Like Magic we have Cap Space for summer of 2012

[Darth Magic]

We will not be getting Paul or Deron let that pipe dream go, also Devos and/or Otis will not be using the amnesty to get rid Arenas, 66mil is just to much to say goodbye for nothing.

With that being said we will be lucky if they use it on Hedo but I still see that as not happening because I dont see Otis admitting his mistakes which in turn will still do nothing as far as cap space so there really is nothing to gain seeing as the next 2 seasons will still be under the old Lux tax terms. Our best bet is to hope Arenas plays somewhat close to an allstar level, where we can then maybe move Jameer and bass/anderson for a decent 3 or back up C. Other that that we dont have a ton of options. Sorry but Otis has completely screwed this team for the forseeable future.

Me thinks there is too much pessimism on the board already, but i see your point and counter by saying this: If you were Devos, who is the 3rd richest owner in the league, and i said to you "You can pay Gilbert Arenas 66 million to "go away" and go forward with a combination of Chris Paul/Deron Williams and Dwight Howard and be perennial contenders for the better part of the next decade, get more national TV appearances, and pack the Amway Center every night or not pay him 66 million to "go away" and have neither, no packed Amway center and become a "rebuilding" team which would you choose? I know what i'd choose.

Pessimism is easy, faith is hard. I have shown you how we CAN do it. If you choose to believe it is impossible then so be it. but in my eyes it's not only very possible, but highly probable.

[Darth Magic]

Its embarassing how many times some of us have to repeat JJ is ungarantueed , that Jameer/Bass have PO's, and the Magic can, through a simple process of cutting, outright sign CP3/D-Will and Dwight to you Magic fans.
The only thing true is the media slant but thats not a big problem because they are not the CBA. The Magic can and should be making their own headlines atleast, for whatever its worth, because in the end one of those star PGs is going to say yeah, adding myself to a perennial playoff contender and D12 is the way to go.

Very well said. In addition, if CP3 says he will only accept a trade to Orlando or New York, which team has the better trade assets? Outside of Landry Fields the Knicks have nothing of relevance to trade. Jameer, Bass, Ryan, JJ are light years ahead of anything the Knicks can offer. Plus we still have our TPE so we can take back an extra contract.

[dsg2021]

We will not be getting Paul or Deron let that pipe dream go, also Devos and/or Otis will not be using the amnesty to get rid Arenas, 66mil is just to much to say goodbye for nothing.

With that being said we will be lucky if they use it on Hedo but I still see that as not happening because I dont see Otis admitting his mistakes which in turn will still do nothing as far as cap space so there really is nothing to gain seeing as the next 2 seasons will still be under the old Lux tax terms. Our best bet is to hope Arenas plays somewhat close to an allstar level, where we can then maybe move Jameer and bass/anderson for a decent 3 or back up C. Other that that we dont have a ton of options. Sorry but Otis has completely screwed this team for the forseeable future.

Me thinks there is too much pessimism on the board already, but i see your point and counter by saying this: If you were Devos, who is the 3rd richest owner in the league, and i said to you "You can pay Gilbert Arenas 66 million to "go away" and go forward with a combination of Chris Paul/Deron Williams and Dwight Howard and be perennial contenders for the better part of the next decade, get more national TV appearances, and pack the Amway Center every night or not pay him 66 million to "go away" and have neither, no packed Amway center and become a "rebuilding" team which would you choose? I know what i'd choose.

Pessimism is easy, faith is hard. I have shown you how we CAN do it. If you choose to believe it is impossible then so be it. but in my eyes it's not only very possible, but highly probable.

Can we all realize how amazing and obviously "big market-ish" that team would be? The possibility is screaming in Otis/Devos faces. CP3 or D-Will with Dwight in a Magic team rivaling the Heat and league. Its 2 stars but at the most critical positions ever, the DPOY center and 2 of the top assist PG's. That's two players who utterly break down the opposing team without exceptions, and work more in unison together than some 2 great wing players and some typical jump shooter/versatile 4 trying to share the ball all together. D12 wants help, lets do this for him, put the onus on him to walk away from us instead of entertaining S/Ts, and to re-commit in FA and get himself a star PG in Orlando instead.

It won't be super simple, there's like cap holds to factor in and why decline Ryan when we can try to trade Bass or Jameer with Duhon or Q for cap space and even picks for future building around 2 stars. We still need to build a good team around. But this will be a title team with 2 stars in PG/C.

[frog]

I started to break this down in another topic before I saw this. My numbers are slightly different since you have to assume cap holds for empty roster spots. Below is what I wrote (sorry since some is repetitive).

We're in about the same boat as the knicks when it comes to what we could offer CP3 as a free agent next season. That is assuming player options on nelson and bass are declined, we amnesty arenas, team option on orton is declined, we don't extend the QO to anderson, and we opt out of JJ's final year. It's a lot, but if he wants to come here, it can be done. I think Bass will almost certainly opt out, while Jameer is less certain, but still likely. In this situation, Only Hedo, Qrich and Duhon are on the books for 2012-2013. Add in the assumption Dwight stays and his $20M, along with the cap holds for the league min on the rest of the roster (and a few mil for draft picks) and you're at about $45M. Applying the same math to the Knicks (only melo and amare on roster) and it adds up to about $45M.

So we could offer about the same. BUT, if Dwight wants it to happen too, he could re-sign for a few million less to have the same salary as Paul (a la the Heat last year), giving Paul the starting salary he would get in New Orleans (~$17M) anyway (albeit for one less year), and Dwight the PG he always wanted.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /magic.jsp

If anyone wants to check all that math, feel free.

[darthcheech2000]

this whole thread has made me happy.

I BELIEVE!

[Jamaicankid21]

If we could get rid of Duhon and Q too.. I mean somebody would want Q, we need to bring back Clark. Duhon would be a tough cookie but when injuries start piling up who wouldn't want Duhon? (I wouldn't)

Couldn't Dwight also sign a back-loaded contract and give us more room to operate as well??

[Darth Magic]

I started to break this down in another topic before I saw this. My numbers are slightly different since you have to assume cap holds for empty roster spots. Below is what I wrote (sorry since some is repetitive).

We're in about the same boat as the knicks when it comes to what we could offer CP3 as a free agent next season. That is assuming player options on nelson and bass are declined, we amnesty arenas, team option on orton is declined, we don't extend the QO to anderson, and we opt out of JJ's final year. It's a lot, but if he wants to come here, it can be done. I think Bass will almost certainly opt out, while Jameer is less certain, but still likely. In this situation, Only Hedo, Qrich and Duhon are on the books for 2012-2013. Add in the assumption Dwight stays and his $20M, along with the cap holds for the league min on the rest of the roster (and a few mil for draft picks) and you're at about $45M. Applying the same math to the Knicks (only melo and amare on roster) and it adds up to about $45M.

So we could offer about the same. BUT, if Dwight wants it to happen too, he could re-sign for a few million less to have the same salary as Paul (a la the Heat last year), giving Paul the starting salary he would get in New Orleans (~$17M) anyway (albeit for one less year), and Dwight the PG he always wanted.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /magic.jsp

If anyone wants to check all that math, feel free.

Thank you Frog. You said it far better than i ever could. Hope springs eternal.

[Darth Magic]

If we could get rid of Duhon and Q too.. I mean somebody would want Q, we need to bring back Clark. Duhon would be a tough cookie but when injuries start piling up who wouldn't want Duhon? (I wouldn't)

Couldn't Dwight also sign a back-loaded contract and give us more room to operate as well??

From one Jamaican Kid to another, he certainly could. We have options, don't let anyone else tell you different.

[Jamaicankid21]

If we could get rid of Duhon and Q too.. I mean somebody would want Q, we need to bring back Clark. Duhon would be a tough cookie but when injuries start piling up who wouldn't want Duhon? (I wouldn't)

Couldn't Dwight also sign a back-loaded contract and give us more room to operate as well??

From one Jamaican Kid to another, he certainly could. We have options, don't let anyone else tell you different.

Then if Dwight could sign a back-loaded contract another option would be to get rid of Duhon and Q.

I believe Hedo will be a trade asset this season.

Trade Hedo to a team that is borderline playoff bound with an expiring contract and thinks he could help push them over the top, as the season progresses.. Do all the above stuff that everybody else said, and heck we could probably even keep Redick, because Hedo would be 11 million off the books, Bass 4, Q 2.5, Duhon 3.5.

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

great breakdown of this. hope Otis have a plan under his sleeve silimar to this.

[dsg2021]

I started to break this down in another topic before I saw this. My numbers are slightly different since you have to assume cap holds for empty roster spots. Below is what I wrote (sorry since some is repetitive).

We're in about the same boat as the knicks when it comes to what we could offer CP3 as a free agent next season. That is assuming player options on nelson and bass are declined, we amnesty arenas, team option on orton is declined, we don't extend the QO to anderson, and we opt out of JJ's final year. It's a lot, but if he wants to come here, it can be done. I think Bass will almost certainly opt out, while Jameer is less certain, but still likely. In this situation, Only Hedo, Qrich and Duhon are on the books for 2012-2013. Add in the assumption Dwight stays and his $20M, along with the cap holds for the league min on the rest of the roster (and a few mil for draft picks) and you're at about $45M. Applying the same math to the Knicks (only melo and amare on roster) and it adds up to about $45M.

So we could offer about the same. BUT, if Dwight wants it to happen too, he could re-sign for a few million less to have the same salary as Paul (a la the Heat last year), giving Paul the starting salary he would get in New Orleans (~$17M) anyway (albeit for one less year), and Dwight the PG he always wanted.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /magic.jsp

If anyone wants to check all that math, feel free.

This would be the "absolute" plan of action in the fundamental shift in strategy for the Magic FO and the Orlando/league media, in the meaning that this is 95%-100% all able to be done from the Magic's end without choice for any other team or player.

The only variable above is what to expect of Bass/Jameer POs but you're opinions echo mine, they will decline/re-extend on new deals with lower 1st years.

There should be nothing that can dispute with the facts of the above although it should be welcomed to ensure its accuracy. Your strategy seems the most accurate because of your included representations of cap holds. (I would like you to explain why we have cap holds on old players still tho, I know some of them are Magic-optioned to keep/drop but Im worried there is some bigger player cap holds you did not factor in, altho, NY does not have a single cap hold above min. player according to you and a ESPN/Hollinger article either which is either planned by NY or proven easy to attain during 1 season.)

I'm curious if you decided NY had 45mil in cap total on your own or not. If you found it on your own without this ESPN article by Hollinger (who notes NY has 44.5mil with min. player capholds and is almost exactly the same as your finding) than that would mean you have quite accurately depicted the Magic's cap total in your "absolute" strategy.

I understand with the lack of consensus from Magic fans on these boards because of emotions, that you may have opted with such an absolute plan to get to the 15-17mil/16-20 for CP3/D-Will/Dwight. But the truth is, if Otis carries a sure direction toward this, he will have some expert competence to for sure get Arenas restructured instead and use the amnesty on Hedo instead, and regardless if he has to amnesty Arenas/keep Turk, he can to then still trade off one or both of Duhon or Q's garantueed contracts maybe even getting returning picks from trades to get the best kind of cheap players to fill the roster with 2 stars (using Bass, Ryan, JJ, rookies, cash as baits). The roster in the end would still keep 1-2 of Jameer/Bass/Ryan/Arenas as well as potentially Clark, Orton, Harper, Liggins and then somehow retain some space&MLE for FAs or some old Magic players like JJ/Bass/Ryan who'd want to return to Orlando anyway from FA status. Again, this is just adding more variables to try and further improve the team around 2 stars, but the end product with or without these variables is enough cap space to get 1 of 2 star PGs and Dwight to realize what they can do on the Orlando Magic together. This new strategy is something the Magic FO should be formulating with detail and publicly discussing with the media very soon, IMO, because these stars CP3/D-Will/Dwight need to know in their thoughts that the Magic are an option together during the whole season as the Magic continue another great season and playoffs.

[dsg2021]

If we could get rid of Duhon and Q too.. I mean somebody would want Q, we need to bring back Clark. Duhon would be a tough cookie but when injuries start piling up who wouldn't want Duhon? (I wouldn't)

Couldn't Dwight also sign a back-loaded contract and give us more room to operate as well??

I think one of the potential variables is for Dwight to renounce his contract/resign to a max contract without the full extension bonuses. This would give CP3/D-Will more room in their contracts and potentially even the Magic roster too. This is word for word what the Miami Heat big 3 did and Dwight is seemingly far more self-conscious to help out his fellow star PG and team than like LBJ/Bosh/Wade did.

This scenario also put Orlando at a distinct advantage. Not only is pairing a star PG/C together probably the best possible position pairing of star players but NY's forwards of Carmelo/Amare are already stuck in their contracts. They can't make a new contract to help CP3/D-Will get theirs. CP3/D-Will would be playing with 20mil forwards while they're on 14mil with less raises than them.

[Darth Magic]

This would be the "absolute" plan of action in the fundamental shift in strategy for the Magic FO and the Orlando/league media, in the meaning that this is 95%-100% all able to be done from the Magic's end without choice for any other team or player.

The only variable above is what to expect of Bass/Jameer POs but you're opinions echo mine, they will decline/re-extend on new deals with lower 1st years.

There should be nothing that can dispute with the facts of the above although it should be welcomed to ensure its accuracy. Your strategy seems the most accurate because of your included representations of cap holds. (I would like you to explain why we have cap holds on old players still tho, I know some of them are Magic-optioned to keep/drop but Im worried there is some bigger player cap holds you did not factor in, altho, NY does not have a single cap hold above min. player according to you and a ESPN/Hollinger article either which is either planned by NY or proven easy to attain during 1 season.)

I'm curious if you decided NY had 45mil in cap total on your own or not. If you found it on your own without this ESPN article by Hollinger (who notes NY has 44.5mil with min. player capholds and is almost exactly the same as your finding) than that would mean you have quite accurately depicted the Magic's cap total in your "absolute" strategy.

I understand with the lack of consensus from Magic fans on these boards because of emotions, that you may have opted with such an absolute plan to get to the 15-17mil/16-20 for CP3/D-Will/Dwight. But the truth is, if Otis carries a sure direction toward this, he will have some competence to for sure get Arenas restructured instead and use the amnesty on Hedo instead, and regardless if he has to amnesty Arenas/keep Turk, he can to then still trade off one or both of Duhon or Q's garantueed contracts maybe even getting returning picks from trades to get the best kind of cheap players to fill the roster with 2 stars (using Bass, Ryan, JJ, rookies, cash as baits). The roster in the end would still keep 1-2 of Jameer/Bass/Ryan/Arenas as well as potentially Clark, Orton, Harper, Liggins and then somehow retain some space&MLE for FAs or some old Magic players like JJ/Bass/Ryan who'd want to return to Orlando anyway from FA status. Again, this is just adding more variables to try and further improve the team around 2 stars, but the end product with or without these variables is enough cap space to get 1 of 2 star PGs and Dwight to realize what they can do on the Orlando Magic together. This new strategy is something the Magic FO should be formulating with detail and publicly discussing with the media very soon, IMO, because these stars CP3/D-Will/Dwight need to know in their thoughts that the Magic are an option together during the whole season as the Magic continue another great season and playoffs.

Your post once again affirms the fact that we have options. I doubt Otis plays his hand to the media cause he's a very secretive guy.

[kasedafk_1]

Great thread but ain't no guarantees Dwight stays and dwill or cp3 joins.management needs to go to Dwight to see what his true intentions are.

[Darth Magic]

Great thread but ain't no guarantees Dwight stays and dwill or cp3 joins.management needs to go to Dwight to see what his true intentions are.

True, there are no guarantees. We can only give ourselves a chance, and this is that chance. If after that Dwight still leaves, then we did our best. nothing to be ashamed of.

[SubyWill]

Let's see what Otis does, I however have no faith in him and I hope he gets fired.

[Def Swami]

Optimism? Hope?

[recko321]

its reassuring to know that we do have some options at least. i think what pisses us all off most is the fact that the media wont acknowledge that fact.

[ezzzp]

Dwight will opt out for sure; and when he does he puts a 150% cap hold ($30M) on the Magic cap.

• If he wants to stay with the Magic, he obviously would want to help improve the Magic roster and thus has to opt out to give Magic best possible options. If he wants to leave then he has to opt out to become a free agent.

What is very likely is that Arenas would restructure for the equivalent of the stretch provision, so next summer Arenas could restructure something like this (without leaving any money on the table): 8 / 8.25 / 8.5 / 8.75 / 9 = 5yr / $43m

• This would allow the Magic to use Amnesty clause on Hedo’s $12M (2012-13 salary)

• Those two maneuvers would give the Magic a payroll of aprox. $54M (not counting any new contracts which are inevitable to fill the 2-3 roster spots). When Dwight opts out, his contract cap hold will raise the payroll to aprox. $64M (not counting any new contracts)

• To get DWill or CP3 the Magic have to have room below the cap for a max salary plus Dwight's 150% ($30M) cap hold. The max salary last year was aprox. $16M – that means that - on top of using the amnesty provision and restructuring Arenas - prior to the summer of 2012, the Magic must figure out a way to clear away at least $22M (+ any new contracts). In other words trade away Nelson, Bass, Q, Duhon for ZERO salary in return and not pick up or trade away JJ’s last year option.

This would of course leave the Magic with a bare bones roster (like Miami) to fill with minimum contracts and a $3M MLE:

CP3 or DWill / Arenas
?? / Liggins / Arenas
?? / Harper
Anderson / Harper
Howard / ??

No matter what the Magic are going to have to start from scratch with or without Dwight. It is very unlikely the current roster can win a trophy so you might as well begin the rebuild process before the trade deadline and gut the roster (with the exception of Anderson) for draft picks and cap space.

In my opinion this looks like a brighter future. If Howard and DWill/CP3 sign – you have a great core, if they don’t you have enormous cap space and whatever draft picks acquired to begin to rebuild right away.

[recko321]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=dyea2tb

could we start with something like this?