Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[eyriq]

Black has already improved since the beginning of the year and will keep making jumps over the next few seasons. He's our youngest draft pick since AG and Black has already surpassed him in stats. Black is doing it on a playoff team. Black will likely start next season.

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Bingo. Black is very underrated and underappreciated by this fan base

I'm all for starting him and saying "come what may" from here.

Unfortunately any losses whether directly the result of him or not will always go along the line of "what did you expect with a rookie point guard starting."

The great thing is that he's better than our other options

[JoshuaPotter]

Bingo. Black is very underrated and underappreciated by this fan base

I'm all for starting him and saying "come what may" from here.

Unfortunately any losses whether directly the result of him or not will always go along the line of "what did you expect with a rookie point guard starting."

The great thing is that he's better than our other options

We see that. I said it last year. Our "G" rotation is "nothing special" can likely be replaced by a pick.

I was surprised by the Harris / Suggs start last night. I think I understand the why, and Black certainly stepped up with a balanced stat sheet.

To me this is clearly a "play the winning hand" move by the coach. In poker 5 card draw. We have a pair of Aces and a low 2 pair with a 8. Now 8 is pretty high, but the odds of you drawing a higher card by putting the 8 down and hoping you get a better draw is essentially 50-50. So you stick with what you have.

The problem is AB is either another "8" card or potentially higher. That's just me. This was a fun analogy for me.

[OrlChamps2030]

AB has performed beyond expectations this season.

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Uhm no

13 points per 100 pos doesn't get it done for a team starved for scoring. Harkless-esq usage isn't what I was expecting for a point guard taken sixth who wasn't a huge scorer in college but wasn't really a slouch either.

Jamal Murray was the 7th pick, why can't our 6th puck score a bit like he could? Murray averaged 22 points per 100 poss as a rook.

Trae Young was the 5th pick, averaged 28 ppg per 100 as a rookie.

Josh Giddey, also a 6th pick overall and not known as a big scorer, averaged 19 points per 100 possessions as a rook.

We are not out of line to expect more returns after enduring such bad teams. We cannot normalize this underperformance as we basically have after 11 years.

I think Black is a solid player but I was expecting more.

Yeah unless you were expecting nothing Black has been a disappointment.

I’m not sure I’m ready to label Black as a disappointment.. but exceed expectations? What expectations are we talking about? He was the 6th pick and is averaging 5/2.

Was the expectation to make it through his rookie year alive and without getting arrested?

[fendilim]

Sign poku

[eyriq]

Uhm no

13 points per 100 pos doesn't get it done for a team starved for scoring. Harkless-esq usage isn't what I was expecting for a point guard taken sixth who wasn't a huge scorer in college but wasn't really a slouch either.

Jamal Murray was the 7th pick, why can't our 6th puck score a bit like he could? Murray averaged 22 points per 100 poss as a rook.

Trae Young was the 5th pick, averaged 28 ppg per 100 as a rookie.

Josh Giddey, also a 6th pick overall and not known as a big scorer, averaged 19 points per 100 possessions as a rook.

We are not out of line to expect more returns after enduring such bad teams. We cannot normalize this underperformance as we basically have after 11 years.

I think Black is a solid player but I was expecting more.

Yeah unless you were expecting nothing Black has been a disappointment.

I’m not sure I’m ready to label Black as a disappointment.. but exceed expectations? What expectations are we talking about? He was the 6th pick and is averaging 5/2.

Was the expectation to make it through his rookie year alive and without getting arrested?

What does defense mean to you? Genuine question.

[OrlChamps2030]

Yeah unless you were expecting nothing Black has been a disappointment.

I’m not sure I’m ready to label Black as a disappointment.. but exceed expectations? What expectations are we talking about? He was the 6th pick and is averaging 5/2.

Was the expectation to make it through his rookie year alive and without getting arrested?

What does defense mean to you? Genuine question.

I value it.. but we are talking about the expectations of a 6th pick.

There are countless guys with a great defensive EPM that I wouldn’t want to take with the 6th pick:

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

[eyriq]

I’m not sure I’m ready to label Black as a disappointment.. but exceed expectations? What expectations are we talking about? He was the 6th pick and is averaging 5/2.

Was the expectation to make it through his rookie year alive and without getting arrested?

What does defense mean to you? Genuine question.

I value it.. but we are talking about the expectations of a 6th pick.

There are countless guys with a great defensive EPM that I wouldn’t want to take with the 6th pick:

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Are they rookies?

[OrlChamps2030]

What does defense mean to you? Genuine question.

I value it.. but we are talking about the expectations of a 6th pick.

There are countless guys with a great defensive EPM that I wouldn’t want to take with the 6th pick:

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Are they rookies?

Some are, yes

I want no parts of Ausar at 6. By your standards though, he is far exceeding expectations.

Lively at 6… probably not.. Definitely exceeding expectations of the 12th pick though

Wemby at 6.. obviously haha

[eyriq]

I value it.. but we are talking about the expectations of a 6th pick.

There are countless guys with a great defensive EPM that I wouldn’t want to take with the 6th pick:

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Are they rookies?

Some are, yes

I want no parts of Ausar at 6. By your standards though, he is far exceeding expectations.

Lively at 6… maybe.. Definitely exceeding expectations of the 12th pick.

Wemby at 6.. obviously haha

Wemby is generational, Ausar is a stud, Lively is a stud. If you are good on defense as a rookie that's a great indicator of future success.

[JoshuaPotter]

Auser / Amen stat lines are identical. Very fun for twins.

Some of these comparisons and expectations are fairly off base IMHO.

[Knightro]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

[eyriq]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

[Knightro]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

Black has shown to be more adapt at catch and shoot threes than Markelle Fultz.

And that's about it so far offensively.

[basketballRob]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

He's underrated, just like the Magic, in my opinion. That usually happens when your calling card is your defense. You can look at the stats from last night and not see that Black played 10-15 minutes of good defense on Garland after Suggs went out. If Garland goes off, we probably don't win the game. That reminds me of Vuc's double doubles that look good on the stat sheet but not the win column.

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[eyriq]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

Black has shown to be more adapt at catch and shoot threes than Markelle Fultz.

And that's about it so far offensively.

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

[p0peye]

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

Black has shown to be more adapt at catch and shoot threes than Markelle Fultz.

And that's about it so far offensively.

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

Is Black objectively better than rookie Courtney Lee? Dude could defend AND was solid offensively, a starter on Finals team that shot 40% from distance.

[eyriq]

Black has shown to be more adapt at catch and shoot threes than Markelle Fultz.

And that's about it so far offensively.

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

Is Black objectively better than rookie Courtney Lee? Dude could defend AND was solid offensively, a starter on Finals team that shot 40% from distance.

Fair question. Courtney was drafted 22nd and was 23 years old. I'd say Black is clearly the better prospect, but rookie impact wise I'd give the nod to Courtney.

[VFX]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

People somehow forget Black is a super young rookie with a difficult skill set to translate as a point guard.

Sure, he cant guard up but he is still showing flashes. Theres an argument he will take another year to be a real starter.

[JoshuaPotter]

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

Is Black objectively better than rookie Courtney Lee? Dude could defend AND was solid offensively, a starter on Finals team that shot 40% from distance.

Fair question. Courtney was drafted 22nd and was 23 years old. I'd say Black is clearly the better prospect, but rookie impact wise I'd give the nod to Courtney.

Courtney also benefited from playing with the best C of his time period, with Lewis + Hedo very good "F" for their era.

Seriously, take the team we have now, and 20/10 monster at C. Suggs + Black have 3pt practice.

Courtney was the pure essence of 3&D but what he delivered next to the greatest center of his era was fundamentally the same he did as his "prime career stats".

As much as I would like a Courtney Lee on this team right now. I think his name is Houstan.

[Knightro]

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

Ok I want to clear up some misconceptions here...

I like Anthony Black.

I think he's a good prospect. I like his size. I like his quick hands. I like his quick feet. I think he has FANTASTIC defensive potential which is valuable and something a lot of people don't put enough stock into when making evaluations.

But right now he doesn't do anything offensively.

He barely shoots.

He barely dribbles.

Most possessions he runs over to a corner and just stands and if a pass doesn't come his way he just runs back the other direction. And if a pass does come his way, he doesn't shoot unless he's absolutely wide open.

I don't know if that is specifically how they're asking him to play or if it's just in his nature to assume a complimentary role. My sense is that it's more of the latter since he was a low usage player (comparatively speaking) in college and even back to high school.

There has been basically zero meaningful on ball reps out of him in the entire season and the dude has played almost 1000 minutes.

To assume he could even possibly be the starting point guard for this team as early as next season just feels insane to me.

Every minute Black plays is another minute where Franz and Paolo are the defacto point guards.

Now if the argument is "good, that's ultimately what we want" then so be it. But if all you want out of your point guard is a catch-and-shoot guy offensively who defends at a high level, then go out and get an actual elite shooter, ya know?