo big at 1.9M (rather have M-Wagner)
Luka Samanic, upside PF on a LLE deal


Looking at your list is a little bith dperessing as to the "skill" level of players in the 400-500 range. But still a couple plauyers that should offer more to this team than Lopez.



EDIT: James Ennis is still on the market. Why not him over Lopez?
Or Noah Vonleh or Matt Ryan

..

Is M. Wagner really "uspide" player any more than Giles who once upon a time was 5 star recruit and viewed as best big in draft before all mess with injuries? Given Giles is one whole calendar year younger.
Or he is more of nba player than Thon Maker was?
Mo Wagner is very bad defender and on offense streach 5 who can't streach. Basically poor man Jason Smith.
Let's be honest, Mo Wagner is on roster to make Franz Wagner more comfortable. Nepotism ? Probably.

There is also question what execlly happend to Tyrell Terry and his career.
Before draft there was report that he is "smartest BBIQ player ever tested" whatever that test was. How he went from almost lottery pick , to second round pick- to out of nba in year and half?

late edit* Jabari Parker got vaiwed as well

[basketballRob]

Mo has been playing mostly PF.

I think the Magic could've signed some younger prospects, but they didn't want to clutter the roster with players that need minutes. I'm really surprised we signed Moore with all the guards we have.




Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[pepe1991]

according to serbian news , Jah Okafor is on verge of siging contract with Partizan Belgrade. If this goes through, and Stanley Johnson is also out of nba, it would mean that 4 out of top 8 picks from 2015 fizzled out in matter of 5 years.

I think i'll do deep dive into lottery picks 2011-2021 top 10 picks to see how many of them fizzle out, since "rebuild through draft" is still viewed as "right" way for many fans.

[basketballRob]

I doubt Jabari Parker ever plays another NBA game.

[drsd]

Is M. Wagner really "uspide" player any more than Giles who once upon a time was 5 star recruit and viewed as best big in draft before all mess with injuries? Given Giles is one whole calendar year younger.

Well at a LLE cost of 1.7, I really see this inconsequential.

Projections considering a championship contender:
Right now this team has two starters moving forward: Suggs and Isaac. And players that for most teams would project as very good bench players: Okeke, F-Wagner, Carter, and Hampton. A couple of those needs to get a lot better. And either Fultz or Bamba needs to show something, anything.

What could the future Magic look like ?


Will this team decide to go with a Suggs, Fultz, Hampton backcourt with Isaac and Carter? If so, then this is our future 9-man rotation for 2022/23:
Suggs/Anthony
Fultz
Hampton/F-Wagner
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/Bamba

What would be required in that to get to a 50-win roster?


..

[pepe1991]

Is M. Wagner really "uspide" player any more than Giles who once upon a time was 5 star recruit and viewed as best big in draft before all mess with injuries? Given Giles is one whole calendar year younger.

Well at a LLE cost of 1.7, I really see this inconsequential.

Projections considering a championship contender:
Right now this team has two starters moving forward: Suggs and Isaac. And players that for most teams would project as very good bench players: Okeke, F-Wagner, Carter, and Hampton. A couple of those needs to get a lot better. And either Fultz or Bamba needs to show something, anything.

What could the future Magic look like ?


Will this team decide to go with a Suggs, Fultz, Hampton backcourt with Isaac and Carter? If so, then this is our future 9-man rotation for 2022/23:
Suggs/Anthony
Fultz
Hampton/F-Wagner
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/Bamba

What would be required in that to get to a 50-win roster?


..

2 superstars

[JBSouthpaw]

Is M. Wagner really "uspide" player any more than Giles who once upon a time was 5 star recruit and viewed as best big in draft before all mess with injuries? Given Giles is one whole calendar year younger.

Well at a LLE cost of 1.7, I really see this inconsequential.

Projections considering a championship contender:
Right now this team has two starters moving forward: Suggs and Isaac. And players that for most teams would project as very good bench players: Okeke, F-Wagner, Carter, and Hampton. A couple of those needs to get a lot better. And either Fultz or Bamba needs to show something, anything.

What could the future Magic look like ?


Will this team decide to go with a Suggs, Fultz, Hampton backcourt with Isaac and Carter? If so, then this is our future 9-man rotation for 2022/23:
Suggs/Anthony
Fultz
Hampton/F-Wagner
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/Bamba

What would be required in that to get to a 50-win roster?


..

2 superstars

We'll have the cap space for at least 1!

[Optimus_Steel]

Giddey is much, much better than i thought, plesent suprise.

Giddey is looking like a home run pick. His ball handling alone makes him a very effective player for years to come.

[OrlChamps2030]

the NBL had league scoring leaders that couldnt make NBA rosters. the competition level just isnt very good.

That really doesn't matter. You can't just douse every prospect simply because they aren't playing against the toughest competition. What he was doing in the NBL was exceptionally impressive given his age. I believe he was the league leader in assists and among the top rebounders in the league. He gets into the paint. He routinely puts pressure on the defense and his distribution is exceptional. He just understands the game. He's going to be a really valuable offensive player and he has plus plus size for a facilitator in the NBA.

The thing that will limit his upside is the defense. With a basketball IQ as high as his is, he should be able to force some turnovers, but that isn't there right now. He didn't do it in the NBL and he hasn't done it in the preseason. The team defense should be fine, but he might always be a liability at the point of attack. You won't be able to play him off of the court though, he is just too valuable offensively.

I thought last year's international crop was exceptional. You have to give credit to Presti and Stone for having the courage to go out and get the basketball players. Unorthodox packages scare most GMs. They like their prospects to look and quack like other NBA prospects.

but it gives context. Players that were not good enough to make an NBA roster are leading scorers in that league. Does it mean they have not talent there? no. but it means i wont overestimate what a player can do from that league. The league's defense wasnt that good based on who could score there and his own defense was a problem.

The leading scorer in the ACC last season isn’t on a NBA roster. I don’t think that observation means as much as you’re making it. Plenty of great college players amounted to nothing at the professional level. That doesn’t mean that great NBA players can’t come from college.

The NBL is a quality international league (relatively), and performing well as an 18 year old against professional grown men is impressive IMO. LaMelo Ball just came from there.. Nice pick for OKC, I remember a lot of posters here were interested in Giddey.

[drsd]

Well at a LLE cost of 1.7, I really see this inconsequential.

Projections considering a championship contender:
Right now this team has two starters moving forward: Suggs and Isaac. And players that for most teams would project as very good bench players: Okeke, F-Wagner, Carter, and Hampton. A couple of those needs to get a lot better. And either Fultz or Bamba needs to show something, anything.

What could the future Magic look like ?


Will this team decide to go with a Suggs, Fultz, Hampton backcourt with Isaac and Carter? If so, then this is our future 9-man rotation for 2022/23:
Suggs/Anthony
Fultz
Hampton/F-Wagner
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/Bamba

What would be required in that to get to a 50-win roster?


..

2 superstars

We'll have the cap space for at least 1!

This is why I have hope. Given the Magic NEED for Suggs to be dominant, then a single FA signee can transform this team. The ifs are BIG and squared. But there is a chance.

[drsd]

according to serbian news , Jah Okafor is on verge of siging contract with Partizan Belgrade. If this goes through, and Stanley Johnson is also out of nba, it would mean that 4 out of top 8 picks from 2015 fizzled out in matter of 5 years.

I think i'll do deep dive into lottery picks 2011-2021 top 10 picks to see how many of them fizzle out, since "rebuild through draft" is still viewed as "right" way for many fans.

The Top-2 in the 2014 draft were both "can't miss". And, well, at this point Gordon would probably draft higher than Wiggins and Parker.


..